Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I didn't mention my area/platform previously because it's at the side of my posting. <--

I'm what used to be ex-NTL/ex-C&W on Bromley platform but as we're NGTV now in Aylesbury, I don't know if that still applies in terms of what box I can have (e.g. Pace, Samsung, Cisco). It would be nice to be future-proofed for IPTV and a Cisco box (I didn't know there was one) sounds like it would be.

I'm on TV Size: XL already so if I report the fault and ask for a V+ or V HD box as a replacement, surely that would be a no-cost option. Can I opt for self-install and avoid any fees (other than somehow returning the old box)?

I'm not looking for something for nothing, just the best option at the lowest cost and minimum of disruption for now. I don't have a HD TV yet and the second room isn't ready for use.

Are the V+ and V HD boxes both PVR devices with the only distinction being that one supports HD?

---------- Post added at 11:27 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Somewhat more On Topic ...

I have recently seen a piece of white domestic co-ax connected, using two F plugs and a back-to-back adapter, to the co-ax of a VM Siamese Twin cable with the telephone wires left exposed and dangling and with no wall mounted plastic junction box to be seen, just the twin cable coming directly out of the ground. The white cable runs up to a hole in the wall of what I'd guess is a flat over a commercial premises (take-away) here in Aylesbury.

Should I report this or can I assume that the recent NGTV/Nagra3 upgrades will take care of any theft of service (either TV or Broadband)?

How would I go about reporting it either on-line or by telephone?

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Have any chipped boxes in the Manchester area gone down yet?

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Noy yet. Normally takes between 2 and 3 weeks before VM start switching the old system off

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

It cannot come quickly enough ;). I will enjoy watch the fallout from it

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

dfd

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Stockport is about to start.:D

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

My part of Manchester hasn't started getting the cards yet unfortunately, can't come soon enough

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Been hearing the rumours about a new card for a while now, I live in bolton when are we likley to see one here

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

My part of essex (Harlow) has not started getting the cards yet either wish they would hurry up a work colleague of mine has a chipped box to get the premiership football on sky sports cannot wait to see his face when he realises he will have to pay hopefully by next season.:)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Anyone know when Blackburn or Burnley are being switched?

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

There not rumours. Not sure about the roll out for all of the North West but it will not be that far off.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Speaking of rumours, I was speaking to a chap last night who has a dodgy box and he said he will just get a chipped card when his box goes off :confused:

But I thought N3 couldnt be bypassed, or at least not yet anyway.:shocked:

I do hope he was talking a load of old twaddle

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Oh he was definitely talking twaddle, N3 is still secure. :D

Let the fun begin. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/05/59.gif

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

There is NO card hack for N3. It has been used in Europe and the states for 3 years now and its still secure. There are traders out there that are desperate to sell there remaining stock and most are about to be left with boxes that are useless :LOL:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I'm in Stockport and haven't received my card yet. :o I'll let you know when my card drops through the letter box THEN you can switch Stockport ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Derby has had new cards for a while now and looking on gumtree Derby a few weeks back it was flooded with Dbox2's Starview, funcards etc... some dirt cheap some £200 claiming to still be working hahaha

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I live in Harlow as well (Near The Shark Pub), and I have received the update channels, but now waiting for the new (Red) cards.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

You can point and laugh especially when the messages start to come on the screen asking him to call up, and finally the last message which cannot be removed again asking them to call up if they want service.:D

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

As i posted earlier we got the pop up and then the new cards, then there was a article in the local paper warning people about people buying dodgy boxes.

So all i have to say on the subject is pay for your services you [Mod Edit (Rob M): Removed].

We are all laughing at you sad gits now we cann all watch the world cup in HD on virgign and by natural methods.

Hope this offends all the people that have been stealing services who look at the forum:D

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

the new transport streams have been running along side the old ones in bolton for a couple of months now.bolton is now, (AT LEAST), on the official list for card posting but as yet not given a date.

after that its the 1st channel drop,followed by the 2nd drop (usually a week later) then,barring any complete failures,the old transport streams get ditched then the new streams,supported by nagra3 take over broadcast wholly,and its goodbye to all the thievin spongin g***y basterds!!! :cool:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

:clap:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Thank you ROB M i was unsure if that was taking it too far, but thank you for putting that straight. Cheers again and thank you but that is how i feel:D

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Thanks Sirius, Joglynne and Masque, for restoring my faith :D, now all that's left is for vm to drop all the cloned modems.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Wen is Middlesbrough going to be updated to N3? I know of a number of people with this Boxes.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Good, I guessed as much when a message flashed up on the screen about new cards the other morning when I switched the box on.

Now maybe people with chipped boxes will start to believe what I've been telling them since before Christmas!

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I often wonder if the people who copy music CDs would steal one from a shop if they thought they might be caught!

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Your wish is VM's command ;) Watch this space :)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

:tu: ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Excellent news guys and gals, Excellent news :D

All of us paying for our slice of bandwidth stand a much better chance of receiving it, once all the thieving *******s are kicked of vm's network.

see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya :waving:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

A certain somone near me does not seem too happy, must be missing his Skysports.:) Trouble is these people don't regard it as theft

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I know, they think it's their right to have it for nothing :rolleyes:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Copying or downloading media isn't theft, it's copyright infringement which is a civil not a criminal offence. ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

i went into someones home the other day and they had 2 starview boxes, (i reconised them straight away!!)
but i played the blind man and asked what they where and the guy said they was cable freeview boxes?? but they didn't work any longer, when i asked them why both had stopped working, they said something along the lines of "we are hoping a new update is going to be released soon" at that point i couldn't hold back any longer and burst out laughing and said your just going to have to start paying for your services now or get freeview/freesat and the guy said yeah but i won't get sky sports on that though will i !! no not without paying for it :rofl::rofl: .

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Setting aside the fact that your point is moot given the legal interpretation of theft;

Section 4(1) (of Section 1(1) of the Theft Act 1968 (TA 1968)

"Property" includes money and all other property, real or personal, including things in action and other intangible property.

GENERAL

• Things in action are rights which can only be enforced by taking legal action, as they have no physical existence. For example, a man owes £ 500 to a company. This debt is a chose in action. It exists in the sense that the company could actually sell it to somebody else, who would then have the right to collect the money from the man.
• Other examples of intangible property are copyrights, trademarks and patents. However, confidential information has been held to fall outside the definition of property:

On that basis what distinction do you make between people illegally downloading programmes (thieves) and those who illegally access programmes (thieves) and how, given the definition in law as clearly defined in the statute quoted above, do you arrive at that distinction?

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

The thing is, a lot of people think of some scrote going up into a small shop, and nicking something from the shelf as theft. They may even think of someone going in to dixons and walking out with an iPod without paying as theft. A certain group think it's alright to nick as a large company wouldn't notice the tiny amount of money you would have spent is missing (in general this is true, but if enough people nick, it's a problem - ask the people who worked for On Digital).

There is also the problem that some people argue that you can only nick physical products. This is most certainly not true.

Having said all that, while I am not a broadband subscriber, so am not affected directly by cable theft (unless someone hooks up a dodgy DTV box and it causes inteference on the network), I can see it can cause problems for VM and I like the service provided by VM, so I'd like them to stay at least vaguely solvent. Which isn't going to happen if too many people nick DTV and Broadband services.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

The thing is society is made up of 2 different groups. Those that are prepared to steal and bend the rules and those that are not. The first group can come up with reasons to justify what they do to themselves and try to use it on others. Whether is is a guy who steals cable or downloads an MP3 both are in effect stealing something with finanical value from somebody.

I still believe the majority however fall into the second group and on the main want to be "upstanding citizens" and the like. You only have to see the queues in Game and Gamestation on a weekend seeing how many DS games are being sold or Xbox 360 or Nintendo Wii games all of which can be attained illicitly very easily. The same can be said of music there is still billions being thrown into the music industry the artists and the reconrd companies still make money by the barrowload.

The only difference I see with VM theft of service if the fact it can effect the regular user. I never used to think the tv could really cause a problem until I was informed modified cable boxes sometimes had to have chips sweated off so something could be done instead of just the return path cut and a cloned card which I thought was all that was done prior( ta sirus) However I still think 3rd party boxes if Eurovox Starview Dbox have little impact on the network. All the power to VM though for finally sorting it out but I seriously want to see an end of modem clones ( although I do realise its on the cards)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

The boxes themselves don't have to have talkback disconnected. Having talk-back disconnected doesn't cause any issues to other subcribers. To prevent the modified boxes from talking back a noise blocker could be fitted to the line to accomplish this. Hence the name "noise blocker" ----no interverence...

Modding the Rom card also doenst cause any issues as well and in some cases the card doesnt have to be touched at all.

Third party boxes are mostly made the same way as the pace and sammy boxes are made. Using much the same hardware, dvb-c, for all intent in purposes its a virgin box with FTA.

Modems on the other hand are different and if it wasnt for vm badly implented network then it wouldnt and shouldnt have been an issue.

When all is said and done, boxes are going down, channels are going black but as always its swings and roundabouts. People move on to the next thing.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Not a lot to move onto.. D+ has been secure since N3 and Sky has it's NDS system. Nothing really else English language..

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

"Secure" isn't really the term I'd use.

Cardsharing is going to get a massive rise in popularity, there isn't currently a system that isn't vulnerable to it, and people will start to wonder why they ever bothered with their dodgy cable boxes in the first place.

The upfront cost will make people think twice, but the ones that turn to it (or see it in action at their mates) will never look back. Sure there's is a fair learning curve above "plug in a box and it'll work", but even that element is going to cardsharing now as well with several boxes being sold with built in connections to a cardsharing server. Hell you can get a motorised dish with a box that's plug and play cardsharing for <£250 that will open up more than enough packages to keep most people happy, including access to 3-4 3pm kick offs on a saturday, and lets be honest, most people with dodgy boxes are in it for the sports. Those that want the UK channels will likely be happy to pay for a payserver which will give then full Sky HD package for peanuts.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

But that is not how it was done in the beginning is it. There was :D Plenty of the original boxes out there that had to have had the atermels lifted to gain the box number. If they were not replaced correctly or the tuner replaced correctly then they did make noise on the network.


I have seen the noise on the network that dodgy boxes make via the tools in the headends and hubsites. The noise blockers were made for the problem of noisey boxes out in the field were do you think they came from in the first place

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Yes but cardsharing is risky as it's ever so easy to close the card down.. Especially with VM as the card is always linked to an account/address.. Same with Sky (at least in this country)

I think the next step will be making account details and the customers more dependable and liable.. Also they need to proactively start monitoring the CS sites and killing the card numbers available..

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

A few people in court for card sharing would do it. Not the dealers the users.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I haven't read up extensively on how card-sharing works but, as I keep saying here and elsewhere, it's not going to be possible to do that sort of thing with a cable network, especially after we go IPTV.

I presume that, for card-sharing to work, the viewing card and it's paired set-top-box serial number both have to be spoofed. Because of the one-way broadcast nature of the satellite systems, it's easy to clone an STB and its viewing card. Not so easy on a cabled set-up if your STB has to have a unique MAC and IP address.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

The thing is that cardsharing relies on an internet connection, As ISP's will soon have to monitor connections for sharing of copyright material what's the bet that it'll eventually be extended to card sharing data ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Remember, that a lot of the record company profits go to discovering, developing and promoting new artists. If they wish to maintain the same level of dividend to shareholders with less turnover and profit, something has to go!

Football players are grossly overpaid, often to their own detriment, and team strips are obscenely expensive, change every year and have sponsorship and advertising on them already. It still doesn't excuse pilfering a shirt or not paying to see a game. Stealing Sky Sports is the same as jumping the turnstile at your local club. You are just less likely to get caught with illegally obtained Sky Sports, so it doesn't seem as risky.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

IPTV is a long way off, and even then we'll likely never go full IPTV, but SDV, and due to the nature of the cable network you'll always have some channels available as it's a broadcast tree network, not a unicast one, so everyone on the same branch would have access to the channels everyone else on the branch was watching. But like I said, you'd be a fool to do it on cable when you can do it on satellite and get so much more. My point isn't that people will move on to using cardsharing on cable, but that "there's not much left out there" is entirely wrong, the satellite scene is alive and kicking and is going to get a huge boost from this. There's probably satellite installers all around the country rubbing their hands together at the prospect of installing a huge amount of motorised systems.

Nothing has to be spoofed for people using cardsharing, all that happens is the cardsharing clients send the encrypted ECM to the cardsharing server, which uses a valid card to decrypted them, then returns the unencypted keys to the cardsharing client. The Viewing cards aren't that traceable as any commands sent from remote clients that would identify them are dropped, the only thing they'll do is decode ECMs and return the CSA codewords.

As for it being easily traceable, make the connection over SSL and it doesn't matter what sort of monitoring the ISP is doing they aren't going to find out what's in it.

Essentially the point is that there's always going to be something for the people that want something for nothing. N3 might stop a huge amount of the casual infringer, but the people who are set on getting their TV for free, well, they'll still be getting their TV for free.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I thought that, with BSkyB, you had to marry your viewing card to the box for any premium channels and that there was a procedure to follow if you took your card with you on holiday and wanted to use it at the resort.

Personally I usually just take the wife!

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

You;re never gonna beat them all, but CS tends to be technical where as a dodgy box bought from someone up the pub wasn't.. I think that the N3 rollout will get rid of about 90% of people without a valid subscription for the channels they watch

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

You do, if you're using it in a legit STB. But several of the cam emulators can bypass this and emulate the boxkey and let the card recieve updates.

Indeed, but as more alternative routes are being shut down there's a definite shift towards boxes with built in cardsharing that are plug and play. You see some of the Cable ones now coming with it for n3, and there's been a huge amount of satellite stbs released in the past year with it as well. One of the main selling points for them is their inclusion of access to a cardsharing server, which begs the question how they can openly sell them online in the first place.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I rather doubt that any of them will be connected to the Virginmedia network as they will just have a "Call us if you want to continue viewing" message on the screen that cannot be removed which will be very funny.;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Never used it in a CS role but I've had a DVB-S reciever for the last 3 years that although doesn't come out of the box CS ready is very easily imaged for decrypt and CS (share and server) by the use of a simple 3rd party image file It's a Relook Mutant which uses a linux based firmware and I mainly got it as it has an ethernet port that allows me with another 3rd party image to use it as a stream to PC as well as Stream from PC (like my KISS dvd player also does)

So the systems are not exactly new but I do agree that this N3 release will push more and more people towards that end of the market.. Let's hope that VM takes a stance of actively finding the servers and taking direct action to thier removal from the internet. (at least with CS they can hunt them down unlike dodgy boxes)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

TheDon is absolutely right.

There are already people in VM's N3 areas receiving the channels through card sharing. VM's N3 is, so far, as vulnerable to CS as every other implementation.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

At least the majority will lose their free TV which is still quite funny especially if they have paid a lot of money for the box.;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Not really as they've probably saved 10 times the amount on not paying a subscription.. :rolleyes:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

They are still selling the boxes and telling their customers that the new box cannot be blocked by NAGRA3 so those people are the ones to laugh at when the pretty warning screens start to appear and they have no comeback.

The long term users of these boxes will be asked to call in if they want their services back which would a nice call to take if they have the bottle to actually call.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

So easy to laugh at people who some perhaps don't even realise that they are commiting a crime.. Throughout all this thread people have been jumping on the end users where in fact the people who deserve the most contempt are the people selling these boxes (which included a lot of VM employees :( )

Can the CS people answer me a question.. Have you ever had anyone ring up and complain their box isn't working where the box turns out to be chipped??

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I would like to ask a question.

Virginmedia AKA NTL, They have never persuaded a customer into signing something or entering a contract under false pretense? I can list numerous cases if you wish me to go on.........

Back on Topic..

CS has been around for years, I used **** about 3-4 years ago, obviously there is a bigger contender now (which I wont go into as this site is anti piracy) and Sky has used various counter meassures with their new "White Card" and still the main Cam Emulator has worked around this.

Reality is CS will be coming to Cable, this will start like the original Cable "Hacks" did where the wise and clever knew how to work it and done it themselve`s. The trouble begins where there is a profit to be made and 1-2 years time Chinese factories will be knocking out CS Cable Box`s left, right and centre.


I would like to also congratulate Kymmy for his balanced views and judgement on this thread :gpoint:


Oh whilst i`m Ravin ;) can we stop calling the Box`s chipped, they are not chipped, they are modified firmware/cards..


Oh and Hello to all, i`ve been here reading for a few years but now felt compelled to comment

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------

Can you clarify this question?

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

HIS??????

Also I've removed the names of the software as we don't normally like to provide to much details on how to get round subscription ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I do feel contempt for the sellers but everyone who buys a chipped box does so in full knowledge that they have bought the box in order to steal services from Virginmedia, so when that box becomes a doorstop it will be amusing.

I believe that they would be unlikely to call TV faults if the box went off, but in the areas that are now receiving the new cards they start to get nagging messages advising them that their service will soon stop and a few weeks after rollout a permanent message blocking the screen appears and each of these screens give them a freephone number to call if they want to become a paying customer.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Sorry missed your edit, My question is based on the fact that a lot of people buy a "modified firmware" box thinking that it is legal.. Not everyone is technical not do they know the law hence my viewpoint about getting rid of the suppliers but was also wondering how many "ignorant" people are around

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Oh your a Laaaadddyyyy :dozey:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

It is called NAGRA3 and has been around for 3 years uncracked so much for the clever chinese.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Actually NO, (see above answer) How many people do we get on here buying boxes from ebay (non "chipped") thinking it'll work on the network, we even have members who have been round for a bit asking about 2nd modems and if one from ebay will work...

Not everyone has the knowledge that a lot of people within this thread has, nor does everyone (again as discussed before ) realise that it is illegal..

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------

I've been called worse... It normally starts with B ;) and has nothing to do with the bike I ride!!!! :D:D:D

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Personally I would say people who buy "Modified Equipment" know what they are getting into.

The reality is if someone can save £30 - £70 a month in outgoings it takes little persusion :erm:

Just also to clarify, I don`t dabble in any dodgy cable equipment, I have a paid Sat sub with a big motoriesed dish :D

---------- Post added at 18:35 ---------- Previous post was at 18:33 ----------

Don`t get me started on bikes, I just failed my Mod 1 on that frigin manouvere speed thingy :mad:

I only have a Kawasaki Er 500, i`m scared of using soemthing bigger :D

Anyway, I won`t go off topic anymore

---------- Post added at 18:37 ---------- Previous post was at 18:35 ----------

Yes Nagra 3 which I receive from my big sat dish via CS, so yes not fully open but is being CS as we type..

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

He's not talking about Cracking N3 but a perhaps prolific rise in CS capable recievers

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Yes we have all had someone with a modem calling in as they have either bought it or got it from a friend and they want to use it as a second extension, we just advise them that it cannot be added to their account as it would not actually work and that it is also classed as stolen goods.

We then advise them to get a router for the extra connection required.

No idea what happens if someone calls in on the TV side with a box from Ebay, I expect that they will be told a similar tale and would be advised to speak to Sales if they want a box in another room.

I know that our engineers can and do confiscate illegal boxes when they get called out for a fault of any type,

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

And they`ve also been known to fit em ;)

But back on track, Virginmedia aka NTL should of nailed this 4 years ago, they had stuck with Nagra 1 for so long...

TopupTv had the right idea, they adopted Nagra 3 from the off....

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

My little black scooter is a KWAK as well (GPz900R), In pieces atm for a rebuild whilst I redesign the fairing.. ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Yes that will be an interesting one for them to work on cable, it is supposed to be fairly easy on SKY.

With our system though we see both the card and the box and they must match in order to work as we have to provision them with each other.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Even if the box isn't an original NTL/TW/VM one? If so are they now guilty of theft themselves??

Having the equipment isn't illegal just recieving subscription content without paying is ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I peronally will like to reply to this in 1 Years times..... ;)

Never Say Never :p:

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

Oh very nice, so what did you hit ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Yep, I think though Masque is forgetting that most machines capable of CS are also capable of spoofing a machine ID, it's nothing like having a firmware modified NTL/VM box and in the end although it will reduce the number of dodgy boxes about will not kill the hard core people..

Makes you wonder why VM then has devoted time and effort with N3 when IPTV is probably a lot more likely to reduce the non-subscription viewers to zero??

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Nothing, just got tired of the black and gold so I thought whilst I did the rebuild I'd do a redesign at the same time.. In the mean time I have use of one of the works bikes (super tenere)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

If the box cannot be taken then I expect that all their services would be frozen until the box is removed which takes care of that.;)

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

No one has cracked it in 3 years so they are taking their time.;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

And at that point is when we get a post from their next door neighbour that they've discovered another cable in thier outside box going into next doors property :D

It all begs the question as to how many people ever get prosecuted for "theft of services" in relation to digital TV ??? :(

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

Again, CS isn't cracking and doesn't involve the creation of a cracked N3 key, instead it's about sharing already valid keys/card details and box ID's via a network.. :rolleyes:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I know about that but as we are talking about 2 different items I meant NAGRA3 and should have said so in that post.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I`m not saying it will get cracked, i`m saying I will reply in 1 Years time, by that time i`m sure some form of CS on cable will be prolific and if it takes Virginmedia aka NTL the same time it has took to combat the mass piracy on it`s network for at least the past 4 years then god help em...

And if we are going to split hairs with Nagra 3 crack opposed to CS, CS is manipultaion of the card to get working ECM`s, hence in my eyes is classed as cracked as the system is compromissed to allow Pirate viewing, yes counter EMM`s will be developed but like I said, SKY (NDS) have tried this..


As a side note, i`m seeing a vision, Nagra 3 in Armour riding up on his horse :dozey:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Which is EXACTLY the same as sky's white card, which works perfectly with CS, software cams have been able to emulate boxkeys for years.

Make no mistake, people in n3 areas are using cardsharing to view n3 channels as we speak.

Depending on the box, that could be true. Some of the well known 3rd party boxes just needs a dongle to enable cardsharing, and as of now there's not much you can do to stop it.

Seriously, no one needs to crack n3, as long as the codewords can be decrypted from the ECM and then read by someone then it's open season. Be that by emulating the stb's boxkey, or if improvements are made in future that stop the smartcards working in 3rd party cams, reading them direct from memory. The weak link here isn't the encryption, it's that the CAS codewords HAVE to exist at some point in plain text.

The copyright act gives broadcasters certain powers in seizure and forfeiture of infringing receivers, it is probably covered by that (but IANAL).

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

But his original post that you responded to was about CS, no-one here (including talktalkfan) has said that N3 will be cracked :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Nothing to do with the copyright act, Theft of digital broadcast services is part of the telecommunications act :p: I do though understand what you mean but I doubt that a tech will be empowered as such, he is though empowered to disconnect the home from cable if the need arises

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Incorrect. It's EVERYTHING to do with the copyright act.

Section 297 is where the offence of fraudulent reception of television services is covered, and the following section is the one that gives the right of seizure to broadcasters.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I stand corrected :clap: now you;ve got me thinking as to what I recently read in the datacomms act :doh:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

With regards seizure of equipment you would need one of the technicians to tell you what they can do if they see illegal equipment on an account.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I would of thought a court warrant at least would be needed..

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

my former boss was prosecuted by Telewest/Virgin Media for selling dodgy boxes.
I worked for him at a PC store as a salesman and tech (there was only 4 of us)

the police raided the business on a quiet tuesday afternoon as part of Operation Kilohertz.
three of us were arrested (4th was on day off and wasnt arrested), we were taken and held for around 7 hrs before being questioned by people from NTL/Telewest along with a police officer and legal rep (if required)
I had no idea that my boss was doing this sort of thing, I just worked there.
At the time I lived with my Dad who was a virgin media customer.
as the property wasnt my own, they couldnt ask me for permission to search the place and would need a warrant.
they didnt bother.
I was released on bail for 9 months and when I returned was told I was being let go with no further action.
my 3 colleagues were re-arrested again and by this time Virgin Media had acquired Telewest NTL.
it went to trial and my former boss was prosecuted for £40,000, 12 months suspended for 12 months and 300hrs community service.
my fellow tech was also prosecuted but only given a 12 month supervision order.
he left the company during the trial too.

not long after I was made redundant.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Sounds nasty, actually sounds more like guilty until proven inocent :td:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Read the link in this post from above.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35031363-post880.html

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

One would also hope that the system can detect two boxes or cards with the same id. active at the same time. In terms of a purely computer network, two MAC or IP addresses cannot exist simultaneously on the same network. Even pre-IPTV, there must be a parallel to this in a cable TV environment. Of course, detection of duplicate or spoofed ids. isn't possible with unicast satellite systems. Return-path strikes again!
Ah but now that Nagra3 is available on the VM network, it gives more motive, means and opportunity to those who wish to try cracking it!

Some additional points as I do my morning catch-up:-

Posts are now alternately referring to Customer Service and Card Sharing as CS. :confused:

I think the number of people who innocently buy modified cable boxes is very small or even insignificant. People who know little about technology tend to buy from a reliable source, even if it means paying full retail price. The advent of auction sites such as eBay has, perhaps, caused some people to 'buy the wrong thing' but, in the case of cable boxes, these are the ones who will innocently call VM and find out their mistake quite quickly. Yes, target the manufacturers, customisers and sellers of these 'after market' boxes (I like that! ;)) but almost all of the users of these boxes are guilty of, at a minimum, buying something from a suspect source that would indicate to them that it was stolen or in some way illegal or dubious at best.

VM have only just completed the merger of their disparate cable franchises and rolled out NGTV to all. This is the first real opportunity that they have had as a single entity to roll out Nagra3 across the whole network. Doing it any earlier as NTL and Telewest separately would have been more complex and more costly.

Nagravision Merlin is also known as Nagravision 3 - Now that's what I call magic!

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

With a cardsharing client you don't need to spoof anything though. You have one "legitimate" reciever that runs the cardsharing server which decrypts the ECMs, and the rest aren't visible on the network as they don't talk back.

Satellite isn't unicast, which is a directed signal from one point to another, it's broadcast. Cable is STILL broadcast, despite the physical network and even under a full IPTV system will still be broadcast as the cable coming into your home is part of a shared branch in a tree network. That means that there will always be something on the wire that an STB can gain access to, even if it's just the same channels your neighbours are watching after a switch to SDV.

Not really, the UK market is relatively small compared to the European one which already uses N3. It doesn't even need to be cracked, as long as they cardsharing works then they're not going to care if it's cracked or not. Infact, people will be happy it's not because if it's cracked they profit from the upfront STB cost only, with cardsharing they can charge recurring subscriptions for access to the cardsharing server, so there's potentially more money to be made from it.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

May as well sign up with VM then - at least when the service fails you know who to moan at ;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

With CS it`s usually 1/4 of the price (well on Satelite it is) which will probably sway things.

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 ----------

I already have.

"(2)
No such Order shall be made unless it appears to Her Majesty that provision has been or will be made under the laws of that country or territory giving adequate protection to persons making charges for programmes included in broadcasting or cable programme services provided from the United Kingdom or, as the case may be, for encrypted transmissions sent from the United Kingdom."

So yes an order would need to be given..

Seems like you like the last say no matter how you/things look;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

It was another poster who posted that link not me.;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

That's from an entirely different section though?

The "order" that's on about is:

Which means that it's possible for sections 297 and 298 to apply to foreign broadcasters.

It has NOTHING to do with seizure of equipment.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

So please explain post #888 ?

Was you not trying to tell me a court warrant wasn`t needed as thats how I read it??

Instead of trying to out word/do me please read what you have written...:dunce:

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Post 888 is by Felim Doyle, not me;)

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I think he meant this quote which you have to admit was quite a broad comment to make without clarification

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Just to further clarify the legality on seizing anything, it's stated it's the same as seizing copyright material in section 100.

This reads:

That clearly states that anything that they'll be entitled to get a court order for the delivery up of, can be seized by the rights holder, OR A PERSON AUTHORISED BY HIM. Technicians would easily fall in to that category.

The first hurdle we get to is "subject to any decision of the court under section 114." does that mean you need a court order? Nope, it means that any seizure is subject to a later decision by the court under section 114.

Then we see the only qualifier on when a seizure can be made: "Before anything is seized under this section notice of the time and place of the proposed seizure must be given to a local police station." So, all you have to do is give notice to a local police station. You could easily pop out to the van, give the local station a call, and give notice that you'll be seizing the STB. That seizure is then subject to a decision by the court, where they can order the STB destroyed or if they feel it's not infringing returned to the owner.

So in short, you do not need a court order to make the seizure.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I go with The Don's answer.

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I think though paragraph 3 would stop the seizure as a house is not public access, the rule in general was brought in for seizure of materials at places like markets, car-boot sales...etc.. Where the public has access to, a house is private.. (same as a business if the person in question also owns the business)

Masque I don't understand why you keep trying to squirm your way out of the comment which in essence is an honest mistake..

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

Nope, because it doesn't state you can ONLY seize where the public has access. If you couldn't carry out the right in a domestic property it would be exempted in the same way as business premises are in that section.

Except a market or car boot qualify as "a permanent or regular place of business of his" and is actually exempted by that section so you can't seize there!

Re: All Chipped Cable Boxes Going Down
 

I have seen account notes where a box has been taken from the property and the account holder has ordered new boxes with much more in depth notes regarding what actually happened, of course I cannot say much more about that due to DPA.

I think I got slightly confused above with all the variations and comments.:dunce: