Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

you can't be on two different networks, you either migrate over to 3.1 and your modem connects as such or you stay on 3.0. You can't use 3.1 for downloads and 3.0 for uploads, it doesn't work like that.

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

I...don't think that's actually true, Max. I believe upstream and downstream can be negotiated independently. I did some googling and found this support ticket from someone seeing exactly this - 3.1 downstream but 3.0 upstream: https://forums.businesshelp.comcast....eam/td-p/34069

Of course that's a fault, but all the same it's technically possible.

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

Fascinating, i would love to understand how that works. I was under the impression the modem established one connection using a set specification and it communicates using that. I didnt realise the upsteam and downstream could work independently. I can remember Igni saying saying 3.1 wont use channels as we currently understand them so if that is the case we are talking about the modem making two seperate connections. I need to do some reading.

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

From my understanding (And this all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt), the modem has to "negotiate" with the CMTS a whole bunch of things. Part of this negotiation is establishing a downstream connection first, then the upload. For each of those, the modem has to negotiate things like what's the latest version of DOCSIS supported, what channels to use, symbol rate, QAM, all that good stuff.

Some of it's dependant on what both ends support, some is dependant on the quality of the line and some is simply configuration.

Igni is right about how DOCSIS3.1 does channels very differently. On 3.0 today, we have chunky channels that are like 8mhz each and bonded together. But I believe those channels aren't exactly right next to each other in the spectrum, you have to leave a "gap" or they could interfere.

On the other side, 3.1 has loads of smaller "Sub-channels" (25-50khz) that means you can make much more efficient use of the spectrum, because you can pack them in quite tightly:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/09/2.png

Another bonus to this is they can increase the QAM rate, from 256 today to at least 4096. That's a fancy way of saying you get 50% more bits in the same frequency amount - on top of the gains of more efficient spectrum usage. However with higher QAM, you need less interference on the line. The improvements to 3.1 should mean it's better overall but I guess if you've got noise, you could drop down below 4096 and maybe even end up on 3.0 channels.

There's other improvements as well, like how error correction is handled and how the system can cope with bad lines. All in all, it's about making more efficient use of what's currently there.

We don't get the full 3.1 benefit overnight, though. You can't use the same frequencies for 3.1 OFDM channels as the older 3.0 channels, so they have to live side-by-side for a while:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/09/3.png

Until eventually you get this:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/09/4.png

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

nice, once the initial rollout is complete hopefully they'll have a plan in place to make shub swap outs mandatory on all tech visits over the next couple of years so everyone can be migrated over to 3.1. It makes you wonder though, if 3.1 has so many benefits and it is the upload which VM have always struggled with, why aren't they moving over to 3.1 for upload first and leaving the downstream till later? They are miles ahead of other isps on downstream speed and it is the upstream which needs to catch up.

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

I remember him saying that too. He also said 3.1 would be for downstream but VM will still use 3.0 for upstream

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

I dont remember reading that

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

Sources told me tonight that "VM testing 1gbs Broadband also a new router and TV Box."

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

One can perhaps assume there'll be new pricing deals and new hardware after the 1st October (the date when existing customers need to have cancelled/renegotiated existing contracts) :)

That's normally what happens, in any case!

Tom

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

Southampton is slated to be the first to get DOCSIS 3.1 with a new Hub 4.0 router delivering 1Gbps download but apparently only 50Mbps upload.

I don't know anything about a new TV box except that the Horizon 4 UI is expected to replace TiVo on the V6.

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

Could the new tv box be Horizon I wonder?

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

Any whispers on pricing for these gigabit packages? Can't imagine it'll be cheap since VM don't really have much competition on it other than places where Hyperoptic etc are

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

It might not be as expensive as you think. It will get very confusing if there are a gazillion tiers and you might find they realign them to 100 (S), 300 (M), 500 (L) and 1gbit (XL) for example.

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

The 1Gbps download comes with I believe 50Mbps upload. Now the M500 is 516/36, so who will choose 1Gbps over M500 when the upload speed difference is so small? I think the price difference will need to be small for it to be worthwhile.

Re: VM Upload Speed Increases
 

The people that want the download speed more and don't mind paying a premium will chose it, with a mine is bigger than yours mentality regardless as to whether they need it.