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-   -   Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised' (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33703838)

Hugh 10-10-2018 22:00
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35966057)
You dont think that someone running a business has the right to decide if they want to refuse a customer ? I hope you are joking. :erm:
Depends...

If they had said "i'm not serving your because you are black/gay/muslim/female (put in protected characteristic)", yes, then they should have been prosecuted, as that would have been blatant discrimination.

Pierre 10-10-2018 23:18
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35966061)
Depends...

If they had said "i'm not serving your because you are black/gay/muslim/female (put in protected characteristic)", yes, then they should have been prosecuted, as that would have been blatant discrimination.
They didn’t what’s your point?

1andrew1 10-10-2018 23:38
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35966064)
They didn’t what’s your point?
Hugh's point is that people running a business don't have the right to not serve people if the grounds they cite are protected characteristics. Hught was arguing against a general post from Paul who suggested that business owners have the right not to serve someone, not the specifics of this particular case.

Gavin78 11-10-2018 01:07
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Maybe someone has mentioned this already in the thread but what is the difference with this compared to shops selling halal meat or not or some shops in certain areas not sell pork products due to religion in the area?

Seems a bit one sided to me

OLD BOY 11-10-2018 07:18
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35966052)
OK, so on points of principle, were the theatre venues who cancelled Dwarf Wrestling events wrong to do so? What about venues that cancelled Roy ‘chubby’ Brown because they decided his humour didn’t accord with their values?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-45485344

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/l...n-gig-12431123
Yes. Wrong on both counts. Give customers what they want, within the law.

Sephiroth 11-10-2018 07:25
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35966049)
My view is simply that they are running a business, and to refuse their customers on 'a point of principle', whether religious or otherwise, is unacceptable.

I have no sympathy for the owners of the business, but I am also completely fed up with political correctness, so I have mixed feelings about this.
The customer offers to buy a cake and provides a specification. The supplier doe not accept the offer on a basis other than that caught by hate crime/similar legislation. In these circumstances, the law of contract applies and the business is within its right to refuse the customer's offer.

Does that help ease your internal conflict?

OLD BOY 11-10-2018 07:41
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35966075)
The customer offers to buy a cake and provides a specification. The supplier doe not accept the offer on a basis other than that caught by hate crime/similar legislation. In these circumstances, the law of contract applies and the business is within its right to refuse the customer's offer.

Does that help ease your internal conflict?
Or, put another way, the seller offers to provide a service, such as making cakes to order, which the customer accepts.

If a supermarket offers goods for sale at a reduced price by mistake, it is bound to sell it to the customer for the advertised price nonetheless.

Mr K 11-10-2018 07:55
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Depends what type of cake it is. Love a fruit cake, not so keen on sponge. The icing/decoration is irrelevant.

Maggy 11-10-2018 08:36
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Well seems to me it's a poor business practice to turn away customers for irrational or religious reasons..plus it could lead to losing future potential customers.

Angua 11-10-2018 08:51
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35966081)
Well seems to me it's a poor business practice to turn away customers for irrational or religious reasons..plus it could lead to losing future potential customers.
If they tried this in London they would soon be out of business, sadly in NI sectarianism and prejudice are still far too prevalent, so they will gain business simply because they claim they are 'christian'.

Sad how various religious writings are used to shore up and excuse prejudice.

denphone 11-10-2018 09:02
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35966081)
Well seems to me it's a poor business practice to turn away customers for irrational or religious reasons..plus it could lead to losing future potential customers.
l could not agree more.

Stuart 11-10-2018 10:28
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35966077)
If a supermarket offers goods for sale at a reduced price by mistake, it is bound to sell it to the customer for the advertised price nonetheless.
I believe they can still refuse to sell it, but if they choose to sell it, it has to be at the reduced price.

Maybe it's different in person, but I know a few years ago, Tesco advertised some items online for a fraction of what they actually cost and rather than take the losses, they cancelled the orders.

Mythica 11-10-2018 12:49
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35966077)
Or, put another way, the seller offers to provide a service, such as making cakes to order, which the customer accepts.

If a supermarket offers goods for sale at a reduced price by mistake, it is bound to sell it to the customer for the advertised price nonetheless.



Not true. They can refuse to sell at the mistaken price.

1701-e 11-10-2018 13:17
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35966082)
If they tried this in London they would soon be out of business, sadly in NI sectarianism and prejudice are still far too prevalent, so they will gain business simply because they claim they are 'christian'.

Sad how various religious writings are used to shore up and excuse prejudice.
Bang on!

Another point is that the order for the cake was accepted by the employee on the floor.

It was only when the bosses saw it that they refused.

noel43 11-10-2018 16:30
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35966049)
My view is simply that they are running a business, and to refuse their customers on 'a point of principle', whether religious or otherwise, is unacceptable.

I have no sympathy for the owners of the business, but I am also completely fed up with political correctness, so I have mixed feelings about this.
Its his business he should be able to sell to who he wants to.


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