Cable Forum
Page 85 of 263 « First 357581828384 85 8687888995135185 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Brexit (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33707507)

Hugh 06-04-2019 13:40
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35990244)
Worse still, if the current balance of power in the EU Parliament is maintained, it will remain a hegemonist institution focused on trumping the powers of national parliaments.

You Remainers, beware.
You forgot "perfidious"...

daveeb 06-04-2019 15:45
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990236)
With all of this talk of potentially having to participate in the upcoming European Parliamentary elections - can I just say that it’s bad enough being ruled by unelected bloody Eurocrats, without having to bloody vote for them!

:) Yes it's a real double whammy !

Chris 06-04-2019 16:02
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990236)
With all of this talk of potentially having to participate in the upcoming European Parliamentary elections - can I just say that it’s bad enough being ruled by unelected bloody Eurocrats, without having to bloody vote for them!
Don’t worry, the powers of the pretend parliament are somewhat limited and as there are no pan-European parties they rarely produce a coherent policy about anything. The European Commission is where all the serious directives are born, and it is a reassuringly unelected institution that is quite impossible for any voter anywhere in Europe to dismiss from office. You may be reassured that if we do have to go to the polls on 23 May that your vote will have token value for approximately 72 hours, after which we can all forget our new MEPs exist, as per the norm.

jonbxx 06-04-2019 17:00
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35990260)
Don’t worry, the powers of the pretend parliament are somewhat limited and as there are no pan-European parties they rarely produce a coherent policy about anything. The European Commission is where all the serious directives are born, and it is a reassuringly unelected institution that is quite impossible for any voter anywhere in Europe to dismiss from office. You may be reassured that if we do have to go to the polls on 23 May that your vote will have token value for approximately 72 hours, after which we can all forget our new MEPs exist, as per the norm.
Does the Commission self approve these directives or is there another mechanism for approving the directives they propose?

Chris 06-04-2019 17:16
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35990263)
Does the Commission self approve these directives or is there another mechanism for approving the directives they propose?
Nice try - but from your question it sounds like you don’t understand how the proposal, revision and acceptance of EU law actually works.

The Commission proposes and develops legislation. The Parliament must be consulted and may propose amendments (which the Commission does not have to accept). The Parliament must consent to the final formulation and may withhold that consent (but in practice, does not), and the Council of Ministers takes the final decision on whether to enact. In the Council, we have one elected representative out of 28 and an ever-shrinking number of areas in which they can exercise a veto.

That’s the process which I’m pretty sure you didn’t previously understand ... no need to thank me.

And I stand by my claim that the pretend parliament is more or less an irrelevance in the overall process.

Hugh 06-04-2019 18:02
Re: Brexit
 
And the reason most stuff gets passed is that it’s done by consensus, discussing and agreeing things first, rather than the adversarial system we have that leads to the farrago we have with Brexit.

Sephiroth 06-04-2019 18:16
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990268)
And the reason most stuff gets passed is that it’s done by consensus, discussing and agreeing things first, rather than the adversarial system we have that leads to the farrago we have with Brexit.
Please don't make the EU Parliament out to look good. It is currently hegemonist, dare I say perfidious, stuffed full of UK hating federalists.

Nothing I've said above pays any compliment to our wretched, dare I say perfidious, Parliament.

OLD BOY 06-04-2019 18:58
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35990264)
Nice try - but from your question it sounds like you don’t understand how the proposal, revision and acceptance of EU law actually works.

The Commission proposes and develops legislation. The Parliament must be consulted and may propose amendments (which the Commission does not have to accept). The Parliament must consent to the final formulation and may withhold that consent (but in practice, does not), and the Council of Ministers takes the final decision on whether to enact. In the Council, we have one elected representative out of 28 and an ever-shrinking number of areas in which they can exercise a veto.

That’s the process which I’m pretty sure you didn’t previously understand ..no need to thank me.

And I stand by my claim that the pretend parliament is more or less an irrelevance in the overall process.
No, but I will. Not a lot of people seem to appreciate that the EU is really not democratic at all.

The only way to have any influence at all is to elect disruptive MEPs. If we end up having to participate in more EU elections, all leavers should vote UKIP. Maybe that will get the message across, and there would be no adverse implications as there would be if we elected UKIP MPs.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990268)
And the reason most stuff gets passed is that it’s done by consensus, discussing and agreeing things first, rather than the adversarial system we have that leads to the farrago we have with Brexit.
It would look a lot worse than that if you took off your rose-tinted spectacles, Hugh.

I mean - democratic? No way. No more so than in a Communist society, where elections mean nowt.

pip08456 06-04-2019 19:09
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990271)
No, but I will. Not a lot of people seem to appreciate that the EU is really not democratic at all.

The only way to have any influence at all is to elect disruptive MEPs. If we end up having to participate in more EU elections, all leavers should vote UKIP. Maybe that will get the message across, and there would be no adverse implications as there would be if we elected UKIP MPs.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------



It would look a lot worse than that if you took off your rose-tinted spectacles, Hugh.

I mean - democratic? No way. No more so than in a Communist society, where elections mean nowt.
The Brexit Party would be better than UKIP and send a clearer message. Provided there is a candidate in their constituency.

jonbxx 06-04-2019 19:35
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35990264)
Nice try - but from your question it sounds like you don’t understand how the proposal, revision and acceptance of EU law actually works.

The Commission proposes and develops legislation. The Parliament must be consulted and may propose amendments (which the Commission does not have to accept). The Parliament must consent to the final formulation and may withhold that consent (but in practice, does not), and the Council of Ministers takes the final decision on whether to enact. In the Council, we have one elected representative out of 28 and an ever-shrinking number of areas in which they can exercise a veto.

That’s the process which I’m pretty sure you didn’t previously understand ... no need to thank me.

And I stand by my claim that the pretend parliament is more or less an irrelevance in the overall process.
Ok, so the democratically elected parliament and council do get to approve directives from the commission and do get to send back directives to the commission and our Council representation has an effect. All good then!

Sephiroth 06-04-2019 20:10
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35990274)
Ok, so the democratically elected parliament and council do get to approve directives from the commission and do get to send back directives to the commission and our Council representation has an effect. All good then!
Deluded. The "democratically elected parliament" is a sham as it represents 28 countries of significant cultural, political and historic differences. The process of electing this gravy train may follow conventional democratic lines, but there is nothing democratic about the ganging up, the groupings and the sheer intent to federalise the EU when none of the public want anything like that.

As for the Council, there is nothing democratic (nor undemocratic) about it. The members are the political leaders of the 28 countries. These are appointments to the Council, not elected to the Council; of course I have no objection to the Council - it needs to be there; but it doesn't fall into the "democratic" category. In the UK we don't elect a PM.

Perversely, it was better when there was no EU parliament - just the Commission (they were turds then) and the Council or whatever it was called then.

ianch99 06-04-2019 20:54
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35990264)
Nice try - but from your question it sounds like you don’t understand how the proposal, revision and acceptance of EU law actually works.

The Commission proposes and develops legislation. The Parliament must be consulted and may propose amendments (which the Commission does not have to accept). The Parliament must consent to the final formulation and may withhold that consent (but in practice, does not), and the Council of Ministers takes the final decision on whether to enact. In the Council, we have one elected representative out of 28 and an ever-shrinking number of areas in which they can exercise a veto.

That’s the process which I’m pretty sure you didn’t previously understand ... no need to thank me.

And I stand by my claim that the pretend parliament is more or less an irrelevance in the overall process.
Yup, winner of the most patronising post of the year so far. :) Your obvious bias invalidates any attempt at objective analysis.

Pierre 06-04-2019 21:10
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35990277)
Yup, winner of the most patronising post of the year so far. :) Your obvious bias invalidates any attempt at objective analysis.
Only come across as patronising as he’s trying to educate a blissfully ignorant person.

Sephiroth 06-04-2019 21:15
Re: Brexit
 
Sarcasm sometimes works - as on this occasion it did.

jfman 06-04-2019 21:23
Re: Brexit
 
Majority of the public want a second referendum.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8857211.html


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:36.
Page 85 of 263 « First 357581828384 85 8687888995135185 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum