Re: Coronavirus
 

competitors throwing the race are cheating the rest

Re: Coronavirus
 

The figures do not back up your assertion

Re: Coronavirus
 

Misleading figures as usual.
England has 80% with a 2nd dose, but that is for over 12 years old. How many of the figures for other countries are giving rates for over 12s only, but the UK is judged including 12 and under.
Link
If you have large chunks of the population that are determined to refuse, there is little anybody can do.
If only 72% of a group are prepared to get vaccinated, higher overall figures will always be unachievable.
Link

As I've had to point out before, being fully vaccinated doesn't prevent you from testing positive for covid. Same as with EVERY other vaccination and it's associated disease. There is no "invisible force field" preventing you from getting any virus. It has to get into the bloodstream in order for any accelerated immune response as a result of the vaccine to take place.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I did not say it has.

Re: Coronavirus
 

it is offered to everyone over 12 so how do you work that out

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah, NomadStats have been deployed :) I don't think I will venture down that rabbit hole

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah, I see, so will you publish the final scores on the doors when it has finished even if the UK is at the top of the list, I kinda doubt that somehow..:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Selfish?

Re: Coronavirus
 

All the countries with higher vax stats than us are free countries - it’s not compulsory in those countries either…

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Spanish figures only include those that can be vaccinated. The EU hasn't authorised vaccination for under 12s.
Only things like vaccine passports and lockdowns for unvaccinated, stand a chance of changing that. Then people would be whining about that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

did I say any different? no

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

yep

Re: Coronavirus
 

The UK is handing out 3rd booster jabs. Therefore those still unvaccinated will be by their own choice.
If a country eg Spain, is increasing the %age fully vaccinated(from 70% a matter of weeks ago), then there must be a proportion of the population that are willing to be vaccinated, but hadn't. That is a sign of "failure", although not a big one.
The true measure is of the total number of people who are ready, willing, and able to be vaccinated. That is all any government can control.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So, a matter of weeks ago, Spain were ahead of where we are now, and now Spain has increased the numbers vaccinated significantly from a few weeks ago, and that is a sign of "failure"?

That’s an interesting way of looking at things…

Re: Coronavirus
 

There was a sizeable chunk of the Spanish population that were ready, willing, and able to be vaccinated, but hadn't. Any government can't be held responsible for those that are refusing. Any measure of government success or failure should exclude those who are refusing.

The UK has enough capacity to dish out 3rd booster jabs. Spain was still tackling their 2nd.

In the UK, if only 72% of a certain group, or as low as 60% in London, are prepared to be vaccinated, then overall figures will always reflect that. If in Spain(and other countries) a higher %age are prepared to be vaccinated, then their figures will reflect that.
If 80% of people in England(12 and over) are fully vaccinated, where does the 67% figure actually come from? The 67% figure can only be a result of not applying the same comparison to other countries(eg Spain).

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm also not sure that the vaccination of kids is happening particularly quickly. Though they can now use the NHS site like anyone else, this has only recently been the case, and I think that chart is percentage of the population, not the eligible population. Also, we're only offering 12-15 yr olds a single dose, so do they then count as fully vaccinated? A lot that doesn't say.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The figures are not a count of who has been offered the jab.

The current state (taken direct from the NHS site).
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/corona...virus-vaccine/

Just so you are clear, that's every adult, and children over 11, offered the 'jab'.
So unless you advocate forced vaccination, the UK appears to have done all it can.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Get my booster next week.

Had flu jab yesterday along with a pneumonia one.

For those interested in how the covid vax works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NDc9Q_m-W0

Re: Coronavirus
 

There's plenty more that could be done to encourage vaccination without forcing it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...covid-lockdown
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele...h=5e597c763d74

Re: Coronavirus
 

Christ man, with the media throwing it at us for the last year I think everyone should have got the message by now, what should we do next . . offer people £1000 to get a jab?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I bet the antivaxxers won't even glance at this graph.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Surely they are all dead by now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

One venue in Austria* has an unconventional inducement for vaccinations.

[quote]A sex club in Austria* is advertising free sex for anyone who gets vaccinated on site.[/come]
https://www.businessinsider.in/scien...w/87636088.cms



*Corrected from original posting of the Netherlands

Re: Coronavirus
 

I like the way you're thinking. We spent more than that for every person in the UK on furlough, and £500 per person on Test & Trace. Which is the best value?

Re: Coronavirus
 

some are and maybe some of their loved ones too

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't get why the option to not die of covid isn't enough incentive?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Doctor Bob on youtube said it was all a hoax and the vaccines are just trackers

Re: Coronavirus
 

Tulips? ;)

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------


Needs therapy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Notice the Operation Rampdown stuff has been leaked to the media. I do think we ultimately need to draw a line under covid and treat it like other cold/flu type viruses, when it has reached that severity as an illness. We don't isolate people with colds, though arguably it is better they do, and T&T seems to be less useful now people don't have to isolate if double jabbed, and now you don't have to check into venues etc. So it makes sense that ultimately this style operation is mothballed, the only thing is the timing, it should be when covid is more or less over, whether that is sooner or later.


Seems that the Netherlands and Austria are now taking measures which we probably won't see here - keeping some measures on in the summer rather than actually getting some immunity built up is probably not going to help Europe where it might do so more here, but we'll see that over the next few weeks. And there probably isn't much support for lockdowns these days in most places.


Let's not forget a lot of the EU countries didn't increase the dose gap between jabs - and have kept things like masks, vaxpasses, which we don't have.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

That is a great graph, because the argument has really moved on to age, and at what is the benefit of vaccination to kids. Your graph sums it up perfectly.

Cheers.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

How is life on Mount middle class privileged Smugness?

Have you glued your face to a road recently?

Asking for a friend.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You have a friend?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Quite the retort for the man who described himself as so privileged to be unaffected by Covid restrictions while, against all science, advocating for none.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But all done without mocking others, and at least acknowledging that I personally had a less worse time than many others during lockdown, and also unlike others who wanted lockdown to continue, wishing for it to continue and desperately still hoping it will happen again ( after all it’s inevitable isn’t it?) I didn’t, and still don’t, think they were the answer. The cost benefit analysis still hasn’t been done.

Re: Coronavirus
 

1 saved life is worth all the money. The very fact the world disagrees show how very very wrong we have everything.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Plenty of time to go down the anti-vax rabbit hole too it seems.

I’m not sure anyone in July was advocating for another lockdown. You seem to be conflating lockdown with more practical measures - masks, distancing, working from home. And of course economic support for those less well off.

As for inevitability I’ve always caveated that with “without intervention”.

As demonstrated from this very post you either do not understand, or wilfully ignore, nuance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

that is a very simplistic way of looking at it.

1 life saved from coronavirius v 2 lives lost due to not getting a cancer diagnosis early enough or committing suicide? for example.

Livelihoods lost, homes lost, families broken up etc, etc etc.

We don't know the full impact the last 20months has had on everyone, but I would argue your statement is not correct.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The whole lockdown thing was to ease the strain on hospitals which in turn was meant to make other things like Cancer treatment better than it would have been if hospitals were even more swamped

I would argue all day every day that the system is wrong full stop. Too much emphasis on material wealth not enough on caring for others. The world is wrong and beyond repair

You heard the tale of the fisherman and the businessman??

Re: Coronavirus
 

And can you prove they'd benefit from letting COVID rip through society? Of course you cannot. People are dying waiting to get into A&E now because of the wait to get into hospital with many beds taken up by COVID patients.

Your pretence that we can just act like it's 2019 is a complete red herring. Dare I say simplistic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

didn't work out that way though did it?

Re: Coronavirus
 

but can you say for sure if it would have been better or worse had they not locked down ???

Re: Coronavirus
 

And your solution is… more Covid patients? :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, because if you read my first post you would have seen that I clearly stated

So no one knows either way. It just resorts to opinions and guess work. So that analysis needs to be done very quickly as making policy on opinions and guesswork is not ideal.

Obtaining the cost data shouldn't be too difficult. Not so sure on the benefit...........

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well take comfort Pierre that no country anywhere in the world considered your proposition realistic, even by accident.

On balance of probability I think it’s more likely that you are wrong. Blinded by your opposition to the state intervening in any aspect of life and seeming propensity to anti-vax rhetoric.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't know, was it much better? would it have been much worse? We'll find out if there is ever an objective inquiry undertaken.

Re: Coronavirus
 

wonder what you will say if you find out you were totally wrong

Re: Coronavirus
 

There’s a whole thread of material to draw upon right here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll take those odds.

You can't get me on the anti-vax, even though I can see you're just yearning to. So desperate for any slur you can throw my way to try and give your untenanted statements and arguments weight.

I'm fully vaccinated, and when offered the booster I'll take it and I'm having my flu jab this week.

---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

you're right, it's inevitable.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah, the nuance that you've missed (not like you!) is that you can simultaneously be vaccinated personally - why not it's perfectly rational to seek to minimise your own risk - and push anti-vax messaging upon others around risks to children or other groups you don't deem worthy of state intervention.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In regards to the question of vaccinating children, which is the nub of your post. It is not anti-vax to be hesitant and even critical of the need to vaccinate a cohort where the evidence is extremely thin as to the benefit it provides. As I understand it , the difference in impact to the health of the child due to potential side-effects of the Vaccine v's the impacts of the health of the child contracting Covid are negligible.

There is no tangible benefit. So for my two young children I'm not going to stick anything in their arm that isn't going to be of any benefit to them.

That's not anti-vax.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The scientific evidence is clear on the benefit of vaccinating children around the world. Regulators - again around the world - have deemed the vaccines both safe and effective.

To deny that is literally to follow anti-vax narratives. As I had clearly stated in my post above. Your position is not hesitant - you clearly claim without evidence that there is no tangible benefit.

Interesting that you took a booster though - was it not you a mere few months back talking about the benefits of sending vaccines to Africa instead? For someone who vociferously argued that allowing the virus to spread was a coherent strategy due to the risks being extremely low (even without vaccination) you are certainly keen to hedge the odds in your favour at every opportunity.

Apologies if it was someone else, but nobody else springs to mind.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are your children covid vaccinated ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unless you want to take them on holiday…

Re: Coronavirus
 

No. I read once on the internet they’d grow an extra head and a bloke in the Spectator said we’d already hit herd immunity (three times). So I decided they were a better judge of science than the scientists.

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 ----------

:D

As I said before he’s a principled one.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll have a bottle of that, cheers :drunk:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are you sure about that?

interesting you don't read posts properly. I said when offered, I'll take it. I haven't been offered one.

I did, I can't recall exactly (i'm sure king of the search function - Hugh will find the relevant post ) in what context I said it. I think was along the lines of instead of vaccinating under 30's, vaccinate the at risk groups globally. I still stand by that.

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

We'll probably go to Spain

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...y-requirements

Re: Coronavirus
 

I recently read a book written about you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh look!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57888429

Re: Coronavirus
 

The vaccines are safe as far as vaccines go, yes, but all vaccines produce side effects in some people.

The hesitancy around vaccinating children is that the risk of becoming ill with Covid is extremely small, and therefore one has to weigh the balance of whether to take the small risk of not vaccinating against a virus that is unlikely to affect them or vaccinate and take the small risk that they may get side effects.

The net benefit of vaccinating children is extremely small, so much so that the scientists were hesitant about recommending that children should be vaccinated. Although on balance they decided it would be, it was close, and in all probability based on keeping transmission rates down.

Re: Coronavirus
 

More tosh Old Boy. The JCVI bottled it and were overruled by the CMOs because their advice was narrow in focus, based on flawed data and simply preposterous to follow unless you wanted to keep kids in lockdown forever to maintain their “two in a million” risk of death from Covid.

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

So basically as long as you’re alright and can get vaccinated as much as you want/need the Africa point is moot?

Exactly the type of principled decision making I’ve come to expect from you Pierre please do keep them coming.

The scientific evidence on the safety of the vaccine is absolutely clear. We will have needles in the arms of kids in no time at all. Long before the “experimental vaccine” has satisfied the internet crackpots.

You can compete with the most desperate last stand on the forum with OB’s defence of Owen Paterson.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The point is moot full stop as I have no power to do anything about it. If someone said to me hey Pierre instead of giving you this vaccine booster, we'll give it to an unvaccinated 60yr old in the DRC, I'd say OK.

I wasn't given that choice at the clinic.

So vaccines for the U12's is inevitable says Dr JFman. Did you see Hughs jovial post above. That also applies to you in this context.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You could of course not book your booster - somewhere down the supply chain that ends up somewhere else.

I don’t see how backing the world leading scientists at the CDC and the European CDC is linked to Hugh’s post at all. You can follow the quacks at the JCVI all you wish, but I’ve predicted they’d be wrong before and been proven right - gaps between doses, 12-15, and I’d back the rest of the worlds scientists every time.

Also no need to address me as Dr as I have no relevant qualifications for the title. Which probably means I could get on the JCVI.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll think about. Like I said I haven't been offered one yet.

Or just back whoever and whatever fits your argument.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You’re frequently proven right when judged against your own straw men and hindsight.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m not sure how scepticism - in advance - about the JCVI and their decision making can be described as hindsight. Similarly where they overrule themselves (12 weeks between doses was reduced) or get overruled by CMOs (12-15s).

I know you’ve anchored much of your input into the thread on British exceptionalism but I think one could reasonably objectively see that the JCVI are no longer fit for purpose. Incompetent at best and providing political cover to Government narratives at worst.

It’s also interesting to note that the current cut off (in age range) for boosters aligns with the cut off when the stopped dishing out the AstraZeneca vaccine. I’m sure we will eventually get to boosters for all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It seems likely that under 40s will eventually be offered a booster, which in their case will probably be a third shot of Pfizer or Moderna instead of 2 AZ then 1 Pfizer.



If they have to wait 6 months between 2nd and 3rd doses then it seems pointless saying that anyone younger can book yet. I'm double jabbed, was as soon as I could have been virtually, and still this was July, so it'd be January before I can get a third.



As for JCVI, well let's not forget the JCVI, MHRA, CMOs and ultimately the politicians have different priorities. I think the MHRA basically approve the vaccine for use - which basically says yes it is safe to give a 12 year old the vaccine, but make no indication of how it's to be used, this is down to the JCVI to say (e.g. 1 dose, 2 doses N weeks apart) and then ultimately the CMO and CSA will advise the PM and Health secretary based on other factors for example is it worth doing for the benefits, based on the side effects etc. It might appear they're overruling and contradicting each other but they aren't, they just have different angles to consider

Re: Coronavirus
 

The advice has reduced the waiting period to five months while the most vulnerable (and proportionately more Pfizer) had to wait six.

I’m aware they all have differing functions.

The real question is why the JCVI exist at all considering they aren’t approving the vaccine for safety (the MHRA), they broadly aren’t experts in a relevant field (mostly behavioural scientists or sociologists) and their decision making is neither timely nor binding (12-15 y/o vaccination).

Re: Coronavirus
 

The problem with this is, from the point of view of someone who loathes the British state, everyone even slightly more moderate than you seems to be pushing exceptionalism.

Meanwhile, see nffc’s excellent post for a description of pragmatism and co-operation between the agencies charting a path through this novel infection for us. I would only add to it the steadily increasing body of scientific research which is always likely to result in changes in advice as time goes by. In particular, today’s recommendation of a second dose for teenagers seems to be grounded in a population wide study that provides reassurance that heart muscle swelling as a side effect in that age group is exceptionally rare.

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------

See my earlier comments about your loathing of the British state. It has demonstrably eaten you from the inside out every day since the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine was proven effective and began to be used. Your desperate willing for this particular vaccine to fail, just to your world view doesn’t have to suffer any challenges, is pretty sad.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The irony that a population wide study done here (as opposed to the evidence used in the USA, EU and elsewhere) justifying their decision - and indeed providing reassurance - is being held up as good science in a post denying British Exceptionalism.

Worthy of a comedy sketch.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Don't you think we need behavioural scientists?



I know they're indySAGE and that I'm hardly Michie and Reicher's greatest fans either in terms of their politics or their views but on a committee where you are looking to think tank your way through a crisis you absolutely do need a variety of different backgrounds and opinions - even a Sinophile Communist Party member has her place in this.



If nothing else, they need to be in the discussions regarding how people will behave once vaccinated, and how to best encourage people - one would imagine the "i'm vaccinated so f**k restrictions" attitude would've come up and how they best counteract this mentality... which is a behavioural scientist's question, and wholly related to vaccination.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Far from - at a global level as you have correctly noted for the vast majority in the pandemic it’s the only vaccine they will ever see before 2023.

However that added value doesn’t necessarily equate to it providing the maximum level of protection here - I suspect something reflected in the fact that while some countries are using it for a booster dose we are not. The order book for 2022 puts us firmly on a Pfizer footing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I will add that Laura Dodsworth mentions plenty on how the Gov and BehSci have behaved towards making the population comply in her book on the covid crisis. I'd recommend a read with an open mind...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not leading the decision making for who gets vaccinated when if their only role is to stall the process between the MHRA approving a safe and effective vaccine and being overruled by CMOs. Either the evidence base was incomplete or the analysis inadequate. Which is irrelevant.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But there are views which their speciality is best considered.


Like, specifically in the argument about vaxxing teens and younger, where you may have to overcome views from parents such as "well my kid is healthy and isn't likely to get ill from covid/has already had it and I don't want to risk him getting a heart condition from a vaccine which isn't going to help him" and how you would manage to overcome that objection?


We know the vaccine is safe as it's been shoved into plenty of adults around the world. We know a child's body isn't massively different from an adult's, especially a teen's. But a child is at much less risk of being hospitalised or dying from covid which is what the vaccine primarily prevents.


It's not a question either which has a binary answer. Just because the vaccine is safe and effective to give to kids doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Should we vaccinate dogs to stop them spreading it to humans too?

Re: Coronavirus
 

mRNA vaccines have proven just how astonishingly good they are, both in terms of speed of development and efficacy. Advanced economies with the money to buy them and the infrastructure to store and distribute them can and should use them. However, viral vector vaccines are much, much cheaper to produce and distribute and the real-world efficacy of Oxford/AZ is so good it is going to have a role in the world programme for a very long time to come.

I’m glad to see you acknowledge this because there have been times over the last year when you have seemed distinctly peeved at its success and have questioned its use within the UK at all, despite the very obvious and immediate need.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m not sure the mass vaccination of millions of children should be pinned on the worries of a handful of parents.

It may not have a binary answer but the global consensus is to do so, and we have partially and will eventually fully fall into line.

I’d ask their owners, just as I’d give the choice to parents.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is that because it's British and exceptional;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don’t think it was unreasonable to note that it had lower efficacy (and consequential impact on infections, hospitalisations or deaths) and a risk of not reaching the much sought after herd immunity threshold.

These concerns very much have proven to be realised. Indeed, the fact none of the vaccinations will get to the herd immunity threshold unless you can simultaneously vaccinate everyone at once with an mRNA vaccine has paradoxically created greater ongoing demand for all vaccines for years to come - including the lower efficacy ones. Which while good for big pharma (I note AstraZeneca are moving to a profit making model) isn’t necessarily the out everyone was hoping for in late 2020.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If an unvaccinated child attends school, when compared to a vaccinated child in the same school are they more at risk, less at risk, or at equal risk of catching covid?

If an unvaccinated child catches Covid, when compared to a vaccinated child are they more likely, less likely, or of equal likelihood to infect someone else?

According to the latest analysis/statistics/guesswork, is an unvaccinated child more at risk, less at risk, or at equal risk of developing serious Covid complications than a vaccinated child?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Your rhetoric over the last few pages would suggest you preference of mandated vaccination for children.

So at least you do accept it is a decision for parents and parents alone.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Try researching it, and let us know your findings…

Re: Coronavirus
 

I thought asking the experts here would be quicker to be honest Hugh, although it looks like they're stumped at the moment :shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was under the impression fully vaccinated people ie everyone are less likely to catch the virus, spread the virus and get seriously ill from the virus

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...e-unvaccinated

https://www.newscientist.com/article...re-vaccinated/

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...n/art-20484405

Most important point imo is to slow the spreading. The more unvaccinated there are the more chance of a vaccine resistant strain imo guess that bit falls as a guess though

Re: Coronavirus
 

aah, that sort of doesn't mesh with stuff on here and elsewhere about double vaccinated people taking up hospital beds due to having Covid . . I've no idea if that's a very small percentage of those who are double jabbed, but we do seem to get quite upset at very low percentage issues don't we . .

Re: Coronavirus
 

the hospitals I have seen talk about it say most in hospital are not fully vaccinated

https://fullfact.org/health/economis...nation-status/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...cine-rdcr65xhp

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, as some of us are dealing with a death in the close family and a son in hospital, perhaps you need to do your own research…

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's a tricky one. You are right that more infections increase the chances of mutation, but there wouldn't be an evolutionary advantage to the virus developing vaccine resistance if there weren't plenty of vaccinated people to infect.

Just curious - what do the evolution-deniers make of all this rapid evolution going on before our eyes?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting article on this: Why England’s COVID ‘freedom day’ alarms researchers

Re: Coronavirus
 

maybe things have evolved since they were created

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here you go. Data for week 36.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1637066194

Source https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_week_36.pdf

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you're unvaccinated aged 50+ (for no good reason) you obviously have death wish.

I'm amazed at those numbers

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who won the VIP lane PPE sweepstake?

• Michael Gove referred Meller Designs, the firm of Conservative donor David Meller, to the VIP lane. The company subsequently landed over £160 million in PPE deals.
• Lord Feldman referred SG Recruitment to the VIP lane. The Conservative Peer Lord Chadlington sits on the Board of its parent company, Sumner Group Holdings Limited. They landed £50 million in PPE contracts.
• Dominic Cummings is named as the referrer of Global United Trading. The company landed a £350k PPE contract.

https://goodlawproject.org/47-compan...0lane%20161121

Re: Coronavirus
 

Didn't notice this news until now but thought it was worth reporting. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...night-12468578

I'll be interested to see if the lockdown works and what may happen if those told to isolate decide to ignore this new instruction.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Authoritarian measures coming from the birthplace of Hitler. Shouldn't be a massive surprise then......

Re: Coronavirus
 

I expect that those who don't want to get vaccinated believe the jab is more dangerous than Covid, so I can't see them following any lock down routines either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

From Radio 5 this morning, cafes and bars in Austria require you to show your vaccine certificate before being served so their entertainment may be reduced.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My maths may be wrong but it looks like 1 in 5 of the population will need to be checked ...the police will have their work cut out to cope with any non-compliance issues. Do the Austrians have to carry identification papers?

Re: Coronavirus
 

No idea . . but the police carry guns, maybe that will help ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

30 guns per 100 of the population in Austria, i wonder what percentage of unvaccinated own them.