Re: WWE
 

I've just lost faith in WWE being able to pull the trigger on something like that.

When you hear that the plan for this angle was for HHH to pedigree CM Punk and Del Rio to cash in, and that the arch being ended like that is pretty much a when not an if, it doesn't really do much to give you much faith that it's the start of the change that's needed.

It's obvious Del Rio is going to be champion before the Mexican tour, so it's just a matter of when and how that switch happens, and if it goes Via Cena.

Re: WWE
 

Already told you the Cena Heel turn is incoming.

Getting good at preditcting things.. Either I am awesome or WWE is really that bad nowadays.

Re: WWE
 

Very good at predicting things...if you count the kind of things everyone else has been predicting for months....

Re: WWE
 

So we both agree WWE is just that predictable?

Re: WWE
 

We can agree Cena will eventually be turning heel, that much is a given.

Re: WWE
 

WWE have released Vladimir Koslov, Melina, DH Smith and Chris Masters. Gail Kim has also left.

Re: WWE
 

undertaker coming back in October Cart wait

Re: WWE
 

Where have you read this mate? I've been waiting ages for his return, and I assumed it would be at SummerSlam as it seems to be a bit of a tradition nowadays.

Re: WWE
 

sorry forgot to add a link.



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...tober-PPV.html

Re: WWE
 

Cheers :tu:

Re: WWE
 

I think they're giving his hair a chance to grow back a bit...

Re: WWE
 

Terry Gene Bollea better known by his ring name Hulk Hogan is 58 years old today,

Re: WWE
 

thanks for that media boy.

happy birthday hulk

Re: WWE
 

:LOL: at "Sin Cara" on smackdown this week.

Re: WWE
 

CM Punk pins Cena

Kevin Nash lays out Punk

Del Rio cashes in and Becomes WWE champion..

Awesome.

Also note the Cena rage quit (Exiting the ring)

Heel turn for Cena.
Del Rio Heel
Nash Heel

Couldnt be any better than that! But I bet they sneak Cena out of this whole thing regardless of the fact he lost that match unfairly.

Re: WWE
 

I'm guessing Del Rio/Mysterio tonight then Punk/Del Rio at Night of Champions.

Re: WWE
 

Yeah it could be.
That was literally the worst ending ever.

Who actually got put over in that match?

Cena didn't, he lost to CM Punk
CM Punk didn't, he didn't win clean as Cena's foot was on the rope, and he lost the title.
Alberto Del Rio didn't, because he needed Kevin ****ing Nash to put CM Punk in the position for a cash in.

No one walked away from that match looking good. Extremely bad booking.

Now on Raw we get Mysterio going up against a guy two times removed from the guy who beat him for the title.

But then it was bad booking throughout the night imo.

Daniel Bryan should be pushed hard at the moment to make him legitimate for his WHC match at wrestlemania (although I have a feeling he's losing his briefcase to Barret, he'll gamble it on a match to prove he is worthy even after losing) instead he's 0-3 since.

Christian's Edge segment should have really led to him going over Orton to prove that he could, that he wasn't a crybaby (although the irony of the ultimate opportunist Edge calling out someone for taking advantage of the rules is pretty hilarious) instead that entire segment was just further burying Christian, he can't win clean. Despite it being the best match of the night no one gained anything from it, Christian came out looking weak, and Orton, well, at least he finally broke a table!
You'd say that match was the blow off, but surely Christian has his mandatory rematch, so we're going at least once more on that. I'd like to see Christian go full heel now just wrecking through everyone to show that he's not weak before calling in his rematch for Night of Champions where he goes clean through Orton, and give him a decent run with the belt. But then I just can't stand Orton.

The Diva match... I can see why K2 won, have to keep the feud going for longer than a week, but it was still pretty bad, but, Divas.

Henry Sheamus, in two minds over this, Henry comes out of it looking strong, so it depends where they want to go with it. Sheamus doesn't come out of it too badly, as he wasn't pinned. How well this was booked depends on how they go with the story in future.

The six man tag... the less said the better.

Re: WWE
 

Just watched Raw. Only good segment was CM Punk, the rest of it the less said the better.

A special mention though to Cena being shoved straight back into the title race. Because when you drop the belt twice to the same guy you're obviously still the number 1 contender.

Re: WWE
 

They not used the raw gm computer for sometime forgot all about it untill i seen it this morning on raw

Re: WWE
 

It will remain there until little things like you've just pointed out dies down (People noticing it's still there)

Watched Raw on monday night for the first time in a few months (Caught up with most on WWE.com)

Watched the PPV's though and Summerslam made me watch Raw the following night.

I hoped the Nash thing would be interesting but it's not.. Its bad news. I seriously hope Triple H has no real power at the current time and its all script work as I feel Triple H may have booking power along with the idiot Nash and we have seen what happens when Donkeys get power (TNA - Bischoff & Hogan)

I've never missed Vince so much even if its is scripted absence. I'd feel much better if he was on screen and not the kliq.

On to other business.. I find it beyond ridiculous that the likes of Shelton Benjamin, Chris Masters and many more are dropped from WWE over the years yet Vickie Guerrero remains.

Re: WWE
 

If they dropped women based on lack of talent there'd be no Diva's Division.

She's there as a valet, at which she does her job well (she's meant to be annoying as hell). The segment with JR's hat though, I dunno what the hell they were doing with that. It made no sense storyline wise at all, but I'd shoot creative over that rather than Vickie.

Re: WWE
 

is kevin nash back as a wwe superstar? Or was he just there to beat cmpunk up at summerslam?

Re: WWE
 

He's been there since January in a background role but I believe he will be involved with this whole new storyline for a while before vanishing again.

The original Sin Cara will be back this week too.

Re: WWE
 

The real King of Wrestling WWE owner Vincent Kennedy "Vince" McMahon will be 66 years young tomorrow (August 24th)

Re: WWE
 

The Sun: TNA sack Matt Hardy following his arrest for drink driving.

(Ex WWE Superstar) Matt Hardy has been released from his contract with TNA after being arrested for driving while intoxicated.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...k-driving.html

Re: WWE
 

More awful botches from Sin Cara in his match with Heath Slater on this week's Smackdown - so bad they had to re-do the ending.

How he still has a contract is anyone's guess.

Re: WWE
 

:LOL: Yeah, "Sin Cara" botched alright.

Problem here being that "Sin Cara" for the last 3 weeks has actually been Hunico, a luchador from FCW that they've used to replace him since he was under suspension for his welfare violation.
The real Sin Cara was sent home from the Smackdown taping because they decided to use Hunico still, and HE botched so badly they had to retape, and heavily edit it for TV. So much so the whole match lasted around 2 minutes of airtime.

Thank you for proving that you don't have a clue and don't even watch it enough to notice "Sin Cara" was over 30lbs heavier and 3 inches taller than usual. Not to mention that just watching the matches from the past 3 smackdowns it's been obvious it wasn't Sin Cara as there were no La Mysticas, no real high flying moves other than standard splashes, his in ring movement was completely different as well. It's been painfully obvious to anyone that actually watches from more than the corner of their eye that it wasn't Sin Cara.

Keep on with your Sin Cara hate though, it's one thing attributing Chavo and Primo's botches to him, another to attribute Hunico's to him when he wasn't even in the building at the time, but hey when you have an agenda :D

Re: WWE
 

:)

I'm guessing you were not aware they've taken the Sin Cara off the original guy and given it to Hunico for the foreseeable future as he's more reliable, and that the original guy has been sent home from a number of SD shows?

I don't hate him, just using my actual knowledge and experience from the business to realise he's considered a liability and most likely not going to remain a WWE employee for long.

Hmm, I wonder why hey?

Re: WWE
 

I'm not aware yet I just said that exact thing? Yes, that makes sense, no I don't know that "Sin Cara" is being played by Hunico, please ignore the entire post I just made that states he is. I didn't really make it, it just appeared here without my knowledge because obviously I didn't know, thanks for telling me!

No, the original guy was sent home from ONE show (that being this weeks)
He was suspended for 90 days before that.

You comments are completely contradictory. You're saying you knew it was Hunico, yet you said "more awful botches from Sin Cara... How he still has a contract is anyone's guess", how exactly does this tally? Your obvious implication there is that you thought it was the real Sin Cara, and wanted to add this match to the long list of previous botches (how else would it be more awful botches?) Unless you're somehow suggesting a keyfabe character should keyfabe lose a contract, but we both know you didn't mean that.

There haven't been any "more awful botches from Sin Cara" because Sin Cara hasn't fought a match since MITB.

Hunico, so more reliable that they had to reshoot the ending, and then retape the entire match. Yeah, good one.

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:42 ----------

That's a decision they're probably look to reconsider considering how badly Hunico messed up this weeks show.

But hey, it's easy being a Luchador in WWE right?

Re: WWE
 

Hunico has botched one match, the original SC botched each match. On the law of probabilities I'd say Hunico has a better chance and has probably a less-botch-prone move set.

As I've pointed out to you many times in the past, as long as a Luchador (or anyone with a particular style) is happy to adapt their individual style to that of the WWE there is no reason they can't succeed. For whatever reason the original SC cannot or will not adapt and has been responsible for more in-ring botches than any other WWE performer in recent memory.

Re: WWE
 

So once again, how is this "more awful botches from Sin Cara"?

Re: WWE
 

I watched the show through my phone, I couldn't see it was not the original guy. So I'm sure you'll be very happy if I state the mistakes were from the new guy.

But that doesn't change the fact the original one botched the majority if not all his WWE matches due to his inability or unwillingness to adapt his style and as a result from his constant botches, they're keeping him off tv for the foreseeable future.

Re: WWE
 

Some of the top superstars botch moves in every single match... Why is Sin Cara botching any different?

Rey Mysterio must have have botched about 60,000 moves over the years.

It's like you have never seen someone mess up in the ring before. Its never going to be 100% perfect but who cares.

Infact I remember a wrestler in his starting days who botched just as much as Sin Cara and his name was CM Punk.. Many of times slipping off the ropes and face planting the mat. I dont recall anyone complaining about Jeff Hardy much either even though he was a consistent botcher.. See the problem is when your looking for botches you will find EVERY WWE Superstar Botch moves on a regular basis.

Re: WWE
 

Thank you. You could have said that the first time instead! :p:

He didn't botch the majority or even all, when he was up against decent workers he put on decent matches (His match with Christian was pretty damn good). When he was up against people that can barely wrestle WWE style (Primo being a prime example) then there were definitely issues, and NOT all to do with Sin Cara (I can't see how he can take the blame for Primo slipping off a rope because he can't keep balance).

I've not seen any unwillingness to adapt, but I've seen is plenty of reports of Vince wanting him to do things most low card workers in WWE are incapable of selling. They signed him for the risk risk high flying moves, when he's gone for lesser risk ones mid match he's been called up on it.

He should never have skipped FCW (his opponents needed that as much as him) But because they threw him straight in at the deep end in a mask he can't really see out of, in a country he doesn't speak the language, and in a style he's never wrestled before, because he cost them a fortune to get out of contract. There were bound to be problems based on that.

You know the mood lighting in his matches are because the eye holes in the Sin Cara mask are so ridiculously small that you just can't see anything without the lighting setup like that?

The Sin Cara failure has been far more down to WWE rushing it through with some extremely bad decision making than any failure on his part, as this weeks smackdown has proved. That Hunico botched a match enough the entire thing was retaped when he doesn't do moves even half as difficult as Sin Cara does it shows that the problem is more than just one guy.

I wouldn't judge his ability on the fact they're keeping him off TV (in reality he's been kept off TV for 1 show) WWE has a strange habit of keeping plenty of decent workers off TV, hell they even release decent workers like Chris Masters (they ditch him after he improved 10 fold in the ring to the point where he was better than most mid carders) just because they can, whilst keeping people that can't wrestle like the great khali. Most of it is political really. Sin Cara damaged his chances of getting back in the mask more by talking to the press about his suspension than by any number of botches, if the WWE kept people off TV for botches Alex Riley would never be seen again.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------

Exactly.

Most of Sin Cara's aren't even his botches either, they're the other guys. I've linked to them before, but most of the time it's the other guy not selling the move properly.

It's like people blaming Swagger for Alex Riley sandbagging his gutwrench powerbomb the other week on raw. Just because the move messes up it doesn't mean it's the attacker who botched, a lot of the moves are more dependent on the defender than the attacker to be able to be pulled off right.

Re: WWE
 

He did botch the majority, and many on house shows - people don't get taken off a brand to avoid live TV for nothing. As I've explained in the past there are things workers discuss before a match. Primo isn't the best worker but isn't the worst. In fairness Christian could get a good match out of Kelly Kelly.

There is plenty of evidence of unwillingness. His constant botches for instance. If a workers is brought in because of their different skill-set they are still required to adapt to WWE's way. Take William Regal. His technical stuff is very 'European' but still wrestles the American way.

They would not put him in situations he could not handle - why on earth would they do that for someone they intend to be part of WWE's next generation?

I'm not sure that's true. If they asked him to wear something you seem to be suggesting is dangerous they'd be opening themselves up to legal action if he took a career-threatening bump.

There isn't anything wrong with the way WWE have handled the character. Basically they're introducing him as Rey with the volume turned up. Hunico botched one match, there aren't any wrestlers who can say that's never happened to. If he keeps botching then that might be different.

Not only are they keeping him off tv but the rumours are he will soon be released. Masters was a travesty but he'll be back.

(Sigh)

Before a match, the workers and the agent (and sometimes the ref) will get together so they do over everything. Cara should at that point make his move-set clear. A number of guys not selling properly against the same guy and you still think it's them? Rose tinted glasses...?

If Riley had a history of botches in such a short space of time then yes, you may have a point.

Re: WWE
 

Primo slipped off the rope. No amount of talking things through would have improved the ability of Primo to stand on the top rope.

Money money money. This is WWE, they do everything for the money. The entire reason Hunico is in the Sin Cara mask is so they can carry on selling them at $70 a pop.
They wanted a quick return on the huge investment they made on him.

MITB ladder matches show the sort of level of danger WWE thinks is allowable. Many a wrestler (most recently CM Punk) have come out and said they'd be happy if they never had to wrestle another one because of how dangerous they are. So yes, I think WWE would do something that wasn't entirely safe.


So you think introducing a guy straight into the main event roster that hardly anyone on the roster has experience in dealing with is the right thing to do?
He isn't just another Rey, his moves are a whole level above what Rey does. His moves are several levels about what Hunico does.

There should have been a period of training for the benefit of both him and his opponents.

There's rumours of plenty of stuff. It doesn't all turn out right.
Sin Cara has been rumoured to be released near enough since he started. I'll believe it when it happens. As of right now everything just seems like WWE taking a guy that came in with a huge attitude from being the best where he was and going "here you're nothing, we can replace you at any time" to get his personality back in check.



I know exactly how it works.
How do you know that that didn't happen, that the moves weren't worked over, and then in the ring the other guy didn't still mess them up?

Lets look at it logically, you've got one guy who's worked the same style his entire career used to the moves, and another guy, who's been talked through them before the match with no real experience of them. When the move fails who's more likely to be the one making the mistake?

If you're going to blame Sin Cara for not doing enough to train the guys up then you surely you should be agreeing that he shouldn't have been instantly thrown into the roster. It's amazing that the people who the botches have been against are people that struggle with WWE style wrestling as well. It's not like he's gone against a decent worker and botched as well.

I don't even like Sin Cara's style, I've never been a fan of luchador's like that, their offense just looks extremely low impact to me, there's no real momentum or force behind it, so my glasses are definitely not rose tinted, I just don't like to see people taking unnecessary stick based on things other people have messed up on.

Sin Cara has proven over his career that he can do these moves without botching, WWE signed him to do these moves. That the moves are getting botched are down to the other person not having any experience in doing them, and that isn't something Sin Cara can solve by discussing spots before a match.

He does. Watch his matches. His entire push is based on the pop from him turning on Miz. He was stuck in FCW for years because he never improved. He still hasn't improved. The guy is a danger in the ring. He's green as hell. If it wasn't for the huge pop he got on his face turn he'd be no where near TV.
He's just another example of WWE doing dangerous stuff if it's good for ratings.

Re: WWE
 

That's just one situation out of many Cara-inspired botches.


And they would not keep him doing something he could not do - which is why they're keeping the character but probably not the man.

I think you're showing your naivety in comparing a once/twice-a-year match to something that happens 3 or 4 times a week.

Which is why I called him Rey with the volume turned up. Much of what Rey did 10 years ago is similar to what Cara does now. As long as the matches are properly planned then there is little or no scope for these constant botches.

Nothing wrong with that. When Christian came back from TNA he went from being one of their top guys to a WWE jobber. Vince may have been making a statement towards Dixie Carter with that but it shows he has no problem in showing people that no one guy is bigger than WWE.

Unless you're actively involved in the business, I very much doubt you'd know exactly how it works.

This reminds me of a female friend I have who keeps blaming men for her getting dumped by each man she goes out with. It's always their fault apparently, not hers.

The use of agents in each match cannot be overstated - I believe the original Cara had Pat Patterson - and when a legend such as PP can't get SC to iron out his botches, there's something very wrong.

Let's use different logic. One man comes in with a particular style which he will have been told (and would have agreed to) has to be modified to fit in with everyone else. In a set period (let's say 6 months) he has shown no adaptations to his style and the mistakes continue whether against low card workers or more talented guys. It gets to the point they like his image but have to replace the man. Who is more likely to be at fault?

It isn't Cara's responsibily to "train the guys up". My issue is with him constantly making mistakes which threaten to expose the business and not showing any signs of improvement. The WWE HQ has an open door policy, if Cara needed more training or help he could seek it. Either he hasn't or has sought it but it has been ineffective for whatever reason. I've worked with 4 former WWE wrestlers and 3 FCW trainees and they've all made it clear help is always available. If Cara was thrown in the deep end too soon that's one thing but at the very least I'd expect improvement by now.

I'm not saying he isn't a technically decent performer. But his botches are far too common.

Upon getting signed by WWE the first thing a wrestler is told "everything you have learned is wrong". Vince (rightly or wrongly) wants his guys working a certain way. He won't expect a complete overhaul, just a change to the WWE way. He expects certain workers to retain their form (again using him as an example, whilst using the WWE style you can tell William Regal is a European-based worker) but technically it should the McMahon way.

For example, watch WWE guy executing a suplex. He'll always grab the sleeper by the shorts/trunks on his hips. That makes little sense as it makes it harder to control the sleeper's body. The European (and in fact in the much of the rest of the world) way is to hold them on the thigh or knee, it makes it much easier to control the move. But no, Vince won't have that.

His push is indeed based on his turning on Miz (something which has been used over and over for years) and yes he's green but as for the rest of what you're saying, we must be watching different Alex Reillys.

You're not a UKFF user by any chance?

Re: WWE
 

And I've posted many more in this thread that weren't his fault as well.
The Chavo match that was absolutely dreadful for a start, was Chavo messing up multiple times.

You can't tell me that when the other guy messes up the catch it's Sin Cara's fault.

They're keeping the character regardless as it's a money spinner. I still think we'll see Sin Cara v1 back, because Hunico just doesn't have the same level of talent or ring presence. If they do stick with Hunico it'll only take a couple more matches of just splashes before the crowd tires of it, it's really not like watching the same character at all.

Not really, I'm just showing that WWE aren't exactly famed for their no risk policies. There's plenty that goes on that is equally as dangerous. Sin Cara not being able to see clearly isn't anywhere near as dangerous as a MITB match as none of his moves are genuine injury risks if they fail, it just makes them harder to land. It'll only ever lead to botches not injuries as none of his stuff is ever really forceful.

I wouldn't say Rey has ever been that similar to Sin Cara's style, but let us not forget Rey hasn't ever been botch free either.
I agree that proper planning would avoid the botches, but that planning isn't just on the part of Sin Cara. When a lot of them come from people mistiming catches or just plain doing them wrong, you can't put the whole blame on the guy who does his part right.

Never said there was anything wrong with it. In fact I support it as sometimes people do need reigning in else they just start thinking they're bigger than they are. I'm just saying it's an alternative explanation for the way he's been treated recently rather than "the guys being released". They put a lot of money into him, and it can't really be recovered by shoving Hunico in the mask.

Not involved in the business, but have friends who wrestle the UK circuit, I've seen how they all plan for matches, how they discuss spots so know what goes into your average wrestling match. It's not on the scale of WWE obviously, but from the grass roots all the way to the top the process doesn't change that much.
Especially as in the WWE there generally isn't that much time to prep for matches in the mid and low cards, they get decided fairly late, and it's not unusual for a decision on who's going to win still being up in the air when they enter the ring and it being decided which way to go mid match.

There's plenty of ex-wrestler stories as well that go into how little prep work they get in the WWE due to how last minute a lot of the booking is.

But he wasn't told that. He was bought in to wrestle his high flying style. He was sold to the fans as a high flyer, his entrance is even him jumping into the ring to reinforce the fact the guy is a pure high flyer.
Then he's put up against guys who've never wrestled against a high flyer, and THEY mess up the catches on him.

Please point me to videos of HIS botches. I've linked to videos in this thread of botches that are attributed to him that weren't his fault, so I feel that you should be able to link to these many many botches that are his fault.
The fact is HE isn't constantly making mistakes, there have been a couple of times he has (I can remember one off the top of my head which result in someone calling an audible "repeat the spot"), but no more than anyone else. There's just this huge focus on him being a botch machine because he was a high profile signing, and his first match had a botched entrance and a pretty obvious botch (neither of which were his fault) so people instantly decided he was a botch machine.

The match with Chavo did little to change that, because it was dire, but again, not just because of Sin Cara.

Yeah but none of his botches have really been about doing moves usually done in WWE in a different way.
They've all really been down to either bad catches or bad positioning.

I'd completely understand if Sin Cara was somehow trying to swim against the tide, but I've not really seen any evidence of that.

He can't stand on the ring apron which actually messed up a major storyline of the match.
He can't even throw a guy through the ropes

I'd point out more, but I'd just be linking to pretty much the entire of his last 3 matches.

Saddens me that guys like Alex Riley get pushed whilst Zack Ryder is stuck on superstars.

Nah I occassionally read UKFF, but never posted there. I'd get into too many debates like this one :p:

Re: WWE
 

We're not going to agree on this :)

Re: WWE
 

Be a pretty boring thread if we did though! :D

On the latest wrestling observer Dave Meltzer says pretty much what I expected, most of the issues with Sin Cara are him acting like a superstar when he hasn't done anything in WWE. Apparently when he started he didn't go round shaking everyones hand like a good little worker either, which is a faux pas in the WWE world.

Re: WWE
 

Sky Sports to broadcast WWE Smackdown LIVE this week.

For one week only Sky Sports 3 will broadcast WWE Smackdown LIVE on Tuesday night at 1am.

NOTE to WWE Fans:
-WWE Smackdown is set to end at 3am UK Time but if I was you I tape the next show on Sky Sports 3 as WWE Raw LIVE always runs about 5-10mins over every Monday night.

Re: WWE
 

Another botch filled display by Hunico on Raw.

Maybe there's something in it not just being down to the guy in the suit after all.

Re: WWE
 

And word is whilst they're keeping Hunico, the massively-botch prone original SC has been released. Best move they could have made really.

Re: WWE
 

If he has been released (and apparently he's been released more time than John Cena's been fired) it's got nothing to do with botches.

It's all about his attitude in the WWE. The guy has been a walking advertisement in how not to conduct yourself in the locker room and ****ed off a lot of people in the process.

Incidentally though, Sin Cara v Del Rio has been canned because Del Rio is stuck in Mexico trying to sort out a new visa as his has expired.

Nice one WWE, putting the title on someone who's visa was nearly expired, GREAT idea.

Almost as good an idea as building up a Nash v CM Punk match, only then to have to do a last minute swerve when they realise Nash isn't fit to wrestle and he fails a wellness test!

Re: WWE
 

Actually I've only just seen this week's Raw, there was only one 'moment' that I could see and that was the headscissors - which I wouldn't call a botch, it was more sloppy than anything else. Not as bad as Mistico's level of botch anyway.

In any case it seems like they're turning him heel now, his seemingly botch-free match with Daniel Bryan was pretty good if too short.

Re: WWE
 

There were a couple more less obvious ones, mostly positioning problems. How can you not call that headscissors a botch? It was so much of a botch it's cut from the WWE videos of the match. If it was a normal smackdown it'd have been reshot.

The Daniel Bryan match didn't have any obvious botches, but it was pretty lack luster as well. None of the high tempo stuff Sin Cara v1 was bought in for.

The heel turn also seems to be setting it up for Sin Cara v Sin Cara, despite the rumours he still hasn't been released.

I just don't get WWE booking though, Sin Cara v Bryan is a match that just shouldn't of happened. Neither can afford to take a loss, Bryan is buried so deep in the roster now I can't remember the last time he won a match, yet he's meant to be a future heavyweight champion? and Sin Cara is losing what little pop he had due to his matches not being anywhere near as high paced as they were with Sin Cara v1.

They should be building Bryan up yet they keep feeding him to people.
Same problem with Barret, what's the point of throwing him into a squash match with Cena? It wasn't even anywhere close to being evenly fought, just a straight forward squash.

Then there's the sheamus booking, ok he wins again Khali via DQ, I don't think Khali should be anywhere near the ring to start with but that doesn't matter here... and then destroys not just Khali who's meant to be a giant, but Jinder as well?

The whole of super smackdown was one huge let down IMO. The main event had an obvious conclusion, they couldn't extend the feud any longer after already lining up Mark Henry for night of champions, AND advertising Orton as the champ on the posters. The entire booking of the Orton Christian feud had been dreadful. So one sided in the results, and now they've firmly buried Christian in the mid card despite him being one of the best workers in the company, far far better than Orton.

Getting bored of CM Punk now as well, what heat he had has disappeared as we've got to see the same promo constantly since his return with no movement on anything, other than him being squeezed out the title race to instead fight retired superstars. WWE need to learn how to show not tell because repeating the same things over and over again isn't convincing anyone that stuff is changing.

Re: WWE
 

Glad to see that Nash was released. This guy walks in and out of companies whenever he feels like it. Give him a few months and he will be back on TNA shows once again.

The Triple H COO angle shouldn't end this fast so I expect Punk to get screwed at NoC

Don't see Del Rio dropping the title so early either.

The Mark henry angle is where he should be instead of getting beat week in week out by mid-carders when he is constantly billed as the ''world's strongest man'' Although there is some crappy continuity. One of the commentary team (Probably J.R) ''How can orton hit the RKO on a 400lbs guy''... Well the same way he did a few weeks ago? Also the time he RKO'd the 500lb Big Show.

Re: WWE
 

It's a work...

Re: WWE
 

Profile removed from website and press release saying they have released him, do they normally go to so much effort.

Re: WWE
 

That's what they normally do when people get 'future endeavoured' but WWE never acknowledges their achievements in the press release.

When Nash was 'fired' it reported him as "Former WWE Champion Kevin Nash".

Sounds like they're still trying to keep him 'strong', something they never do for released talent.

My bet is he'll appear again at NoC to help HHH screw Punk.

Re: WWE
 

So the SmackDown spoilers are in, and this one should please Russ.

Re: WWE
 

I did say it was only a rumour - are you sure you're not a UKFF'er? You have all the required traits :angel:

Re: WWE
 

:D Aye I know, but I can't really address it to Meltzer or whoever started the rumour, so as I know how much you love Mystico it seemed appropriate to direct it at you ;)

I just feel it's important that every wrestling thread has a face and a heel ;)

This is why I don't post on UKFF though, easy enough to pop in here occasionally and disagree with you over Sin Cara, but a whole forum full of people to disagree with? I don't think my social life could handle that.

Re: WWE
 

Night of champions tonight.
I want cmpunk 2 beat triple h but i dont think he will cart see him loseing his coo allready. I think kevin nash will turn up tonight. I hope mark beats randy tonight since he changed he has been so much better and i hope to night is the night he becomes world heavy weight champion.

Re: WWE
 

Couldn't see myself paying £15 for it but as its free, somewhat excited.

Re: WWE
 

Match is about to start.. I think I've missed the obvious.. Nash will take out HHH if he's involved at all..

John whatever his name is wants to be COO.. its so obvious now -_-

NO DQ.. John and Nash.. Punk wins.. its all right there in front of us but many of us were thinking it was Punk he was going to take out.

Re: WWE
 

And Nash returns, seems he wasn't fired after all.

Who'da thunk it :scratch:

Re: WWE
 

Worst pay per view ever. So glad we got it for free.

When the highlight of the PPV is Mark Henry winning a title in 2011 then you have problems.

The tag team match, was pretty by the numbers, big of a crappy ending for a PPV, but it furthers some storylines and avoids flipping the title too soon.

The IC, no heat at all on this match, this is what happens when you do stop start pushes. Ted hasn't recovered from the stalled push where he should have gone over Orton, but instead they turned Orton face.

The US title, right guy won it, A-Ry proved again he can't wrestle at this level. No real complaints it was a pretty by the numbers 4 way, nothing special, nothing shocking.

The Divas match... K^2 goes over Beth 2 ppvs in a row, showing that complaints against the way the WWE books things don't matter, they don't want to fix the Diva's division, best to just keep K^2 on top by roll up victories.

The WHC, right guy won, hope he gets booked as unstoppable for a while and doesn't get a christian run with the title. Mark Henry is about the only guy getting booked right.

The WWE title, *sigh*
Lets get Del rio to cash in during an angle that has nothing to do with him, then spend the entire time after with Cena making him look weak, and then throw the title straight back onto Cena at the first opportunity to confirm the fact Del Rio wasn't a real champ, and that he's weak.

The main event...
Russo booking mode in full effect.

So we start off with a pretty normal by the numbers no DQ match, an AWESOME elbow drop spot through the announce table, and then... well, someone hit the Russo switch.
R truth and Miz, ok, I can understand, they want HHH to lose right, because he's a conspirator, get him out of the COO position, makes sense. So they beat him up... and also CM Punk because... well... maybe he wouldn't have wanted to win that way? might as well lay him out and ensure the pin.
So, they do the "lay them out, give cm punk the cover" trick, and... 2 count! Damn, plan failed, lets blame the ref.
Then we have Johnny Ace, who obviously wants HHH to lose because he wants the job, so he distracts the new Referee when HHH has the pin, and gets the Ref in the ring when CM Punk has the pin, only for R Truth, THE GUY WHO JUST SET UP A CM PUNK PIN ON HHH to break the pin.
As The Miz would say, Really? Really? REALLY?

In the space of 30 seconds, R Truth has gone from setting up a CM Punk win, to breaking a pin that would have gave CM Punk the win.

Then we have Nash, and well, obviously he wants to beat up HHH, understandable. But CM Punk decides "no, you're not going to do that" and stops him... instead of waiting for him to lay out HHH, and then lay into Nash, he makes the schoolboy error of leaving HHH in the fight.

Then we get the burial, HHH wins, why? What does that achieve? HHH didn't need the win, CM Punk looks weak as hell from the loss, and any heat CM Punk had when he first made his promo is already dwindling due to all this ******** they've thrown into the angle.

By the way guys, faces beat up ring announcers and steal cars. BUT DON'T BE A BULLY BE A STAR!

Re: WWE
 

Massive respect to Matt Hardy for admitting he has a problem and wants to go to rehab. OK just about everyone knew he had a problem but the first step on the road to recovery is admitting it and he's done that and I hope he succeeds. Would be great if his brother joined him.

Re: WWE
 

I realised Nash was coming when John was on the phone... then it hit me that it was really obvious that John wanted the COO position and it seemed funny Triple H had just placed it on the line. Obviously things didnt go to plan but I bet this angle is far from over.

I see this as the start of a power battle that abruptly ends when Vince returns!

Re: WWE
 

I realised he'd be coming the moment WWE referred to him as "former WWE champion" on his 'future endeavours' tribute - they never credit any released star's achievements. It was obvious he'd play a part in that match.

I agree they're probably going to go down the route of Laurinaitis wanting the COO job but Vince returning to seize control...how many time have they done that now?

Re: WWE
 

Indeed many times but Vince's character is awesome and he is the guy that made this business what it is. You don't realise how much you miss him being there until he is gone for a good period of time. I expect him to make part time appearances when he eventually does step down.

Although that storyline received much criticism for the superstars appearing for WCW/ECW being smaller than the big names of WCW/ECW most of which were signed a few years down the line. Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Goldberg and Sabu.

Re: WWE
 

Thing is, Vince wanted to scale back the 'Mr McMahon' character after his WM match with Bret and it had come 'full circle' and in fairness it has been used very sporadically since then.

I agree that he is definitely 'Mr Wrestling' buit him taking control back of WWE is a bit worn. They did it with the 'McMahon-Helmsley era' and also with the Alliance angle when it was Steph versus Shane. It's not as if WWE doesn't rehash ideas but it would be good if they went somewhere else with it.

Re: WWE
 

I assume you mean Steph & Shane vs Vince :p:

The WWE vs The Alliance was one of the best storylines ever. Think its called the Invasion storyline.

Shame they missed out the liked of Nash & Goldberg in there to match the far superior WWE superstars

Re: WWE
 

No, I meant Steph versus Shane :)

Towards the end of the Invasion angle and it looked like the Alliance was going to win, they began in-fighting and I remember the episode of Raw where the returning Vince growled at them "What the hell have you done to my company??"

It was magical :)

Re: WWE
 

I'm remaining quiet on the main storyline for the benefit of everyone!

Crowd last night was extremely poor, completely flat for most of it. I dunno if that was just because it was on the back of a disappointing PPV, or if Cleavland is always like that.

JoMo continues his free fall down the roster with a hilarious squash match. Let this be a lesson to peopel not to bring your gf backstage when she's been released.

Sin Cara vs Sin Cara, no heat at all, not surprising really, hard to build a feud with 2 masked guys who look the same when one of them doesn't talk and the other has spoke once. It was annoying to watch, they need to switch up their ring gear.

K^2 wins on another roll up, I swear they're doing this just to annoy me.

The highlight of the night though, Zack Ryder won again on raw! I'm sure I said on here before I wasn't keep on Zack Ryder, but damn the guy has grew on me. I made myself watch his youtube show, and I'm a fully paid up broski now. He's a real example of how to get ahead in WWE. His visual gags about trying to get over, and drawing money, they were great, and then WWE try to do similar with Johnny Curtis and just fall flat.

Ryder is probably the highlight on Raw for me at the moment, he's a guy that just loves to be there, he's worked hard to get his push, and now it looks like it's finally being paid off. I hope he actually gets a midcard title run, him as the US champion would be amazing.

Hugh Jackman showed exactly how to be a guest host on WWE as well, he looked like he was having a great time and actually got into it, other than the countless other guests who just seem to be phoning it in.

Oh, they need to give Ziggler more mic time as well, the guy is awesome on the mic.

As far as I'm concerned Raw ended with Ryders arm held up in the air.

Re: WWE
 

JoMo's match made sense though - he's not full time main-event status yet and it served to emphasis ADR's frustration although I agree they're wasting his potential. Yep, I think Milena's open legs....erm I mean open-door policy didn't help.

Re: WWE
 

I remmber the wwe vs the alliance. That has to be the best story line. I remmber when shane turned up at wcw and annoced hes the new owner. The look on vince face lol.

Re: WWE
 

It made sense that ADR should beat him yeah, just the fact it was a 30 second squash is comedy.
It could have been any one of a ton of guys they put in that match, that it was JoMo just shows how badly he's annoyed people. He was on the verge of main eventing, and now he's being buried in squashes.

Re: WWE
 

In fairness they did the same to HHH after the Curtain Call incident and it didn't do him any long-term harm.

JoMo is similar to Santino in that respect, who went through a phase of nothing but jobbing but was still over with the fans.

Re: WWE
 

how come they keep calling raw supershow each week?

Re: WWE
 

Maybe due to Raw need Superstars from Smackdown to full up Raw due to injury or Holiday time.

The following Raw stars are off work right now:
Big Show
Kevin Nash (Off due to storyline)
The Miz (Off due to storyline)
Rey Mysterio - injured knee
R-Truth (Off due to storyline)
Santino Marella - separated shoulder due to car accident
Skip Sheffield - injured ankle
Kharma - due to real life pregnancy.
Maryse - abdominal hernia injury

Re: WWE
 

Just hope they all get better by november. As im going 2 the tv shows

Re: WWE
 

Face turn for Mason Ryan :D

Re: WWE
 

He been an ''Face'' on Superstars for the last month or two.

Re: WWE
 

I don't watch those cheap and nasty shows :D

His appearance on Raw made it official.

Re: WWE
 

Indeed there was nothing worse than WWE Heat... You would think after ECW flopped they would just keep 2 simple shows.

Re: WWE
 

I hate that WWE NXT show - I do not even care to watch it.

Re: WWE
 

Superstars has actually have some damn good matches on recently.

Re: WWE
 

I'm sure they'll make sure it doesn't happen again :D

Re: WWE
 

HELL IN A CELL tonight. car't wait for the raw Hell In a cell. hope cena loses come on cm punk

Re: WWE
 

Cena will have another lengthy run at the title, I'd say he'll still be champ until the Royal Rumble.

Re: WWE
 

I care somewhere around zero for the WWE title at the moment. It's Cena's belt, anyone else that holds it is just temporary before it's put back on Cena as soon as they can. I'd rather him not lose it because I don't want to see him as a 20 time champion. But then instead you get to see him as the longest time with the title. Either way it sucks so it's best to just ignore the belt.

More interested in if they're going to continue pushing Henry, hoping he defends and continues to be booked as a monster heel all the way through to TLC, where he can drop the belt to Christian where they can give Christian a real run with it.

The longer they keep belts off Orton and Cena the better, but sadly I don't think WWE has it in them to do that.

I dunno how anyone can be excited for hell in a cell, a 2 week build, and hell in a cell matches that might as well be called "polite altercation in a cell". They're nothing like hiac matches used to be (in many cases for good reason). The way they've turned what used to be the ultimate in feud enders, the sort of thing where when they said they were having a hiac match you knew things were serious, to just normal matches that just happen to have a restricted view. There's nothing left that makes them hellish, and it being an annual event just completely cheapens the shock factor of them.

Re: WWE
 

Triple H will be removed as COO (tomorrow I think due to the ending of HIAC) and the position will be given to 'Heel' John Lauranitis.. has been coming for a while and will lead up to Mcmahon regaining control.

Re: WWE
 

Christian vs Sheamus, good match to start off the night. Disappointed Sheamus won, but I can see why. Christian could really do with some wins now though.

Sin Cara vs Sin Cara, a slightly awkward match that was too much in the middle of Lucha and American style. They really should have just let them go out and have a Lucha match rather than what they did. The crowd destroyed what good parts there were, the "boring" chants were dumb when followed 2 seconds later by massive pops for some of the spots. Couple of slight botches (from both sides) but nothing major.

Disappointed that they didn't have someone on commentary actually explaining the feud, which actually has a pretty awesome story to it. Hunico wrestled as Mistico when he first started, then Mistico came along, working for the bigger promotion, and "stole" the name, forcing Hunico to rename to Incognito. The whole two Sin Caras thing has been Hunico saying "you stole my name, and now I'm stealing yours" (this is essentially what Hunico said in spanish on Smackdown). It would have been a pretty awesome storyline if it was actually built properly, with commentators who actually knew how to put a feud over. Instead we just got a gallery of idiots going "herp derp which ones which, I think that ones the real one" with no backstory given at all.

Air Boom vs Swaggler was a pretty decent tag match. Not really much to say here.

Henry vs Orton, was great until after the bell. I don't see why the need to have Orton end the match looking strong when he's just been destroyed. Having Henry kick out of an RKO was pretty great. Shame it ended with him running away from Orton, way to make your monster heel look weak.

Rhodes vs JoMo, awesome promo before, loving the return of the classic IC belt. Glad that WWE are making their midcard titles mean something again. With the tag team belts, the US title and the IC title all having important places as stepping stones to the two big ones we might see midcard feuds that actually work to develop and push people.
The match itself was pretty decent. Rhodes holding onto the ring post trying for a countout was great, even if it made him look a bit weak after saying he'd defend it against anyone at any time, it was still pretty good. Only one way it was going to end though, with JoMo continuing his losing streak.

Beth vs K2, right result, wrong way to get there. After losing how many times to k2 desite dominating her, Beth finally wins due to outside interference. Way to make the Divas of Doom look strong there. K2 is the Cena of the Divas for some reason, I'd ask who she slept with to make that so, but we already know that.

The main event. Probably the best HIAC match in the PG era. Locking Cena out was awesome. My love for Ricardo continues, he's an awesome character. Fanning Del rio when he was down to try to bring him round was just great. The result was pretty odd, after giving Del rio the title, you then take it straight back off him, to put it straight back on him. The only thing it does is pushes CM Punk out of the title scene (he's had his rematch) and give Cena another title shot one on one with Del Rio.

The closing sequence, with Miz and R Truth, was gold. HHH has completely lost control, the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Be interesting to see how it all plays out on Raw tonight.

Re: WWE
 

lol I knew you'd say that - SC Blue was responsible for the majority.

WWE like to make you think there was little or no life before Vince. Giving the full back story would have been too close to acknowledging other wrestling companies, something Vince hates to do unless absolutely necessary.


The only redeeming feature in that was the return of the classic belt. JoMo has enough talent to be more than a serial jobber, and I don't buy Rhodes as any sort of champion. He's got some skills but is too small IMO.

Really hard to suspend my disbelief for this match. Kelly is high on looks and eye-candy factor, low....very low on ability. We're supposed to believe that Beth, a muscular woman with great ability could only beat Kelly by getting her hit by a foreign object? Botch after botch in that match from Kelly. I really wish they hadn't turned Nattie heel as a good face/heel match between her and Beth would be well worth looking forward to. As it stands we can look forward to weeks of Beth going over but only after been made to look stupid by poor quality opposition.

A friend of mine worked with Recardo when she was as FCW with him and she said he's very green but as they say there, he's got 'big paws'. He has tons of potential and will be a great worker in a few years if they use him properly.

Enjoyed the match and the ending had an excellent 'WTF?' feel to it. Agreed having Cena locked out was a stroke of genius although given his 'Superman' status it wouldn't have surprised me if they had him rip the door off or something stupid. The ending worked well although I'm surprised Cena lost seeing as he only won the title a month ago. The WWE Championship needs a nice long reign so I'm hoping ADR hold on to it for a while.

Miz and Truth's involvement was excellent too. You watch - Johnny Ace will threaten to bring charges against HHH for assault unless he resigns which will lead to Vince coming back and regaining his company.

Re: WWE
 

I knew you'd say that too! I disagree, I think there were a fair few spots that were saved by SC Blue, but they both had some poor positioning and timing on some spots. I'd say it was roughly 50/50 on who was responsible.

Indeed, but I was just surprised that they had Hunico announce in spanish the entire reason behind it, but stopped short of doing an on air English run through (though they've done it on the website)

JoMo is just screwing himself over at this point though. But credit to him for walking through everything the WWE have thrown at him.
I like Rhodes, he's a good talker, and can work a decent match. He's no main eventer, but as a midcarder he's pretty strong.


Aye, I was interested at the start of this angle, the idea that women wrestlers were going to take back the division from the barbie doll divas was awesome, but like everything else it just hasn't panned out how it should. K2 looks way stronger than she should, and Beth looks pretty foolish. Give it a few more months and we'll be back to Jerry Lawler shouting about puppies.

Aye, they're using him pretty well now, I just hope it carries on. He's got such great expressionism as well. He's often way more entertaining than the matches!

Aye I was expecting a Mark Henry style cage door ripping, but no doubt he'll now claim Del Rio isn't legitimate because he didn't beat him, he just locked him out of the match. I hope Del Rio goes clean over him in the rematch, but it'll probably be an interference or DQ victory.

I definitely think we'll be seeing a Johnny Ace power move on Raw tonight, a class action with the rest of the locker room wanting HHH removed from power. I'm loving the new carlton style Otunga as well, who'd have thought that putting wresters in roles they're familiar with would lead to them actually being good

Re: WWE
 

That's just it though, I've always considered IC champs to be upper midcarders, or at least between mids and main eventers. I'm liking the mask gimmick but I don't see him as a champ.

The only person Beth could have a good match with is her new 'best friend'. I'm sure they'll put them in a match somewhere along the line but it'll be heel vs heel so we won't get as much out of the match as we should.


Remember Clarence Mason from circa 1996? Looking after the legal interests of the Nation of Domination? They should hook him up with Miz and Truth to give the 'conspiracy' angle more depth.

Re: WWE
 

Just watched this week's Raw - I can see where they're going with Kelly but I just don't think it works.

The ending was nicely played though, good to see they're using Mason Ryan properly so far as well.

Can't see how this couldn't end with Vince returning.

Re: WWE
 

I'm hoping the storyline is played out with Triple H knowing it's John setting this all up.

They said HHH had a choice of resigning or appointing someone else.

What if he does not appoint John :D

But it's predictable and will land with John which in turn will be a heel and we'll see a more heel biased Raw with AirBoom dropping the tag time titles and making it a full house of Heel's as the current WWE champions.

Re: WWE
 

they always show john on his mobile so i reckon he texting the other person who helping to get triple h sacked. but who??

Re: WWE
 

Stephanie.

It's all too obvious for it to be Johnny Ace, so it's got to be Stephanie.

Re: WWE
 

But would they then play the "husband vs wife" angle? Everyone knows they're married and I can't seem them trying to kayfabe a divorce or a marriage-in-trouble.

I'm going on Vince being behind it in some way.

Re: WWE
 

I can't see them bringing Vince back, and it's the only other thing that makes sense.
Stephanie the blood line getting over looked for the position in favour of HHH.

This is a company that was ridiculously close to pulling the trigger on an incest storyline, I think a bit of a domestic dispute would be par for the course.

Re: WWE
 

In fairness the incest thing was before the PG rules.

No, they're definitely bringing Vince back because apparently he went bananas backstage at Raw 2 weeks ago when ADR mentioned his name. Vince didn't want any reminders about him in case it deadens the impact of his return.

I see your point about being overlooked but the whole marriage thing is just so "out there" that I doubt even WWE would insult our intelligence by suggesting would risk giving up his position in the 'family'.

Re: WWE
 

I dunno though, Stephanie has popped up a bit in the storyline, wishing CM Punk good luck before Nash screwed him for instance.

The thing is we've had so many Vince leaves and comes back storylines that everyone's expecting it anyway. No one is going to go "oh my God Vince is back? What a manoeuvre!" they're going to go *sigh* "same old same old".

Re: WWE
 

What about Shane? I know he 'got out' but for the sake of a couple of hours a week, without any other proper commitments to the company, could he make a brief return to give this storyline a real surprise factor?

Re: WWE
 

Shane would be an interesting outside bet but those odds would be astronomical - for WWE to keep that sort of thing secret would be impossible.

Re: WWE
 

Well there's more chance of it being Shane than Jake The Snake Roberts:D

Re: WWE
 

Lol @ all the predictions when it was horribly obvious who it was going to be..

Thanks WWE for being overly obvious and predictable, thats Raw switched off then per usual.

Best opening to RAW in the last 6 years on the bright side though!