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-   -   Migrant workers help UK economy (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33616193)

Xaccers 22-06-2007 08:49
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34333630)
The reason asylum seekers are part of my arguments is simply because the 2 things are linked, if you have an open immigration policy then quite simply there will be more asylum seekers the two things come hand in hand so asylum seekers costs should be counted as part of costs associated with immigration.

Immigrants from countries such as australia and american I would expect to have lower costs as there shouldnt be so much of a language and culture barrier but they of course all add to the overcrowding problems we have in this country.
We don't have an open immigration policy, and we have a reduction in asylum applications (simply because the conflicts around the world causing asylum seekers have been resolved in many cases).
Asylum seekers' only option is benefits.
Most immigrants don't have that option, they can only work for a living.
My gf, South African, can't get JSA, can't get housing benefit, can't get hospital treatment on the NHS other than A&E.
If she were pregnant, we'd have to pay up to £9K to have our baby born in a hospital.
Yet you're unable to differentiate between that and an asylum seeker?
Come off it! It's not hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysalis
Regarding the native stuff I knew it would be questioned but hard to word what I am on about. Its not merely about religion but more to do with language and culture barriers.
Like an Englishman moving to Wales and not being able to speak the language?
Or someone from the deep west country not being understood in London? How are your bunty chompers?
Or the cultural barrier between northeners and southerners?

TheDaddy 22-06-2007 08:54
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34333640)
Like an Englishman moving to Wales and not being able to speak the language?
Or someone from the deep west country not being understood in London? How are your bunty chompers?
Completely unlike that I'd imagine, considering we all share a common language, even if it gets a bit mangled regionally, you can still get the gist of it or speak slowly and clearly and if all else fails, write it down

Xaccers 22-06-2007 09:00
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34333642)
Completely unlike that I'd imagine, considering we all share a common language, even if it gets a bit mangled regionally, you can still get the gist of it or speak slowly and clearly and if all else fails, write it down
:rofl:
Reminds me of the Rory Bremner sketch with Bush Snr, Gorby and Maggie.

Bush: English is my first language, French is my second language, when I'm abroad I can speak English or French
Gorby: Russian is my first language, English is my second language, when I'm abroad I speak English
Maggie: If you speak slow enough and loud enough, they usually understand.

I can't read welsh, well ok, I can, I just don't understand it and I may get ll's and dd's wrong, but I need the added expense of having Welsh translated into English.
To my knowledge, there are no How to learn Welsh classes in my area.
I love the idea that people from the Indian sub continent will have no comprehension of English, normally from the same people who harp on about how great the British Empire was (oh the irony).

TheDaddy 22-06-2007 09:08
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34333649)
:rofl:
Reminds me of the Rory Bremner sketch with Bush Snr, Gorby and Maggie.

Bush: English is my first language, French is my second language, when I'm abroad I can speak English or French
Gorby: Russian is my first language, English is my second language, when I'm abroad I speak English
Maggie: If you speak slow enough and loud enough, they usually understand.

I can't read welsh, well ok, I can, I just don't understand it and I may get ll's and dd's wrong, but I need the added expense of having Welsh translated into English.
To my knowledge, there are no How to learn Welsh classes in my area.
I love the idea that people from the Indian sub continent will have no comprehension of English, normally from the same people who harp on about how great the British Empire was (oh the irony).
Considering most native Welsh people can't speak Welsh, I wouldn't let that bother you

Where do you get the idea that people from India have no comprehension of English, having worked with dozens of them I'd say most speak the language better than I do

Xaccers 22-06-2007 09:11
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34333659)
Considering most native Welsh people can't speak Welsh, I wouldn't let that bother you

Where do you get the idea that people from India have no comprehension of English, having worked with dozens of them I'd say most speak the language better than I do

Oh I know, I know, not met one asian who's not had at least a pretty good grasp of english.
Just try telling that to the "Asians cost a fortune because they can't speak english" people though.
Ok, they may get their b's and v's mixed up, and be hard to make out over a crackly longdistance call (allegedly to Swansea), but they can understand what you're saying, if not why you're saying it.

Chrysalis 22-06-2007 09:35
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34333640)
We don't have an open immigration policy, and we have a reduction in asylum applications (simply because the conflicts around the world causing asylum seekers have been resolved in many cases).
Asylum seekers' only option is benefits.
Most immigrants don't have that option, they can only work for a living.
My gf, South African, can't get JSA, can't get housing benefit, can't get hospital treatment on the NHS other than A&E.
If she were pregnant, we'd have to pay up to £9K to have our baby born in a hospital.
Yet you're unable to differentiate between that and an asylum seeker?
Come off it! It's not hard.



Like an Englishman moving to Wales and not being able to speak the language?
Or someone from the deep west country not being understood in London? How are your bunty chompers?
Or the cultural barrier between northeners and southerners?
Last time I went to wales they had no problem understanding english.

I can differentate but do you not understand that asylum seekers and immigrants are not linked? ie. when you allow more immigrants you also get more asylum seekers.

1 - you said yourself asylum seekers cant work and have to have benefits, this costs money as well as the housing provided.
2 - immigrants are the opposite and are restricted in terms of benefits but do still cost the country money for public services and housing space.

You are arguing with me as if I am saying stop immigration when I am merely saying it needs to be cut down.

Xaccers 22-06-2007 09:59
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34333677)
Last time I went to wales they had no problem understanding english.

I can differentate but do you not understand that asylum seekers and immigrants are not linked? ie. when you allow more immigrants you also get more asylum seekers.

1 - you said yourself asylum seekers cant work and have to have benefits, this costs money as well as the housing provided.
2 - immigrants are the opposite and are restricted in terms of benefits but do still cost the country money for public services and housing space.

You are arguing with me as if I am saying stop immigration when I am merely saying it needs to be cut down.
You appear to be suggesting that a country cannot have a moratorium on immigration without also having one on asylum seekers, is that really what you're suggesting?

By virtue of working, immigrants pay taxes, such as council tax and income tax, and VAT, and duty on items imported which otherwise wouldn't be sold.
Hence why there is a net gain not loss from immigrants.
So yes, they do cost, like you cost, but they pay for their costs, unlike the workshy scrotes in social housing who've never done an honest day's work in their life.

freezin 22-06-2007 10:49
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Xaccers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezin
That a 14 year old's comments led to her being arrested for a "hate crime" is depressing example of the political correctness affecting this country. Even if your preferred version of events is true, shouldn't this have been dealt with by a reasonable teacher or the headmaster alone? Did the school really need to involve the police?

Please clarify: If she had been honest, ie that she was expected to discuss a subject with a group of 5 others, only 1 of whom could speak English, do you think she acted reasonably in asking her teacher if she could change groups?
???
???

Simple enough questions, are they not?

Xaccers 22-06-2007 12:52
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freezin (Post 34333717)
Xaccers



???

Simple enough questions, are they not?
Apparently my answers weren't simple enough for you, go and re-read them, then ask me about the bits you don't understand.

While you're at it, can you explain why you suggested lobbying against racism was a bad thing?

freezin 24-06-2007 12:26
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Xaccers, I understood you perfectly. You didn't actually answer my questions. However reading between the lines of what you did write, I have concluded that your answer to:
"That a 14 year old's comments led to her being arrested for a "hate crime" is depressing example of the political correctness affecting this country. Even if your preferred version of events is true, shouldn't this have been dealt with by a reasonable teacher or the headmaster alone? Did the school really need to involve the police?"
... would have been "yes", and your answer to:
"Please clarify: If she had been honest, ie that she was expected to discuss a subject with a group of 5 others, only 1 of whom could speak English, do you think she acted reasonably in asking her teacher if she could change groups?"
... would have been "no".
Different points of view do make the world a more democratic planet. :)
And nowhere did I suggest that lobbying against racism is a bad thing. Discrimination on the basis of skin colour, race (and in most cases, religion too) is abhorrent.

(The centering was by accident, not design!)

Chrysalis 24-06-2007 13:59
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34333690)
You appear to be suggesting that a country cannot have a moratorium on immigration without also having one on asylum seekers, is that really what you're suggesting?

By virtue of working, immigrants pay taxes, such as council tax and income tax, and VAT, and duty on items imported which otherwise wouldn't be sold.
Hence why there is a net gain not loss from immigrants.
So yes, they do cost, like you cost, but they pay for their costs, unlike the workshy scrotes in social housing who've never done an honest day's work in their life.
1 - Does everyone who claim benefits have never worked in their life?

2 - does every immigrant pay tax?

3 - do asylum seekers pay taxes?

4 - Do you have a hard line one sided viewpoint?

NitroNutter 25-06-2007 09:04
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
LOL @ Xaccers. You carry on living in your own ideal world, the rest of us will inevitably carry on in the real one, the one where justice is never so easy to obtain, never as cut and dried as you appear to believe it to be.

The race card when used in more individual cases is almost undefeatable, it is practically impossible to prove theres any falseness to a claim of individual racial discrimination, in individual cases where racism is claimed the authorites will inevitably drop any reports because the chances of getting caught where the risk of further consequences with more discrimination accusations to the authority itself is just to great.

Ever made an anonymous report ? They dont work, either they can easily work out approximately who made a report if it was followed up, or they simply are not followed up as it was anonymous theres no one to answer to if its not followed up, to put it simply if your not prepared to follow and back up the report with your details the report is not considered a priority report. When you do and it involves those of foriegn descent is where the trouble really begins, espicially when you have very young children.

What I do know is when these asians behave in such a manner like using his gardens as a toilet and knowingly being quite visible about it, it is in actual fact an act of racism, he is being deliberatly provocative, knowing he can and will fall back on a race card, there by claiming sympathy from gullible people such as yourself. Thats all the excuse and available fallback he needs to start, once he has played the race card they can then move onto other offences, like keying your car, having your tyres slashed, loosening your wheel nuts etc, anything sly and devious to provoke tensions further till you have no choice but to upsticks.

Xaccers 25-06-2007 09:15
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freezin (Post 34335334)
Xaccers, I understood you perfectly. You didn't actually answer my questions. However reading between the lines of what you did write, I have concluded that your answer to:"That a 14 year old's comments led to her being arrested for a "hate crime" is depressing example of the political correctness affecting this country. Even if your preferred version of events is true, shouldn't this have been dealt with by a reasonable teacher or the headmaster alone? Did the school really need to involve the police?"... would have been "yes"
Is racism not a hate crime in your book?

---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 34335398)
1 - Does everyone who claim benefits have never worked in their life?
Only workshy ones that I mentioned as an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
2 - does every immigrant pay tax?
Pretty much, but even an idiot can work that one out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
3 - do asylum seekers pay taxes?
Don't you already know they do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
4 - Do you have a hard line one sided viewpoint?
You mean like yours? Goodness no!

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroNutter (Post 34336049)
LOL @ Xaccers. You carry on living in your own ideal world, the rest of us will inevitably carry on in the real one, the one where justice is never so easy to obtain, never as cut and dried as you appear to believe it to be.
And you can carry on moaning and tarring without actually doing something about it, which of course will remove your excuse for moaning and tarring wouldn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroNutter
The race card when used in more individual cases is almost undefeatable, it is practically impossible to prove theres any falseness to a claim of individual racial discrimination, in individual cases where racism is claimed the authorites will inevitably drop any reports because the chances of getting caught where the risk of further consequences with more discrimination accusations to the authority itself is just to great.
"My neighbour is defacating in his front garden"
"You're obviously racist!"

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroNutter
Ever made an anonymous report ? They dont work, either they can easily work out approximately who made a report if it was followed up, or they simply are not followed up as it was anonymous theres no one to answer to if its not followed up, to put it simply if your not prepared to follow and back up the report with your details the report is not considered a priority report. When you do and it involves those of foriegn descent is where the trouble really begins, espicially when you have very young children.
Yes I have, and as a consiquence a certain heroin addict's underage girlfriend was saved from further sexual abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroNutter
What I do know is when these asians behave in such a manner like using his gardens as a toilet and knowingly being quite visible about it, it is in actual fact an act of racism, he is being deliberatly provocative, knowing he can and will fall back on a race card, there by claiming sympathy from gullible people such as yourself. Thats all the excuse and available fallback he needs to start, once he has played the race card they can then move onto other offences, like keying your car, having your tyres slashed, loosening your wheel nuts etc, anything sly and devious to provoke tensions further till you have no choice but to upsticks.
How on earth do you get that defecating in his own front garden is a racist act?
Now if he was defecating on your doorstep maybe.
I suppose at least you're living up to your name.

freezin 25-06-2007 09:50
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34336057)
Is racism not a hate crime in your book?
Racism per se, though abhorrent as I've said, should not be a crime as it is a limitation on the freedom of speech. Are you saying that the girl in the incident we have been discussing is a racist? Even if she did object on the basis of race (and there is no suggestion that she did) I think classing this a race crime, with police involvement and all that that entails, is wrong when a talk with a sensible teacher about her attitude would have been more appropriate.
We are becoming a society where anybody can point a finger at another person to bring them to the attention of the police simply for something they have said!

Xaccers 25-06-2007 10:09
Re: Migrant workers help UK economy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freezin (Post 34336091)


Racism per se, though abhorrent as I've said, should not be a crime as it is a limitation on the freedom of speech. Are you saying that the girl in the incident we have been discussing is a racist? Even if she did object on the basis of race (and there is no suggestion that she did) I think classing this a race crime, with police involvement and all that that entails, is wrong when a talk with a sensible teacher about her attitude would have been more appropriate.


We are becoming a society where anybody can point a finger at another person to bring them to the attention of the police simply for something they have said!
If they've said something racist then yes, take it to the police, if they believe it isn't valid, then fine.
For all we know she actually said "I dun wanna work wiv no paki's who can't even speak english"
You again appear to be falling into the trap of believing we know everything about this case, we weren't there, everything that took place hasn't been reported.
Have you not considered what might have been said to justify reporting the incident to the police? Or do you consider nothing the girl could have said to be worthy of further action?
Have you considered that the LEA's policy is that any racist comments of a serious nature are to be reported to the authorities?
Have you really?


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