Re: Hamas Israel War
 

And they’ll find that completely implausible just as most of us did in this thread.

Essentially tens of thousands will have nothing to live for but revenge since Israel have decimated the economy and infrastructure. The consequences of this are entirely predictable.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Exactly.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

You can't actually believe that so I'll assume you're just trolling as usual

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

In fairness to Pierre, he’s been fairly consistent on two points:

• Only nation states have the right to use force to achieve their objectives (and largely without restraint.)
  
• Military force acts as a deterrent.

We’ve went round and round on the first, there’s no need to revisit.

On the second he’s largely right. For 99% of people it is a deterrent. The problem is that 1% of 1.6 million people is 16,000. Their still to be born children thousands more. October 7th was perpetrated by an estimated 3,000 Hamas fighters.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Someone is lying:

‘Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

So you think they killed them on purpose ? To what end exactly ?

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

It's not a deterrent at all, the first Intifada was stone throwers and the odd riot, Israel's disproportionate use of force led directly to the second intifada with its suicide bombers and the rise of hamas, what will this wholly disproportionate response lead to peace or something worse, history tells us something worse

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------

Kinda helps with the old starve the population tactic

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Deterrence.

Less aid workers means less aid. The campaign of starvation proceeds with the cover of plausible deniability. Less aid workers means less witnesses, and saves Israel from having to deploy false claims of antisemitism (at best) or aiding terrorism (at worst).

Applying our own moral rationale to a military force, and other state apparatus, that burns hospitals to the ground, kills women and children under sniper fire, tortures prisoners and rapes Palestinian women starts with a flawed premise.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Straws and grasping springs to mind.
Killing a few aid workers isnt going to starve the population, it is, however, going to alienate their diminishing support. However defiant they may be in public, they need to keep their allies on board, not to mention their own people, who I seriously doubt think killing aid workers is a great idea. As I understand it, their PM is already under pressure.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

I don't think they killed them on purpose but I don't think they stop to check much or really care who gets in the way. It's just indiscrimiante bombing if they somewhat suspect they might be Hamas. So long as they think that then they don't bother to be careful, they don't double check, they level everything in sight and any civilians be damned.

These workers did everything right. https://archive.ph/FaTpm

They were working in a zone previously approved by the IDF for humanitarian aid. They coordinated with the IDF where they would be. They had their symbols on the truck.

But the IDF suspect there was an armed man and that man might be a terrorist. Even though they couldn't be sure and that the man never left with the trucks they decided to bomb anyway.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Three separate attacks on three different, identified vehicles who notified the IDF of their journey in advance.

One vehicle bombed might be seen generously as a mistake but three vehicles individually bombed looks intentional. Whether that's by a lone wolf or something bigger.

The aim has been achieved - the agency has stopped its operations and 240 tonnes of aid is returning to Cyprus. This is consistent with Israel preventing aid getting across the border to the extent that its greatest ally, the US, has had to build a temporary dock to bring aid into the country.

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-what...rkers-13106653

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

So essentially they did decide that the lives of multiple aid workers, in multiple strikes, was a price worth paying for an "armed man" who "might be a terrorist" who "might" be with them.

If they do that with aid workers (almost certain to include foreign nationals) you wonder what the price worth paying is in Palestinian lives in each mosque, church or hospital strike, never mind the general razing of civilian areas to the ground.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

Grim as it is, that's the story the IDF would like us to believe.

I'd like to think it's all cock-up over conspiracy but there does seem to be an anti-aid pattern here, be it blocking check points and outlawing the UN agency. This seems a continuation of that policy.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

The conspiracy mongers (and Hamas spokespeople) are out in force today.

I hear they attacked 5G cell towers as well.

or .... the simplest explanation is generally the right one.

The IDF screwed up, the idea they suddenly decided to target aid workers and piss off all their allies is right up there in la la land.

Re: Hamas Israel War
 

So, there's two theories:
1) The IDF think that seven overseas aid workers lives are worth expending to kill one terrorist, despite the international uproar.
2) The IDF think that seven overseas aid workers lives are worth expending if it means that food distribution is significantly slowed down, depsite the international uproar.

If you've had a chance to read much about the bombings of the three vehicles, you'll see that each was precision bombed.

I'm all for the cock-up theory and would love to hear what it is, but I don't think even the IDF are putting one forward. The first theory seems to be the one closest to the IDF's line, if the article Damien linked to is reliable.