Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And, in the letter BT sent to R Jones, where they comment about RIPA compliance, BT clearly say that "If an interception is required to give effect to a customer's (or website owner's) decision not to participate, we do not consider that a consent is required."

Tie that in with the diagram at http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/customer_choice.html and there is no doubt at all that everything is intercepted by the DPI system (level 7 switch) - "all HTTP traffic" goes through the cookie redirect circus.

I keep hoping that the diagram will be updated for the cookie-less version. If they are not storing the UID in a user cookie, where are they storing it? - somewhere in the green, blue or orange zones?

Also note, there is no path for data FROM the internet into the system, yet BT legal clearly say that data on that path is being intercepted by the system.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here's a copy of the diagram Madslug refers to - this will save anyone from having to visit the Webwise site.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A good find.

My understanding is that that amendment ensured that there were no copyright infringement claims against the network for the caches made during the transmission of data. If BT are claiming this as their defence, does it mean that they are replacing the cache they used for earlier delivery systems [a layer 2 or 3 switch?] with the Layer 7 switch?

A conflict of interest?

(For the non techies. The cache is a copy of data packets between host server and the user browser and is necessary for efficient delivery of web content. As not the whole content of a site can be sent within one packet, copies of the packets are made by the system so that if there is corruption / dropping of one of the packets, that packet can be resent rather than having to re-request everything from the host server. You will see the effect of the delivery of different packets in the way in which your browser will sometimes redraw the screen as content and images are downloaded.)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I suppose as the diagram is already on the internet we can infer BT's consent to copying it - maybe even modifying it, or selling altered copies to another ISP? Or using it as the starting point for a money making scheme?

And of course we have yet to see (and won't be seeing for a long time yet) any diagrams of the cookie-free "not-opting-in" system they have been touting. Nor any clear verbal indication of what it will look like.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Does that mean that if you don't have a webwise cookie - perhaps you're using a different laptop, have cleared cookies, or for any other reason - you'll be constantly spammed by invitations to join 'webwise'?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for the explanation of TOR.

Because this is way above my head do any of you who responded to my question mind if I cut and paste the relevant parts and and post them on the other message board?

I'll make sure I don't claim credit for it and won't put any usernames there either. I'll wait a couple of days to give you a chance to object, I read all the posts here so I'll spot it if anyone doesn't want me to do it.

If nothing else it keeps the thread I opened a couple of months ago on BT/Phorm appearing on the front page of the board.

I have posted a link to this thread too but I imagine it's a bit too much to expect someone to read right through 800+ pages!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Keep going boys and girls, you are winning, the message is slowly getting out there. There is now sufficient opposition that if BT ever start the trial, its going to be so high-profile across the entire news media and every web forum, that no one will want to sign up.

The man is the street will rise up and join the cause, and the few hundred here will turn into tens of thousands, but this won't happen until the battle starts, and people see the need to fight.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

We must be getting near another post giving main points and links to important posts.

It is a massive thread and does at times get diluted with distractions but it is all in the discussion..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That is what I believe will happen, yes...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi, Nebuad article -

"Has NebuAd Ruined Behavioral Targeting?"

From here -

http://www.adotas.com/2008/07/has-ne...ral-targeting/

Dave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The diagram - the only one available - illustrates the system that uses cookies for opting-in out. BT have since stated that they are working on a non-cookie based method for the full roll-out - no mention of how they'll operate the trial.

It's worth pointing out that BT and Phorm appear to have been muddying the waters ever since this thing came to light so no-one is entirely sure of how the system actually works. They even invented a whole new language using terms such as "mirrored" and "profiled" and "data digest" but refused to explain what they actually mean when we asked on the BT forum.

BT are now refusing point blank to even reply to emails, letters or phone calls regarding Webwise from many people and the few responses that we do see are shallow and often directly offensive.

The bottom line is that BT have become such a bunch of lying **** that anything they say is no longer to be trusted and everything should be taken as false until proven otherwise.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I liked this quote from the above

"In a recent survey of online consumers conducted by Burst Media, only 2 out of every 10 respondents approved of having their information tracked, even if it meant more relevant advertising."

It is so weird that these surveys constantly seem to miss the huge demographic sample of tracking enthusiasts who want more relevant advertising, that BT surveyed. ;-)

Come on BT - publish "Premium Browsing:Research Findings" and put us all out of our misery.
It's got to be valuable - it will have a rarity value something akin to the Penny Black.

---------- Post added at 21:15 ---------- Previous post was at 21:08 ----------

No one except BT can say. And they won't say. They remain significantly, embarrassingly, incompetently, disgracefully, culpably, deliberately knowingly silent on the issue.

It's what they DON'T say that gives the game away.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There should be a 'blacklist' on an IP address for some time (half hour?) so that you don't see the invitation before every page.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That blacklist was another bit of the system that Dr Clayton effectively demolished with his technical analysis. It fails to account for the effect on different computers sharing the same IP address, and for the SAME computer using different ISP's during that "half hour".

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

and don't forget that if you use certain web browsers (safari is one) then the Phorm system in it's current form won't work and they don't even try to invite you/drop a cookie on your system - the layer 7 kit just automatically routes you straight to where you wanted to go in the first place.