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-   -   U.S President: Donald Trump (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704412)

Mr Banana 17-03-2017 06:53
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Apparently the snake Spicer has been told it was GCHQ who tapped Trump Towers?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39300191

Damien 17-03-2017 08:28
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35890415)
Apparently the snake Spicer has been told it was GCHQ who tapped Trump Towers?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39300191
Turns out it was a pundit on Fox who made the first accusation: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...im-trump-obama

Smells a bit like an attempt to justify Trump after the backlash and lack of evidence. Either way GCHQ have strongly denied it, it's a very serious accusation to make so again time for them to show it.

A warning to May as well that Trump is more than capable of throwing the UK under the bus if it helps him deflect one bad news story.

1andrew1 17-03-2017 09:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Next potential distraction ruse from Trump's Russian situation: Military action "an option" against North Korea if it elevates weapons programme threat, US secretary of state says.
It may not be distraction technique, but the current US Government has cried wolf so many times that "distraction" is the first thought that springs to mind!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39301842

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890410)
Still inclined to say judge after 4/8 years : Obama did rack up a huge deficit in the 8 years he was in office, in fact he doubled it.
I agree waiting four years makes sense but the signs aren't good. What I don't get is the huge hike in military spending if he's going to take a more restrained approach on military actions than his predecessors and try and foster better relations with Russia.

Mr K 17-03-2017 10:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
We should cancel his State visit immediately. How dare he slander Her Majesty's Intelligence Services ! (Not that they could get any intelligence out of Trump anyway...)

Damien 17-03-2017 12:22
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
The White House has apologized according to The Sun: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/311323...-donald-trump/

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN16O1E7

Quote:
Britain has received assurances from the United States that allegations the GCHQ intelligence agency helped former President Barack Obama eavesdrop on Donald Trump will not be repeated, a spokesman for Prime Minister Theresa May said on Friday.
Crazy....

1andrew1 17-03-2017 12:56
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890363)
What kind of intelligence agency would NOT need a court order to spy on a US citizen ?

A foreign one.

Obama Administration only needed to ask an ally to do their bidding, no litigation come backs. Now, which foreign entity outside US has the capability? Clue: Re-arrange these letters CQGH.
Mick, do you agree now that Fox News and Trump's PR dude Spicer were wrong to accuse GCHQ of spying on Trump?

Damien 17-03-2017 13:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Given the speed at which the White House apologized and said it won't happen again it makes me think we do have a lot of info and threatened to release it :D

Mick 17-03-2017 13:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890447)
Mick, do you agree now that Fox News and Trump's PR dude Spicer were wrong to accuse GCHQ of spying on Trump?
What do you mean, now?

Nothing has changed in my opinion which warrants any kind of view change from me. People can easily deny stuff. I can deny I did not have anything to eat yesterday, does not mean it is true and people should not blindly follow everything said by officials as true.

Never heard of plausible deniability ?

I have already said, more than once and I completely agree, Trump needs to show his hand instead of keeping people guessing and speculating and having others making claims for him.

1andrew1 17-03-2017 13:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890451)
What do you mean, now?

Nothing has changed in my opinion which warrants any kind of view change from me. People can easily deny stuff. I can deny I did not have anything to eat yesterday, does not mean it is true and people should not blindly follow everything said by officials as true.

Never heard of plausible deniability ?

I have already said, more than once and I completely agree, Trump needs to show his hand instead of keeping people guessing and speculating and having others making claims for him.
I can't understand why you don't get the following point:
If the White House was going to hand over evidence that GCHQ had spied on Trump in the next couple of days* then why would it today state that it will not repeat the allegations?
* 20/3/17 is the deadline for evidence to the Senate Committee investigating the phone-tapping allegations.

Scary 17-03-2017 14:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Starting to think that Mick either works for trump or is Spicer in disguise

Mick 17-03-2017 14:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary (Post 35890464)
Starting to think that Mick either works for trump or is Spicer in disguise
Well I don't: I am entitled to a differing opinion AND I am also entitled to sit on the fence and not follow stuff so blindly. :rolleyes:

Mr K 17-03-2017 15:05
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890467)
Well I don't: I am entitled to a differing opinion AND I am also entitled to sit on the fence and not follow stuff so blindly. :rolleyes:
Following stuff blindly is the problem Mick.

As for sitting on the fence.... :D

1andrew1 17-03-2017 15:23
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890467)
Well I don't: I am entitled to a differing opinion AND I am also entitled to sit on the fence and not follow stuff so blindly. :rolleyes:
Mick, I doubt you can be accused by anyone of sitting on the fence! You are firmly behind Trump's wall. :D

Mick 17-03-2017 15:36
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890468)
Following stuff blindly is the problem Mick.
Not by me it's not.

---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890471)
Mick, I doubt you can be accused by anyone of sitting on the fence! You are firmly behind Trump's wall. :D
Rubbish. I just don't side with all the negative hysteria on him, nor do I chase all the negative stories on him like you and others do on here.

All I cared about was that Hillary Clinton lost, she did and that satisfies me, greatly.

1andrew1 17-03-2017 15:38
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890475)
Rubbish. I just don't side with all the negative hysteria on him, nor do I chase all the negative stories on him like you and others do on here.
All I cared about was that Hillary Clinton lost, she did and that satisfies me, greatly.
OK. But returning to my question, if the White House was going to hand over evidence that GCHQ had spied on Trump in the next couple of days* then why would it today state that it will not repeat the allegations?
* 20/3/17 is the deadline for evidence to the Senate Committee investigating the phone-tapping allegations.

Mick 17-03-2017 15:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890477)
OK. But returning to my question, if the White House was going to hand over evidence that GCHQ had spied on Trump in the next couple of days* then why would it today state that it will not repeat the allegations?
* 20/3/17 is the deadline for evidence to the Senate Committee investigating the phone-tapping allegations.
Who said they was going to hand over any such evidence ?

All Sean Spicer did yesterday was quote, what a news commentator/anchor had accused British Intelligence Services of doing.

Damien 17-03-2017 15:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890478)
Who said they was going to hand over any such evidence ?.
Not sure if anyone promised it but the White House asked congress to investigate to which congress asked for evidence or at least somewhere to start. Hence the deadline. Additionally some Republican congressmen are saying they'll withhold approving some members of the cabinet until the WH provides that evidence.

1andrew1 17-03-2017 16:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890479)
Not sure if anyone promised it but the White House asked congress to investigate to which congress asked for evidence or at least somewhere to start. Hence the deadline. Additionally some Republican congressmen are saying they'll withhold approving some members of the cabinet until the WH provides that evidence.
Spicer was on his fact-free diet again yesterday:
Quote:
Asked whether the White House would ensure such evidence was made available, Mr Spicer sought to dodge the question. When reporters continued to press him, he said “I feel very confident” that such information would be made available.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7630196.html

Hugh 17-03-2017 17:26
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Perhaps the White House and the President should only tweet things that have been validated, not repeat things they have heard on TV.

You know, what with the 17 US Intelligence Agencies, with a +$50 billion a year budget, perhaps they might supply them with, oh, I don't know, daily briefings....

RizzyKing 17-03-2017 17:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
There's clearly a media bias but that doesn't get highlighted or resolved with silliness of the sort we have had for the last couple of months and I'm curious if this was someone else blathering out stuff as Trump and his group have if Trump would have accepted it as fact with no substantiating evidence. I doubt he would and that is what irks me most about what's going on he's behaving in a way he'd never have accepted from anyone else but expects us to just accept it and go along with it. I too am very happy that Clinton lost she would have been a disaster likely for all of us and i am glad one of the usual politicos didn't win but I'm getting a bit tired of this dog and pony show that's currently pervasive in the white house.

The U.S.A is too big a player to have this going on and while domestically it may be a distraction and little more right now it's got to be eroding confidence internationally in the leadership and that is a big concern. Trump needs to start appearing competent and able to do the job if nothing else.

1andrew1 17-03-2017 18:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890467)
Well I don't: I am entitled to a differing opinion AND I am also entitled to sit on the fence and not follow stuff so blindly. :rolleyes:
It's important to note the statement that we don't spy on the US:
Quote:
The PM's spokesman said it would not be possible for GCHQ to spy on Mr Trump as both countries are members of the Five Eyes alliance, a joint intelligence co-operation agreement which also includes Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
"I would add, just as a matter of fact, with the Five Eyes pact, we cannot use each other's capabilities to circumvent laws," he said.
"It's a situation that simply wouldn't arise."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7635786.html

Damien 17-03-2017 18:48
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Well apparently the White House is now saying they never apologised to No 10 so either they're lying or No 10 is lying and we're now back to the WH citing Fox News that we hacked Trump!

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

Trump has also repeated the accusation that Obama hacked his phone (unless it was a joke, only read the text).

passingbat 17-03-2017 19:05
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890500)


Trump has also repeated the accusation that Obama hacked his phone (unless it was a joke, only read the text).

I think he was referring to Merkel's phone being taped (he motioned to Merkel when answering)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7HIFCwnPXQ


Starts at 1:17 in that particular bit around 1:40 in

1andrew1 17-03-2017 19:18
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890500)
Trump has also repeated the accusation that Obama hacked his phone (unless it was a joke, only read the text).
Quote:
Financial Times
An unrepentant Donald Trump refused to retract accusations the UK spied on his presidential campaign last year, saying the White House was only repeating reports from a “talented legal mind” when it publicly aired the allegations.
Despite efforts by senior administration officials to placate an angry ally by reassuring Downing Street it would not repeat accusations, Mr Trump showed no regret about the actions of Sean Spicer, the White House spokesman who read out the allegations during his televised briefing on Thursday.
“We said nothing,” Mr Trump said at a news conference. “All we did is quote a very talented legal mind,” citing a legal analyst on Fox News. Brushing aside potential damage to its closest intelligence relationship, Mr Spicer added: “I don’t think we regret anything.”
The hardline stance came despite a “private conversation” between Sir Kim Darroch, Britain’s ambassador to Washington, and Mr Spicer on Thursday and a separate phone call between the two countries’ national security advisers that were characterised as full of “regret and contrition” by those briefed on the exchanges.
https://www.ft.com/content/6ec3dfca-...a-903b21361b43 "Trump unrepentant in wake of UK spying accusations"

Mr K 17-03-2017 20:22
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Can a US president be impeached for being insane, or is that a loophole in the Constitution?

'Not repeat the accusation' very big of them, we should grow a pair and demand a total retraction, or he doesn't​ get to visit Queenie (bet she's really looking forward​ to it too...)

TheDaddy 17-03-2017 20:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890513)
Can a US president be impeached for being insane, or is that a loophole in the Constitution?

'Not repeat the accusation' very big of them, we should grow a pair and demand a total retraction, or he doesn't​ get to visit Queenie (bet she's really looking forward​ to it too...)
One of the amendments covers this, might be, might be 26 of the top of my head and it nearly happened to reagan twice apparently, once when he was shot, understandably and again after iran contra when he got depressed and lazy

Or it might be the 25th amendment...

1andrew1 17-03-2017 20:55
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890513)
Can a US president be impeached for being insane, or is that a loophole in the Constitution?

'Not repeat the accusation' very big of them, we should grow a pair and demand a total retraction, or he doesn't​ get to visit Queenie (bet she's really looking forward​ to it too...)
Well, if we're still gagging to be at the front of the queue for a trade deal with the US, we'd better keep quiet. :(

Mick 17-03-2017 23:13
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890513)
'Not repeat the accusation' very big of them, we should grow a pair and demand a total retraction, or he doesn't​ get to visit Queenie (bet she's really looking forward​ to it too...)
They did not make the accusation in the first place, FFS, open up your eyes. :eek: :dozey:

Hugh 18-03-2017 09:03
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890537)
They did not make the accusation in the first place, FFS, open up your eyes. :eek: :dozey:
Why repeat an unfounded accusation in the first place?

Trump is just doubling down when challenged - he is the President of the USA, not a 6 year old; he needs to start behaving like a President, not a bad tempered child who lashes out when disagreed with.

Spicer said they had evidence - none has been given to the Committees who asked for it (repeating something someone said on TV is not evidence).

Mr K 18-03-2017 09:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890537)
They did not make the accusation in the first place, FFS, open up your eyes. :eek: :dozey:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39300191
Quote:
The US has agreed not to repeat claims the UK's communications intelligence agency wiretapped Donald Trump during the presidential election campaign
Opening your eyes up is top advice Mick.
Using Fox News as Donald's 'intell' doesn't seem to be working out. Doh!

1andrew1 18-03-2017 10:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890561)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39300191

Opening your eyes up is top advice Mick.
Using Fox News as Donald's 'intell' doesn't seem to be working out. Doh!
Trump's strategy to date of repeating lies that suit him (like Obama's birth country) and decrying negative news as "fake news" has served him well. As we've seen from forum posters here in the UK, there's plenty of people who will happily follow his lead on issues when the evidence points in the opposite direction.

Why do intelligent people do this? People have invested a lot of emotion and reputation in Trump and if they stop defending him, then they need to rethink their entire beliefs system.... and that's a big deal. Easier to go along with another Trump lie than to rethink their whole beliefs. They can convince themselves that they are not jumping to conclusions but waiting for the evidence. Trump labelling reliable sources as biased aids this approach as they will just ignore a lot of the evidence. When the contradicting evidence does arrive, if people haven't forgotten about it, Trump will find a way of spinning it away, usually in a passive-aggressive manner. For example, his comments on Obama's birth certificate that suggested some people still felt it didn't look real.

So far, this approach has worked well for Trump so he has continued to deploy it. But this wire-tapping allegation seems to be one step too far. He's dragging in the UK, he's dragging in the Constitution, he's dragging in a popular ex-President and he's dragging in the security services. He's up to his neck in it and for once, I can't see an easy way out for him.

Mick 18-03-2017 11:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890561)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/39300191


Opening your eyes up is top advice Mick.
Using Fox News as Donald's 'intell' doesn't seem to be working out. Doh!
I do not need to open my eyes because I am right!!! You open your eyes, they were quoting Fox News, they did not make the accusations themselves.

Trump has made NO opinion on the matter or any such public statement blaming GCHQ, if you can find it, be my guest.

If you read the bloody statement from GCHQ yesterday, they made no mention of the White House blaming them, they quoted the Fox commentator as making the accusation. So again Mr K, you're wrong, like so many other things, like Brexit for instance. :rolleyes: :dozey:

1andrew1 18-03-2017 11:39
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890575)
I do not need to open my eyes because I am right!!! You open your eyes, they were quoting Fox News, they did not make the accusations themselves.

Trump has made NO opinion on the matter or any such public statement blaming GCHQ, if you can find it, be my guest.

If you read the bloody statement from GCHQ yesterday, they made no mention of the White House blaming them, they quoted the Fox commentator as making the accusation. So again Mr K, you're wrong, like so many other things, like Brexit for instance. :rolleyes: :dozey:
Why the bad language Mick, that doesn't make for good debate?
Trump did say "I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!"
That's Trump expressing an opinion isn't it?
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...863360?lang=en

Damien 18-03-2017 12:27
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Mick is referring to the specific allegation that GCHQ tapped the phone. It's true that Trump never made that accusation himself, it was Fox News and even then a pundit and not a journalist (it wasn't presented as news). However the White House did magnify the accusation way beyond what it deserved by repeating it in an official press conference. They should apologise for that.

1andrew1 18-03-2017 12:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890592)
Mick is referring to the specific allegation that GCHQ tapped the phone. It's true that Trump never made that accusation himself, it was Fox News and even then a pundit and not a journalist (it wasn't presented as news). However the White House did magnify the accusation way beyond what it deserved by repeating it in an official press conference. They should apologise for that.
Understand.
Isn't Melania Trump suing the Daily Mail for reporting allegations another media source made against her? If so, he should know better.
Do Presidents not get an induction course? :D

Hugh 18-03-2017 15:25
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890592)
Mick is referring to the specific allegation that GCHQ tapped the phone. It's true that Trump never made that accusation himself, it was Fox News and even then a pundit and not a journalist (it wasn't presented as news). However the White House did magnify the accusation way beyond what it deserved by repeating it in an official press conference. They should apologise for that.
Interestingly, only last month the President stated
Quote:
“I'm against the people that make up stories and make up sources,” Trump said Friday at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in National Harbor, Md. “They shouldn't be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody's name.”
This month, the White House spokesman quoted someone who used anonymous sources
Quote:
Mr Spicer had earlier repeated claims that Mr Obama used GCHQ to spy on Mr Trump before he became president.

"He’s able to get it and there’s no American fingerprints on it," Mr Spicer said of the intelligence supposedly provided to Mr Obama by Britain.

"Three intelligence sources have informed Fox News that President Obama went outside the chain of command – he didn't use the NSA, he didn't use the CIA, he didn't use the FBI and he didn't use the Department of Justice – he used GCHQ."

Mick 18-03-2017 18:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35890619)
Interestingly, only last month the President stated This month, the White House spokesman quoted someone who used anonymous sources
So that's two different people saying two different things... Not one person.

Hugh 18-03-2017 19:27
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890641)
So that's two different people saying two different things... Not one person.
Really?

Spicer is the President's official Press Secretary and Communications Director, putting forward the President's views and position on matters - are you trying to say that Spicer doesn't do what his boss, the President, says?

Press Secretary
Quote:
The Press Office gathers and disseminates official White House information while the Office of Communications is in the persuasion business where it targets and reaches audiences in an effort to persuade them to provide personal, electoral, and policy support for the President.....

...the Press Secretary having three constituents to respond to, but one boss: the President...

...As the official spokesperson for an administration, he or she is the person who presents Presidential information to many audiences, including the public, his special publics in Washington, and governments of nations around the globe.

People look to the President for comment and it is the Press Secretary who most often presents it. While the President may be seen daily in official settings making formal presentations, it is the Press Secretary who daily delivers for the White House official comment and response to events and criticism as well as delivers messages through individual reporters and news organizations.

The Press Secretary’s role involves meeting the needs of reporters in order to be an effective spokesperson for the President.

TheDaddy 18-03-2017 21:33
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35890560)
Why repeat an unfounded accusation in the first place?

Trump is just doubling down when challenged - he is the President of the USA, not a 6 year old; he needs to start behaving like a President, not a bad tempered child who lashes out when disagreed with.

Spicer said they had evidence - none has been given to the Committees who asked for it (repeating something someone said on TV is not evidence).
It's bizarre, throw your most special of allies under the bus to deflect a few awkward questions that were of your own making. I hoped he was going to be amusing but God knows how he'll react when something serious happens, think I'll adapt and adopt GCHQ'S advice that he's rediculous and ignore him for a while.

1andrew1 18-03-2017 22:50
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35890652)
It's bizarre, throw your most special of allies under the bus to deflect a few awkward questions that were of your own making. I hoped he was going to be amusing but God knows how he'll react when something serious happens, think I'll adapt and adopt GCHQ'S advice that he's rediculous and ignore him for a while.
When Trump said we were at the front of the queue he meant front of the queue for being a scapegoat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890641)
So that's two different people saying two different things... Not one person.
Unbelieveable. They act as one.

Gary L 18-03-2017 23:16
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Trump needs to bloody grow up!

Mick 18-03-2017 23:18
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890658)

Unbelieveable. They act as one.
Rubbish - I stand by my assertion.

---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35890665)
Trump needs to bloody grow up!
Coming from you that's hilarious.:rolleyes:

Gary L 18-03-2017 23:19
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890666)
Coming from you that's hilarious.:rolleyes:
Hi Mick. as grumpy as ever I see.

:rolleyes:

Mick 18-03-2017 23:39
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35890669)
Hi Mick. as grumpy as ever I see.

:rolleyes:
Never been grumpy. Just assertive.

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35890647)
Really?

Spicer is the President's official Press Secretary and Communications Director, putting forward the President's views and position on matters - are you trying to say that Spicer doesn't do what his boss, the President, says?

Press Secretary
Yes really. I don't need a lecture on the duties of the White House, Press Secretary thanks and I repeat Spicer never made the accusation or invented it, he was quoting, you know that thing where you speak of what one person has said elsewhere.

Gary L 18-03-2017 23:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890673)
Never been grumpy. Just assertive.
Yeh. my niece was the same when she was playing shopkeepers with me.

Yeh. have you ever known a president to twitter his thoughts on Twitter. then go back to ruling the world holding a baby's rattle and sucking a dummy. the man's a joke. and it's about time the Americans got rid of him.

1andrew1 18-03-2017 23:53
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890673)
Never been grumpy. Just assertive.

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------



Yes really. I don't need a lecture on the duties of the White House, Press Secretary thanks and I repeat Spicer never made the accusation or invented it, he was quoting, you know that thing where you speak of what one person has said elsewhere.
I think you're missing the point Mick.
Month 1: Trump says people shouldn't be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody's name.
Month 2: Trump's press secretary quoted Judge Andrew Napolitano who used anonymous sources.
Do you honestly not see the problem? :confused:

Damien 19-03-2017 13:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Trump is at his golf resort again: http://postonpolitics.blog.mypalmbea...-coming-today/

TheDaddy 19-03-2017 22:20
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890732)
Wonder what it costs to keep moving that circus around every five minutes

Damien 20-03-2017 15:32
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Hearing going on now. So far the FBI and head of the NSC have said there is no evidence from the FBI or the DOJ of a wiretap of Trump's phone nor of GCHQ doing so. Also the FBI confirmed an investigation of connections between Trump's staff and Russia.

http://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/come...trump?mod=e2tw

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:30 ----------

Quote:
Adm. Mike Rogers, the director of the National Security Agency, refuted the allegation first made by a Fox News commentator and subsequently read aloud by White House spokesman Sean Spicer that the U.S. asked a British intelligence agency to spy on Donald Trump during the presidential campaign.

"I have seen nothing at the NSA that we engaged in such activity," Adm. Rogers said, adding that to ask the British to spy on a U.S. citizen would violate U.S. law.

Fox News said Friday: "Fox News knows of no evidence of any kind that the now-president of the United States was surveilled at any time, in any way, full stop.” In a statement, GCHQ, which rarely comments on media reports, said any claim that the agency was asked to conduct surveillance on Mr. Trump is “utterly ridiculous.”

With the response from Adm. Rogers, all of Mr. Trump's key claims that his predecessor illegally spied on him have been refuted, both by Adm. Rogers and FBI Director James Comey, who earlier said there is no evidence at the FBI or the Department of Justice that Mr. Obama ordered a wiretap on Mr. Trump.

1andrew1 20-03-2017 15:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890887)
Hearing going on now. So far the FBI and head of the NSC have said there is no evidence from the FBI or the DOJ of a wiretap of Trump's phone nor of GCHQ doing so. Also the FBI confirmed an investigation of connections between Trump's staff and Russia.

http://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/come...trump?mod=e2tw
Hopefully, the statements about the phone-tapping will be sufficient for everyone on this forum. I trust we can now all agree that the allegations originally made by Trump about wire-tapping originally and the subsequent GCHQ allegations made on Fox News and then repeated by Trump and Spicer are baseless.

Mick 20-03-2017 15:59
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890887)
Hearing going on now. So far the FBI and head of the NSC have said there is no evidence from the FBI or the DOJ of a wiretap of Trump's phone nor of GCHQ doing so. Also the FBI confirmed an investigation of connections between Trump's staff and Russia.

http://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/come...trump?mod=e2tw

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:30 ----------
A vital bit of detail you have missed out there. The House Intelligence Committee Chairman has said they are not ruling it out.

---------- Post added at 15:59 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890892)
Hopefully, the statements about the phone-tapping will be sufficient for everyone on this forum. I trust we can now all agree that the allegations originally made by Trump about wire-tapping originally and the subsequent GCHQ allegations made on Fox News and then repeated by Trump and Spicer are baseless.
No, not at all because the House Chairman has said they are not ruling it out.... Am I watching a different hearing here or what ? :rolleyes:

Damien 20-03-2017 16:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890893)
A vital bit of detail you have missed out there. The House Intelligence Committee Chairman has said they are not ruling it out.

---------- Post added at 15:59 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------



No, not at all because the House Chairman has said they are not ruling it out.... Am I watching a different hearing here or what ? :rolleyes:
They said they're not ruling out other forms of surveillance. They looked for evidence of a wiretap because that was the specific accusation but they can't rule out other forms of surveillance.

However there was yet been no accusation of that. Trump needs to give evidence already or withdraw it. He won't of course.

---------- Post added at 16:10 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

By the way it's up to Trump to provide some basis or evidence for what he said. Not fire off a random Tweet and then it's fine because everyone else has to prove it's wrong beyond doubt.

1andrew1 20-03-2017 16:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890895)
By the way it's up to Trump to provide some basis or evidence for what he said. Not fire off a random Tweet and then it's fine because everyone else has to prove it's wrong beyond doubt.
I think that's the key point.
The onus of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. The accuser has supplied no evidence by the required deadline.
I could accuse Damien of spying on me or engaging someone to spy on me. He could never prove that he didn't ask someone to spy on me but that doesn't make him guilty. Even if he worked for GCHQ and he opened all their files, I could say that he asked a man down the pub to ask someone else to spy on me.

Mick 20-03-2017 16:30
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890895)

By the way it's up to Trump to provide some basis or evidence for what he said. Not fire off a random Tweet and then it's fine because everyone else has to prove it's wrong beyond doubt.
I am in complete agreement with you here, he does need to show what he has and you will find I have said this a couple of times in this thread.

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890900)
I think that's the key point.
The onus of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. The accuser has supplied no evidence by the required deadline.
I could accuse Damien of spying on me or engaging someone to spy on me. He could never prove that he didn't ask someone to spy on me but that doesn't make him guilty. Even if he worked for GCHQ and he opened all their files, I could say that he asked a man down the pub to ask someone else to spy on me.
You have to ask though, who leaked the information on Michael Flynn speaking to Russian Ambassador about Russia sanctions, they were asking that in that hearing just now, and it clearly points to someone or a set of individuals in the intelligence community that possibly got hold of that information via snooping, you also have to ask how did they get intel on it and which it was then leaked to the press?

Damien 20-03-2017 16:43
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890901)
You have to ask though, who leaked the information on Michael Flynn speaking to Russian Ambassador about Russia sanctions, they were asking that in that hearing just now, and it clearly points to someone or a set of individuals in the intelligence community that possibly got hold of that information via snooping, you also have to ask how did they get intel on it and which it was then leaked to the press?
Well it's a pretty good bet that the Russian Ambassador is having his phoned tapped.

Mr K 20-03-2017 17:05
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890904)
Well it's a pretty good bet that the Russian Ambassador is having his phoned tapped.
Oops, they didn't think of that. It's doing 'thinking' where Team Trump falls down. Tweet first, then keep lying to try and justify it. If that doesn't work, Tweet more crap and call anything else 'fake news', then go golfing.

Can they really keep this up for five years? Five months might be a struggle.....

1andrew1 20-03-2017 18:29
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890901)
I am in complete agreement with you here, he does need to show what he has and you will find I have said this a couple of times in this thread.
That's missing the point. What is your deadline for Trump to produce the evidence? Today? Next month? Next year? The statutory deadline was today and he failed to produce the evidence.
You need to acknowledge what Trump has implicitly acknowledged - there is no evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890901)
You have to ask though, who leaked the information on Michael Flynn speaking to Russian Ambassador about Russia sanctions, they were asking that in that hearing just now, and it clearly points to someone or a set of individuals in the intelligence community that possibly got hold of that information via snooping, you also have to ask how did they get intel on it and which it was then leaked to the press?
This again is another attempt by Trump at distraction. Of course hostile powers' phones are tapped. The leak is far less important than the possible collusion between Trump's team and Russia.
Personally, it's obvious the Russians helped Trump but I doubt any evidence of collusion will be found. And a fresh approach on Russia may be what's needed. But the Russian involvement is worrying.

---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890911)
Oops, they didn't think of that. It's doing 'thinking' where Team Trump falls down. Tweet first, then keep lying to try and justify it. If that doesn't work, Tweet more crap and call anything else 'fake news', then go golfing.

Can they really keep this up for five years? Five months might be a struggle.....
The trouble is, when you get found out, the only solution is to tell a bigger lie than the last one...

Mick 20-03-2017 18:42
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890922)
That's missing the point. What is your deadline for Trump to produce the evidence? Today? Next month? Next year? The statutory deadline was today and he failed to produce the evidence.
You need to acknowledge what Trump has implicitly acknowledged - there is no evidence.
Do not ever tell me what I need to acknowledge: I judge things my way, not yours and no I'm not missing any point.

adzii_nufc 20-03-2017 18:50
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I'm sure James Comey will get to the bottom of Trump and Russia, dishing out some immunity along the way leading to the only people capable of implicating anyone being useless. The James Comey way. :tu:

I'm sure evidence of anything to do with Trump and Russia will surface in plain sight, you know somewhere like Reddit, because the FBI are incapable of actually carrying anything out.

Quote:
The investigation will take several months, if not years, will find no real evidence of a crime, but will be used by the media and the Democrats to attack Trump over and over again, like the Republicans did to Clinton.

In the end, nothing will come of this other than some political theater setting the stage for the next election in which Americans will get to pick between two distasteful candidates.
I remember when he was the most corrupt hack in the world when investigating Clinton, all of a sudden he's now Batman. The hero everyone suddenly needs. Nothing's changed, he's still the most incompetent useless sod involved in this.

Still think it's pretty amazing the US of all countries want to be outraged at potential interference into their elections.

1andrew1 20-03-2017 19:00
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890931)
Do not ever tell me what I need to acknowledge: I judge things my way, not yours and no I'm not missing any point.
If that's the case, what's your deadline for Trump to produce the evidence?

Mick 20-03-2017 19:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890936)
If that's the case, what's your deadline for Trump to produce the evidence?
Have I been promoted to the investigation panel here ? :erm:

Either way, I have no opinion on the matter.

passingbat 20-03-2017 20:15
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Why don't people wait until the end of the process before making judgements? Today was just the first day.

ianch99 20-03-2017 20:25
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
We have a number of posters in this thread who have a thing about hypocrisy ... how about this as an example?

Trump, critic of Obama's golfing, regularly hits the links

Quote:
President Donald Trump, once a critic of his predecessor's golfing, has visited one of his golf courses in Florida -- seemingly to play the sport -- five of the last seven weekends.
Hang on a minute, didn't he say?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/03/7.jpg

Quote:
"I'm going to be working for you; I'm not going to have time to go play golf," Trump said during a 2016 event in Virginia.

Trump made critiquing Obama for golfing a part of his 2016 message.

"I love golf, I think it's one of the greats, but I don't have time," then-President-elect Trump said during a December 2016 rally in Michigan. "He played more golf last year than Tiger Woods. We don't have time for this. We don't have time for this. We have to work."
You can't make it up ... Trump *is* the gift that keeps giving ..

Mr K 20-03-2017 20:34
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35890948)
Why don't people wait until the end of the process before making judgements? Today was just the first day.
No, it's been the 59th day, each one of them a disaster.....
Quote:
Number of tweets 641 Meters of the wall built 0
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-daily-updates

Hugh 20-03-2017 20:50
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
If you look at all the questions FBI Chief Comey can't comment on, you have a pretty good idea of the scope of the FBI's investigation....

1andrew1 20-03-2017 20:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35890954)
If you look at all the questions FBI Chief Comey can't comment on, you have a pretty good idea of the scope of the FBI's investigation....
Exactly. Hopefully Passingbat and pals understand the point you're making. ;)

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890951)
No, it's been the 59th day, each one of them a disaster.....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-daily-updates
Every day has been comedy gold. :D

Damien 20-03-2017 21:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Passingbat is correct in that we should wait until the end of the investigation, so long as the investigation isn't impeded, or until something more concrete emerges. Flynn has gone already.

Manafort might be looked at? The White House was quick to distance themselves from him (he ran the campaign until the Ukraine/Russian links meant he had to step down).

passingbat 20-03-2017 21:28
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35890955)
Exactly. Hopefully Passingbat and pals understand the point you're making. ;)

I have specifically not commented on this, because I really don't know, whether there was Russian collusion or not or whether Trump was under surveillance or not. I'll wait for the full outcome

Damien 20-03-2017 21:40
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35890971)
I have specifically not commented on this, because I really don't know, whether there was Russian collusion or not or whether Trump was under surveillance or not. I'll wait for the full outcome
There isn't an investigation into Trump being wiretapped. The FBI, DOJ and NSC can't find evidence of it, don't understand how Obama could have done it or what caused Trump's tweet. Unless something from the WH is heading the committee's way today then I guess nothing is happening on that.

1andrew1 20-03-2017 21:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890973)
There isn't an investigation into Trump being wiretapped. The FBI, DOJ and NSC can't find evidence of it, don't understand how Obama could have done it or what caused Trump's tweet. Unless something from the WH is heading the committee's way today then I guess nothing is happening on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35890971)
I have specifically not commented on this, because I really don't know, whether there was Russian collusion or not or whether Trump was under surveillance or not. I'll wait for the full outcome
Passingbat, that is the full outcome. There is nothing to wait for on the Trump surveillance front.
The same cannot be said for the separate Russian collusion investigation. That's why FBI Chief Comey didn't comment on it much.

Hugh 20-03-2017 21:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Trump tweeted this from the POTUS account.
Quote:
The NSA and FBI tell Congress that Russia did not influence electoral process.
Two hours later, when questioned about this tweet during the Congressional hearing, the FBI Director stated
Quote:
Comey "We've offered no opinion, we have no view, have no information on potential impact, because it's never something we've looked at".

Congressman Himes "OK, so it's not too far of a logical leap to conclude the assertion that you have told the Congress that there was no influence on the Electoral Process is not quite right".

Comey "It certainly wasn't our intention to say that today, as we don't have any information on that subject, that's not something that was looked at."

1andrew1 20-03-2017 22:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Financial Times: FBI and NSA chiefs give Trump his worst day yet
By any measure — and it is a steep yardstick — it was the worst day so far for Mr Trump. In a juxtaposition without precedent in American history, two of the administration’s most senior officials directly contradicted the sitting US president over an inquiry that could lead to criminal indictments of his campaign team. Even if the FBI investigation came to naught, their testimony has fatally undermined Mr Trump’s authority. When asked whether he agreed with the British government’s dismissal of Mr Trump’s allegation that it had spied on him as “nonsense” and “ridiculous”, Admiral Rogers unhesitatingly agreed. To underline: the head of America’s largest intelligence agency backed a foreign power’s scathing characterisation of his own president’s words. Not even Richard Nixon suffered such a direct contradiction.
https://www.ft.com/content/79496bcc-...0-768954394623

Hugh 20-03-2017 22:34
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
C-Span transcripts...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425087...ampaign-russia

Interesting phrase used by FBI Director Comey at 1:11:05
Quote:
IT IS HARD TO SAY, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH LONGER IT IS GOING TO TAKE, AND WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ALL OF THE INVESTIGATION BEGAN IN LATE JULY, AND FOR THE COUNTER INTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATION, THAT IS A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
OED - COUNTERINTELLIGENCE - Activities designed to prevent or thwart spying, intelligence gathering, and sabotage by an enemy or other foreign entity.

I find it difficult to believe that the FBI Director used that phrase by mistake.

1andrew1 20-03-2017 23:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35890980)
C-Span transcripts...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425087...ampaign-russia

Interesting phrase used by FBI Director Comey at 1:11:05

OED - COUNTERINTELLIGENCE - Activities designed to prevent or thwart spying, intelligence gathering, and sabotage by an enemy or other foreign entity.

I find it difficult to believe that the FBI Director used that phrase by mistake.
He didn't, it's not a term to be used lightly.
I think today will go down as incredibly significant in the history of the current US administration.
It will be interesting to see if the Republican Party tries to reign Trump in a bit.

adzii_nufc 20-03-2017 23:07
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
It won't though, it'll be insignificant because absolutely nothing will come of this. James Comey couldn't find his arse with both hands. I like how confident he sounds when he's not being scalded for being an idiot though. Those oversight hearings where he was torn a new one about dishing out immunity deals in return for zilch were embarrassing.

http://i.magaimg.net/img/8o2.jpg

That's the position they're also now in. I'm now expected to actually believe they investigated this but never tapped him?

If anyone wants me to take this seriously and actually expect anything to come from this, James Comey isn't the man to do it.

Mick 21-03-2017 00:38
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35890950)
We have a number of posters in this thread who have a thing about hypocrisy ... how about this as an example?

Trump, critic of Obama's golfing, regularly hits the links



Hang on a minute, didn't he say?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/03/7.jpg
Weak as always ianch99.

Let's go back to Oct 13th 2014. Day Trump wrote that Tweet: That was a Monday. Assuming Trump was talking about that specific day. (13th Oct 2014 was public holiday Columbus Day in US, however, it is not seen as a major one, only 14% of businesses closed and most banks were open)

Trump has gone to his golf course most weekends (and not necessarily to always play golf). Are you saying in your pathetic agenda that Trump is not entitled to time out at weekend? So no, you have not highlighted anything of any hypocritical value.

---------- Post added at 00:38 ---------- Previous post was at 00:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35890951)
No, it's been the 59th day, each one of them a disaster.....

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-daily-updates
It's been a disaster watching you moan about Brexit and now Trump for those 59 days. :rolleyes:

I thought you were educated ? : Would take more than 59 days to build a frigging multi billion dollar wall. :rolleyes:

Damien 21-03-2017 05:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890997)
Weak as always ianch99.

Let's go back to Oct 13th 2014. Day Trump wrote that Tweet: That was a Monday. Assuming Trump was talking about that specific day. (13th Oct 2014 was public holiday Columbus Day in US, however, it is not seen as a major one, only 14% of businesses closed and most banks were open)

Trump has gone to his golf course most weekends (and not necessarily to always play golf). Are you saying in your pathetic agenda that Trump is not entitled to time out at weekend? So no, you have not highlighted anything of any hypocritical value.
The Presidency isn't a Monday to Friday job. I don't see the difference between golfing on a Monday or a weekend. Besides it's the amount of times he has gone there already and cost of it.

Anyway he is entitled to some time off but so was Obama.

passingbat 21-03-2017 08:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35890973)
There isn't an investigation into Trump being wiretapped. The FBI, DOJ and NSC can't find evidence of it, don't understand how Obama could have done it or what caused Trump's tweet. Unless something from the WH is heading the committee's way today then I guess nothing is happening on that.

I specifically used the word surveillance, not wiretapped.

Quote:
The chairman of the US House of Representatives Intelligence Committee has flatly denied Donald Trump’s claims about a wiretap on his Trump Tower residence in New York.
But, speaking at a hearing on Russia's involvement in last year’s presidential election, he said it was still possible other surveillance was used against Mr Trump.
In his opening statement, Republican Devin Nunes told the committee: "Let me be clear. We know there was not a wiretap on Trump Tower.
“However, it's still possible that other surveillance activities were used against President Trump and his associates."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7639656.html

I don't know whether he was under surveillance or not. This is why I think it is too early in the proceedings to make a judgement one way or the other on this.

1andrew1 21-03-2017 08:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35891014)
I specifically used the word surveillance, not wiretapped.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7639656.html

I don't know whether he was under surveillance or not. This is why I think it is too early in the proceedings to make a judgement one way or the other on this.
Passingbat, the only thing that is being investigated is Russia'a possible involvement in the presidential election. Trump failed to produce any evidence of surveillance so there was nothing to investigate.
If you review the quote you supplied,
Quote:
But, speaking at a hearing on Russia's involvement in last year’s presidential election, he said it was still possible other surveillance was used against Mr Trump.
you will see that the chairman of the US House of Representatives Intelligence Committee was talking at the Russian investigation as there is no surveillance investigation.

Stephen 21-03-2017 09:03
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I was watching the congressional hearing live when I was in New York. The Trump circus is just hilarious. CNN for most of the weekend was about him and anything he says or does.

I also visited Trump Tower and ventured inside. Lots of secret service officers stationed as well as the officers at the main entrances with assault rifles. Lots of tax payers money being spent.

ianch99 21-03-2017 09:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35890997)
Weak as always ianch99.

Let's go back to Oct 13th 2014. Day Trump wrote that Tweet: That was a Monday. Assuming Trump was talking about that specific day. (13th Oct 2014 was public holiday Columbus Day in US, however, it is not seen as a major one, only 14% of businesses closed and most banks were open)

Trump has gone to his golf course most weekends (and not necessarily to always play golf). Are you saying in your pathetic agenda that Trump is not entitled to time out at weekend? So no, you have not highlighted anything of any hypocritical value.
What is pathetic is someone how cannot see what is before before his eyes and, for some bizarre reason, will defend this man no matter what he does.

Claiming that I said he cannot have time off, analysing the % of banks open on a day in 2014, really? Desperate or what ..

The facts of the matter are that Trump on more than one occasion called out Obama for playing golf whilst President and he does the same.

You attempt (and fail) to defend the hypocrisy. What is hilarious is in previous posts you get on your high horse about hypocrisy and yet you are in denial now ...

Damien 21-03-2017 09:23
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35891014)
I specifically used the word surveillance, not wiretapped.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7639656.html

I don't know whether he was under surveillance or not. This is why I think it is too early in the proceedings to make a judgement one way or the other on this.
But you need some grounds to an investigation. They're not investigating it, they can't 'rule it out' because they haven't looked because that accusation wasn't made.

Anything might be true. If they ruled out any surveillance then there will be another accusation, followed by another one, followed by another one. We can't rule out Trump is a secret agent designed to discredit the Republicans and, a few years from now, will sensationally reveal all.

1andrew1 21-03-2017 09:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35891023)
What is pathetic is someone how cannot see what is before before his eyes and, for some bizarre reason, will defend this man no matter what he does.

Claiming that I said he cannot have time off, analysing the % of banks open on a day in 2014, really? Desperate or what ..

The facts of the matter are that Trump on more than one occasion called out Obama for playing golf whilst President and he does the same.

You attempt (and fail) to defend the hypocrisy. What is hilarious is in previous posts you get on your high horse about hypocrisy and yet you are in denial now ...
I felt Hugh's question about Trump's hypocrisy was more pertinent. I summarised it as:
Month 1: Trump says people shouldn't be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody's name.
Month 2: Trump's own press secretary quoted Judge Andrew Napolitano who used anonymous sources.
The reason given to Hugh as to why this hypocrisy is ok is that Trump's press secretary is not Trump himself.

Regarding the golfing, I don't have an issue with that. At the time before he was President, Trump may have felt that the President shouldn't take a day out for this. Having done the job himself, he may now appreciate that it's needed. But more likely scoring political points!

passingbat 21-03-2017 09:32
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35891018)
Passingbat, the only thing that is being investigated is Russia'a possible involvement in the presidential election. Trump failed to produce any evidence of surveillance so there was nothing to investigate.
If you review the quote you supplied,

you will see that the chairman of the US House of Representatives Intelligence Committee was talking at the Russian investigation as there is no surveillance investigation.
The comment was made at yesterday's hearing, unless I misunderstood the Telegraph as well.



Quote:
Devin Nunes, the Republican chairman of the committee, said if anyone in the Trump campaign was found to have aided or abetted the Russians it would "not only be a serious crime, it would also represent one of the most shocking betrayals of our democracy in history".
He added: "We know there was not a wiretap on Trump Tower. However, it’s still possible that other surveillance activities were used against President Trump and his associates."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ssian-hackers/

Mick 21-03-2017 09:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35891023)
What is pathetic is someone how cannot see what is before before his eyes and, for some bizarre reason, will defend this man no matter what he does.

Claiming that I said he cannot have time off, analysing the % of banks open on a day in 2014, really? Desperate or what ..

The facts of the matter are that Trump on more than one occasion called out Obama for playing golf whilst President and he does the same.

You attempt (and fail) to defend the hypocrisy. What is hilarious is in previous posts you get on your high horse about hypocrisy and yet you are in denial now ...
Laughable I have to say, I insist you have not added anything of any hypocritical value.

He went to his golf course this last weekend, did he play golf? Who knows?

I actually read he was meant to be hosting healthcare business leaders to try and sort out the Obamacare mess. But sure thing, you and others see a headline that suits your Anti-Trump agenda and immediately jump on the over the top, negative hysteria bandwagon and it's not about defending him : I am just NOT interested in BS headline chasing!

Damien 21-03-2017 09:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
If he did meet healthcare leaders it's a bit late, the bill goes to a vote this week.

1andrew1 21-03-2017 10:04
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35891029)
The comment was made at yesterday's hearing, unless I misunderstood the Telegraph as well

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ssian-hackers/
I just quoted your quote. :)

The main learning point from this is - there is no surveillance or wire-tapping investigation, just one into the Russian matter. Because there is no wire-tapping or surveillance evidence to investigate.

Mick 21-03-2017 10:21
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35891032)
If he did meet healthcare leaders it's a bit late, the bill goes to a vote this week.
It was actually a VA meeting and he also met with Marvel Entertainment CEO, Ike Perlmutter. He also stopped off at a Cancer charity event.

http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/li...KK9gx6OCPmZgP/

No mention of golf being played at all and I am sure those Paparazzi with long distance lenses, would have caught a glimpse or two if he had.

Damien 21-03-2017 10:39
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35891040)
It was actually a VA meeting and he also met with Marvel Entertainment CEO, Ike Perlmutter. He also stopped off at a Cancer charity event.

http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/li...KK9gx6OCPmZgP/

No mention of golf being played at all and I am sure those Paparazzi with long distance lenses, would have caught a glimpse or two if he had.
Makes more sense. I am not sure when the bill does actually go the floor but it might even be today.

Damien 21-03-2017 12:56
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Fox News seem to suspended the pundit who made the GCHQ claims: http://www.mediaite.com/uncategorize...etap-comments/

They had previously said their reporters couldn't find evidence of his claims and said it was his views only and not those of Fox.

passingbat 21-03-2017 13:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35891036)

The main learning point from this is - there is no surveillance or wire-tapping investigation, just one into the Russian matter. Because there is no wire-tapping or surveillance evidence to investigate.

I can see the parameters of this enquiry being opened up, or a new one being started, especially into the amount of leaks.


This particular exchange needs to be looked into further:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIh-CadZweI.

Damien 22-03-2017 17:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/22/watch...stigation.html

Quote:
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Devin Nunes will speak Wednesday about the ongoing investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 election.
https://twitter.com/jamiedupree?lang=en-gb

Quote:
Nunes says Trump communications were caught in "normal incidental collection...normal foreign surveillance"
He has said so far there was collection of data from Trump's team in the process of monitoring foreign intelligence and Trump may have been included in that incidentally. Although the White House hasn't seen it so it's not what Trump was referring too. If true though it would explain how they knew about Flynn and the Russian ambassador.

ianch99 22-03-2017 17:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35891027)
I felt Hugh's question about Trump's hypocrisy was more pertinent. I summarised it as:
Month 1: Trump says people shouldn't be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody's name.
Month 2: Trump's own press secretary quoted Judge Andrew Napolitano who used anonymous sources.
The reason given to Hugh as to why this hypocrisy is ok is that Trump's press secretary is not Trump himself.

Regarding the golfing, I don't have an issue with that. At the time before he was President, Trump may have felt that the President shouldn't take a day out for this. Having done the job himself, he may now appreciate that it's needed. But more likely scoring political points!
You are right of course, there are far more important issues here than playing golf. The issue is not the golf but his regular hypocrisy regarding his behaviour.

What he should have done is to tweet a message like:

Quote:
After being POTUS for the time I have, I was wrong. I can see why Obama needed to take some time and relax on the golf course!
He would earn far more credibility doing this that his normal tweeted nonsense ...

passingbat 22-03-2017 19:38
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Nunes announcement today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kUcoNTR-0g

Mick 22-03-2017 20:19
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35891262)
So to sum this up, intelligence reports have been provided to Devin Nunes : House Chairman of Intelligence Select Committee, which suggests The Trump team were being monitored after he won the Presidency Election, so this is Nov, Dec 2016 and then Jan this year that these reports suggest they were being monitored.

Whoever ordered this, Nunes said failed to alert Congress, he says what needs to be determined now, who knew about it (i.e Was President Obama aware? Given he receives intelligence briefings daily, I would struggle to believe he didn't) and if any laws have been violated.

Hugh 22-03-2017 20:30
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35891060)
I can see the parameters of this enquiry being opened up, or a new one being started, especially into the amount of leaks.


This particular exchange needs to be looked into further:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIh-CadZweI.
Mmmm.....

The house is on fire, let's investigate who set off the fire alarm, and ignore finding out who set the house on fire...

Would Nixon have been impeached if they had only investigated "Deep Throat" and Woodward & Bernstein, and brushed over the facts of the Watergate break-in, and the abuses of power by the Nixon administration?

Damien 22-03-2017 20:36
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35891275)
So to sum this up, intelligence reports have been provided to Devin Nunes : House Chairman of Intelligence Select Committee, which suggests The Trump team were being monitored after he won the Presidency Election, so this is Nov, Dec 2016 and then Jan this year that these reports suggest they were being monitored.
At the moment it seems Trump aides were caught up in FISA warrants. I.E They already had the other end of the phones tapped (presumably when phoning foreign nations who were already being monitored).

At the moment though he isn't sharing the intel with the rest of the committee so god knows what's doing on now.

passingbat 22-03-2017 21:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35891018)
there is no surveillance investigation.

It looks like there will possibly be one now. Good questions from Trey Gowdy on Monday.


We still need to see what actually happened. Investigations don't mean someone is guilty of something. I'm waiting for more information to come down the pike before making any judgement on all aspects of this enquiry.

Damien 22-03-2017 21:20
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
There are two investigations at the moment. Trump/Russia and the leaks.

1andrew1 22-03-2017 23:32
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35891292)
There are two investigations at the moment. Trump/Russia and the leaks.
Yes. I don't see grounds for people complaining that their phones were tapped when they phoned officials of what the US classified as a hostile country, Russia.


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