Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

Nah - I'm not falling for that. I keep on saying it was a bad deal and that Boris is a bad deal.

What I'm asking you is this: Given that Boris signed a bad deal, and there was no other deal on offer, then instead we should not have signed any deal.
Can you escape that logic?

There's no logic to escape.

BoJo may be many things but he's one step ahead of you in understanding that no-deal was out of the question. That would breach the Good Friday Agreement. No ifs, buts or maybes. Fail to understand that and understand that you'll fail. ;)

So that left Boris with three choices and he went for No. 2:
1. Rejoin the EU
2. Sign up to a deal now and hope to sort out the practicalities later
3. Get an extension and use that time wisely to get all your ducks in a row eg veterinary equivalence, recruitment of customs officers.

GrimUpNorth

14-06-2021 10:42

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36082940)

I knew that was coming. France is the first enemy. Ireland is the second enemy. The rest of them (Germany apart) are under the EU heel/cosj.

So when you post about the EU being the enemy, you don't really mean it and are just exaggerating for dramatic effect. Tell me, how many of your other posts are also just playing up to the big boys in the hope of making you look (or just feel) good, or are you just one of the sheeple that can't think for themselves and find it easier to be lead by what they read in the Telegraph or on their MP's comedy blog?

If nothing else you've confirmed that you're one of those do as I say not as I do kind of people, must be something they put in the water in your neck of the woods what with Old Boys short lived boycott Europe battle cry :rolleyes:.

1andrew1

14-06-2021 11:20

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36082948)

I am starting to wonder if a Frenchman ran over your dog or something...

French milkman. ;)

Sephiroth

14-06-2021 11:30

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36082953)

Yes - but what do YOU think should have happened given:

(a) There would obviously be no re-joining the EU;

(b) The deal he signed with the EU was a shit-show.

I think he should have said no-deal. Do you agree? Please don't dodge the direct question! It was deal or no-deal at that point.

1andrew1

14-06-2021 11:44

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36082964)

Not sure why you've forgotten that no-deal was never an option. Nothing's altered on that front for the reasons stated. Playing fantasy politics is not my cup of tea so I prefer that we look at the actual scenarios and not those you may have dreamed up.

If I couldn't recommend him to re-join then I would recommend an extension so that we got a better deal and could spend the time wisely getting veterinary equivalence, hiring customs officers etc.

Sephiroth

14-06-2021 11:51

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36082954)

Oh please. The French government in particular are refusing to allow reasonability in operating the NI protocol. Meanwhile our people in NI are suffering and a sectarian war may be in the offing. Boris did a wretched deal and he has to take his share of the blame.

As to your insults, the Telegraph does not lead me, it follows my views. I don't read MP's blogs. I am a free thinker who voted Leave and am disappointed with the politicians' delivery of that.

Finally, when I use the term "enemy" everyone knows what is meant. Not "enemy" as in the Germans/Japs during WWI; but rather adversary and nasty at that.

---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36082966)

You're avoiding an answer. On Christmas eve, with no extension then possible, and that wretched deal on the table, would you have signed it or said "no-deal".

1andrew1

14-06-2021 12:07

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36082968)

You're avoiding the obvious. No deal was never an option. So if you're devising a hypothetical situation with the only genuine option being to sign a deal then you've answered your own question.

Carth

14-06-2021 12:12

Re: Britain outside the EU

No Deal was always an option . . . the trouble is, nobody had the guts to use it.

jonbxx

14-06-2021 12:14

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36082968)

[COLOR="Blue"]You're avoiding an answer. On Christmas eve, with no extension then possible, and that wretched deal on the table, would you have signed it or said "no-deal".

Back is December, you were saying that the EU blinked due to the threat of no deal from the UK;

Quote:

[In today's Sunday Times, there is a blow-by-blow account of the passage from David Frost's initial day as Chief Brexit Negotiator through to the Christmas Eve "Have we got a deal" question put by Boris to UvdL.

It's behind a paywall, but the lightbulb moment was when UvdL actually twigged on 21-December that Boris was truly prepared to settle for No Deal.

Right up to then, the EU were still trying to force us down their road.

So did the EU blink and sign up to a bad deal under threat of no deal, or did the UK? You seemed happy at the time of signing

Hugh	14-06-2021 12:16

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36082948)

I am starting to wonder if a Frenchman ran over your dog or something...

It was an Irishman in a Renault... ;)

1andrew1

14-06-2021 12:27

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36082972)

No Deal was always an option . . . the trouble is, nobody had the guts to use it.

That was because they understood it wasn't a viable option and just used the threat as a negotiating ploy, which anyone could see through.

Carth

14-06-2021 12:29

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36082977)

That was because they understood it wasn't a viable option and just used the threat as a negotiating ploy, which anyone could see through.

Your opinion, and welcome to it :p:

1andrew1

14-06-2021 12:29

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36082973)

Back is December, you were saying that the EU blinked due to the threat of no deal from the UK;

So did the EU blink and sign up to a bad deal under threat of no deal, or did the UK? You seemed happy at the time of signing

Indeed - as jolly as a sandboy, as Rees-Mogg would say. ;)

mrmistoffelees

14-06-2021 12:46

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36082972)

No Deal was always an option . . . the trouble is, nobody had the guts to use it.

So, the UK government were telling porkies and/or soft ?

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36082968)

As you continue to choose to bandy about the phrase 'enemy' Could you not consider that the phrase should be directed at the people who signed the deal from the UK side ? are they not an enemy to their country for their failure to deliver?

The no extension argument holds no water, as an extension was available however instead of seeing it as was (a viable option) we ignored it and continued to play brinkmanship.

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36082978)

Your opinion, and welcome to it :p:

I can't find any credible support evidence saying that no deal was an option? There's plenty suggesting it wasn't, including from cabinet ministers at the time of May's government.

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