Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

We went into Afghanistan before Iraq-2. And I doubt he was referring a Desert Storm, as I'm sure shots were fired then?

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

Surely this is an "Act of War" from Russia

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

Yes. And Afghanistan and Iraq2 were acts of war by America and ourselves. We set the example Russia is now following and TBH Russia's pretext for kicking off in the Crimea is rather better for ours when it came to bombing Iraq back to the stone age.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

You do have a valid point there Chris.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

I agree,

My post was more of refuting the claim , that somehow we were promised to go in and out of Afghanistan without firing a shot. Which was total nonsense.

That aside, on this issue, best we stay out of it. although the Ukraine is an independent nation. The legacy ties with Russia especially in the Crimea, make this a " watch and see" more than a " get involved" situation.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

I can't see Dave staying out of it. he likes attention too much.
it'll be another thing to put down on his CV to him.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

I can we have no army left. We could not defend this country against a bunch of drunken boy scouts never mind the Russian bear. If it kicks off other countries would send in a sizeable force we might be able to muster maybe a few tanks and a few jackels.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

And who's fault is that. that we have no army left?

he can always say I'm going to send our unpaid volunteers over. when he addresses the world.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

Providing it's at the weekend

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

So that would be the S.A.S

Saturdays And Sundays :)

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

The point is that we were led into all those conflicts by a Govt. which deliberately overstated the threats (e.g. WMDs) and understated the long term risks of what we were embarking on for reasons best known to themselves. I Never claimed that whatever Reid said was a promise, how could it be, but it was just another example of our politicians understating the reality in order to overcome opposition at the time. Given what has since happened in Afghanistan and Iraq, I hope we've learned some lessons from that.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-...stock-markets/

Also according to an article in The Times today Europe isn't as dependent on Russian Oil as it was in 2008. Economic sanctions from Europe and the US could wreck Russia's economy.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

And how would Putin react to that? The Russian psyche seems to be that they can endure whatever suffering is meted out but will always come back with more. Quite probably a legacy of WWII and other major historical events. Whether it's true or not, the EU being presented as trying to destroy Russia's economy in order to stir up sentiment there is the last thing we want I'd have thought. Is Putin a very clever chess player or irrational? A bit of both maybe? Great caution is required here because in circumstances such as these, one error of judgement could set off a tinderbox.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

The question is how much dissent can he tolerate in his own country? A collapsing economy as he tries to recreate the Soviet Union might be too much for even Putin to cope with.

Re: Ukraine on the verge of civil war!
 

Or how effectively can he blame western forces of evil for any/all damage to his economy and in so doing stir up nationalistic support. Whatever the real reason for it, Russia descending into chaos would be a very big problem for all of us. I can't see Putin going anywhere soon - quietly or easily. He's becoming a very dangerous caricature of himself.