Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You sound like you're preaching again, Chris :)

Why should anyone have to be jealous of someone's wealth in this 'argument' I don't know.
who started that one?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You did, by making IDS's wealth and privilege a topic of discussion instead of the benefit changes.

IDS's house, his car and his wife make no difference at all to the government's benefits policy. The policy is either right or wrong on its own terms.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That was in reply to someone saying that he worked hard for his money.
I merely asked if it's true that he married into wealth. which contradicts the working hard for the wealth.

I know. but in order to discount the opposition. the term 'jealousy' is being used.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That's because some posters are making an issue out of other people being rich and privileged, instead of discussing whether the benefits reforms are correct in the context of the economic situation and the stated policy aim of making it more worthwhile for those that can work, to work. Arthur and Mertle are good examples of two posters who have made an issue out of the rich, although IMO Mertle does it rather more intelligently. He makes an argument for a socialist approach to wealth redistribution, which is well made even though I believe his premise is fundamentally flawed.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Err NO ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Please do not consider you know what goes on in my head and speak for that its very rude.

Seriously mate we discuss these issues as I said before I have courage of conviction and stand by and fight for my point of view. It is no different to what you marty or any other members do. Why do you feel the need to single me out and make out like its only me that stubborn? most of us in these threads are just a stubborn so I would appreciate it if you and others were to stop singling me out acting likes its only me ok??

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

see singling Arthur out here saying his post lacks intelligence this is very rude and a lot of members do the same and I get singled out for standing my ground while Arthur is ripped to shreds on a regular basis crazy I am not the only one with a bad attitude here

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Who's singling you out? I happen to be responding directly to you at this point, I've responded to directly to others at other points. And I will continue to do so. I have a conviction to stand by, just as you do.

I consider I know what goes on in your head only to the extent that you share your thoughts in this thread, and others like it. I have seen you arguing that people who don't share your experience can't speak to it as well as you can. I have seen you observing that you think others are trying to discredit or attack you when all I can see is people addressing social situations that you happen to personally identify with.

A national welfare policy is a blunt instrument. We can only discuss the rights and the wrongs of it in blunt fashion. There will always be personal stories of hardship and a sense of injustice in this area. A policy designed to address the needs of millions is always going to have anomalies that disadvantage some. However I do not see anywhere in this thread, any discussion about the technicalities and what might need to be done in order to address injustices and anomalies. The thread so far has been very high level, discussing the overall right or wrong of the benefit reforms. As such, I can see no justification at all for you feeling like your position is being personally attacked. I might just as well be accused of attacking myself, seeing as I am currently and by some distance a net beneficiary of the system rather than a net contributor - a fact you have previously dismissed as less relevant than your own experience as I'm not actually on the 'bread line'. But there we go round in circles again.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Just seen a piece on the news where Osbourne goes to of all places 'where people are working' to discuss what's happening to those who are not working?

they mention that they'll be £300 a year better off.
I assume that £300 is a fortune?

so what is around £900 a year loss then? that some of the non workers are losing??!!

it's a triple fortune!

madness.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Try reading it again without the red misty goggles.

Saying that one person's comments are offered more intelligently is not the same thing as saying the other person's comments lack intelligence. Not the same thing at all. One is a relative statement and the other is an absolute.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

No, it's not madness, but the fact that you can't see the point he was making is very telling.

The benefit reforms are supposed to make it more worthwhile to work than not to work. They are also meant to address the injustice felt by many low-paid, hard-working people that they have friends and neighbours who are better off on benefits and not working at all.

Taking the government's message about welfare reform and sharing it in front of an audience of workers who will be happy to hear it is simply good politics.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

but its how you try to score points by belittling my point of view Chris you do it all the time. You do not respond just to my point you then go onto to say things about how I am thinking or my motives when seriously you do not have a clue about me

Chris it appears to me that you are only interested in your own opinion and no one elses matters === things like this you recognise eh?
You seem to think you past knowledge on a subject that has changed is as relevant as upto date experience === see I can do it to if you want to play that game

You and marty argue the same point only yours seems a little more intelligent ===== hows about that one then...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If I say it's madness, then it's madness.
you're just of the opinion that it's not :)

So why didn't he go and do his PR stunt in a jobcentre?
tell them that there's jobs out there. forget that not so long ago there wasn't, because now there's jobs galore for everyone.

I agree. it makes the divide even stronger.

we're going to be sorry.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

no red here mate as I explained yesterday none of this winds me up its just a game mate and I love it. Not been missed though that you try to discredit me making out I am angry again how could you possibly know????

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Because it's a tough message to be told you're getting less money so delivering it in a job centre would not result in good pictures for the news. Osborne has chosen a sympathetic audience, and why shouldn't he? Speeches, walkabouts and hand-shaking are political events.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35555823) I agree. it makes the divide even stronger. we're going to be sorry.

No, we really aren't. The benefit reforms are polling extremely well for the Tories.

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

I observe that you seem angry. You say you're not. It's just another aspect of the discussion. :shrug:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

propaganda and spin I for one will not fall for it

all you can see is my type your observation is flawed not an aspect of the discussion at all but its your prejudice towards me just standing by my beliefs just like you :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

... which would be a comment on what you believe my motives are, rather than a contribution to the thread.

Which, as it happens, I think is a relevant consideration, which is why I don't think twice about observing other posters' apparent motivations and moods when I post.

I think envy and hatred have played a major part in some people's contributions to this discussion. IDS has been pilloried not for making a supposedly incoherent argument on welfare but for being rich.