Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Or as someone else said:

"Tristram Hunt is giving up his job with a historical re-enactment party to go and work for a museum...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Quite...
... and to think some folks kid themselves Corbyn's cronies are a breath of fresh air in politics. Some of us have seen and heard it all before.

Of course, they'll come up with excuses for the failures, ineptitude, cronyism and nepotism just like they always did - same old, same old...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38677632

Some things never change eh?

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

:rofl::clap::D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Another apparent U-turn to add to an already large collection. Time will tell how accurate this article is

Jeremy Corbyn backs down on vow to force Labour MPs to vote in favour of Brexit

In an apparent U-turn, sources denied Mr Corbyn will force his MPs to vote with the Government and instead claimed that the leader is still making up his mind.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ticle-50-says/

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Good grief l thought the other parties were not that good but these lot seem to be a right rabble...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nice quip by Piers Morgan (yes I know) on Question Time last night:

Emily Thornberry: We're not in government at the moment ...
Morgan: You're not in opposition either...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Lol, funniest comment of the year so far! :)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Priceless.

More trouble 't mill:

Linky

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Thursday, 23 February ... by elections in Copeland and Stoke Central. There could be blood on the carpet.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Could be expectations management but let's hope for a bloodbath. The only way things will improve is a massive jolt to the system. I think it's in everyone's interest to have a decent opposition.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Best to get out your reliable steam cleaner then as it will be required.:)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

If the local party has picked a candidate over Corbyn's nominee, the chances reduce of a bloodbath as i) the candidate should perform better than Corbyn's nominee ii) if the candidate performs badly blame can be laid at the local party and not Corbyn. So the status quo of a weak opposition and Theresa and her unchecked mayhem continues.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Morgan was on form but the quote you have attributed to him was in fact made by Alistair Carmichael.

Morgan is witty but not clever and witty ;)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The problem is, Labour have not been an effective opposition for years, possibly decades. You can argue that Tony Blair was quite sucessfull, and he was. He won two terms with no need for a coalition. (something which no prime minister has done since), but when he was leader, Labour were saying largely the same things the tories did. David Cameron only won his first term because he joined a coalition, and I personally believe he only won his second because he was able to ensure the Liberals were blamed for the bad stuff his government did, and Labour were not an effective opposition (sorry to any Ed Milliband fans, but with the economy in the state it was from the government's austerity measures, any halfway competent opposition leader should have been able to walk the election and still win).

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yeah, but he had the EdStone :rofl:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I wonder what happened to the special advisor(s) who persuaded daft Miliband that it was a great idea... :shrug:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

There's a story that the person who was heading the Labour election campaign screamed 'NO!' then he saw it on tv. He apparently had no idea as different sections of the campaign weren't communicating well enough.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Or at all, as the case may be.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I suppose it could have been someone Milband met on one of his nice strolls meeting the plebs on Hampstead Heath... :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The Tories won in 2015 because they were able to convince people that they were restoring the strength of the economy and were therefore more competent than Labour. * The device they used for this was high immigration. Some will argue that low corporation tax played a big part, but most would say this was not the main driver. Immigration increases demand, business start-ups, GDP and the revenue stream. This was the Tories at their most duplicitous, promising to reduce EU and non-EU immigration whilst allowing it to rise. To make it worse, and we have all suffered for this, they failed to allocate any of that increased revenue stream into the services of those parts of the country with the highest immigration.

Consequence? Farage, and fellow opportunists, were able to exploit the resulting peak in anti-immigration feelings and convert it into a vote to leave the EU. The tragic irony is that leaving the EU, on its own, will not reduce immigration. The needs of the economy are what decides immigration levels. Ask the Australians with their economy-friendly points system. Aussies are still complaining about high immigration.

* Edit: I would argue that high immigration is still behind our continued growth, although uncertainty about the final nature of Brexit will soon dragging us back down again. More irony?

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

From the Spectator:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

But even Corbyn and his supporters wouldn't call themselves liberal. They're not liberals. As said before the way, in this country, liberal and left are synonymous is the kind of imported Americanism that Brietbart awkwardly tried to do. We have Conservatives who're liberal here.

As for the examples given it becomes rather hard to differentiate between left and right at some point. Trump is doing things in might be considered left wing. He is a protectionist who wants to impose tariffs on imports, limit free trade and spend a lot of government money on providing jobs. If Trump proves a failure I suspect you'll be defining him as a liberal too.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nope. I'll simply be defining him a failure.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Another kerfuffle

PMQs: Jeremy Corbyn offers condolences to dead police officer who didn't actually die
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7545256.html

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

What a nonce. Jeremy has shot himself in the foot and wishes he had died; and in a way, he did. :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It would be more appropriate if he'd sent condolences at the death of the Labour party. :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Perhaps this bi-axis overview of the Left / Right / Libertarian / Authoritarian conundrum will help you out. You do seem to struggle with impartiality on this subject.

Where would you place yourself on this chart? I would place myself towards the bottom left corner of the left/libertarian quadrant. Communists would, I suppose, be well inside the left authoritarian quadrant. Adolf, (despite the deliberately misnamed National Socialist Party), would be well into the right/authoritarian quadrant. Where might we place Cameron, May, Corbyn, Bernie Sanders or Obama. We all know where we can stick Trump!! :D

[img][/img]


For your own entertainment, rather than scientific enlightenment, you can test yourself for placement on the chart.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Mmm we don't like graphs or charts or facts round here, members that post them have been known to have been driven of the forum by the mob

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

having a hissy fit and flouncing off because people disagree with you is not being driven off its just having a childish tantrum .

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Come on he was being stalked and mobbed every post, related or not

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I would place myself higher on the liberal axis and slightly to the left of the left/right axis. However I don't think that contradicts what I said. My objection is the idea left = liberal when you rightly point out that it doesn't. At least not automatically.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

is that a lofty lefty then ;)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I'm not even on the graph ;)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I prefer metropolitan liberal elite. Sounds better. :cool:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

there's nothing wrong with being unique ;)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn is left and libertarian. He supports worker's rights, environmental protection, devolution of power to communities, workers on company boards, equal opportunities for all etc . You can't get much more libertarian than that.

Since when was trade protectionism a left wing characteristic? Protectionism is an authoritarian/populist trait adopted by certain kinds of both the left and the right, e.g. Nazi Germany, Trump's America now and Soviet Russia.

Trump providing money to create jobs? If he does, that will be a flash in the pan, pure tokenism as a sop to the run down regions that voted for him. If he finds funds for sustained investment in US infrastructure all well and good, but his main weapon to attempt to increase jobs for Americans is protectionism. One thing for sure, he and his ilk won't be releasing their trillions to the tax man. None of that will be available to support government schemes, rebuilding programmes etc. It's all safely stored in off-shore tax havens. You can't get more right-wing than that. Such people are only liberal when it comes to reducing regulation that stops them exploiting the rest of us.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

How can government intervene so much in society and then claim to be libertarian? I am not against many of those things but they're not libertarian at all. They require the government to regulate different areas of society. Only the devolution of power would be something a libertarian would support there. Corbyn is almost the polar opposite of a libertarian.

Although libertarianism isn't the same as liberal. I don't think we have much of a tradition of it in the UK.

Quote often. Protectionism is often advocated by some on the left who are skeptical of free trade, believing it favours mega-corporations and the expense of workers.

Although I don't think we disagree much here. I think only in that prior to Trump you didn't see many Conservatives advocating against free-trade in the Western Worlds (as far as I am aware).

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Correct.

What did G.Brown say? British jobs for British workers? Or something like that. If a British PM had made that inauguration speech it would have been very well received.

We're anti illegal immigrant, we have our "wall" in France.

I think Trump has got a good few of his ideas from us.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The thing is about from his rhetoric about British Jobs for British people Gordon Brown wasn't a protectionist either. He believed, like most Western politicians, that protectionism ultimately harms an economy as it reduces competition and can spark trade wars. You want your own country's businesses to have access to international markets can if you restrict foreign access to your own they may in turn do the same to you. Meanwhile those businesses can become lazy when all their foreign competition has a massive mark-up due to tariffs.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38753808

Oh dear.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Never mind, Corbyn wont be in a job long. And almost certainly if May calls an election.

He will be out if will fail to get even second place in the by election. Everyone knows that Labour, is not the Labour it was.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think we are getting hung up on the relative libertarian credentials of process and means and outcomes here and not getting the bigger picture. Corbyn's outcomes are libertarian because they create economic and social freedoms. The means of getting there do not necessarily have to be authoritarian. Measures such as investment in jobs, the environment, housing, education and training, enhancing worker and human rights etc are enabling devices. This kind of intervention is also a libertarian process. No doubt some of these cannot be achieved without laws and codes of conduct that restrict employers ability to unfairly exploit their workers. If you think taxation is authoritarian rather than an essential funding device then I suppose all political colours are authoritarian. My yardstick is the extend to which the vast majority have their liberties advanced.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Tulip Siddiq? (No, me neither) Obviously high profile. :dozey:

So Corbyn imposes a three line whip to vote in favour of triggering article 50. We'll see how effective that is, eh?

Source

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think you mean liberalism rather than libertarianism? Libertarianism is about as little government as possible, i.e the very basics. Liberalism is less dramatic although generally supports free markets and individual freedoms (the former is why I wouldn't classify Corbyn as liberal).

What you're talking about, government intervention in reducing inequality as inequality itself is barrier to true freedom, is social liberalism.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The difference between conservatives, socialists and traditional libertarians is as follows:

Socialists: What you do with your body and with other folk is your business, but what you do with your money is government business

Conservatives: What your do with your money is your own business, but what you do with your body and with other folk is government business

Libertarians: What you do, who you do it with and what you spend on is none of the government's business

There's been a lack of a truly Libertarian political party in the UK for many years. The Liberals used to be one, but since the SDP Alliance and the coming of the Lib Dems they've slipped more towards the Socialist/Social Democrat idea of tax and spend and green "initiatives" (aka banning things).

The biggest problem is that no politician has the guts to campaign on a manifesto of what they won't be doing, and no politician ever wants to reduce the state's (read: politicians') power over daily life. The only PM who came close to it was Thatcher, who privatised the big state run monopolies, but continued with authoritarian social policies regarding sex education and so on.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The Liberal Democrats would describe themselves as Social Liberals I think although that is a lot of overlap.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well seems like democracy isn't that big of a thing to many elected representatives when it doesn't suit them and it's clear that the agenda of some over parliaments vote on article 50 is to attempt to derail brexit completely.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Instead of doing their job,namely doing what their electorate wish, i suspect a lot of labour MP's will be using the brexit vote to follow a personal agenda against Corbyn

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

They'd do well to remember their electorates as they'll get spanked if it's a leave area...

We know MP's have a built in desire for self -protection that overrides all else.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I like your attempt to characterise Conservative, Socialist and Libertarian, but I'm struggling a bit with this semantic discussion we are having, because it could become completely arid and is probably impossible to resolve. We may talk about Liberalism as if it was something different than Libertarianism, but they are differentially towards the same end of the same spectrum and are qualitatively similar in many ways. Meanwhile, the desire to have a common understanding of the terms we use, is constantly frustrated by the continuous morphing of meanings in common parlance. e.g. For a long time the right of the Conservative Party and the GOP have been referred to, pejoratively, as 'NeoCons', then that term quickly drifted out of use and now they get labelled as NeoLiberals! Perhaps they are both.

I'm fascinated by your characterisation of green initiatives as anti-libertarian because it involves banning things. In fact, green initiatives are ways of bringing about urgent change by offering better and more sustainable ways of doing things. Well-executed initiatives are enabling. Ironically, resistance to such change comes from 'neoliberals' like Murdoch, clinging to the old ways and technologies of money-making. It is they who denounce the green movement as being a fascistic, authoritarian scam. I'm waiting, tapping my desk, for them to realise, as the left has, that the future is green and that there is money to be made. Trump, for example, ought to be massively investing in the development and manufacture of green tech in those old coal and steel towns he used to win the election. Instead he wants to contribute to the demise of our civilisation by digging up coal again and extracting shale gas.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It's the Americanisation of it that is causing the confusion, it's what started this conversation in the first place as British writers are using the American definition of liberal more and more. Europe has a specific meaning that differs from the American meaning. In America liberal is used for most of the left.

However Libertarianism is the same across the West IIRC. It's defined by almost no government at all. A Libertarian would want to drastically reduce the size of government including the NHS and welfare. They would not want to use state intervention to reduce inequality as they would claim that this is better achieved by the government getting out of the way. Corbyn is not a libertarian at all. I think old school liberals, classical liberals, are a lot closer to that than modern day European liberals.

I think after that it gets more difficult. A lot of people from Nick Clegg to Daniel Hannan could be described as a liberal by some definitions. The latter example being why it's so stupid to use the American definition of liberal when talking about British politics. The Liberal Democrats themselves split into two groups divided between how much they think the state should get involved in the economy but united on social freedoms. I think what you've described earlier was social liberalism. The idea that economic inequality is a barrier to freedom so that should be addressed.

I would say where liberals differ from Corbyn is that Corbyn believes in equality of outcome. He wants to use taxation, welfare, regulation and other things to bring everyone onto the same level as much as possible.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I agreed with everything you said apart from the bit left in quotes.

Nobody is looking for equality of outcome. That is impossible because we are all different and make different use of the cards we are dealt. The only way in which we can be seen as equal is in the Christian cultural sense of having equal value as human beings. I had this same conversation with someone on FB the other day who was trying, disparagingly, to characterise Socialism as seeking 'equality' - meaning equality of outcome. She then proceeded to shoot the notion down. Really, 'equality' is the sloppy shorthand for 'equality of opportunity'.

I don't believe that you are misrepresenting the concept of 'equality' so that you can then shoot its supporters down, but we do need to be clear what is meant by it in the labour movement - by socialists. Socialism has developed the concept of equality of opportunity from the cultural Christian concept of humans being equally valued regardless of their socio-economic status, race, gender etc. Given that 'equality' means 'equality of opportunity' we can now see attempts to redistribute wealth, maintain free universal education and health services, occasional quotas for women and the disabled in jobs, special needs education, translations of documents for newly arrived immigrants etc as means of levelling the playing field - to give everyone an equal chance of success. This is what the labour movement has always been about since the 19th Century. For an equally long period the right wing press and politicians have sought to diss this admirable ambition by accusing the left of wanting everyone to be the same or have the same wealth and power.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

If this line of posting continues I intend to do the decent thing and go into the drawing room and retrieve my revolver :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn's a clown but he doesn't deserve that. :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Certainly not. Just a bit of waterboarding will do.:D

Reminds me of that bond film:

" Do you expect me to talk?"

" No Mr Bond, I expect you to die""

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Fixed that for you :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Possibly worth noting Micks post:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=37342

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yup not got a problem with that. Not a fan of Corbyn dispite being a libtard ;)

---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Ramrod made it clear he changed the quote. Mick might disagree but personally I am fine with it

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The penny is starting to drop.

Labour 'carries out secret polls for Corbyn's replacement'
Labour has carried out secret polling to test the popularity of senior figures touted as successors to Jeremy Corbyn.
Voters were asked to rate shadow chancellor John McDonnell along with rising stars Rebecca Long-Bailey and Angela Rayner, according to a document leaked to the Sunday Times.
http://news.sky.com/story/labour-car...ement-10765263

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well l think anybody with a reasonable brain cell Andrew knew it was just a matter of time before the unelectable Corbyn was going to get a knock on the door like Conservative leaders do with their 1922 Committee when they are becoming deeply unpopular within their own party and their constituents.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think the Party fell in love with his politics and overlooked his basic competency. His politics are now looking less competent given his wooliness on Brexit. So his one perceived strength is now gone and I think that's why he might get that "knoock on the door".

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Even in your Daily Mail l gather.;)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

well spotted den

Corbyn's replacement? Hard-left plot to overthrow Labour leader but keep control

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...ft-plot-leader

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Tony Parsons piece today makes grim reading for Labour:

Tony Parsons column

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

And that would be even a more unmitigating disaster then they currently have now.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Could have gone in two other threads here but seeing as its Jezzers idea:

Linky

:rofl:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It's refreshing to see Abbot's hasn't lost her ability to be offensive even when she's busy complaining about abuse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38977784

Some folks clearly don't mind dishing out the insults but are rather sensitive when they're on the receiving end but what do you expect from someone who totally decries private education until it's her son's turn to take advantage of it? Presumably being the son of a leading Labour politician, he needs all the help in life he can get but woe betide the likes of us mere mortals if we want the same thing for our kids.

Oddly I seem to recall Prescott hated all that House of Lords privilege until he got his chance to grab his new title and jump on the gravy train.

---------- Post added at 10:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

Labour's like the EU - when it's clear that the direction they've chosen isn't working their answer is to accelerate along the same course. It's really quite bizarre unless of course there's been an outbreak of Lemmings Disease at HQ... :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

How totally unsurprising that both the bbc and the grauniad spout the bolleaux that piece of filth comes out with.....

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I don't like Abbot. I think she is a hypocrite and a poor politician. But calling her a 'piece of filth' is pretty over the top.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yes and it wouldn't be my choice of words but do you seriously think she's never used language which is just as offensive? Bandying around terms like bigot, racist and sexist is highly offensive isn't it? Look at the language which was routinely used against Farage by all sorts of high profile people, especially those on the left.

There's an old saying 'what goes around comes around' and if people in high office don't like abuse they shouldn't employ it. They're supposed to be setting an example but, when it suits, they'll happily indulge in just the sort of behaviour/language they condemn others for.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yes. I do think she uses similar language hence the hypocrite remark. It's just I don't like it from her or from others either. I said before, left or right, the way we treat and talk about each other is getting worse and more extreme and we should try and scale that back.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Exactly.:tu:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Also in the Telegraph and the Express...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...regular-basis/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...h-profile-jobs

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think most of us can agree on that. :tu:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

By-election results: Labour hold Stoke but lose Copeland. Tories Gain Copeland.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Awful night for Labour and UKIP. Corbyn really should go but won't.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The saddest thing at the moment is there is no strong opposition and in my opinion you do need that or else the governing party will basically just do what they want without any strong questioning at all of the policies they want to implement.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Copeland was always going to be a struggle. When your leader is opposed to the major employers in the area (The nuclear industry and BAE submarine building at Barrow) then its going to take more than "our NHS" to shift voters' minds.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

But if Labour can't win on the NHS which was a big issue in Copeland by all accounts then they're really in trouble.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Indeed that is the way l see it.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

This was a great result. Corbyn did just well enough to hang on in leadership, but the results indicate just how badly he is likely to do at the next GE.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Corbyn has done more than enough even before yesterday to be kicked out. He won't because he has the members who'll ensure he can stay, irrespective of how badly he does.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Some say they're really Tories... :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think they also realise that any of the alteratives to Corbyn, that have stuck their heads above the parapet, are even bigger voter turn offs being more left wing and more pro EU.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Almost anyone would be better than Corbyn. Even if they're pro-EU they would at least have the Remainers covered - Corbyn has alienated both. John Curtice has pointed out Labour might do better targetting remainers anyway since the UKIP vote seems to be moving back to the Tories.

Ideally, for them, would be someone who isn't bogged down by the question. Accepts it's happening but challenges the government on the terms etc.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Jeremy Corbyn has claimed Labour is in "good heart" despite losing a safe seat to the Tories, in an area held by the party since 1935.

Talk about denial! The man must be mental.

Link

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Where are all those Corbyn fans who'd jump savagely to his defence like demented Rottweilers not that long ago? Maybe they're celebrating all the success their man Corbyn's delivering...

:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Here's one for you. Put your tea down and clear your mouth before viewing. I won't be liable for a new keyboard. ;)

https://order-order.com/2017/02/24/c...vement-labour/

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

New keyboard please! :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Of course not, Watson might lose his cushy job.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39090327

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

So Corbyn's going to stay on to 'finish the job' and 'turn back the tide'...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39093981

Finish the job of destroying his party I presume. He's sounding increasingly like King Cnut.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Unless the SNP imploded in Scotland, Labour would have a hard task regaining power even if Corbyn was a credible leader which he'll never be. May's right, she doesn't need to do anything whilst he and his supporters continue in denial.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

About that ...

https://order-order.com/2017/02/26/c...ell-done-snps/

:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

:D

He is embarrassing.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

RIP Gerald Kaufman.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39099489

Another by-election for Corbyn ...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

23,000 majority. Very safe seat. The Liberal Democrats might eat into the majority a bit but I don't think Westminster will be waiting with baited breath for this one.