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-   -   Reform UK's chronicles (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33713145)

Sephiroth 15-09-2025 13:41
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36202768)
Is that possible? :D
Yeah - think about it!

Carth 15-09-2025 14:13
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
We'd probably be better off with a Govt. like France has :D

Pierre 15-09-2025 17:53
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I think Reform needs to have a few seasoned MPs amongst its ranks. But i wouldn’t want mass defections from the Tories as I don’t want the Tories.

Sephiroth 15-09-2025 18:03
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
We could debate which Tory MPs we want to see defect to Reform UK in order to make the latter more effective. However, it's not an easy call because the front bench shower are, mainly, the shambles that were the last Tory government.

thenry 15-09-2025 18:13
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Pretend (Priti Patel) it's (Iain Duncan Smith) us (Jacob Rees-Mogg). A corrosive seasoned fellow in rust, Rishi Sunak and while at it sodomy, Sadiq Khan.

I can't believe they were in power :no:

Mr K 15-09-2025 18:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Isn't it weird how those out of power are always, popular, those in power are always unpopular?

Rinse and repeat, different parties and pms can't fix broken Britain. The public are fools expecting low taxes, high public spending, no migration, but somebody to do the crap jobs, whilst they don't work, but expect pensions/benefits/ a health service....

Politicians can't fix things, they are only ever interested in power, we all know that. Only the population can fix things. But they seem mostly interested in personalities, scandals, reality tv, and populists telling them what they want to hear.

1andrew1 15-09-2025 19:02
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36202770)
Yeah - think about it!
Good point. Two words. First one Liz. ;)

Sephiroth 15-09-2025 19:12
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36202797)
Good point. Two words. First one Liz. ;)
Not in the Lab-Lib sense because Truss was neither of those.

Pierre 15-09-2025 20:12
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36202793)
Isn't it weird how those out of power are always, popular, those in power are always unpopular?

Rinse and repeat, different parties and pms can't fix broken Britain. The public are fools expecting low taxes, high public spending, no migration, but somebody to do the crap jobs, whilst they don't work, but expect pensions/benefits/ a health service....

Politicians can't fix things, they are only ever interested in power, we all know that. Only the population can fix things. But they seem mostly interested in personalities, scandals, reality tv, and populists telling them what they want to hear.
Labour weren’t “popular” out of power.

Damien 22-09-2025 12:18
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c930xypxpqpo

Quote:
Reform UK has announced it would force all migrants holding permanent settled status in the UK to reapply for visas with tougher rules, if the party wins the next election.

Under the plans, Reform will abolish the right of migrants to apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) - a permanent status which give migrants rights and access to benefits.

Reform will also unveil plans to bar anyone other than British citizens from accessing welfare. Taken together the party claims their plans would save £234bn over several decades, though this figure is contested.
This is more extreme than Trump; in the US, Green Card holders are still protected for the most part.

This isn't new migrants either, it's everyone. Anyone who's not a British citizen but is living here risks being kicked out if they're unsuccessful for a much stricter Visa. This can be former EU citizens who've been here for decades, paid taxes, had families, but just never applied for a passport (£1,700 btw) because why did they never need to do so?

I know someone from Europe who's lived here for 45 years, now retired, married to an English partner and is now receiving a pension after working the vast majority of their adult life here, paying taxes. They will be removed under this policy because they're no longer a skilled worker and they'll certainly get their pension taken away.

How is that fair? How is that what we want this country to be?

1andrew1 22-09-2025 12:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36202798)
Not in the Lab-Lib sense because Truss was neither of those.
A side issue, Liz Truss was president of the Oxford University Liberal Democrats! :D Adhering to the theory tha the older you get, the more right-wing you get!

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203161)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c930xypxpqpo

This is more extreme than Trump; in the US, Green Card holders are still protected for the most part.

This isn't new migrants either, it's everyone. Anyone who's not a British citizen but is living here risks being kicked out if they're unsuccessful for a much stricter Visa. This can be former EU citizens who've been here for decades, paid taxes, had families, but just never applied for a passport (£1,700 btw) because why did they never need to do so?

I know someone from Europe who's lived here for 45 years, now retired, married to an English partner and is now receiving a pension after working the vast majority of their adult life here, paying taxes. They will be removed under this policy because they're no longer a skilled worker and they'll certainly get their pension taken away.

How is that fair? How is that what we want this country to be?
Farage obviously thinks it's a vote-winner. I hope his current partner (French) and the mother of his children (German) have got their papers in order.

papa smurf 22-09-2025 12:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203162)
A side issue, Liz Truss was president of the Oxford University Liberal Democrats! :D Adhering to the theory tha the older you get, the more right-wing you get!

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------


Farage obviously thinks it's a vote-winner. I hope his current partner (French) and the mother of his children (German) have got their papers in order.
Give it a couple of months and it'll be Labours policy too if it looks like a vote winner, and don't forget labour hates pensioners

Sephiroth 22-09-2025 14:03
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203162)
A side issue, Liz Truss was president of the Oxford University Liberal Democrats! :D Adhering to the theory that the older you get, the more right-wing you get!
<SNIP>

The “further to the right you get” would have been what you meant, I’m sure - because “right wing” isn’t something you be more of.

Now that we agree (!) the reason is, applied to unprejudiced people, that you get wiser with age and see things for what they are, especially if/when they threaten your own situation.

However, the older that the Lefties get, assuming they’ve still got nothing to their name, or they are politicians who love Hamas, the more they covet what others have got.

Reform UK cannot address this unless they open a debate and formulate sensible policies to increase wealth for everyone. That means inward investment leading to job creation, including use of our carbon assets.

Nev er going to happen, imo. Too difficult as the UK is in an economic death spiral. The EU isn’t much better off before those fanatics sound off.

Hugh 22-09-2025 14:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
unprejudiced people


I assume your definition of this is "people who agree with you..."?

Sephiroth 22-09-2025 14:12
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36203176)


I assume your definition of this is "people who agree with you..."?
No. I mean people who don’t take a reasonable line in the light of all the facts. “Reasonable” means accepting that there are all sorts of people going about their business entitled not to be deprecated because they’ve got more of something than you, for example.

Where do you fit?

Hugh 22-09-2025 14:19
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203179)
No. I mean people who don’t take a reasonable line in the light of all the facts. “Reasonable” means accepting that there are all sorts of people going about their business entitled not to be deprecated because they’ve got more of something than you, for example.

Where do you fit?
I "fit" in that I am not bothered if someone has more than me, and I don't think badly of them if they have - however, if they are chocolate starfish about having more, and treat others as lesser because they don't have as much as them, or use derogatory stereotypes about those who are different from them (views and/or money), I will deprecate them...

Sephiroth 22-09-2025 14:21
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36203181)
I "fit" in that I am not bothered if someone has more than me, and I don't think badly of them if they have - however, if they are chocolate starfish about having more, and treat others as lesser because they don't have as much as them, or use derogatory stereotypes about those who are different from them (views and/or money), I will deprecate them...
Me too!

Carth 22-09-2025 15:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Some people are content with what they have, and appreciate it.
Some want more than they have even though they can't afford it.
Some have more than enough and go out of their way to show it.

In between are many who have no idea what they want or need, and spend a lifetime going nowhere.

Sephiroth 22-09-2025 16:12
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36203189)
Some people are content with what they have, and appreciate it.
Some want more than they have even though they can't afford it.
Some have more than enough and go out of their way to show it.

In between are many who have no idea what they want or need, and spend a lifetime going nowhere.

Some people are content with what they have, and appreciate it.
Some want more than they have even though they can't afford it.
Some people who can't afford more want to take from those that can.
Some have more than enough and go out of their way to show it.
Some people work for London Transport.

Paul 22-09-2025 17:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203161)
How is that fair? How is that what we want this country to be?
I note this part ;
Quote:
if the party wins the next election.
I dont think thats very likely, atm anyway.

OLD BOY 24-09-2025 09:24
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I'm thinking that perhaps at the next General Election, the contest will be between the Liberal Democrats and Reform UK. Both main parties are thoroughly discredited and I can't see how that will change significantly in 4 years.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 09:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Interesting point. For what my opinion is worth, the LDs are as deprecated by the public as Labour/Tories. However, tactical voting is a reality and frankly, anything can happen.

Still, 4 years is a long way to go.

1andrew1 24-09-2025 09:38
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203320)
Interesting point. For what my opinion is worth, the LDs are as deprecated by the public as Labour/Tories. However, tactical voting is a reality and frankly, anything can happen.

Still, 4 years is a long way to go.
Liberal Democrats are playing a clever game. They've resisted the temptation to go left of labour and instead have come down against some of the government's policies eg VAT on school fees and inheritance tax on farms. All easy to do in opposition, of course.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 09:51
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Reform have made a mistake with their immigration policy. They may have thought it all through, but their public announcements have fallen short of explaining the exceptions that would be allowed. For example, someone who has had ILR for 20 years and has paid their way during that time: will they have to reapply and what would the criteria be?

A major policy announcement of this type should be fully clarified at the time of broadcast - at least in a publication that indicates the law changes that will enable all this, including the deportation or resettlement of ineligible asylum seekers of military ag.

Pierre 24-09-2025 09:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203321)
Liberal Democrats are playing a clever game. They've resisted the temptation to go left of labour and instead have come down against some of the government's policies eg VAT on school fees and inheritance tax on farms. All easy to do in opposition, of course.
The LibDems political strategy is just having Ed Davey fall off a paddle board.

Damien 24-09-2025 09:58
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203325)
Reform have made a mistake with their immigration policy. They may have thought it all through, but their public announcements have fallen short of explaining the exceptions that would be allowed. For example, someone who has had ILR for 20 years and has paid their way during that time: will they have to reapply and what would the criteria be?
Well, this is it. If they're still a skilled worker, they're ok, but if they're retired, their pension is gone and they'll be told to leave!

There are so many people here legally, who've worked all their lives here in some cases, and will be deported.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 10:02
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203330)
Well, this is it. If they're still a skilled worker, they're ok, but if they're retired, their pension is gone and they'll be told to leave!

There are so many people here legally, who've worked all their lives here in some cases, and will be deported.
... and that is what is not clear from Reform's public announcements - at least to my mind.

Damien 24-09-2025 10:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203332)
... and that is what is not clear from Reform's public announcements - at least to my mind.
Farage was asked and said 'If they're not British Citizens, why are we paying them a pension' so....

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 10:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203333)
Farage was asked and said 'If they're not British Citizens, why are we paying them a pension' so....
Yes, I heard him say that and wasn't impressed. If you've paid, you get something in return just like everyone else.

For the time being, Farage may have turned fair-minded citizens away from his fold.

1andrew1 24-09-2025 10:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203334)
Yes, I heard him say that and wasn't impressed. If you've paid, you get something in return just like everyone else.

For the time being, Farage may have turned fair-minded citizens away from his fold.
I wonder if the penny is now dropping for others apart from you? I think a lot of fair-minded citizens now see Reform as the party of envy.

Sephiroth 24-09-2025 11:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203335)
I wonder if the penny is now dropping for others apart from you? I think a lot of fair-minded citizens now see Reform as the party of envy.
It's prolly why I'm still a Conservative member. Farage could well be turning fair-minded citizens away.

A pity, because he's right on most of his economy thoughts. But then the Tories say much the same on the economy and need to convince said fair-minded citizens that they can execute.

1andrew1 24-09-2025 12:51
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Any fair-minded citizens will doubtless be concerned over this:
Quote:
Nigel Farage declines to rule out link between autism and paracetamol use

Reform UK leader’s comments come after Trump warns women to avoid painkiller during pregnancy

Reform UK leader Nigel Farage has refused to distance himself from comments made by US President Donald Trump linking the use of paracetamol by pregnant women to autism in children.

“We were told thalidomide was a safe drug and it wasn’t. Who knows?” Farage told LBC on Wednesday, referring to the sedative that caused birth defects in more than 10,000 people around the world after it was widely prescribed to pregnant women for morning sickness.

Farage, whose party is leading national opinion polls, said he had “no idea” whether paracetamol was linked to autism, adding: “When it comes to science I wouldn’t side with anybody.”

Farage’s refusal to take a clear stance on the contentious — and widely criticised — remarks made by Trump underscore his efforts not to upset his powerful ally in the White House.

Many Reform supporters are also sceptical of pharmaceutical companies, and in particular vaccines. A number of significant party figures cite Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic as the moment they lost faith in the then ruling Conservative party.

Dr Aseem Malhotra, an adviser to US health secretary Robert F Kennedy, suggested at Reform’s party conference this month that Covid jabs were a “significant factor” in the cancer diagnoses of members of the UK royal family.
https://www.ft.com/content/429193b3-...2-9b0a6a6e9ab5

Paul 24-09-2025 12:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
“We were told thalidomide was a safe drug and it wasn’t. Who knows?” Farage told LBC on Wednesday
This alone tells me what a completley uninformed idiot Farage is.
I work in the medical studies sector, I'm well aware of how vastly different it is now compared to the early 1960's.

OLD BOY 25-09-2025 08:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203325)
Reform have made a mistake with their immigration policy. They may have thought it all through, but their public announcements have fallen short of explaining the exceptions that would be allowed. For example, someone who has had ILR for 20 years and has paid their way during that time: will they have to reapply and what would the criteria be?

A major policy announcement of this type should be fully clarified at the time of broadcast - at least in a publication that indicates the law changes that will enable all this, including the deportation or resettlement of ineligible asylum seekers of military ag.
I don't think so, Seph. The final details will be revealed closer to the election. We don't know the details of any policies to be introduced by the other parties yet, so we'll have to be patient. A lot can happen in four years.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203335)
I wonder if the penny is now dropping for others apart from you? I think a lot of fair-minded citizens now see Reform as the party of envy.
Envy over what? Incidentally, I think Farage was talking about not allowing immigrants to draw pensions unless they'd been paying into the scheme. But the devil will be in the detail.

---------- Post added at 08:30 ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203344)
Any fair-minded citizens will doubtless be concerned over this:

https://www.ft.com/content/429193b3-...2-9b0a6a6e9ab5
Why? He's saying he doesn't know. He's not a scientist, and as far as I know, nor are you.

---------- Post added at 08:35 ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36203345)
This alone tells me what a completley uninformed idiot Farage is.
I work in the medical studies sector, I'm well aware of how vastly different it is now compared to the early 1960's.
Actually, while studies don't show a causal link, they have not been conclusive, and I think that's what Trump is alluding to, but he's jumping the gun, I think. He should wait for better evidence before he trots out something like this.

Farage is just saying he doesn't know. That's honest. He's not jumping on any bandwagon and just parroting what he's told to say, which is what we normally expect from leading politicians..

Pierre 25-09-2025 09:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203161)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c930xypxpqpo



This is more extreme than Trump; in the US, Green Card holders are still protected for the most part.

This isn't new migrants either, it's everyone. Anyone who's not a British citizen but is living here risks being kicked out if they're unsuccessful for a much stricter Visa. This can be former EU citizens who've been here for decades, paid taxes, had families, but just never applied for a passport (£1,700 btw) because why did they never need to do so?

I know someone from Europe who's lived here for 45 years, now retired, married to an English partner and is now receiving a pension after working the vast majority of their adult life here, paying taxes. They will be removed under this policy because they're no longer a skilled worker and they'll certainly get their pension taken away.

How is that fair? How is that what we want this country to be?
No one, wants to see foreign nationals that are working, paying taxes and contributing being deported.

But anyone that’s come here, never worked and received benefits all that time, needs looking at.

And anyone, that enters illegally should be immediately deported.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203333)
Farage was asked and said 'If they're not British Citizens, why are we paying them a pension' so....
If they haven’t paid into the system, he has a point.

If they have, substantially enough to qualify for a pension, then they should receive it.

---------- Post added at 08:35 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36203344)
Any fair-minded citizens will doubtless be concerned over this:

https://www.ft.com/content/429193b3-...2-9b0a6a6e9ab5
Why would he “rule it out” if he doesn’t know.

OLD BOY 25-09-2025 13:36
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203378)
No one, wants to see foreign nationals that are working, paying taxes and contributing being deported.

But anyone that’s come here, never worked and received benefits all that time, needs looking at.

And anyone, that enters illegally should be immediately deported.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------



If they haven’t paid into the system, he has a point.

If they have, substantially enough to qualify for a pension, then they should receive it.

---------- Post added at 08:35 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------



Why would he “rule it out” if he doesn’t know.
Correct on all three counts!

Damien 25-09-2025 17:23
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203378)
No one, wants to see foreign nationals that are working, paying taxes and contributing being deported.

But anyone that’s come here, never worked and received benefits all that time, needs looking at.

And anyone, that enters illegally should be immediately deported.

This is not the policy, though. He is clear about that. Everyone who has ILR will have that revoked; only those who are deemed to qualify for a skilled visa will be allowed to stay.

So that includes people who've been here most of their lives and either don't have a skilled enough job or are retired. If someone comes here in their 20s from Australia, settled, applies legally to stay here and then just gets on with life, then they are a target for deportation.

Quote:
If they haven’t paid into the system, he has a point.

If they have, substantially enough to qualify for a pension, then they should receive it.
Again, that's not the policy. If they've paid into the system, it still won't matter. Not only is their pension gone but they'll have their right to stay here taken away and won't be able to apply for a skilled visa.

Pierre 25-09-2025 17:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203418)
This is not the policy, though. He is clear about that. Everyone who has ILR will have that revoked; only those who are deemed to qualify for a skilled visa will be allowed to stay.

So that includes people who've been here most of their lives and either don't have a skilled enough job or are retired. If someone comes here in their 20s from Australia, settled, applies legally to stay here and then just gets on with life, then they are a target for deportation.



Again, that's not the policy. If they've paid into the system, it still won't matter. Not only is their pension gone but they'll have their right to stay here taken away and won't be able to apply for a skilled visa.
Well that wrong then.

1andrew1 25-09-2025 20:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36203419)
Well that wrong then.
A Pierre comment I can heartily agree with! :)

Jaymoss 26-09-2025 10:41
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Farage must be loving the Digital ID proposition . Bye bye Labour next election

Paul 26-09-2025 16:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Well they will already have been introduced by then, are you suggesting he'll dump them ?

Damien 26-09-2025 18:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I think if the system is fully up and running they won't ditch them. But that's a big if.

RichardCoulter 26-09-2025 18:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36203418)
This is not the policy, though. He is clear about that. Everyone who has ILR will have that revoked; only those who are deemed to qualify for a skilled visa will be allowed to stay.

So that includes people who've been here most of their lives and either don't have a skilled enough job or are retired. If someone comes here in their 20s from Australia, settled, applies legally to stay here and then just gets on with life, then they are a target for deportation.



Again, that's not the policy. If they've paid into the system, it still won't matter. Not only is their pension gone but they'll have their right to stay here taken away and won't be able to apply for a skilled visa.
Why would such people not be entitled to the pension that they've paid for?

AIUI it's paid at the rate it was when they left the UK, but is frozen ie not uprated:

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad

Hugh 27-09-2025 18:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
BBC News - Ex-Reform politician admits Russia-linked bribery charges

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj6xwy015ngo

Quote:
Reform UK's former leader in Wales has admitted taking bribes to make statements in favour of Russia while being a Member of the European Parliament.

Nathan Gill, 52, from Llangefni, Anglesey, pleaded guilty to eight counts of bribery between 6 December 2018 and 18 July 2019.

The politician took money from Oleg Voloshyn - a man once described by the US government as a "pawn" of Russian secret services - and made speeches in the parliament, statements to a TV channel and arranged an event with a pro-Russian politician.

Gill will be sentenced in November and his defence barrister said he expected to be jailed.

OLD BOY 27-09-2025 19:20
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...of-deportation

[EXTRACT]

. In response to questions from journalists, Yusuf clarified that the policy would not apply to EU citizens who have been granted settled status in the UK. But he said there were “a lot of EU nationals in this country who are drawing on universal credit, so you can expect Nigel’s government to open negotiations with the European Union specifically about the welfare aspect”.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9nyex12j5o

[EXTRACT]

The BBC's Nick Robinson asked whether pensioners would suddenly have to leave the country after many years due to the change in their status.
Kruger replied: "Of course there's no intention to have some sort of pensioner deportation programme," adding these residents should apply for British citizenship.

Sephiroth 27-09-2025 19:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
What might be the complementary numbers of Brits settled in the EU and the retaliation that might be visited upon them?

Reform UK really need to think things through before spouting off.

Maggy 28-09-2025 07:28
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203574)
What might be the complementary numbers of Brits settled in the EU and the retaliation that might be visited upon them?

Reform UK really need to think things through before spouting off.
Yep!

1andrew1 28-09-2025 07:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36203574)
What might be the complementary numbers of Brits settled in the EU and the retaliation that might be visited upon them?

Reform UK really need to think things through before spouting off.
Interesting point. I wonder if Farage is gambling that other countries won't stoop to his level? Or Reform have not just thought it through as you suggest?

Carth 28-09-2025 12:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Reform seem to be on a roll here.

Farage makes yet another announcement on how they *may* work on immigration . . ID cards . . housing whatever, and the media run with it.

Farage sits back and laughs as Starmer - yet again - does the knee jerk thing and digs himself a deeper hole :D

papa smurf 28-09-2025 12:04
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36203597)
Reform seem to be on a roll here.

Farage makes yet another announcement on how they *may* work on immigration . . ID cards . . housing whatever, and the media run with it.

Farage sits back and laughs as Starmer - yet again - does the knee jerk thing and digs himself a deeper hole :D
yep Starmer is reforms top recruiter

1andrew1 05-10-2025 22:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Farage's Brexit fantasy was buried years ago. Now it looks like his cost-saving fantasy has followed the same inevitable journey.

Quote:
Reform likely to raise Kent council tax after cost-cutting drive falters

Nigel Farage’s party promised to revive local authority finances by slashing wasteful spending

Kent was one of 10 English councils that Nigel Farage’s rightwing populist party seized in a swath of victories at local elections in May this year. He vowed to save “a lot of money” by abolishing “wasteful” spending.

But Diane Morton, Reform’s cabinet member for adult social care on Kent county council, told the Financial Times that services in Kent were already “down to the bare bones”.

“We’ve got more demand than ever before and it’s growing,” she said, stressing she did not believe access to those services should be limited. “We just want more money.”

As with many local authorities in England, the bulk of Kent’s budget is spent on adult and children’s social care, as well as on children with special education needs, which together accounted for about 50 per cent of its £2.5bn annual expenditure.

All councils have a legal duty to balance their books and will set next year’s budgets in February or March. Ahead of that, most councils in England are expected to increase council tax by 5 per cent, the maximum allowed.

“I think it’s going to be 5 per cent,” Morton said of where Kent county council would land on tax rises, adding that every 1 per cent increase would equate to an extra £10mn raised.

Reform’s experience in Kent highlights some of the obstacles it may face in national government if it won the next general election and attempted to follow through on its pledge to slash taxes and public spending.

“Everyone thought we’d come in and there were going to be these huge costs we could cut away but there just aren’t,” said a third senior Reform cabinet member in Kent. They said the priority was improving services.
https://www.ft.com/content/277c6a95-...b-b757693955ca

Dingbat 06-10-2025 00:00
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
When populism meets the real world.

Hugh 06-10-2025 07:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Non paywall link


https://archive.ph/9UwVb

Damien 06-10-2025 08:37
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Reform can go on about waste and no doubt find examples, but it's peanuts compared to the cost councils have when it comes to providing social care. It's a huge cost that's passed off to local councils that really should be on the national government.

Carth 06-10-2025 10:57
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
No idea if it's only my area, but Social Services are a total mess here.

Seems like there are now too many different departments all screaming that their needs are greater than the others, experienced staff are leaving (and not being replaced), and every week there are new (confusing) guidelines released on what you can and can't do and say.

oh, money to work with? . . what money?

Wife quit a few months ago, now works elsewhere with more hours for 2/3 of the salary she was getting . . and is happy as a pig in . . .

Pierre 06-10-2025 13:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36204165)
Reform can go on about waste and no doubt find examples, but it's peanuts compared to the cost councils have when it comes to providing social care. It's a huge cost that's passed off to local councils that really should be on the national government.
maybe if they stop calling every unruly kid "neuro-diverse" they may save a few quid off the educational SEN budget.

1andrew1 06-10-2025 18:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
One to watch.
Quote:
Tax authorities examine finances of key Nigel Farage ally

Exclusive: HMRC conducts scoping exercise into Reform UK backer ‘Posh George’ Cottrell’s income from business and wealth

The finances of one of Nigel Farage’s key confidants are being examined by the UK’s tax and revenue authorities amid questions over his income from wealth and business activities, the Guardian understands.

The scoping exercise by HMRC is said to be focused on tax residency and the business affairs of George Cottrell, whom Reform UK’s leader Farage has described as “like a son to me”.

Known as “Posh George”, Cottrell, 31, leads an expensive lifestyle, frequently travelling around the world and regularly using a £4m house in one of the wealthiest areas of west London.

Cottrell has emerged as a senior figure within Reform’s leadership and supporter network at a time when the party is surging ahead in the polls.

Lawyers for the British businessman said he was “not aware” of any “probe or inquiry” by HMRC or other authorities. They declined to answer a range of specific questions about his financial affairs.

Cottrell runs Geostrategy.com, which states that it advises political parties and governments, according to information provided by his lawyers. Its website says that it has four locations: London, Washington, Podgorica in Montenegro and Zurich, Switzerland.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...eorge-cottrell

damien c 07-10-2025 15:26
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36204186)
maybe if they stop calling every unruly kid "neuro-diverse" they may save a few quid off the educational SEN budget.
Exactly, the level of "Mental Health" diagnoses etc has sky rocketed since the lunatic left started getting given the green light to do what they want.

I saw a few weeks ago a question "How many gay, lesbian or trans people were in your high school?" my answer was 6 in the whole of the high school that were openly or 100% obviously a member of one of those.

Now I talk to my nieces or look online and it's about 90% of the school are something other than "Straight, Bi, Gay, Trans" and each one of them needs special treatment and arrangements making for them because if they don't get them, then you are a "Ist or phobe" and bigot that needs to be fired, I would 100% hate to be a school teacher, it's why I was shocked when my sister became one.

The level of money wasted on stupid things is atrocious, let's not forget the UK Government gave grant funding for the development of "Dustborn, a game where you call anyone who is white a fascist and racist", money given to "AI robots to help make companies more accessible to non-binary and LGBTQ+ minorities".


There is wasted money everywhere and unfortunately it will never be stopped, because none of the MP's want to stop their gravy trains.

TheDaddy 07-10-2025 15:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by damien c (Post 36204254)
Exactly, the level of "Mental Health" diagnoses etc has sky rocketed since the lunatic left started getting given the green light to do what they want.

I saw a few weeks ago a question "How many gay, lesbian or trans people were in your high school?" my answer was 6 in the whole of the high school that were openly or 100% obviously a member of one of those.

Now I talk to my nieces or look online and it's about 90% of the school are something other than "Straight, Bi, Gay, Trans" and each one of them needs special treatment and arrangements making for them because if they don't get them, then you are a "Ist or phobe" and bigot that needs to be fired, I would 100% hate to be a school teacher, it's why I was shocked when my sister became one.

The level of money wasted on stupid things is atrocious, let's not forget the UK Government gave grant funding for the development of "Dustborn, a game where you call anyone who is white a fascist and racist", money given to "AI robots to help make companies more accessible to non-binary and LGBTQ+ minorities".


There is wasted money everywhere and unfortunately it will never be stopped, because none of the MP's want to stop their gravy trains.
Don't believe the hype, I'm old enough to remember when the department of doge promised 2 trillion in efficiency savings, so much that people would be getting a $5k doge rebate cheque and what they produced was a whole lot of misery for about a 20 billion saving at best, big numbers for sure but when you set out for 2 trillion and come back with 20 billion it kind of suggests that the government was pretty efficient as it was and you think after 14 years of austerity there is fat to trim off the bone here, think again would be my best advice, if they could've cut it they would off, that's the only thing I'd trust the Tories with, cutting services for people not as rich as themselves

Carth 07-10-2025 15:52
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I develop 'mental health' issues when I see this sort of crap on the TV news, online media and newspapers. (re:damiens post)

If I went to the doctor he'd laugh at me . . and then offer me 12 different tablets and arrange 4 counselling appointments with the very same organisations that piss me off :D

Jaymoss 07-10-2025 16:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36204256)
I develop 'mental health' issues when I see this sort of crap on the TV news, online media and newspapers. (re:damiens post)

If I went to the doctor he'd laugh at me . . and then offer me 12 different tablets and arrange 4 counselling appointments with the very same organisations that piss me off :D
You are lucky if you get counselling. I have battled with my mental health all my life and had to fight to get any support at all. Currently prescribed Venlafaxine that most the times makes me feel worse and like I am looking at the world threw someone elses eyes. Then you have to triage with some stranger over the phone which is awful and then get offer CBT which to be honest did not cover half of my worse triggers with the councillor saying oh we do not cover that area . If I was not morbidly afraid of death since the age of 6 when it all started with encephalitis nearly killing me I would have killed myself and tried with food which was why I got to 31 stone. I pray one day a party any party takes it seriously because I struggle to one degree or another every single day

Carth 07-10-2025 16:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quite obviously you're one of those that does need the help and support.

My 'problem' is with those that seem to jump on the mental health bandwagon because . . well basically it's used as a get out of jail free card, and those sort are diluting the care packages down to minimum

thenry 10-10-2025 17:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Does anybody have the full video of this please

https://news.sky.com/story/migrant-w...arage-13447937

damien c 12-10-2025 08:07
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36204459)
Does anybody have the full video of this please

https://news.sky.com/story/migrant-w...arage-13447937
Can't find the original video, but there is this from GBNews from October 2024, it's the first 2 minutes or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM0BljZ8DkM

papa smurf 14-10-2025 12:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Migrant with AK-47 face tattoo jailed for threatening to kill Nigel Farage
In the "chilling" video, Fayaz Khan said he was coming to England to "pop, pop, pop" Nigel Farage after the Reform UK leader posted a video of the Afghan national coming to the UK in a small boat. 5 years probably out in 18 months


https://news.sky.com/story/migrant-w...arage-13449841

thenry 14-10-2025 12:16
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Yeah he ain't civilised

Pierre 14-10-2025 18:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36204631)
Migrant with AK-47 face tattoo jailed for threatening to kill Nigel Farage
In the "chilling" video, Fayaz Khan said he was coming to England to "pop, pop, pop" Nigel Farage after the Reform UK leader posted a video of the Afghan national coming to the UK in a small boat. 5 years probably out in 18 months


https://news.sky.com/story/migrant-w...arage-13449841
And at present we would struggle to deport him.

1andrew1 20-10-2025 09:25
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
From the usually supportive Telegraph.
Quote:
Nigel Farage’s partner ‘embroiled in Brussels fraud investigation’

Nigel Farage’s partner has allegedly been caught up in an investigation into allegations of fraud at a Eurosceptic group she ran in Brussels.

Laure Ferrari served as executive director of the Institute for Direct Democracy in Europe (IDDE), a think tank, until it was forced into liquidation.

The European Commission anti-fraud unit has spent years investigating the organisation and a connected parliamentary group, of which Ukip was the biggest party, before handing the case on to local law enforcement.

Chamber 69 of the tribunal de première instance, a Brussels court specialising in financial crime, is due to hand down its judgment on Nov 5, the Times reports.

Ann Lukowiak, a spokesman for the federal prosecutor, said it would be a “final judgment where appeal will be possible”.

The investigation relates to a time when Ms Ferrari was officially registered as the “day-to-day manager” of the group, according to corporate filings seen by the Times.

The newspaper reports that as a result of auditors’ reports, and a referral by EU parliamentary authorities, the European Commission’s anti-fraud office, Olaf, launched an investigation.

The IDDE was forced into liquidation in 2017, but inquiries continued into “serious irregularities”.
Telegraph article: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...a3d63eaf&ei=11

Original Times article: https://archive.ph/0VWFo

papa smurf 20-10-2025 09:49
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36204647)
And at present we would struggle to deport him.
assuming he leaves prison alive

1andrew1 22-10-2025 15:18
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Someone on GB News in touch with reality?

Quote:
Last May, the people of Kent did precisely that. Nigel Farage’s candidates were flung into power, scooping up 57 of the 81 available seats on the county council.

However, despite a promise to slash costs, the council’s leadership quickly discovered what anyone working in local government already knew: there was nothing more to cut.

As Kent’s cabinet member for adult social care put it, services were already “down to the bare bones”.

It’s a common story across the country.

Councils have been stripped back like an antique floorboard – central government grants fell by 40 per cent in real terms during the 2010s, according to the Institute for Government.

And so in Kent, Reform is preparing to do the opposite of what it promised, raise council tax by five per cent.

This collision of rhetoric and reality is causing tensions at county hall.

Reform will be asking for your vote at the next general election – if not sooner – and they’ll use the same seductive playbook they deployed in Kent.

Solving the migrant crisis? Easy! Just deport all asylum seekers.

Cutting energy bills? Easy! Just scrap net zero.

Fixing the prison crisis? Easy! Just ship offenders overseas.

Those kinds of simplistic promises worked before because Reform enjoyed one major advantage.

As a new party, it had no track record. That allowed Farage to surf a wave of pure vibes, saying whatever was politically convenient at the time.

But not anymore.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other...3a753709&ei=26

Pierre 22-10-2025 15:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36205119)
Someone on GB News in touch with reality?


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other...3a753709&ei=26
It’s irrelevant.

If Reform win, it will be because they’re not Labour or Conservative. Regardless of what is or isn’t promised

Carth 22-10-2025 16:00
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Nah, just another councilor (labour this time) spouting shit about another local council 'needing to raise taxes' and kicking Reform (Farage) as he does so . . . conveniently not mentioning that 99% of local councils are in the shit financially . . even his.

I'm sure you have better things to be doing Andrew :D

oh, and MSM . . really!

Damien 22-10-2025 16:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Councils have been pretty much screwed, whoever runs them, as they get lumbered with the cost of a lot of social care, but governments feel comfortable cutting their budgets as they don't get the blame.

Carth 22-10-2025 16:18
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Exactly Damien :Yes:

1andrew1 22-10-2025 16:55
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36205129)
Councils have been pretty much screwed, whoever runs them, as they get lumbered with the cost of a lot of social care, but governments feel comfortable cutting their budgets as they don't get the blame.
Spot on.

Cut backs to council funding started in 2010 and whilst central government is no longer making cutbacks, councils just don't have the wriggle room these days for efficiency savings that Reform UK and Old Boy have said they have.

Carth 22-10-2025 17:33
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Simple economics have changed drastically since I went to school

'John takes an apple to school, he decides to share it with his 3 friends . . each gets half an apple'


nowadays:

John takes an apple to school, his new 56 friends want a share . . he tells them to bugger off and eats it himself. There is no waste bin in the school yard so he drops the apple onto the floor. Immediately his parents are hit with a £2400 fine for littering. Word gets out onto social media, John's father loses his job, his mother is excluded from the nagging wives cult. They have to sell their house and live in a broken down caravan on a derelict car park. As there is now no money coming into the household, John no longer takes an apple to school.

The End :D

1andrew1 22-10-2025 18:19
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36205137)
Simple economics have changed drastically since I went to school

'John takes an apple to school, he decides to share it with his 3 friends . . each gets half an apple'
That looks suspiciously like Truss-Reform UK maths. :D

Carth 22-10-2025 18:40
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36205143)
That looks suspiciously like Truss-Reform UK maths. :D
Yes, I will admit to the basic error, but in my defense, as I had just started to compose the rather short yet concise report (Economics 101 - UK Edition 2025), I found myself distracted by being called away for a 'minute' by her indoors.


Surely this is definite proof that women and math don't go together . . . and proof reading is sometimes worth the extra 25 seconds taken before posting :D

oh, and if I edit it now it would be cheating ;)

Hugh 22-10-2025 18:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
"math"?

You some sort of undercover Septic mole?

Carth 22-10-2025 18:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36205145)
"math"?

You some sort of undercover Septic mole?
I don't know how to spell mathematics, and anyway . . there could be a character limit on posting :D

Hugh 22-10-2025 18:57
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1761155821

Carth 22-10-2025 19:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Brilliant, so we now need to somehow ensure the North of England points East, or west, or any different direction . . and if we don't manage that little trick we have to swim for it.

Sephiroth 22-10-2025 19:16
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36205150)
Brilliant, so we now need to somehow ensure the North of England points East, or west, or any different direction . . and if we don't manage that little trick we have to swim for it.
The North of England is already pointing East.

Chris 22-10-2025 19:21
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36205154)
The North of England is already pointing East.
Blooming genuflecting Anglocatholics.

Hugh 22-10-2025 19:26
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36205156)
Blooming genuflecting Anglocatholics.
C of E as well…

Sephiroth 22-10-2025 19:31
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36205156)
Blooming genuflecting Anglocatholics.
Er, no.

Chris 22-10-2025 19:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36205158)
Er, no.
Yeah, they even bow to the bishop. We didn’t have a Reformation just so they could swing incense about the place willy-nilly.

Carth 22-10-2025 19:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36205159)
Yeah, they even bow to the bishop. We didn’t have a Reformation just so they could swing incense about the place willy-nilly.
Should be banned that, could easily take someone's eye out :D

1andrew1 23-10-2025 11:00
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Amusing to see Farage throwing a hissy fit! I guess he thinks that the House of Commons should be like GB News or the BBC who hang upon his every word!

If Reform gets into power, will he allow the other parties a right to reply? I don't think so, given how he's now happy for MPs and councillors to keep their seats after changing parties to Reform, despite advocating for such politicians to seek re-election in the past.

Quote:
"Every week at PMQs I am attacked by the PM and Labour MPs, but have no right of reply. I am just a mere spectator. So I have decided to spectate from the public gallery today instead."

His comments followed the Prime Minister branding Reform as "Kremlin cronies sewing division".
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...dish-spice-bag

Hugh 23-10-2025 11:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
How it actually works…

https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...f-the-speaker/

Quote:
There are 15 questions on the Order Paper for Prime Minister’s Questions. Because more MPs want to ask a question than there are slots available, a ballot (known as the 'shuffle') is run on a computer programme. This decides by random which MPs will ask questions and the order they will be asked in. The MPs are listed in the Order Paper and the Speaker calls on MPs in that order.

In addition to the MPs drawn in the 'shuffle', the Leader of the official Opposition usually asks six questions, and the leader of the third largest party two questions.

papa smurf 23-10-2025 11:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
they need to stop the arse kissing do you think our party is fabulous questions and stick to current topics

Carth 23-10-2025 12:25
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
"I didn't get where I am today by arse kissing" . . says almost everybody stuck in the lower half of the promotion ladder :D

Sephiroth 23-10-2025 13:23
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36205172)
"I didn't get where I am today by arse kissing" . . says almost everybody stuck in the lower half of the promotion ladder :D
Probably the wrong thread for this sentiment!

Pierre 23-10-2025 16:06
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36205168)
Amusing to see Farage throwing a hissy fit! I guess he thinks that the House of Commons should be like GB News or the BBC who hang upon his every word!

If Reform gets into power, will he allow the other parties a right to reply? I don't think so, given how he's now happy for MPs and councillors to keep their seats after changing parties to Reform, despite advocating for such politicians to seek re-election in the past.


https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...dish-spice-bag
Labour are going after reform, they see the threat. Reeves is going to blame Farage for her budget.

He's just getting in there first, like any competent political operator would.

1andrew1 23-10-2025 17:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36205188)
Labour are going after reform, they see the threat. Reeves is going to blame Farage for her budget.

He's just getting in there first, like any competent political operator would.
Reeves would be daft to hide the negative ongoing cost of Brexit from the public now. That was her approach last time round when Labour wanted to woo former Brexit voters. Labour knows they're a lost cause now so she has nothing to lose.

Mr K 23-10-2025 21:12
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36205189)
Reeves would be daft to hide the negative ongoing cost of Brexit from the public now. That was her approach last time round when Labour wanted to woo former Brexit voters. Labour knows they're a lost cause now so she has nothing to lose.
Brexit has been the elephant in UK room for a decade now. But no politician has dared admit it for fear of telling the electorate that they're stupid.

Carth 24-10-2025 01:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36205205)
Brexit has been the elephant in UK room for a decade now. But no politician has dared admit it for fear of telling the electorate that they're stupid.
Electorate aren't anywhere near as stupid as the idiots that listened to all the experts and polling companies that said "hey don't worry, Remain will ace this"

Quite possibly if they hadn't ignored 'the man in the street' they wouldn't have been so smug and sorted it better . . oh and wow, look at that, they're doing it again, ignoring the people :D

Mr K 24-10-2025 06:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36205210)
Electorate aren't anywhere near as stupid as the idiots that listened to all the experts and polling companies that said "hey don't worry, Remain will ace this"

Quite possibly if they hadn't ignored 'the man in the street' they wouldn't have been so smug and sorted it better . . oh and wow, look at that, they're doing it again, ignoring the people :D
The 'people' haven't got a good track record. Politicians can't always be blamed. They are making a massive mistake again if they're taken in by Farage, the man that sold them Brexit.

Maggy 24-10-2025 09:24
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I really hate Farage. I don't think he gives a stuff about anything but what he can get out of the public purse for his own back pocket. He's on the make.

tweetiepooh 24-10-2025 09:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I still support Brexit but that is another topic.
More relevant here is Plaid beat Reform in Caerphilly.

Interestingly the Google search "Plaid Cymru beat reform" has two headlines from BBC

Plaid Cymru defeats Reform in Welsh Parliament Caerphilly by-election
Plaid Cymru wins Caerphilly by-election as Labour loses ...

 https://www.cableforum.uk/board/data...BJRU5ErkJggg==



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