Re: The energy crisis
 

Is the levy for all gas usage or just Russian gas usage, if it's Russian it wouldn't have affected us anyway as I doubt even as much as 15% of our gas comes from Russia

Re: The energy crisis
 

Details on the £400 Energy Bill Support Scheme.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Martin Lewis yesterday stated the expected rise of gas prices will be 77% I am not sure if he meant the whole price cap or just the gas side of it

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/money-s...-to-rise-by-77

Re: The energy crisis
 

I was looking forward to paying off my £185 a month mortgage in October but it looks like it'll all be going into energy costs now!

Re: The energy crisis
 

They must NOT be allowed to increase standing charges.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Why not? If the costs to the suppliers has gone up, then the money has to come from somewhere.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The cost of maintaining the infrastructure is separate to the the price of energy though and lets be honest those who sell to us do not maintain anything bar perhaps the meter

Is it Centrica? the company that has reported massive profits?

Re: The energy crisis
 

The suppliers get charged for providing the infrastructure. The standing charge is separate so you can compare usage tariffs.


It's NOT Centrica, and even if it was, Centrica is the PARENT multinational company, so has several sources of income, including selling Oil and Gas(where they DON'T set the buying price).


Eg Western Power Distribution is the Electrical distributor for the Midlands, South Wales, and the South West. They will be the ones setting the distribution costs for those areas.

Re: The energy crisis
 

From their vastly increased profits?

Re: The energy crisis
 

WHOSE profits? Are the distribution companies making "vastly increased profits? NO. otherwise Ofgem wouldn't have increased the standing charge cap.:rolleyes:

Western Power Distribution

Re: The energy crisis
 

The charge is basically just a tax on having a meter, regardless of use.
The whole "infrastructure" excuse has been exposed as just nonsense now.
My electricity standing charge almost doubled, I'm quite sure the cost of distributing that electricity did not.

---------- Post added at 13:18 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

Great, so they will of course be reducing my Direct Debit by £66 for six months ...

Re: The energy crisis
 

The power generators and suppliers like EDF, Shell, and Centrica…

Re: The energy crisis
 

So which distribution companies are making "vastly increased profits?
Link



---------- Post added at 13:40 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

Shell and Centrica are NOT suppliers.
EDF had a 6 month loss of £4.4bn.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Since I made no mention of profits, why are you asking me ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

You are employing casuistry - they are the Parent Companies of Energy suppliers; I am a Shell Energy customer, which is wholly owned by Shell.

From Shell Energy website

https://www.shellenergy.co.uk/blog/p...ancial-results

Re: The energy crisis
 

Wrong.

The regional DNOs operate local monopolies and as such are highly regulated. Ofgem requires each DNO to submit a business plan and to demonstrate how the plan meets certain criteria around investment, value for money etc. Ofgem approves the plan and scrutinises the DNO’s performance against it. At the conclusion of each control period the process repeats.

Therefore the distribution cost is the result of a very detailed process in which the regulator has very significant input. To say that any DNO is “setting the distribution costs” for its area is simplistic to the point of being misleading.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They are LEGALLY separate companies. Income that Shell makes from selling to other countries has nothing to with Shell Energy. What about all the other suppliers that have absolutely no connection to Shell?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Never mind all going to a good home - my Shell dividends :)
Thank God my old man was a Tory and bequeathed them .. Doing very nicely.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

That's where the bulk of the standing charge increase has gone. Bulb is likely to cost over £2bn, on top of the £2.7bn on others.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Moment wind turbine catches fire and sends acrid black smoke billowing across city as firefighters battle the blaze

Environmentally friendly :dunce:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wing-city.html

Re: The energy crisis
 

Some interesting bits of info ;


It also takes about 4 years to get the money back on building them.

A standard 2MW generator could (in theory) power about 2000 homes for a year (assuming a years supply of wind ...)

Re: The energy crisis
 

As per many we just about manage, we went from £113 a month duel fuel to £196 a month in April.

By April next year Sky news has reported that it could now be as high as £4430 thats around £370 a month no way can I afford that kind of payment and this is providing the energy companies don't add there own top up on top of this. As the Gov has said average current household is paying about £164 but mine is higher so it could be as high as £400 a month. My daughters afterschool club fees alone are nearly £500 a month. Me and the wife bring home around £2700 a month after tax and insurance etc so £900 could be just on 2 things.

My eldest daughter is 21 this year I wanted to get her a car so she can travel to uni and back. nothing brandnew but something nice but I can't see that happening the way things are going at the moment we are just about managing to get from month to month

Re: The energy crisis
 

For what it's worth, I feel for you and everyone else with the same worries.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The CBI gets the urgency of the situation.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...p-energy-bills

Re: The energy crisis
 

Once the mortgage was paid off and so also not paying into the endowments we had "spare" in our monthly pot. We put most of that into savings with a little bit used for spending rather than increasing our lifestyle to match our newly increased spare finance.


Generally we have been fortunate that when big bills have hit we have had the resource to meet them. We are also able at this time to be hospitable. It's even more fun to be generously hospitable to those who can't return the favour (but without making them uncomfortable). Hospitality is about the guest rather than entertaining where focus is more on the host.

Re: The energy crisis
 

One can only reach the conclusion that the Tories are all in for one last hurrah at extracting the wealth of the British people into private multinational companies. Even the miserly £400 is simply siphoning taxpayers money into them. While barely touching the sides of the problem.

Re: The energy crisis
 

you say that but for me the £400 means I do not need to up my direct debit till after they finish paying it so it means a lot to me

Re: The energy crisis
 

Interestingly the wholesale price is 40% down on what it was in March, be interested to hear what excuse they come up with to keep the prices high next year

Re: The energy crisis
 

well in theory it should come down with the cap in April. We live in hope

Re: The energy crisis
 

Actual figures:

Re: The energy crisis
 

So roughly 1 in 2,000. I’m not altogether sure what’s so scandalous about that, especially given the relatively youthful state of the technology. Plus, they tend to be located out of harm’s way.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Devil's in the detail on how this might work - that's the beauty of being in opposition - but at least they see the urgency of the situation.
https://news.sky.com/story/lib-dems-...e-cap-12669040

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...4#post36130214 :D

Re: The energy crisis
 

82% predicted now FGS. This is just stupid

Would not be surprised if it creeps up to 90+% by October

Must admit it is really affecting my mental health

Re: The energy crisis
 

Link

Re: The energy crisis
 

Doesn't sound very free market it sounds like the public getting strung up. Prices go up: you pay. Prices go down: you still pay.

Re: The energy crisis
 

estimates are now 19% for January as well

Re: The energy crisis
 

What are these % figures you are quoting related to ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

The estimates (from Cornwall Insights) for the energy price “cap” rise.

Generally their estimates are the ones used in the headlines and they seem to be publishing them almost weekly.

My fix from last August is up in a few weeks and I took the deal offered for 12 months (about a 70% over the current variable rate). It looks like it’ll get there in October and go 20% over that figure in January and remain so well into next year.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The prices the suppliers pay, HASN'T gone down yet.:rolleyes:

Just as customers on a fixed rate deal can be paying less or more, for that period of time.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Their profits haven’t gone down either. All reward no risk.

Re: The energy crisis
 

it is the estimated increase in the price cap. They are figures from a company has said and publicised by Martin Lewis. They are based on the cost and changes as the cost does

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

Incidentally Octopus has changed it forecast and that looks incredibly bleak also

Re: The energy crisis
 

What profits are the suppliers making, NOT the parent companies?
How come other countries around the world are also having gas price increases?

Re: The energy crisis
 

A pointless and arbitrary distinction.

I’m not sure how this goes against my point of all reward, no risk.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The parent companies earn money from all around the world, and from various activities. Any profits the parent companies make, do not belong to the supplier companies, unless the profits are from the supplier company. If would be unfair competition, if a large multinational could use profits from elsewhere to undercut their competitors.

So they are all working in concert? What supposedly massive profits are the supplier companies making?
Octopus 2021 £85m LOSS.
SSE/OVO 2020 £7m LOSS
EDF 2020 £154m LOSS

During the height of covid, in one US oil market, the price was negative, ie they would pay you to take the oil. Not always a reward.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well Octopus seem to moving ahead in increasing their share of the UK energy supply market, so they must see it as a market worth being in.

Re: The energy crisis
 

So they offshore the profits into parent companies to reduce tax liability?

I’m not sure this is the quick win you thought it was when you took to the keyboard.

Are they all working in concert? Potentially. However the market is so fundamentally flawed they could independently be price gouging consumers because rationally - with no risk - they can maximise their profits that are completely unlinked to the cost of energy supply.

Re: The energy crisis
 

captured market now and the price cap being what it is and covering increases they see it as a winner

They bought a lot in advance when it was cheap so did not fall foul of the price rises and all their customers on deals and them having to buy in energy at increased prices. They played the game well

Re: The energy crisis
 

It would still appear in their accounts as profits, and UK tax would be paid on any profits. After that, any profits left may be transferred to the parent company as they own it.
Where is the evidence that the suppliers are making massive profits?

Re: The energy crisis
 

You are deliberately interpreting posts with the narrow scope of suppliers - the last actor in the supply chain - rather than considering the energy sector as a whole.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's the companies that extract the gas and oil that are making a killling. Some of these are also suppliers but that business isn't making much money as evidenced by companies that only supply going to the wall.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They ARE NOT making a "killing" by design or choice. Still completely nothing to do with the cost of energy to our homes. The suppliers ARE NOT making massive profits that can be magically redistributed to the customers.
Yet to see evidence to the contrary.
All articles on the issue tend to include parent companies and groups, not the supplier companies in isolation. Misleading by the media, as usual.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You mean like the 30 or so "suppliers" that went bust in the last year or so because suppliers are clearly not making any profits.

Seems more like you are deliberately interpreting parent company profits as theirs, when they are not.

Re: The energy crisis
 

too put it in the most simplest of terms it is the suppliers of the suppliers that are making the profit hahaha

Re: The energy crisis
 

Sometimes it's the suppliers, of the suppliers, of the suppliers. The producers of gas, sell it to the electricity generators, who sell the electricity to the domestic suppliers.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It wouldn't surprise me if ultimately many of the companies involved are owned by one or two companies or people ultimately if you follow the cookie trail back all the way.

Re: The energy crisis
 

So what? They are still separate companies, where one is not allowed to subsidise the other.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Why not?

Re: The energy crisis
 

The point being the people or companies at the top of it will be making increased profits as the prices rise anyway, even if some of their companies down the pyramid are making less. Doesn't matter to them in the long run.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The industry is price gouging consumers, with no link to the cost of producing energy. The suppliers (essentially speculators) in the middle going bust is entirely incidental. They exist to manufacture competition in a process that doesn’t really exist, and isn’t necessary other than to give a pretence that the free market serves public utilities.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You really have lost the plot ... :sleep:

I'm sure all the users and employes of those 28 companies thank you for your concern. :dozey:

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’m so glad I don’t live in your delusional world, jfman.

Re: The energy crisis
 

tbf, you have your own version…

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’m not sure pointing out that their users and employees are victims of inadequately regulated capitalism is the win you think it is to be honest.

---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

If you pay energy bills you absolutely live in my world, OB.

Re: The energy crisis
 

This is the actual issue for discussion: allowing the market to deliver revenue & profit from an infrastructure sector at the expense of large parts of the population.

The only good thing that will come out of this is the awareness of the level of greed & exploitation such a system delivers. The commodity traders and other players in the market literally do not care if their actions result in people going hungry and/or cold. It's all about the money. The really sad part is the number of people who will schill for these companies, players, etc. They are either are part of the system in that they directly benefit from these market changes or they are just ill informed at best, or at worse, morons.

Playing the card "but, but, they have a duty to the shareholders" is just a shallow deflection. Companies that operate in the UK, raise revenue in the UK, employ people in the UK have, at the end of the day, have a duty to the UK. In times of national extremes, they should behave accordingly. Profits should be reinvested in the company: reducing product prices, improving employee wages and investing in infrastructure.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Someone said earlier Shell paid no tax in the UK in 2021 either, cake and eat it

Re: The energy crisis
 

I agree with the sentiment, however the card "they have a duty to shareholders" is valid. It's not those actors that are flawed - they're acting entirely rationally. They've been handed licences to print money by Governments who sold off energy security to the highest bidder. That's what makes the model fundamentally flawed, and decades of conservative ideology and market liberalisation have come to just this.

Energy companies have no incentive to innovate, to reduce costs, to provide genuine competition against one another. It is more rational to restrict supply, move the risk to shell companies (and therefore back to Government), raise profit margins and enjoy supernormal profits at the expense of the gullible fools who fell for the myth that the private sector could replace public utilities.

This of course is not unique to the UK - however only state intervention can solve the problem.

The real fear the Tories have is once people realise the wool has been pulled over their eyes in the energy markets it's the tip of the iceberg.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

I wonder how small businesses will cope, they don't have a cap and whilst everyone naturally thinks of industry I heard a corner shop owner from Glasgow saying his electric bill was now 56k per year, how can businesses like that reasonably be expected to pass that on to customers

Re: The energy crisis
 

Still waiting for the list of massive profits that the UK domestic energy SUPPLIERS are making.
New supplies of gas? There's a worldwide shortage. That is the reason for high prices.:rolleyes: Although I do wonder that if there are shortages, who is going without?

How exactly do city bonuses fuel inflation? They are taxed anyway. At least they are generating the income to pay those bonuses.

Germany is looking at a 20% reduction in gas usage, AND a 20% reduction in gas going through their pipelines to other countries, and even then, they are having to look at the priority of which industries might have to shut down.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You’ve been told this is a pointless, arbitrary distinction (as opposed to considering the market as a whole) that has no value to the discussion.

---------- Post added at 08:25 ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 ----------

Socialism for fat cats. Nationalise the losses, privatise the profits. The banking crisis all over again.

How about we privatise the losses and nationalise the profits?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yeh, unlike those useless teachers, doctors, nurses, train staff - all they do is educate future generations, save lives, get people to work; where’s the income generation in that?

Re: The energy crisis
 

The claim is that the bonuses fuel inflation, they don't, so somebody is telling fibs. The bonuses are already funded, all the other large pay demands are not.
It is large pay rises for larger groups, that would fuel large pay demands from others, and therefore fuel inflation. Where is all the money expected to come from? Higher taxes?
What was the "solution" for double digit inflation under a previous Labour government? Below inflation pay rises(agreed with the Unions:confused:) and what would now be called austerity.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think you have quoted the wrong post, did you mean to quote jfman's?

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

I think we'll see many shops and hospitality outlets having to reduce their hours and some handing back the keys. And still the Conservative Party leader challengers are against onshore wind turbines.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61743920

Re: The energy crisis
 

Interesting read on what other countries are doing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61522123

Re: The energy crisis
 

During the build-up to this massive price increase, and all the way up to now, the one thing I still haven't heard mentioned is O.P.E.C.

It's all being blamed on individual companies and governments.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Another interesting read - this site has been collecting data on energy prices in Europe since 2009.

https://www.energypriceindex.com/

In it's latest press release, it has a graph of consumer electricity prices throughout Europe.

https://publuu.com/flip-book/6678/108615/page/1

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1660213717

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1660213999

Re: The energy crisis
 

The clue might be in the name - Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries ;)

They are Oil/Petroleum, not Gas...

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think that there is one point that demonstrates that the whole privatised energy sector is a scam and that is whilst the UK produces nearly 50% of renewable electricity, where the production costs are not impacted by oil/gas prices, the price of electricity presented to the consumer is rising in line with gas.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Link


---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 ----------

They also produce Gas, which can nowadays be shipped around the world in LNG tankers.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

How can they offer "lower bills" using non-existent profits? How many energy suppliers have UK based parent companies in the first place?

If you were to do a survey asking which supplier people had, and asked if that supplier making "massive profits", what do you think they would say?
So who apart from me, and perhaps a few others, ISN'T saying that the suppliers are making "massive profits"?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Gordon Brown has suggested nationalising them if they can't.

Re: The energy crisis
 

So how many could?:rolleyes: He is still promoting the LIE, that the SUPPLIERS are making "massive profits".

Re: The energy crisis
 

He's coming up with a solution to the problem which you're not. If they cannot afford it, he's offering to nationalise them. That would settle your argument conclusively.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The Labour answer to everything. ;)

So how precisely would it help ? and how would it be paid for ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

How would nationalising them solve anything? Any nationalised business would still have to pay high prices for the energy.
Still doesn't change the FACT, that almost everybody is under the impression that the suppliers are making "massive profits". So are they or aren't they?

Re: The energy crisis
 

How would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?

Re: The energy crisis
 

That's the key question.

Re: The energy crisis
 

To begin with, STOP PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA, TELLING LIES.
People should not be under the FALSE impression, that the suppliers are making massive profits, and can therefore reduce their prices. The TRUTH seems to be an antiquated concept.
Far too late to do things such as nuclear energy and fracking.
If there is meant to be a shortage of gas, who exactly is going without?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

I'm not sure any of the above helps the man on the Clapham Omnibus pay his bills.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You appear to have sourced that quote from here

https://www.wise-geek.com/how-does-o...er%20of%20OPEC.

They are using the US terminology for petrol…

Re: The energy crisis
 

All very nice, but I'm still wondering how would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well nationalising the energy suppliers won't either.
So the question, unsurprisingly still remains, of what massive profits are the suppliers making that they could possibly reduce prices?
My last sentence of my previous post, poses an important question. Is anybody going without energy, because others have bought it all up at high prices?

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...728988673.html

Re: The energy crisis
 

The first step to potentially solving a problem, is to actually properly understand it. That involves not allowing people to be fed fake news.

To understand it, you would have to accept that nationalising anything that moves, will not solve anything. Private companies tend to go to greater lengths to buy things at as low a price as possible. A nationalised business isn't going to magically lower costs.

Re: The energy crisis
 

If you nationalise them then you can, as Gordon Brown has described. It should be a last case scenario.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

It's clear market and regulatory failure here, isn't it? There was no business case for Centrica to maintain storage at the time and no strategic requirement from the regulator to fund it.

Re: The energy crisis
 

A sure fire sign someone is on solid ground is capitalising the word TRUTH.

Re: The energy crisis
 

How? They still have to pay the same prices for the energy.
With 28m households, £2.8bn would only reduce the cap by £100. How many suppliers are making those sorts of profits?
Germany has a lot of storage, but is still having to high prices for gas, especially to refill that storage.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

So what have the £3bn profits of GERMAN company E.ON got to do with the UK? Split that up into the number of countries they do business in, and you're not left with much.

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/811...rld%20reserves.