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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Flavio did say that NPjr had tried to blackmail him, after all NPjr did the deed and not the courageous thing which would have been to expose the whole rotten plot.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
This scenario is discussed on other forums;
1-Dave Richards & Prodrive take over the Renualt squad and their F1 entry in the winter. 2-Renault remain as an engine supplier, stay in F1 but withou toperating their own team. |
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Didn't Heidfeld 'let' Hamilton pass on the last lap, which just by pure coincidence meant that Hamilton won the Championship along with the PR for F1 that followed.
IIRC Damon Hill once complained that in the final race of a season(can't remember which), he was 'ordered' to let Schumacher pass, so that he still had the opportunity to win the championship. |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
A driver allowing another one to pass isn't against any rules, where as a team ordering a driver to do the same thing is.
Team orders probably do exist and are probably within a drivers verbal briefing pre-race (like this NPjr incident), but it's hard to prove otherwise ---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ---------- Quote:
Might see if I can find the race to download and see what the positions were |
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Yeah but even a single point for massa would have crowned him world champion ;)
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
The problem with this thread of speculation is that any change in the result from Singapore had the potential to change the way ALL the teams approached the following races.
I have been thinking about "team orders" as well. Its one thing to shuffle your drivers, Rubens/Schumi/Austria/Ferrari for example, that is in your control as a team and I think will always happen. What Renault appear to have done not only compromised the safety of its own staff, track workers etc but also to interfere with the the way ALL the other teams ran their respective races. Thats what makes it different to team orders. Dont shoot me down for the next bit please;)......posing a question nothing more ! The question I ask is was Alonso in on it? Why else would he have gone down such an aggressive strategy route? Ok , after all on a street circuit the chance of someone having an off was pretty high. |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
I don;t think we'll know if he was or wasn't...
FB & PS could have manipulated him by his fuel load or even a simple PIT NOW order.. |
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If you believe how much effort Senna and Schumi would use in working with the team on setup up and strategy I suspect they would have wnated to understand the approach to the strategy.
Like you say we will probably never know...... |
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A good article on the James Allen website and a spirited discussion as well. http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/0...re-crash-plot/ I REALLY MUST do some more work today ! |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
This whole episode is sending Formula 1 deeper and deeper into a complete shambles.
Who can we trust, what can we trust, the sport has been seriously tainted by these and other actions recently, one can only imagine what someone like Frank Williams makes of all this. As for Piquet jnr allowing himself to be manipulated in this way, words fail me :confused: Everyone knows F1 is a cutthroat business but this takes the biscuit..... |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Brawn and Canon is sponsorship deal for Singapore
http://www.brawngp.com/readstory.asp...C1%AA%C0rZy%5E |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
The renault issue and previous problems really does make FOTA and thier alternatice F1 seem a more realistic prospect
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The thing that annoys me in all this is that just because certain individuals seem to think they are a law unto themselves, the whole set-up gets tared with the same brush. Sort of a "well if there at it, they all must be and what else is going on that we don`t know about". It`s the Renault mechanics i feel sorry for, they probably thought they had a genuine win and didn`t mind the smashed up car as the other one had won. Now they could end up out of a job! |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Two year suspended ban for the team, lifetime ban for Flav and a five year ban for Symmonds.
Source Autosport.com "Renault has been handed a two-year suspended ban for its involvement in fixing the result of last year's Singapore Grand Prix. The FIA has also stated that former team principal Flavio Briatore will face a lifetime ban from involvement in any of its series - and for anyone involved with him. Former director of engineering Pat Symonds has been given an effective five-year ban from involvement in FIA-sanctioned motorsport." |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Due to Renault's actions to find the source of the problem and control it best they can, the FIA have suspended the suspension until the end of the 2011 season.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8266090.stm
IMO Renault got off EXTREMELY light. Flav and Pat are already gone, and have reduced the damage to the company somewhat by being fired / let go. Piquet Jr's unlikely to find employment in the near or distant future. |
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The thing is that it was last year so I don;t think they could do anything to this years standings.. It is though a "step out of line again in the next couple of years and we will jump on you"
Flavio might even lose his football team as the conduct rules for owners will take this as a strike against his character.. Glad to see the FIA though take strong action |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
He's already past the FA's Fit and Proper Persons test. But a re-test for dodgy results might be in order. ;)
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Don't they FA rules say you can't run/own a club if you're banned by a recognised sporting body? (Which he is now)
As for Renault, "getting off", I think it's only fair because punishing Renault now would mean punishing innocent people as no one at Renault had an idea of the fixing. Yes Renault are responsible for their employee's actions which explains why they have a punishment if they step out of line again. Good to see the actions of a couple mindless idiots don't affect hundreds of people's lives :tu: |
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Yep, the fit and proper test is only a guage of his character at the time of the test..
Sooner FB is out of every sport the better (yep I really do hate cheats!!) |
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I guess a few drivers need to find a new manager asap seeing he's not loud to manage them.
I agree with Kymmy the sooner that FB is out the better, i never did like the bloke. |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Alonso & Kovalinen a red bull driver & possible another driver all need a new manager.
Alonso might get out even though he's been cleared, flying poop might stick to him. |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pr/8260661.stm
FB now being looked at by the FA :D ---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Repercussions continue. Apparently Renault will run without ING branding following the early termination of the title sponsorship contract. Mutua Madrilena have also canned their team sponsorship with immediate effect but are continuing personal sponsorship of Alonso. Source Autosport.
Cant wait to for practice to get underway and some on track action..... |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
According to Holly Samos on BBC 5 live Dave Richards is lining up a deal to buy the team from Renault!
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
This story get better day by day
Briatore ban too harsh - F1 boss Bernie and Briatore are business partners in QPR,:mad: Dodgy dealing 1000% http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8272812.stm Bernie should go aswell |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Is it just me or do some of the shots look like they are "tilt shift" style, they have a high speed camera low down camera on one of the corners that to me looks like its tilt shift style.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Where the hell did Rosberg find that 1:46.197 in Q2 ?????
:clap: ---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ---------- Q3 gets red flagged with 0:26 on the clock after Rubens puts his car into the wall.. Finishing positions at the end of Q3 are 1 Great Britain L Hamilton McLaren 2 Germany S Vettel Red Bull 3 Germany N Rosberg Williams 4 Australia M Webber Red Bull 5 Brazil R Barrichello Brawn 6 Spain F Alonso Renault 7 Germany T Glock Toyota 8 Germany N Heidfeld BMW Sauber 9 Poland R Kubica BMW Sauber 10 Finland H Kovalainen McLaren 11 Japan K Nakajima Williams 12 Great Britain J Button Brawn 13 Finland K Raikkonen Ferrari 14 Switzerland S Buemi Toro Rosso 15 Italy J Trulli Toyota 16 Germany A Sutil Force India 17 Spain J Alguersuari Toro Rosso 18 Italy G Fisichella Ferrari 19 France R Grosjean Renault 20 Italy V Liuzzi Force India But Barrichello will drop 5 places due to a gearbox change |
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Pressure not getting to him, my arse it`s not :) |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
well what a boring race. Almost no pacing at all. Almost fell asleep at one point. At least JB manged to make up a few places.
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Anyone else getting confused about the variable penalties dished out at races?
Mark Webber gets told to let two people by for "gaining or maintaining an advantage" when you could argue he was pushed off the track by Alonso Nico Rosberg gets a drive though which totally screws his races for a slight error which he did his best to recover from by getting back behind the line and did not affect anyone else. Sutil gets a fine but no subsequent race punishment for wiping out another car Raikonnen gets nothing for driving off the circuit and gaining an advantage at Spa ? Any thoughts? ---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
The Rosberg penalty is an automatic one just like speeding in the pit lane. It doesn't matter if you cut the white line by 1cm or ignore it completely, it's a drive through. It's just unlucky that he got his drive through around the time a safety car came out. If he took his penalty early there would have been no problem.
The Webber / Raikonnen is a similar one and both should have got a penalty. Webber got one because he floored it when off track when he could have backed off slightly and followed behind Alonso. It's just unlucky he had to let 2 cars ahead because Alonso was overtaken. The Sutil one is a bit odd as I would have expected a grid place drop, maybe they ruled it was a legitimate move just wrongly timed due to a blind spot? It's not like he drove forward, he just continued the spin. |
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It was so boring that I did fall asleep, what a terrible circuit.
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I found it quite stimulating, as it happens. Granted, it was not as exciting as last year's, but then there was more at stake last year. Flyboy10 and Flyboy8 both watched it the whole way through, which is a first for them.
Sutil's penalty was fair, I don't think he did anything maliciously, just poor judgement. As far as the "confusing" actions taken, involving Alonso and Raikonnen; with those two names mentioned, I am not surprised at all.:shocked: |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Fair play i was wrong, Jenson drove a half decent race and this has hopefully done his title prospects the world of good.
My point was more though that when he`s interviewed he claims all is fine and dandy when you can tell it`s not by the Cockpit conversation and the way he qualifies. If others brake down or do stupid mistakes that`s not his fault but i still don`t rate him as high as Schumacher, Alonso or Hamilton when it comes to setting up a car. Still hope he wins the championship though... I wish they could give em some overtaking chances though :-( |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
I don't think anyone could confuse him with those. But I am very torn between Barrichello and Button. On one hand it would be justification for Rubens's hard work and dedication within the sport to win, I truly belive this is his last chance for glory. On the other hand, I really would like to see Button win, He has struggled with poor engineering and a lack of support from many quarters and deserves to win the championship, but I fear his efforts will go the same way as DC's.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8280566.stm
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I'd like to see Kimi in a McLaren and I think he'll be a good partner to Lewis as they'll both work well off each other |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Chris Hollins on Breakfast screwed up then. He said Mika Hakkinen is ready to go the McClaren. :D
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Mika said on Sunday that he's not returning to F1. I reckon he'd be up to speed given a week or 2's solid testing. :D
Kimi going to Macca's not a bad move, as Ferrari don't seem to be moving forward and McLaren are on the up, especially with the current car. Provided they don't make a dog like the 2006 car, they'll be a real contender. |
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I doubt I'ld Massa will race in F1 again.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Massa will race in F1, question is when, not if. I personally think Ferrari are just reaching to the fans to give them confidence because it's very unlikely he'll be in the car before next season, even in straight-line tests.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
the rules for next year are exactly the same apart from no refueling and gentlemen agreement not to use KERS so any aero work they do can go on the 09 car for testing
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Massa has been back, testing, on go-karts.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Possibly 'cos they don't have any suspension.
;) |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
After that qually session I think we could be on for a record. The grid with most penalties, Blockig, passing under yellow, fastest time under yellow. Noramlly all punishable.......
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
It was certainly worth getting up at 5.00am to watch qualifying.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Not sure on the blocking - didn't really see any.
Passing under yellow - Alonso? If so, he should be fine as Buemi was moving very slowly as he had a problem which afaik allows overtaking "Racing" under yellow - Could be harsh but those are the rules, was it Q2 or Q3 where a lot of people only did 1 lap? |
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Drivers that are demoted 5 grid places for various actions.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Follow up from crashagte, Piquet is going to test one of the NASCAR Craftsman Pickup trucks. Boy will he get a shock out there. Good luck......
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
It appears that Rosberg has avoided a penalty.
Rosberg escapes safety car penalty Perhaps all drivers should use the fuel gauge excuse. Funny how he didn't happen to mention that when he was interviewed just after the race. I gained no advantage - Rosberg |
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A pragmatic response methinks. M |
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Timo is out of the Brazilian GP due to damaging his spine int he crash during the Japan GP qualifying.. I wonder who (if anyone) they'll get to jump in.. Surely not NP Jr as it will be his home crowd!!! ;)
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http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...11101231.shtml |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Just as you thought "Crashgate" was yesterdays news Massa has now gone on record as saying it it incredible not to think Alonso was not involved. :rolleyes:
He then says that "What is certain is that this episode will not mar in any way the relationship I'll have with Fernando when we will be team-mates." :erm: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79435 Bring on the racing ! ---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ---------- Quote:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79250 |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Aah, I see. So, as long as one doesn't do anything that may compromise safety, the rules don't matter. I wonder if they could apply that retrospectively. It would have meant that the penalty that Hamilton received earlier this year for passing another car may not have happened; seeing as it didn't compromise any safety. Then there is the speeding in the pit lanes, crossing the white line at the end of the pit exit, overtaking at yellow flags after passing the incident. None of these compromise safety most of the time, so they should be allowed to get away with it.
I know it's a far fetched argument, but valid none the same. If JB had known he could have got away with, by not compromising safety, he could have taken the advantage. There are reasons for rules and the most important one is that when the rules are followed, everyone is on a level playing field. If the rules can be as flexible as this, it makes a mockery of the sport (in my opinion, of course). |
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Thinking back to the pitlane error at Singapore, Yes Rosberg crossed the white line but he then went back behind the line, did not impede anyone and did not gain an advantage. To be penalised for that seems mighty harsh to me. I would much rather we see teams, drivers and officials apply the spirit of the regulations and consider if it was deliberate or if an advantage was gained. At Spa Raikonnen seemed to habitually cross the white line on the exit of La Source to gain an advantage. M |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Rosberg crossing the white line was a harsh penalty, but the rules state its an automatic penalty and you can't go ignoring the rules.
The time delta incident afaik doesn't incur an automatic penalty but requires a stewards investigation. If the driver can not see the time delta, it's unrealistic to expect him to go slower than it so they went off telemetry to make sure he slowed down, which he did, and so it was determined he did all he could / was necessary. I think in his short interview with the BBC he said the amount he was off by was only a small amount and so it's unlikely he did drive too fast at any point. |
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It is the lack of consistency that is ruining the reputation of the sport. The sooner they change the way they police the sport, the better.
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Spa still bugs me.......I am sure Raikonnen left the race track on the exit of La Source, multiple time, and gained an advantage each time. When Webber did that at Singapore he got a drive through. Niether of those were pitlane transgressions they were boundary of the racetrack transgressions. Arghh |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
But you forget the Ferrari rule. :rolleyes: :D
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A deliberate typo John Todt??:D |
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JT is just a MM clone.. My vote and hope is that Ari Vatanen gets it
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
The FIA could be in trouble here because it's been discovered they have been lobbying for Todt.
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Now that doesn't suprise me one bit... MM seems to want him in so all his cronies follow suite :(
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
I wonder how many people are collecting their thoughts about the way they voted on this thread; I certainly am.
Vettel and Webber go no votes at all and Barrichello and Button only got three, Hamilton got fifteen. :shocked: |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
I voted Kubica as I think that he has great possibilities, it'll be interesting with him in a new team next year..
The voting though could not take into account the diffuser situation :) |
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Nor KERS it would seem. :p:;)
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I voted for Button before the first race. It looks like he's going to wait until the last race to prove my faith in him though.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
on the front page of the FIA website is a picture of Jean Todt and also one for his girlfriend. Jean also gets to travel to places and canvas for votes using the FIA private jet as well as Max writting several letters to all FIA members saying they should vote for Max
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---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 ---------- Quote:
How wrong was I ................................................ All else beign equal Nico has had a pretty good run I think.;) |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
I went with Barrichello, but a part of me wants Button to win so that England has 2 consecutive world championships at last. The last time Brits were really successful, it was the 1960s. '62 G. Hill, '63 J. Clark, '64 J. Surtees, '65 J. Clark.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Live qualifying in BBC in10 mins
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Yep, final practice was a wash-out, I really do hope it's a wet qualifying and race.. We need some fun in the sport :D
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Rain has suspended play
---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ---------- go, go, go, go, |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Q1 - Vettel out
Rubens and Jenson through to Q2 |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Whats BBC gonna cancel :)
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Q1 results could be the final grid!
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Moved to BBC 2
---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:32 ---------- going again 1:10 later ---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:11 ---------- Bugger ---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ---------- Double bugger |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
What was Jenson doing not going to intermediates, then blaming 'the team'.
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Maybe Ross Brawn doesn't want jenson to win the title, only my thought.
Look at it this way, Jenson is currently negotiating a new contract because his current one runs out this year. It's been quoted he wants more money this time because when Ross took over Jenson stayed with him but agreed to take a drop in wages. There is also the fact that if Jenson was to win the title then he has a good case for loads more money, which it is doubtful if Ross has the money to spare. Rubens it is said is going to Williams and it has been said on Planet F1 that he is getting a much bigger pay rise at Williams. With the amount of experience that Ross Brawn has, how indeed did he make such a rediculous decision with the tyres. |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
Exciting so far!
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WOAW FIRE.
Good to see that team remove the hose from Kov's car. Button jumps to 9th ---------- Post added at 17:17 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ---------- 7th ---------- Post added at 17:37 ---------- Previous post was at 17:17 ---------- 4th |
Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
More action in this race than the rest put together!
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Barrichello has problems, and as this stand Button done it.
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Puncture! What a nightmare for him.
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Re: Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
:cleader::cleader: Button is Formula 1World Champion Brawn Constructors :cleader::cleader: The last time a rookie team won construtors was in the very first season when they were all rookies |
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