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-   -   Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered ! (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704414)

Mr K 30-03-2017 12:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35892406)
Since we've paid nett many £100b's into the EU there must be a share of assets that we "own" Perhaps we should demand those back? £50b could pale into insignificance against it. :D
A lot of it comes back to the UK, investing in areas of decline.

Quote:
Small businesses on Britain’s west coast could be left short if we decide to leave the EU, as they receive more economic aid from Brussels than any other part of the UK. Between 2014 and 2020, both Cornwall and West Wales will receive over €1,000 (£800) per person from the EU Structural and Investment Fund - similar to that received by Romania and Bulgaria.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-how-does-thi/

This funding will end. I doubt these areas will be a priority of the Tory Government. More tax cuts for their rich mates will be.

I know of farmers who are very concerned about EU payments stopping. The UK govt. has only guaranteed subsidies till 2020, which since we're supposed to be leaving in 2019, isn't much of a guarantee. It's already turning into countryside of empty holiday homes, which few can afford.

ianch99 30-03-2017 12:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35892392)
It's a claim, there is no way to know which way those who chose not to vote, voted.

Therefore we do not include them.

Here is a Fact.

Leave: 51.9% (generally rounded up to 52%)

Remain: 48.1% (generally rounded down - as less than .5 to 48%)

52 +48 = 100

no 37, 69, 99 or anything else.

Fact

So please, no more claims, what-if's, shoulda-woulda-coulda's it makes you look silly & desperate.

It takes you nowhere, it leads you nowhere, at best I suppose it's a comforter for those who can't bear the fact that the unthinkable - happened. Curse those pesky kids oldsters.
Please, let's get this clear once and for all. This is important as the mandate the PM has to pursue the agreement on how we leave the EU is contingent on the interests of the country as a whole and not the minority who voted to Leave.

The facts are these:

1. The UK voted to leave the EU. That's it. Nothing else was on the Referendum paper put in front of the electorate.
2. 37% of the total electorate voted for the UK to leave the EU. Please see this link if you think I have made this up: http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...nt-information

We need to move on and discuss what are the terms that are in the best interests as the country as a whole and not those that pander to the desires & prejudices of both sides.

1andrew1 30-03-2017 12:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35892417)
A lot of it comes back to the UK, investing in areas of decline.
heero-yuy did say net, so presumably he's excluding the sums that are returned to the UK. But he didn't cite a source.
I think the total net figure is about £160bn. Here's a graph of the contributions.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

Mick 30-03-2017 13:06
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35892415)
Looks like the EU is starting to get nasty it's their way or no way. They could do with a middle man to over see both side's that is neither for or against either side.
The nastiness is expected, but what we need to do, or not do is not look like we need to go cap in hand. The EU position now is to set an example, they don't want other EU member states to follow the UK.

So while it's interesting to note Francois Hollande's response and Angela Merkel's. The French and German Elections are happening this year, we know Hollande is not running again, Angela's open border policy could see her lose. So while these two will be there are at the beginning of the negotiations, the pair of them won't be there (If Merkel loses) towards the latter end of the negotiations.

pip08456 30-03-2017 13:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892424)
Please, let's get this clear once and for all. This is important as the mandate the PM has to pursue the agreement on how we leave the EU is contingent on the interests of the country as a whole and not the minority who voted to Leave.

The facts are these:

1. The UK voted to leave the EU. That's it. Nothing else was on the Referendum paper put in front of the electorate.
2. 37% of the total electorate voted for the UK to leave the EU. Please see this link if you think I have made this up: http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...nt-information

We need to move on and discuss what are the terms that are in the best interests as the country as a whole and not those that pander to the desires & prejudices of both sides.
The facts are these from your own link.


Number of local areas declared: 382/382

Remain: 16,141,241 (48.1%)

Leave: 17,410,742 (51.9%)

Total Electorate: 46,500,001

Turnout: 72.2%

Rejected Ballots: 25,359


Your link, your refence material.

Can we please now move on?

papa smurf 30-03-2017 13:15
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892424)
Please, let's get this clear once and for all. This is important as the mandate the PM has to pursue the agreement on how we leave the EU is contingent on the interests of the country as a whole and not the minority who voted to Leave.

The facts are these:

1. The UK voted to leave the EU. That's it. Nothing else was on the Referendum paper put in front of the electorate.
2. 37% of the total electorate voted for the UK to leave the EU. Please see this link if you think I have made this up: http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...nt-information

We need to move on and discuss what are the terms that are in the best interests as the country as a whole and not those that pander to the desires & prejudices of both sides.
which was a larger number than voted remain

ianch99 30-03-2017 13:28
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35892430)
The facts are these from your own link.


Number of local areas declared: 382/382

Remain: 16,141,241 (48.1%)

Leave: 17,410,742 (51.9%)

Total Electorate: 46,500,001

Turnout: 72.2%

Rejected Ballots: 25,359


Your link, your refence material.

Can we please now move on?
This post just nonsense. You have just pasted the content of the link I cited.

The point I am making and it is a point that you and your "colleagues" consistently and deliberately ignore is that only 37% of the Electorate voted to Leave. FACT.

This FACT is vital when discussing the nature of the deal this country aims to achieve for its citizens, yes, all of its citizens.

I am so tired of repeating this FACT but all the while you are in denial then I guess I will have to remind you of the FACTs.

papa smurf 30-03-2017 13:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892434)
This post just nonsense. You have just pasted the content of the link I cited.

The point I am making and it is a point that you and your "colleagues" consistently and deliberately ignore is that only 37% of the Electorate voted to Leave. FACT.

This FACT is vital when discussing the nature of the deal this country aims to achieve for its citizens, yes, all of its citizens.

I am so tired of repeating this FACT but all the while you are in denial then I guess I will have to remind you of the FACTs.
the FACT is we will get what we are given our input as citizens is pretty much over you aint getting anything special because you backed the loser

pip08456 30-03-2017 13:45
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
As usual your are incorrect and trying to twist the facts to suit you own agenda. You really need to get over it.

Out of a total of 46,500,001 registered voters 72.2% voted (total 33,577,342),
the majority of those voted leave.

Damien 30-03-2017 13:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35892429)
The nastiness is expected, but what we need to do, or not do is not look like we need to go cap in hand. The EU position now is to set an example, they don't want other EU member states to follow the UK.

So while it's interesting to note Francois Hollande's response and Angela Merkel's. The French and German Elections are happening this year, we know Hollande is not running again, Angela's open border policy could see her lose. So while these two will be there are at the beginning of the negotiations, the pair of them won't be there (If Merkel loses) towards the latter end of the negotiations.
The current closest contenders to them are very pro-EU though.

1andrew1 30-03-2017 13:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Stepping aside from debates about numbers, I think the over-arching principle is that the negotiations need to consider everyone's views and not pander to those of the strong Brexiters like Nigel Farage and Paul Dacre.

Osem 30-03-2017 13:57
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35892433)
which was a larger number than voted remain
Really? :confused:

So you're claiming that the IN/OUT vote was held, the result was perfectly clear, more people voted out than in, Brexit was triggered accordingly and it's somehow fair that the losing side aren't having their views treaty as a top priority at this stage?

:D

papa smurf 30-03-2017 14:06
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892443)
Stepping aside from debates about numbers, I think the over-arching principle is that the negotiations need to consider everyone's views and not pander to those of the strong Brexiters like Nigel Farage and Paul Dacre.
is it normal to pander to the losers then :shrug: if so whats the point in winning

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35892444)
Really? :confused:

So you're claiming that the IN/OUT vote was held, the result was perfectly clear, more people voted out than in, Brexit was triggered accordingly and it's somehow fair that the losing side aren't having their views treaty as a top priority at this stage?

:D
well yes :)

1andrew1 30-03-2017 14:06
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35892445)
is it normal to pander to the losers then :shrug: if so whats the point in winning
I'm not sure what your point is. It's a vote to leave the EU, it's not a vote to follow the more extreme policies of Farage or Paul Dacre. If it was the other way round, 52% remain, it wouldn't be a mandate for the UK to join the Euro or Shengen area. The closeness of the vote matters; a 67% vote would give the winning side carte blanche but not 52% v 48%.

papa smurf 30-03-2017 14:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892447)
I'm not sure what your point is. It's a vote to leave the EU, it's not a vote to follow the more extreme policies of Farage or Paul Dacre. If it was the other way round, 52% remain, it wouldn't be a mandate for the UK to join the Euro or Shengen area. The closeness of the vote matters; a 67% vote would give the winning side carte blanche but not 52% v 48%.
is cilla gona jump out singing surprise surprise - whats the weather like over there in the lesser eu

Osem 30-03-2017 14:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35892441)
As usual your are incorrect and trying to twist the facts to suit you own agenda. You really need to get over it.

Out of a total of 46,500,001 registered voters 72.2% voted (total 33,577,342),
the majority of those voted leave.
Yeah but... :)

There's a way out for those who so vehemently want to remain part of the EU and can't imagine life outside it - move there before it's too late. That way everyone will be happy. I'd really hate to think that they'd all remain in the UK and spend the rest of their lives challenging the referendum outcome and missing out on the wonders that lie just across the channel.

I reckon those who're certain that life in the UK's going to be awful will have already left (or set plans to do so in motion) which makes me wonder why so many strident remainers are still here. Maybe the truth is they're not quite sure... :shrug:

:D

passingbat 30-03-2017 14:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892443)
Stepping aside from debates about numbers, I think the over-arching principle is that the negotiations need to consider everyone's views and not pander to those of the strong Brexiters like Nigel Farage and Paul Dacre.

I do wonder if you listened to the referendum debate.


The Leave aims were clear.


Bring back Sovereignty.
Control of immigration
Control of taxes
Control of laws
The ability to do trade deals with other Nations.


People voted by a majority for that package. If people were not aware that Leave encompassed all that, then they weren't listening properly. That may sound harsh, but it is the reality.


That is what should now be implemented.

Osem 30-03-2017 14:25
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892451)
I do wonder if you listened to the referendum debate.


The Leave aims were clear.


Bring back Sovereignty.
Control of immigration
Control of taxes
Control of laws
The ability to do trade deals with other Nations.


People voted by a majority for that package. If people were not aware that Leave encompassed all that, then they weren't listening properly. That may sound harsh, but it is the reality.


That is what should now be implemented.
:tu:

I am so tired of repeating these FACTS but all the while some folks are still in denial about the outcome of the referendum I guess I will have to keep reminding them. :D

1andrew1 30-03-2017 14:28
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35892453)
:tu:

I am so tired of repeating these FACTS but all the while some folks are still in denial about the outcome of the referendum I guess I will have to keep reminding them. :D
Not really - I've been saying we're all leavers now since the result.

Mick 30-03-2017 14:36
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892455)
Not really - I've been saying we're all leavers now since the result.
But you're still insisting that we keep one foot in the door. No thanks, leave means leave. Not halves in or let's keep the door ajar.

1andrew1 30-03-2017 14:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892451)
I do wonder if you listened to the referendum debate.


The Leave aims were clear.


Bring back Sovereignty.
Control of immigration
Control of taxes
Control of laws
The ability to do trade deals with other Nations.


People voted by a majority for that package. If people were not aware that Leave encompassed all that, then they weren't listening properly. That may sound harsh, but it is the reality.


That is what should now be implemented.
Did you read the Government's White Paper that acknowledged we had sovereignty?

People voted in or out, nothing more and nothing less. The leave campaign promised many, many things including extra money for the NHS but none of those things were on the ballot paper.

We've had this debate before and Damien did his best to explain it. If he wasn't able to get his point across back then, then I know I won't be able to now.

Kursk 30-03-2017 14:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892455)
Not really - I've been saying we're all leavers now since the result.
Which is what Mick said so moving on, The Great Repeal Bill - is this a potential stumbling block? Is it best to just enshrine all eu law into British law and amend it later if needs be rather than tinker with it along the way?

1andrew1 30-03-2017 14:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35892457)
But you're still insisting that we keep one foot in the door. No thanks, leave means leave. Not halves in or let's keep the door ajar.
I'm not insisting on anything - sorry if it came across this way.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892459)
Which is what Mick said so moving on, The Great Repeal Bill - is this a potential stumbling block? Is it best to just enshrine all eu law into British law and amend it later if needs be rather than tinker with it along the way?
It was great to see Mick's post as it didn't matter how many times I said we're all leavers, people didn't get it.
The legislation will have to be enshrined into British law to start off with. How much it changes after this depends on the deal we do with the EU. If we want to trade as barrier-free as possible, then we will have to have harmonised legislation or we will be at an unfair advantage to them. But if we are willing to accept barriers, then we can alter it more. We will need to keep our options open by not amending it at first.

Paul 30-03-2017 14:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892434)
The point I am making and it is a point that you and your "colleagues" consistently and deliberately ignore is that only 37% of the Electorate voted to Leave. FACT.
The point is irrelevant, only 34% voted to remain, and since 37 is greater than 34, we are leaving.

(FACT).

techguyone 30-03-2017 14:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892434)
This post just nonsense. You have just pasted the content of the link I cited.

The point I am making and it is a point that you and your "colleagues" consistently and deliberately ignore is that only 37% of the Electorate voted to Leave. FACT.

This FACT is vital when discussing the nature of the deal this country aims to achieve for its citizens, yes, all of its citizens.

I am so tired of repeating this FACT but all the while you are in denial then I guess I will have to remind you of the FACTs.
You sound more like a campaign group with you 'mandate' nonsense, why don't you go and join the SNP they all speak like that too.

We won, you lost, cry tears of rage if you must, but you can't ignore it or post 37% drivel like it means anything.

Kursk 30-03-2017 14:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892460)
The legislation will have to be enshrined into British law to start off with. How much it changes after this depends on the deal we do with the EU. If we want to trade as barrier-free as possible, then we will have to have harmonised legislation or we will be at an unfair advantage to them. But if we are willing to accept barriers, then we can alter it more. We will need to keep our options open by not amending it at first.
Good sense will prevail. Taking back control is straigtforward enough (provided there are enough civil servants); it's the face-saving and ego problems that are the real threat. The posturing is already underway.

1andrew1 30-03-2017 15:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892467)
Good sense will prevail. Taking back control is straigtforward enough (provided there are enough civil servants); it's the face-saving and ego problems that are the real threat. The posturing is already underway.
If you follow the business world, you can work out what to expect. So we can expect tariff-free imports and exports of goods but services which require more harmonised legislation look unlikely to be accepted. That's why the banks are moving thousands of jobs to the EU.
The issue is that manufactured goods are Germany's strengths and services the UK's.

pip08456 30-03-2017 15:15
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892459)
Which is what Mick said so moving on, The Great Repeal Bill - is this a potential stumbling block? Is it best to just enshrine all eu law into British law and amend it later if needs be rather than tinker with it along the way?
Yes

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...at-repeal-bill

By yes I was answering the second part of you post so NO it will not be a stumbling block. It has to happen to extricate ourselves.

Osem 30-03-2017 16:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35892457)
But you're still insisting that we keep one foot in the door. No thanks, leave means leave. Not halves in or let's keep the door ajar.
Exactly. It's really quite clear what the intention was and those who couldn't decide and left the vote to others can't complain about being left out if they don't now like the result.

The negotiations will clearly try to achieve the best for the UK but it's impossible to reconcile the desires of many a remainer for us to stay part of the single market without staying in the EU so I'm afraid they're going to have to accept the fact just like the Scots have to accept that the EU isn't going to wave them straight into the club if they vote for independence.

Mr K 30-03-2017 17:06
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35892457)
But you're still insisting that we keep one foot in the door. No thanks, leave means leave. Not halves in or let's keep the door ajar.
That' s not really what Mother Theresa's letter implied, seven times in her 6 page letter she mentioned a 'deep and special relationship'. Take out a couple of lines and it could almost have been an application letter to join !

passingbat 30-03-2017 17:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892458)
Did you read the Government's White Paper that acknowledged we had sovereignty?

People voted in or out, nothing more and nothing less. The leave campaign promised many, many things including extra money for the NHS
We've had this debate before and Damien did his best to explain it. If he wasn't able to get his point across back then, then I know I won't be able to now.

The things I mentioned were the core principles of Leave. Anyone who voted should have understood that. I Understood the core principles of Remain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892458)
but none of those things were on the ballot paper

I've posted this before, as an example, addressing this issue. People who didn't understand the core aims of Leave, weren't paying attention to the debate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dghdvVbtowM

1andrew1 30-03-2017 17:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35892514)
That' s not really what Mother Theresa's letter implied, seven times in her 6 page letter she mentioned a 'deep and special relationship'. Take out a couple of lines and it could almost have been an application letter to join !
Exactly. I think some people try and project their beliefs into what the Government is doing when the available evidence suggests otherwise. I guess it's what makes us human.

Meanwhile, the Government needs to get a move on with resolving the rights of EU citizens who are living and working here. EU nationals already being denied mortgages "due to Brexit" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7657941.html

papa smurf 30-03-2017 18:01
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892520)
Exactly. I think some people try and project their beliefs into what the Government is doing when the available evidence suggests otherwise. I guess it's what makes us human.

Meanwhile, the Government needs to get a move on with resolving the rights of EU citizens who are living and working here. EU nationals already being denied mortgages "due to Brexit" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7657941.html
is the lesser eu doing any thing to protect our citizens living over there

passingbat 30-03-2017 18:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892520)

Meanwhile, the Government needs to get a move on with resolving the rights of EU citizens who are living and working here. EU nationals already being denied mortgages "due to Brexit" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7657941.html


The EU needs to get a move on... The British government offered to get it sorted several weeks ago, and were rebuffed by the EU.


BTW, the Leave campaign wanted EU Citizens in the UK to have automatic rights, straight after the Referendum.

Mick 30-03-2017 18:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35892514)
That' s not really what Mother Theresa's letter implied, seven times in her 6 page letter she mentioned a 'deep and special relationship'. Take out a couple of lines and it could almost have been an application letter to join !
This is where again, you have issues interpreting stuff and getting it totally wrong.

We're leaving the EU but we are still in Europe, hence the basis to still have some relationship but not one where a corrupted union tells us how to run our borders, laws, taxes and the odd silly laws that have come about over the years from the EU.

Finally, I find it disrespectful of you mocking the dead, it is Theresa May, so pack it in. :td:

1andrew1 30-03-2017 18:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892525)
BTW, the Leave campaign wanted EU Citizens in the UK to have automatic rights, straight after the Referendum.
They made lots of promises but this is one promise they should have carried out unilaterally.

Mr K 30-03-2017 18:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35892530)
This is where again, you have issues interpreting stuff and getting it totally wrong.

We're leaving the EU but we are still in Europe, hence the basis to still have some relationship but not one where a corrupted union tells us how to run our borders, laws, taxes and the odd silly laws that have come about over the years from the EU.

Finally, I find it disrespectful of you mocking the dead, it is Theresa May, so pack it in. :td:
Mrs May to you Michael ;)

Osem 30-03-2017 19:33
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892525)
The EU needs to get a move on... The British government offered to get it sorted several weeks ago, and were rebuffed by the EU.


BTW, the Leave campaign wanted EU Citizens in the UK to have automatic rights, straight after the Referendum.
Don't let facts get in the way of yet another anti-government rant eh? :D

martyh 30-03-2017 19:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892525)
The EU needs to get a move on... The British government offered to get it sorted several weeks ago, and were rebuffed by the EU.


BTW, the Leave campaign wanted EU Citizens in the UK to have automatic rights, straight after the Referendum.
and rightly so ,several weeks ago we hadn't told the EU we were leaving .GB jumped the gun .It may seem pedantic but in the world of national diplomacy there is a specific order to follow and in this case officially telling the EU we are leaving is always going to precede any deals done for the rights of EU citizens

1andrew1 30-03-2017 20:43
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
No surprise to anyone who's followed what France and Germany were saying in the months after the Brexit vote. Not sure what the UK can do about this so I'd welcome hearing any negotiating tips that will change the EU 27's minds.

Quote:
European leaders will formally reject British demands to hold trade talks at the same time as negotiating the terms of the UK’s ‘divorce’ from the EU, leaving both sides heading for an early stand-off in the Brexit talks.

The hardline EU response will be outlined in draft negotiating guidelines that will be distributed by the European Council to the remaining 27 member states at a closed-door meeting in Brussels.

Theresa May’s request that the terms of the future UK-EU partnership be negotiated “alongside” the terms of the divorce – rejected by the German chancellor Angela Merkel on Wednesday - was shot down again on Thursday, this time by the outgoing French president, Francois Hollande.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...xit-timetable/

papa smurf 30-03-2017 20:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892557)
No surprise to anyone who's followed what France and Germany were saying in the months after the Brexit vote. Not sure what the UK can do about this so I'd welcome hearing any negotiating tips that will change the EU 27's minds.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...xit-timetable/
they'll both be out of a job soon so their opinion counts for nowt , we have lots of money they want lets try hard ball -no deal no dough .

Gavin78 30-03-2017 20:51
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35892558)
they'll both be out of a job soon so their opinion counts for nowt , we have lots of money they want lets try hard ball -no deal no dough .
That is totally true the EU Just wants the UK for it's cash they are not bothered if we are part of the brother hood as we were always sidelined anyway.

Cameron saying we have a voice and can make changes within the EU showed how little influance we had.

passingbat 30-03-2017 21:26
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892531)
They made lots of promises but this is one promise they should have carried out unilaterally.

Blame the Leave leaders who wanted it, but couldn't because they were not leading the Government (PM)


Blame the Government who offered to do it quickly but were rebuffed by the EU.


Where is your condemnation of the EU?

Osem 30-03-2017 21:34
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892563)
Blame the Leave leaders who wanted it, but couldn't because they were not leading the Government (PM)


Blame the Government who offered to do it quickly but were rebuffed by the EU.


Where is your condemnation of the EU?
I'm beginning to think CF has been infiltrated by Jean Claude Junker...

:D

1andrew1 30-03-2017 22:19
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892563)
Blame the Leave leaders who wanted it, but couldn't because they were not leading the Government (PM)

Blame the Government who offered to do it quickly but were rebuffed by the EU.

Where is your condemnation of the EU?
It can be done unilaterally so I blame the government for not doing it. Simples.

Nothing to do with the EU 27. The EU can't decide this on their behalf, it's not the United States of Europe by a long chalk yet though the UK leaving the EU may result in such a thing being more likely.

On a lighter note, I found this rather amusing. :D

All hail Article 50 Day – let's celebrate with a bendy banana slide in Liam Fox Park and public shaming of Remoaners

Kursk 30-03-2017 23:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
And another thing: Nigel Farage should be knighted.

papa smurf 30-03-2017 23:15
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892578)
And another thing: Nigel Farage should be knighted.
or sainthood bestowed upon him [our saviour ]

1andrew1 30-03-2017 23:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892578)
And another thing: Nigel Farage should be knighted.
Kursk, you're ahead of the game sir. In this case, by 2 days :D:D:D

ianch99 30-03-2017 23:52
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35892441)
As usual your are incorrect and trying to twist the facts to suit you own agenda. You really need to get over it.

Out of a total of 46,500,001 registered voters 72.2% voted (total 33,577,342),
the majority of those voted leave.
No this is important. There is no twisting here. Any idiot can do the simple mathematics. You need to accept the truth and move on.

We are all Leaving now so lets make sure we get a deal that caters for whole countries interests.

Surely even you cannot want a deal that alienates half the country. The word is compromise ..

---------- Post added at 22:48 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892447)
I'm not sure what your point is. It's a vote to leave the EU, it's not a vote to follow the more extreme policies of Farage or Paul Dacre. If it was the other way round, 52% remain, it wouldn't be a mandate for the UK to join the Euro or Shengen area. The closeness of the vote matters; a 67% vote would give the winning side carte blanche but not 52% v 48%.
This is precisely the point yet some are too blind to see it. There is no Winners or Losers here. To paint this black and white picture would be something only a child would do.

The real world is more complex. May has to be shrewd and play to the UK's strengths but compromise where it is in the UK's long terms interests.

She must also take a view to the security of Europe and the threat of Putin's Russia. Putin was estactic that we voted to leave the EU. It plays directly into his hands of divide and conquer.

Only by standing together can Europe hope to call Putin's bluff.

---------- Post added at 22:52 ---------- Previous post was at 22:48 ----------

passingbat 31-03-2017 00:28
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35892514)
a 'deep and special relationship'. Take out a couple of lines and it could almost have been an application letter to join !

A 'deep and special relationship' is fine between two sovereign nations, or a sovereign nation and the federal states of Europe. Surely that is to be encouraged? The key word is Sovereignty. Sovereignty, and all the decisions flows from it, is, in a nutshell, what Brexit was all about.

1andrew1 31-03-2017 00:44
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892588)
A 'deep and special relationship' is fine between two sovereign nations, or a sovereign nation and the federal states of Europe. Surely that is to be encouraged? The key word is Sovereignty. Sovereignty, and all the decisions flows from it, is, in a nutshell, what Brexit was all about.
Except, as your Government has informed you, we do have sovereignty.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7559556.html

Think I may have found one advantage of Brexit! A cheaper way to drown our sorrows!
Quote:
Return of the booze cruise: ferry chiefs plan to slash wine and beer prices after Britain leaves the EU.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...e-beer-prices/

passingbat 31-03-2017 05:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892589)
;)
Except, as your Government has informed you, we do have sovereignty.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7559556.html
/
That is nonsense in any practicle sense. Linking to another Independent article
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7559066.html

Quote:
2. Taking control of our own laws – We will take control of our own statute book and bring an end to the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union in the UK.
Any country that seeds parts of ongoing law making, to a multinational court is not Soveriegn. End of.

Any rational thinking person defies sovereignty as:

Control of Borders
Control of taxes
Control of laws

martyh 31-03-2017 07:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892598)
That is nonsense in any practicle sense. Linking to another Independent article
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7559066.html

Any country that seeds parts of ongoing law making, to a multinational court is not Soveriegn. End of.

Any rational thinking person defies sovereignty as:

Control of Borders
Control of taxes
Control of laws
Utter claptrap you been reading the Mail too much:rolleyes: .The very fact we had a referendum (put into law by Parliament) and then (Parliament) gave May permission to invoke A50 proves we haven't lost our sovereignty .Parliament always maintained it's authority over Europe ,Parliament allows European law to be enacted in the UK and could have withdrawn that permission at any time simply by revoking the European Communities act 1972

---------- Post added at 06:47 ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892584)
No this is important. There is no twisting here. Any idiot can do the simple mathematics. You need to accept the truth and move on.

We are all Leaving now so lets make sure we get a deal that caters for whole countries interests.

Surely even you cannot want a deal that alienates half the country. The word is compromise ..
The problem is that a lot of Brexiters on this forum don't actually realise how slim the margin was,all they see is 52% vs 48% which in no way reflects the will of the country as a whole .They don't actually want to admit that the will of the people wasn't represented at all by the result

passingbat 31-03-2017 08:23
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35892601)
Utter claptrap you been reading the Mail too much:rolleyes: .

You are entitled to your opinion. BTW, I barely ever read the Mail.


I can see the hidden plan behind increasingly eroded national sovereignty. That is why many liberal (one world, living in peace and harmony; UN Agenda 2030) thinking people hate Brexit and Trump.

Mr K 31-03-2017 08:53
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892604)
You are entitled to your opinion. BTW, I barely ever read the Mail.


I can see the hidden plan behind increasingly eroded national sovereignty. That is why many liberal (one world, living in peace and harmony; UN Agenda 2030) thinking people hate Brexit and Trump.
Wanting peace and harmony? I'll plead guilty to that.

Increasingly people seem to seek out confrontation for the sake of it. There must be losers and we must 'beat you' , and be as nasty as possible in the process (this forum is a perfect example of that !). I blame an increasing Americanisation of the UK and reality TV (e.g the Apprentice, wonder who was behind that? ;) ) It's the US that's eroding our 'Britishness' , not the EU.

papa smurf 31-03-2017 10:07
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
[QUOTE=ianch99;35892584]No this is important. There is no twisting here. Any idiot can do the simple mathematics. You need to accept the truth and move on.

and can any idiot see which side won and accept it ?.


here we go again ?

Remoaners threaten a campaign to grind Parliament to a halt over David Davis's Great Repeal Bill as Gina Miller plots ANOTHER court challenge

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4ctBIGPlZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Mr K 31-03-2017 10:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
[QUOTE=papa smurf;35892612]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892584)
No this is important. There is no twisting here. Any idiot can do the simple mathematics. You need to accept the truth and move on.

and can any idiot see which side won and accept it ?.


here we go again ?

Remoaners threaten a campaign to grind Parliament to a halt over David Davis's Great Repeal Bill as Gina Miller plots ANOTHER court challenge

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4ctBIGPlZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
The Daily Fail has found a plot ! Stop the presses, spread more hate among it's salivating followers !

The Govt. has to stay within the law, what's wrong with that? They can always change the law if they really want...

Osem 31-03-2017 10:50
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
[QUOTE=papa smurf;35892612]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892584)
No this is important. There is no twisting here. Any idiot can do the simple mathematics. You need to accept the truth and move on.

and can any idiot see which side won and accept it ?.


here we go again ?

Remoaners threaten a campaign to grind Parliament to a halt over David Davis's Great Repeal Bill as Gina Miller plots ANOTHER court challenge

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4ctBIGPlZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
It's all being done for the best of reasons though. All those thoroughly open-minded, magnanimous in defeat, folk are just trying to help the majority who voted for Bexit - FACT - see the gross error of our ways and we should thank them. They know we're making a big mistake and that what the UK really needed was to stay in the EU and be gradually subsumed into the EU amoeba. Only in this manner, under the glorious leadership of the Brussels elite can the UK survive as a first world nation...

:rolleyes:

Meanwhile back in the real world, Tusk's warning that the talks would be 'confrontational at times' is the reality but I wonder what the reaction of the usual suspects like Farron would have been had the PM chosen to use those words in her letter. Aggressive, arrogant, bullying, intimidatory maybe?...

ianch99 31-03-2017 12:46
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35892601)
The problem is that a lot of Brexiters on this forum don't actually realise how slim the margin was,all they see is 52% vs 48% which in no way reflects the will of the country as a whole .They don't actually want to admit that the will of the people wasn't represented at all by the result
You are correct. As Andrew pointed out, if Remain had won and then started moves to replace the Pound with Euro for example, they would be outraged.

The problem is that they are afraid that some of the more extreme Brexit scenarios may be taken away from them during the next 2 years.

1andrew1 31-03-2017 12:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892626)
You are correct. As Andrew pointed out, if Remain had won and then started moves to replace the Pound with Euro for example, they would be outraged.

The problem is that they are afraid that some of the more extreme Brexit scenarios may be taken away from them during the next 2 years.
Let's not forget that they also said we could remain in the single market too, ie have our cake and eat it.

Most people I know were marginal about the EU and came down reluctantly on one side or the neither. Few were madly pro-EU and few were madly leaving. The saw the strengths and weaknesses of the EU but didn't want to do anything drastic.

passingbat 31-03-2017 13:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892631)
Let's not forget that they also said we could remain in the single market too, ie have our cake and eat it.

Nope, we're out of the single market. Trying to negotiate a free trade deal. There is a difference.

1andrew1 31-03-2017 13:33
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892639)
Nope, we're out of the single market. Trying to negotiate a free trade deal. There is a difference.
Agreed, but the single market is what David Davis promised.

papa smurf 31-03-2017 13:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892645)
Agreed, but the single market is what David Davis promised.
i though he said we could pay for access to it .

ianch99 31-03-2017 14:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892631)
Let's not forget that they also said we could remain in the single market too, ie have our cake and eat it.

Most people I know were marginal about the EU and came down reluctantly on one side or the neither. Few were madly pro-EU and few were madly leaving. The saw the strengths and weaknesses of the EU but didn't want to do anything drastic.
As you say, unlike a few extremists, there wasn't extreme hatred of the EU on the part of the vast majority of the country.

Most people are pragmatic and if there is a deal that favours retaining some of the previous arrangements and this is demonstrably in the best interests of the country then this is more than likely what will happen.

The PM need to resist the calls from the right wing zealots and keep an open mind ..

---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892639)
Nope, we're out of the single market. Trying to negotiate a free trade deal. There is a difference.
The EU is clearing delaying any trade deal talks until the terms of the divorce are agreed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39453338

Quote:
The EU has outlined its strategy for Brexit negotiations, suggesting talks on a trade deal could begin once "sufficient progress" is made on a separation settlement with the UK.

passingbat 31-03-2017 14:33
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892648)


The EU is clearing delaying any trade deal talks until the terms of the divorce are agreed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39453338

It appears to be the principles of how it is calculated, not the final amount. Trade talks could possibly start in October.

1andrew1 31-03-2017 14:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35892650)
It appears to be the principles of how it is calculated, not the final amount. Trade talks could possibly start in October.
Yes, that's what I've read too.

ianch99 31-03-2017 15:04
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892652)
Yes, that's what I've read too.
Agreed but it seems that "Trade deal talks could begin once 'sufficient progress' is made" on the divorce settlement:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...eu-watch-live/

This headline from the above is also interesting?

Quote:
EU will ban UK from cutting tax or scrapping regulation

Angela Merkel will insist that the U.K. rules out tax dumping as part of any trade deal struck during Brexit negotiations, a senior official from the German economy ministry has said.

"We don't want to erect barriers to trade, but we need fair dealings," German Deputy Economy Minister Matthias Machnig said in a Bloomberg Television interview.

He said:

We can only conclude a fair trade agreement with advantages for both sides if there are reasonable framework conditions in the areas of tax, regulation and the like.

A race to the bottom in tax and regulation matters would make trade relations difficult.

1andrew1 31-03-2017 15:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35892655)
Agreed but it seems that "Trade deal talks could begin once 'sufficient progress' is made" on the divorce settlement:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...eu-watch-live/

This headline from the above is also interesting?
Yes. I think some smaller economies like Ireland and Singapore can function as low-tax locations but I've read that the UK can't because of its size. I've not heard Theresa May mention this option recently so suggest it's off the cards.
The issue will always be with any trading partners including of course the EU - the better the trade deal, the more things like movement of people and equality of taxation and regulations are required.

Pierre 31-03-2017 19:57
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892645)
Agreed, but the single market is what David Davis promised.
No he didn't

ianch99 31-03-2017 20:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35892691)
No he didn't
That's because the word "promise" and the "politician" are rarely compatible :)

However it was an "aim":

Brexit Secretary David Davis admits deal with 'exact same benefits' is not a promise

1andrew1 01-04-2017 12:12
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Once apparently concerning point in the EU's negotiating document is this passage about Gibraltar.
Quote:
Finally, Madrid has got what it has wanted since joining the Union 30 years ago. “No agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom,” the document says, which means Spain now wields veto power over Gibraltar – something which the Foreign Office has always resisted. It is a major diplomatic defeat for Britain.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7659821.html

What can the UK do? Can we buy Spain off financially?

nomadking 01-04-2017 12:22
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Any veto works both ways. We can insist that any deal include Gibraltar. Is the rest of the EU going to want to block a deal simply because Spain throws a strop over Gibraltar?

It is amazing how nearly each day, the rest of the EU shows its true colours and why we should be well away from them.

papa smurf 01-04-2017 12:34
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35892753)
Any veto works both ways. We can insist that any deal include Gibraltar. Is the rest of the EU going to want to block a deal simply because Spain throws a strop over Gibraltar?

It is amazing how nearly each day, the rest of the EU shows its true colours and why we should be well away from them.


:tu:

whats next a ban from eurovision :shocked:

1andrew1 01-04-2017 12:37
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35892753)
Any veto works both ways. We can insist that any deal include Gibraltar. Is the rest of the EU going to want to block a deal simply because Spain throws a strop over Gibraltar?

It is amazing how nearly each day, the rest of the EU shows its true colours and why we should be well away from them.
But don't all 27 remaining member states have to agree? So even if the other 26 agree, if Spain doesn't then there are problems.

Mick 01-04-2017 12:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35892753)
Any veto works both ways. We can insist that any deal include Gibraltar. Is the rest of the EU going to want to block a deal simply because Spain throws a strop over Gibraltar?

It is amazing how nearly each day, the rest of the EU shows its true colours and why we should be well away from them.
My thoughts exactly, the sovereignty of 'The Rock' should not be used as a bargaining chip. The EU is showing how desperate they are.

passingbat 01-04-2017 12:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35892753)

It is amazing how nearly each day, the rest of the EU shows its true colours and why we should be well away from them.

Quite true.


If they keep playing games like this, we should just walk away from the negotiations and just leave.

nomadking 01-04-2017 12:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892758)
But don't all 27 remaining member states have to agree? So even if the other 26 agree, if Spain doesn't then there are problems.
The point is that the issue of Gibraltar has been made one of the core principles of the EUs negotiations.
Quote:
In its draft Brexit negotiating guidelines, the European Council identified future arrangements for Gibraltar as one of its 26 core principles.It wrote: "After the UK leaves the union, no agreement between the EU and the UK may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without agreement between Spain and the UK."
No mention of ensuring that French Territories are to be included in any deal.

Kursk 01-04-2017 12:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Oh no, I hope they don't send an Armada :disturbd:

Osem 01-04-2017 13:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
All this speculation and extrapolation from the opening gambits of both sides. The EU isn't going to allow x, y or z blah, blah, blah. There are 2 sides to this negotiation and the EU can't dictate to the UK any more than the UK can it. Any negotiator worthy of the name is going to start the process playing hardball and my only surprise at any of this is that not everyone here seems able to grasp that basic fact. Just about every time one Eurocrat or another makes a claim about not compromising on something or other, the usual suspects here pitch up again with their usual predictions of doom yet when the UK does the same they whine about the arrogance of the UK trying to dictate to the EU. For me it exemplifies just how far they are willing to put the other side's interests ahead of our own and I'm wondering what they feel they'll gain as a result. Maybe the worst possible outcome for the UK is what they want because, having lost the vote, they just can't bear the thought that the other side might have been right all along. :shrug:

Kursk 01-04-2017 13:12
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Looks like we might need to withdraw British troops from Poland and Estonia to defend British territory at Gibraltar ;)

heero_yuy 01-04-2017 13:21
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
According to a report in The Times, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier, is preparing a list of up to €60bn of liabilities. Correspondingly, government officials are understood to be drawing up an asset list to which it believes that the UK could be entitled to a share of.

According to an analysis by the think-tank Bruegel, the EU had assets worth around €153.7bn at the end of 2015.
CIPFA stated that while the EU will request that the UK meets a fair share of the liabilities accrued since 1973, the UK has also been a major net funder for assets accrued over the same period.
Source

Let's have our share back. :)

Osem 01-04-2017 13:22
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35892770)
Source

Let's have our share back. :)
Sheer arrogance!!! How dare you suggest we ask for anything!!! We should think ourselves lucky to have been the EU's second largest net contributor all these years and should be made to pay heavily for daring to leave...


:rolleyes:

denphone 01-04-2017 13:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892769)
Looks like we might need to withdraw British troops from Poland and Estonia to defend British territory at Gibraltar ;)
It might be quite a struggle to cobble together enough troops to defend her.;)

Kursk 01-04-2017 13:36
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35892774)
It might be quite a struggle to cobble together enough troops to defend her.;)
About half a dozen would be enough :)

I've been trying to think up a punchy strap line for the negotiations and the best I can come up with is Liberté, égalité, fraternité.

It's a previously used but long forgotten phrase.

papa smurf 01-04-2017 13:43
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892775)
About half a dozen would be enough :)

I've been trying to think up a punchy strap line for the negotiations and the best I can come up with is Liberté, égalité, fraternité.

It's a previously used but long forgotten phrase.
how about
cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war

Kursk 01-04-2017 13:46
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35892776)
how about
cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war
Yep, or that :D

papa smurf 01-04-2017 13:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35892774)
It might be quite a struggle to cobble together enough troops to defend her.;)
patriots are available to crush the enemy under foot ;)

denphone 01-04-2017 13:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35892778)
patriots are available to crush the enemy under foot ;)
That rules you out then.;):D

1andrew1 01-04-2017 14:15
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892775)
I've been trying to think up a punchy strap line for the negotiations and the best I can come up with is Liberté, égalité, fraternité.

It's a previously used but long forgotten phrase.
Don't call us, we'll call you! :D

Kursk 01-04-2017 14:30
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892781)
Don't call us, we'll call you! :D
Actually, I like your suggestion the best but I thought you might have been a little less hardline with our EU friends :D

papa smurf 01-04-2017 14:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35892779)
That rules you out then.;):D
if we send the fleet i'll bring my boat and my lads paintball gun ;)

1andrew1 01-04-2017 15:02
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Although it didn't go down well with some of their more sensitive readers, this was a great April fool by the Daily Express!
Quote:
BREXIT BOMBSHELL: EU to demand EVERY British number plate is RECALLED by 2019
EUROPEAN transport chiefs claim "safety of road users is at risk" if number plates are not changed in move which could cost YOU £35 per vehicle.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/786...-RECALLED-2019
https://www.indy100.com/article/brex...cebook-7661446

pip08456 01-04-2017 15:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Why is it some just cannot realise what the word negotiation means?

Each side will start from a position of what they see as strength. Discussion will continue until such time agreement is met or until time runs out.

The EU won't let time run out as, if it does we just walk away and they get nothing. Better to come to agreement.

1andrew1 01-04-2017 16:05
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35892792)
The EU won't let time run out as, if it does we just walk away and they get nothing. Better to come to agreement.
Monies owed can't just be walked away from. You don't save £50bn by waiting for the egg timer to count down two years!

papa smurf 01-04-2017 16:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892793)
Monies owed can't just be walked away from. You don't save £50bn by waiting for the egg timer to count down two years!
where did that figure come from

Kursk 01-04-2017 16:15
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35892795)
where did that figure come from
The EU made it up. Any money 'owed' can be discussed in due course. Parallelism not sequentialism is the term bandied about.

papa smurf 01-04-2017 16:24
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892797)
The EU made it up. Any money 'owed' can be discussed in due course. Parallelism not sequentialism is the term bandied about.
so they just make up a figure and the europhiles just want to hand it over ,nice bargaining strategy what about the ten trillion they owe us ;)

1andrew1 01-04-2017 16:25
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35892797)
The EU made it up. Any money 'owed' can be discussed in due course. Parallelism not sequentialism is the term bandied about.
"The EU won't let time run out as, if it does we just walk away and they get nothing. " The point is this is incorrect, whether it's 50p or £50bn, waiting for time to run out won't save us money.

In other news, Comedy Central has a new video out. :D
https://www.facebook.com/comedycentraluk/?fref=nf

Kursk 01-04-2017 16:35
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35892798)
so they just make up a figure and the europhiles just want to hand it over ,nice bargaining strategy what about the ten trillion they owe us ;)
Stop being unreasonable :). As Farron said, we should take them to tusk over this figure. His pun, not mine :sleep:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892799)
"The EU won't let time run out as, if it does we just walk away and they get nothing. " The point is this is incorrect, whether it's 50p or £50bn, waiting for time to run out won't save us money.
I think it's the 'walking away' bit that does it :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892799)
In other news, Comedy Central has a new video out. :D
https://www.facebook.com/comedycentraluk/?fref=nf
:D

pip08456 01-04-2017 16:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35892793)
Monies owed can't just be walked away from. You don't save £50bn by waiting for the egg timer to count down two years!
The House of Lords beg to differ and that's full of remoaners.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/774...-pay-EU-Brexit


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