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-   -   PM Boris forms a government (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33707714)

jfman 19-08-2019 20:03
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36006597)
Mmm.. Brexit snake oil .. love it!

Now post some links to objective, independent research and we can debate the conclusions.
We’ve had enough of experts.

OLD BOY 19-08-2019 20:05
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36006597)
Mmm.. Brexit snake oil .. love it!

Now post some links to objective, independent research and we can debate the conclusions.
What is not objective about those points? You really aren't prepared to engage in the real debate, are you? Instead of trying to discredit the whole idea of Brexit that the electorate voted for, why not actually tell us why you have a problem with the valid points that have been made here?

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36006599)
We’ve had enough of experts.
It's the lies being told by them that we object to.

jfman 19-08-2019 20:07
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Yet you can’t bring any unbiased and quantifiable alternative!

nomadking 19-08-2019 20:11
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Certain key concepts were at the heart of the Leave vote. Those have to be reflected in any mythical deal. Eg Customs union not allowed.



The current only available options are "no deal" or remain on vastly inferior terms compared to before(eg no rebate).
Link

Quote:
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.
Link
Quote:
The UK will lose its rebate from the EU at end of 2020 if it seeks to extend the Brexit transition beyond then, the Guardian has learned.

The loss of the rebate, which to some has been a symbol of British influence in Europe since Margaret Thatcher demanded “our money back”, is expected to fuel Tory Brexiters’ demands to keep the transition period as short as possible.

OLD BOY 19-08-2019 20:24
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36006605)
Yet you can’t bring any unbiased and quantifiable alternative!
You've read the article, surely. What else do you want?

jfman 19-08-2019 20:48
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36006613)
You've read the article, surely. What else do you want?
From Brexit Central. Yes, I've read the article. It's even less impartial than your digital media companies telling us that digital media is the future.

1andrew1 19-08-2019 20:49
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36006613)
You've read the article, surely. What else do you want?
Like jfman, business would like some unbiased information and not something of dubious repute from a campaigning website.
Quote:
Operation Yellowhammer: Business leaders demand inquiry into no-deal Brexit after Whitehall dossier leak
Business leaders today demanded an independent inquiry into what a no-deal Brexit would mean for Britons, amid accusations that vital information about potential problems has been held back by the Government.

The industry group that ensures food and goods are delivered to shops and companies said it was taken by surprise by a leaked Whitehall report disclosing fears of petrol and diesel shortages that would disrupt the internal supply chain

James Hookham, of the Freight Transport Association, told the Evening Standard: “If there is a risk of a serious threat to the distribution of normal goods within the UK, that is a massive concern and something we would clearly like to understand better.”
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4216361.html

jfman 19-08-2019 21:07
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
I've actually nothing against no deal, as long as it's at a time and place of our choosing. Not a simple four months after official Government policy was to achieve a deal.

We loaded the gun and held it to our own heads triggering Article 50. We now know why - the corruption within the Leave campaign would have undergone multiple legal challenges and Parliament would never have triggered A50.

Equally leaving while maintaining a customs union for goods (but not services) would have been an adequate half way house giving us all the benefits of leaving (end to freedom of movement) without all the uncertainty, or precarious negotiating position with the USA, of no deal.

Pierre 19-08-2019 21:52
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36006595)
Some common sense at last. No Deal was not promised in 2016 and was not part of the campaign. Quite the opposite in fact.

I am glad someone actually is being honest with what actually happened. When you then add 54% of the electorate voted for parties rejecting No Deal at the last GE, it really makes it very clear.

Any other position is just duplicitous posturing by those who wish to impose an ideological Brexit at all cost. We need more honesty here. The Hard Brexiters are willing to risk the livelihoods of us all, they just do not give a damn.

What is quite telling is that there are many who whined & moaned about the money spent by Cameron on the Remain leaflet who are totally silent on the many, many millions more planned to be spent by Johnson on No Deal propaganda.
We need to just leave, the EU have made it clear they won’t change the deal. Parliament has rejected the deal 3 times.

What do you expect to happen?

It is clear any other deal that may be considered by the EU would be BINO, and our Remain Parliament EU sycophants would happily do a deal that kept us tied to them Single Market, Customs Union, ECJ and therefore not Brexit.

We need to leave, with a deal that respects what we were there led would happen and if you can’ Remember it was:

- leave the Single Market
- leave the Customs Union
- leave the ECJ

As a minimum.

If that can’t be achieved then to achieve that would be by just leaving. “No Deal” is a fallacy as there would be a deal, it would just be after we have left....that’s all.

If this subversion of democracy was being undertaken in Central America, Africa or asia we’d be denouncing them as oppressive rogue states governed by despots.

I am sick of the bullshiite, I was a remainer....but this process has turned me into the most hardened leaver.

Just do as you’re Fff’n told.

pip08456 19-08-2019 21:57
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
4 Attachment(s)
Boris writes to the EU.

jfman 19-08-2019 22:03
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Haha. "Do one, Boris" comes the reply. How does Boris propose to protect the integrity of the Single Market?

I'm not sure how the backstop can be anti-democratic. The democratically elected Government negotiated it - we don't have direct democracy in international negotiations.

Pierre 19-08-2019 22:13
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36006631)

I'm not sure how the backstop can be anti-democratic. .
As it prevents the conclusion of a democratic decision.

Also it was negotiated, in so far it was not proposed by the U.K., it was an EU device that we failed to negotiate out.

jfman 19-08-2019 22:18
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36006632)
As it prevents the conclusion of a democratic decision.

Also it was negotiated, in so far it was not proposed by the U.K., it was an EU device that we failed to negotiate out.
It doesn't prevent the outcome of a democratic decision. The UK can leave the EU while maintaining the Northern Irish backstop.

Pierre 19-08-2019 22:22
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36006633)
It doesn't prevent the outcome of a democratic decision. The UK can leave the EU while maintaining the Northern Irish backstop.
No.

I refer to the statements made numerous times by the then PM and just about every other talking head at the time.

- Leave the Single Market
- Leave the Customs Union
- Leave the jurisdictions of the ECJ.

That it what we were told Brexit was. It was, and to suggest otherwise is an outright lie.

The Backstop fails on point 2.

jfman 19-08-2019 22:23
Re: PM Boris forms a government
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36006634)
No.

I refer to the statements made numerous times by the then PM and just about every other talking head at the time.

- Leave the Single Market
- Leave the Customs Union
- Leave the jurisdictions of the ECJ.

That it what we were told Brexit was. It was, and to suggest otherwise is an outright lie.

The Backstop fails on point 2.
That's how Brexit has been redefined after the fact. You know this as well as I do, I fail to see the value in perpetuating the myth. Especially as it's broadly irrelevant - the EU won't budge because it protects the integrity of the Single Market.


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