Re: Brexit discussion
 

If you're going by economic growth then Europe is outpacing us at the moment.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Damien, you've been warned before about bringing your "EU is outperforming the UK" facts to this thread before. Only negative facts about the EU permitted here! ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Still does not remove the fact that, leaving the EU will not be a disaster the remain side hopes it to be.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's not a fact Mick, that's a prediction.

Europe's economy growing faster than the UK is a fact.

(And why would anyone who lives in the UK and has children hope for a disaster ? )

Re: Brexit discussion
 

One never said it would be a disaster leaving but nor will leaving be the great panacea to cure all our ills unless one has rose tinted glasses on..

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:17 ----------

Why is that as l thought this was a democratised forum where all churches are welcomed.:)

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

Indeed it does not but nor does unfettered capitalism work either.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So what's different to you calling the decision to leave 'dumb' then ?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Think you're confusing me with Mr Bloomberg.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think selective memory springs to mind, you’ve pushed this ‘Brexit is dumb’ argument way before Bloomberg made his baseless opinion.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

ok, I'll bite, point to my Brexit is dumb post....
(pauses while Mick spends the evening searching through 2 Years of posts :D)

I've maybe just put an alternative remain argument. If you want a boring echo chamber just say ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Hypocrisy.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Are you calling Mick a hypocrite ? How very dare you :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Believe me, I have no intentions spending the night searching and trailing through your posts, I don’t need to. The search facility on this forum is top notch and I’ve found a few in seconds, where you’ve called the decision daft, which is just as similar.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

At the end of the day, it's Trump's buddy Putin who wants to divide the UK. Credit where it's due, Theresa May had the courage to call Putin out.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What absolute bollocks.

Putin did not influence my vote or anyone else’s in the UK FFS. It’s another crappy excuse for the lefties and liberals to blame the loss on something. It’s pathetic desperation.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Putin saught to divide the country between leavers and remainers. It's not terribly hard to work it out and to her credit Theresa May has done exactly this. No one has inferred that the troll farms favoured one side or the other; they just seek to divide us.
Please, raise your self above the leaver-remainer divide that our enemies relish and be proud of the democratic institution that is the United Kingdom.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Plenty on the right are also concerned about Russia's interference. There is a difference between saying it certainly influenced anyone's vote and saying it happened. This concern has existed for a long time. Russia have long used propaganda to try and undermine Western alliances and institutions.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No, what divides us is the ridicule from some of the Remainers, that the wrong decision was made, and people don’t know what they were voting for, that we need another referendum.

It’s rhetoric like this from people in this Country, not Russia, that creates the divide, you and your remainer buddies have played a key role in this division.

And I couldn’t give a stuff what Theresa May says, and neither do you 99% of the other times, but because her argument fits your anti-brexit narrative, it suddenly suits you. How convenient. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You're up against a brick wall on this Damien. It's not about verifiable facts. The "my team's better than your team" debate has been around for centuries but shows no sign of going away.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Think you overestimate the power of this forum and its influence Mick ! The country is very divided, hard line 'no deal' Brexiters will make it increasingly so.

This is outrageous ! She is our strong and stable glorious leader, who says 'Brexit means Brexit' ( which means sausages ?? ;) ).

It is interesting how little the Russians care what she says, not only is it down to her weakness but how inconsequential we are. This will be more so outside the EU; divide and conquer is Putin's modus operandi.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The country was divided badly during and since the referendum. A close vote either way meant it was always going to remain so, we knew that in the final weeks of the campaign. The polling evidence we have suggests little movement either. It's always around 50/50 for right/wrong to leave.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The only people who dispute this are - unsurprisingly - Putin's posters. I'm sure his troll farms posted on both sides of the debate.
A patriot like me - who loves his country despite the turmoil at the moment -wants to heal the wounds.
And I say once again to Mick - who I'm sure is a fellow patriotic Brit who would share a few beers with me in other circumstances - let's not fall for Putin's tricks and let's put the great into Britain.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As long as Mick gets his round in first I'll join you ! :beer:

However there does seem to be an element on the right wing affluent leave side that enjoys and actively seeks division. Maybe they see it as a way of increasingly dividing society in their favour.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Divide and rule is a cynical but practical approach from the governing elite whether your name is Putin, Trump or Rees-Mogg.
Looking forward to Mick naming the pub. Hope it's English ale he's buying and not some American bitter or Eurofizz lager! :beer:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

People are prone to division when they don't empathise with the other side, there is a reason it's always worse and angrier on the internet when you can't see the person on the other end.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Totally agree and like most of the country I've plenty of friends who voted each way. That doesn't make either side bad people.

I just don't see things as simple left v right. That was probably correct in the 1970s but things change.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Are you watching British workers wanted, there experience is different, perhaps they're lying to make a show! Besides which imo one of the benefits of leaving is that they do leave in droves, what was the point of all this is nothing changes dramatically

And let's be honest if the Americans and ourselves had stuck to sending out some emails to influence elections there might not only be a few more people alive in the world it'd mean we could occupy the moral high ground to

The great in Britain is short for greater Brittany which is the last thing we want to be doing

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Fortunately, everything I've read suggests that's an urban myth. Rightly or wrongly, Wikipedia notes "The Greco-Egyptian scientist Ptolemy referred to the larger island as great Britain (μεγάλη Βρεττανία megale Brettania) and to Ireland as little Britain (μικρὰ Βρεττανία mikra Brettania) in his work Almagest (147–148 AD).

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not massively fussed tbh but I suspect it goes back to the Celts and their six main territories

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No real surprise here. Despite the protestations of Liam Fox et al, the EU has consistently said there will be no a la carte deal for the UK.
https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...n-canada-deal/

https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...n-canada-deal/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Appears the successful attempt to "take back sovereignty" may have been illegally funded.:rolleyes:
https://news.sky.com/story/vote-leav...nding-11136068

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It won't change the vote Andrew.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And nor should it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I doubt that's entered anyone's head, Pip.
But it's a bit like a drug-cheating athlete.
It doesn't look good.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Perhaps if we acknowledge it happens, we can try and prevent it happening again.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Remember, these things can be used against you as well as for you.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No chance for it to happen again if the vote is unchangeable and affects generations to come.

See our Brexit bill has doubled and it still probably won't be enough..... Still as long as we've got our bankrupt country back :rolleyes:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/theres...illion-2017-11

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Using Information Warfare can happen at General Elections as well...

It’s about disruption and disturbance, making the country more disunited, thus weaker.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well Putin has certainly successfully done that both here and in the US. Fair play to Theresa, she did have a bit of a go at them last week, but we're an amusing irrelevance these days. I blame Dave trying to save his own skin for the mess we're in.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Exactly and Russia don't care about sides either. It's not unfeasible that they'll start working try to boost the Remain side at the most possible time for the Government. This is a wider threat that any one vote.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Russians are masters of chess...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Bit more on those investigations into the Brexit campaigners.
https://www.ft.com/content/d79b5872-...1-794ce08b24dc

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Do you think he's trying to thwart brexit :rofl: the amount of times I've heard that recently, I wonder if people parroting that phrase know how ridiculous they sound.

In other news some of the main European agencies housed here have left, drugs have gone Amsterdam, appropriate and banking to Paris, inappropriate imo but meh

Not convinced by the divorce bill latest either, imo we should only agree to it on the condition we can just leave it and walk away if we don't like the final terms.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Remember those days when David Davis said that the EMA and EBA didn't need to leave London? - https://www.ft.com/content/72ead180-...1-d5f7e0cd0a16

Ah well. Surprised Dublin didn't get the EMA office considering the size of the pharma industry in Ireland.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

If my wife wanted to divorce me, her lawyers would rip me a new one without breaking sweat.

So why don't the 'politicians' trying to negotiate simply pull out and send the 'professionals' in.

We'd probably come out of this owning half of Europe :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Shock horror, EU agencies leave the U.K. because um, we’re leaving the EU. I hope they shut the door on the way out.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't think anyone is surprised. It's just a shame for the 1000 or so people who've lost their jobs and local companies that serviced them.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The EU could take them with them or, still have them where they are, but the EU is just playing another tactic, a ‘we’ll show you’, kind of attitude. Screw them (the EU that is).

I see Nicola Sturgeon, was quick to thank us Brexiteers for their departure. Up yours too, Nicola. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Shouldn't EU Agencies be in an EU country?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes it's awful. Who could possibly have predicted that. If only I'd known I'd have voted to stay in the EU. I demand a second referendum...* :rolleyes:



* and then a third if the result remains the same.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Apparently, up to 81% of the EMA staff currently based in London would be willing to move to Amsterdam (link) which is good news for both the EMA and its' staff. Of course, it's bad news for the MHRA who is going to need some regulators sharpish if we leave the EMA (and its' cost and ECJ arbitration)

Of course we have some staff already but EMA has had overview on drugs for the following conditions;

• human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) or acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS);
• cancer;
• diabetes;
• neurodegenerative diseases;
• auto-immune and other immune dysfunctions;
• viral diseases.

Plus

• medicines derived from biotechnology processes, such as genetic engineering;
• advanced-therapy medicines, such as gene-therapy, somatic cell-therapy or tissue-engineered medicines;
• orphan medicines (medicines for rare diseases);
• veterinary medicines for use as growth or yield enhancers.

But hey, as Michael Gove said '..people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms'

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The current thinking is we'll pay to use somes of these agencies on an ongoing biases because there are so many different areas to cover, it will be expensive to set-up and they're largely if not completely be in-tune with their EU counterparts anyway.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That does seem to be the likely outcome for this and a number of other agencies which is eminently sensible. Other non-EU countries do already of course. However, there may be some hard sells;

• We will need to pay for it out of our £350m per week
• The arbitration bodies are often the ECJ
• We may have no say in the running of these agencies (this is the case for the EMA with Norway, Iceland, etc.)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Approximately 76,000 room nights in hotels alone (which is just short of 1% of hotel business in London). That is just those two agencies - it will be a lot more when the financial sector start to move out.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Absolutely, so if this is some lame attempt by the EU, to lay some of kind of guilt trip on us Brexiteers, it does not with me.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Wasn't that long ago that a few folks around here, the Labour party and elsewhere were telling us that the City could bugger off en masse. Now apparently shedding however many banking jobs to the EU is terrible for the UK and a reason for us not to leave the EU. Odd how perspectives can be changed to suit an argument.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Quite and many who wanted of the risk of losing chucks of one of the highest tax bases would be bad are now far more relaxed about it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I assume we have moved on from the EBA which was formed as a regulatory body after the global financial crisis to increase transparency and perform stress tests of the banking system.

I fail to see how this is an EU guilt trip action here. The EU said it couldn’t have EU agencies in non-EU countries in the event of Brexit and now it won’t. Job done, 1000+ high end jobs gone. It’s what we voted for

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm afraid people voted for £350 million a week for the NHS, and getting rid of those 'bleeding immigrants', neither of which is going to happen. Job losses to other countries though, yes, plenty of them...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Jobs will come and jobs will go just like they always did before the EU and will afterwards. It's called economic reality and job losses are not always due to Brexit any more than job creation is always down to the EU.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...ment-than-ever

Let's not be positive about anything which contradicts project fear though when we can seize on every negative and lay its cause at the door of Brexit.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Some Remainers love to paint a Fake and gloomier picture, such as the poster just before you, who has got most thing wrong so far, including the recent news that totally blew his argument to shreds and this is that there has NOT been a mass exodus of EU Nationals as he says there has and he will continue to get things wrong, going forward.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Remember when the Brexit press called the loss of the Medicines Agency and the European Banking Authority to Europe Project Fear? It was all fake and gloom they told us. David Davis' Brexit department even added that the fate of the agencies is still up for negotiation. That was back in April.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/334805...nment-insists/

Well, it's Project Reality now.
"Amsterdam, Paris are new homes for the agencies which will be moving from London"
https://www.wsj.com/articles/amsterd...ove-1511200612

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You’re a day behind the times. Already mentioned posts before yours. They are EU agencies. Their relocation is inevitable.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Very interesting article on the lead-in to the confrontation between the EU and UK next month. A very long article but really worth reading.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and...g-read-brexit/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Saw this idea on Twitter. Perfect!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Say it was a suggestion, obviously don't say it's a suggestion at the time, make out it's defiantly going to happen and then when it's time to deliver then say it was only a suggestion

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ahh that red bus argument that it was a suggestion rears it’s ugly head again. Get over it FFS! :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But the loss of the EMA and EBA are 100% irrefutably caused by Brexit.

My focus is pretty much on the EMA as it is relevant to my job (banking is not my thing) Medicines regulation is a highly specialised and highly paid role. Losing employees with that knowledge from this country constitutes a 'brain drain' just when we need to be thinking about bringing these skills 'in house'. Employees of agencies like the EMA come from the pharmaceutical industry and vice versa.

My second point is, would we as a country be better off not being in the EMA? Almost certainly no but. as I said before, will be be willing to pay for access and accept ECJ rulings in this area?

The press release on inward investment is indeed great news. 2% growth in investment is steady but positive. I hope that the fact that 40% of the FDI was from the EU will not be affected down the line (source of number - https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/natio...t-and-industry)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

All these extra jobs taken up, to some of the hardline Remainers, it shouldn’t be happening, all the lies the Remain camp told and they go on and on about the side of the Red bus, all the gloomy predictions. All of it was fear mongering BS!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The fear mongering was just a suggestion, not to be taken literally

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You mistake me for someone who does. I have never taken what some of the Remainers have said, literally and I never will.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, critical thinking, analysing information, producing hypotheses and being able to change opinions in light of new evidence are what raises us above the beasts and is a great thing.

I for one always try to get more than one source of evidence and try and avoid sources that are a) biased and b) unacceptable to some. So, for example, I always avoid quoting articles from The Guardian. I would also put The Independent, The Express, The Mail and Order Order in that bucket. There are usually elements of truth but the spin and cherry picking is clear. I would however quote sources from academia (London School of Economics as an example) or organisations that drive public policy (ONS and OECD for example)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It was annouced in the paper - Labour MP Angela Rayner celebrates being a grandmother at 37

Ok so **** happens and you can't help what sometimes happens with your kids but the article goes on.



Mrs Rayner has previously spoken about how being pregnant with her first child at the age of 16 "saved" her, at a time when she left school in Stockport, Greater Manchester, with no qualifications.

Earlier this year, the former care worker and trade union officer told an event at the Labour Party conference: "Even though getting pregnant at 16 and having no qualifications is not the best start for anybody, you've got to understand where my life was.

"It actually saved me from where I could have been because I had a little person to look after.

"I wanted to prove that I could be a good mum and somebody was finally going to love me as much as I deserved to be loved and that's what pregnancy was for me."

Mrs Rayner was elected to Parliament in 2015 and was promoted to Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet within little more than a year, following a string of resignations from Labour's frontbench in June 2016.

She is frequently touted as a possible future Labour leader.


Says it all really about Labour. Had a kid at 16, No qualifications and is tipped to be a future leader.

God help us all

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No qualifications doesn't mean she's not up to the job. I didn't know there were any particular educational requirements for leaders of political parties. John Major did a correspondence course in banking - and he didn't do that badly for himself.


Cheers


Dave

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Young girls can get pregnant from all walks of life and are not consigned to one certain group of people.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Because this is all about Labour party. No wonder the likes of DA can't get the numbers right, this is the reasons why the country went broke under the last labour and this is the reason why they spend spend spend and don't know how to invest.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I do not vote labour, and never will, but I dont really see the relevance of "had a kid at 16".

She seems a better choice than what they have atm.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sounds like someone whose at least had a difference experience than the usual Eton > Oxbridge (PPE naturally) > Special Advisor > MP route.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yeah, I think we had the discussion between education and intelligence a few pages back...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Its not really relevant to Brexit anyway, so back to the topic please.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So, 2030 for a trade deal with India and we must accept more immigrants from that country reports the Telegraph. Of course, everyone who voted leave knew this anyway.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-warns-senior/

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ----------

A sad loss, Glasgow and Liverpool really benefited from being European capitals of culture. Something else the Brexiters said we wouldn't lose out on but Brexit means Brexit as the country is learning.
https://news.sky.com/story/eu-blocks...rexit-11140057

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We are not leaving Europe, and they are still European cities and they still will be after we leave the EU, there is no reason to block their entries other than the EU being a bunch of halfwits, yet again, this shows what a bunch of spoiled pillocks they are in the EU and thank goodness we are leaving! My vote to leave becomes ever validated, with every passing day, post referendum!!!!!!!!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It is a European Commission award but Istanbul have won it before on the bias they 'might' join the EU. Turkey is a long way from every being admitted into the EU so if they qualify on that criteria we should qualify as having been a member.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh dear, we'd better stay in the EU then as everyone we want to do a trade deal with will dictate their own terms and we'll have no say in the matter whatsoever. :rolleyes:

Of course in the real world, trade negotiations are a 2 way street and both sides will have their initial objectives and the end result will be somewhere in the middle. If the EU had done that when Cameron called on them last year, there'd have been no Brexit but that's the EU for you. They demand flexibility and concessions but offer few if any. They're the ones who need to get real!

---------- Post added at 21:36 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------


:tu:

If the UK was behaving like this there's a good many remainers who'd be whining about how inflexible and arrogant we are... :spin:

How long before someone pops up telling us that the UK will be banned from the Eurovision Song Contest?... :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That said it does appear the cities were warned this was possible: https://twitter.com/mattholehouse

The government seems to have given assurances to them that contradicted the EU's own advice about how likely it is that this would happen.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well we can't live without all those crumbs from the EU's table so let's just overturn the referendum result then and be done with it... ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Actually it looks like some in the Government told the Department for Culture not to bid, they did so anyway, councils paid out money promoting their bids.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The worrying thing is what similar assurances the government has given to companies like Nissan that turn out to be worthless.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ah yes the other big lie, 77 million Turks making their way to Britain as we speak :rolleyes:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/66...sa-free-travel


We don't know what assurances were given to the Japanese car manufacturers as they're too sensitive to be revealed to the public

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Like most things they feed the public scraps of obfuscated information dressed up with a miniscule of truth.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

More like the public would be horrified to learn the details of this sweetheart deal...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

On the city of culture thing, a cursory search shows that in the past, non-EU potential candidates were considered for the city of culture, hence Istanbul and Stavanger being allowed. However, the rules have changed so only EU, EU candidate and EFTA/EEA countries will be considered. This was approved by the European Parliament (73 UK MEPs) and Council (Theresa May for the UK)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So you agree despite your alliance with the EU, that the EU are being nothing but spiteful.

But sod those imbeciles. Let the UK do our own competition and call their competition FAKE!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Err, the new framework was decided in 2014, two years before the referendum

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Lol. Well batted! :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

With a bit of luck, we won't be participating in Eurovision any more either! This Brexit thing just keeps on giving! :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ha ha, even the Ozzies can't escape participation in Eurovision!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This does not err, remove my earlier view that they are behaving in a spiteful manner.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ----------

But not really. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Lol, you are joking aren't you? It really isn't that hard! :dunce:
2014: Britain and the rest of the EU agree that only EU member states, EU candidate states and EFTA/EEA countries will be considered.
2016: One country decides to leave the EU thus disqualifying itself from the European City of Culture competition.
So, is the EU being spiteful in not allowing countries like New Zealand to participate? :D:D:D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The EU is spiteful, in terms of their decision against the UK, there, I just said it again, want it a third time?

The EU is spiteful!!!

And for the record, New Zealand is not a European Country, last time I looked, how can it even begin to win 'European City of Culture', when it's on the other side of the World, so no it is not being spiteful, bit of a poor analogy there Andrew.