Cable Forum - *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

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Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian@huth

It is very easy to quote what is possible on a connection but it is impossible to know what usage there is on every UBR unless you work for NTL and are privy to those stats.

not sure what your point is.

Quote:

The main fault with your argument though is that you have no control or comeback against anything that NTL say or do.

Not true. To say I have no comeback against anything ntl do is ludicrous. If ntl break their side of a contract I could take the matter to court.

Quote:

Check DOCSDIAG as much as you like but that does not prove anything other than what was happening at a specific moment in time.

*If* docsdiag is still working then it would be a simple matter to run a series of snapshots over time to establish an overall picture of usage patterns.

Quote:

If NTL were to contact you

1 'if'

Quote:

and tell you to modify your usage

followed by an 'and'

Quote:

and you didn't

followed by another

Quote:

so they followed up with removing your service you will have to look for another ISP. There is nothing at all that you could do about it.

Of course there is. I'd seriously consider taking them to court for breach of contract. My argument being that my internet usage did not affect the service for other customers (I'm on a particularly quiet UBR)

Quote:

Tell us how you could defend use of say 50Gb per month and keep your connection if NTL decided they no longer wanted you as a customer.

see above.

Quote:

People mention illegal activity because that is the primary reason for caps being introduced.

That might be one of the reasons they mention it but I still dont know why they get worked up over it. Incidentally and AFAIK the reason caps were introduced is because somebody got the decimal point in the wrong place when calculating the percentage of 'bandwidth abuse'. They cocked up big time.

Quote:

It is quite easy for NTL to identify users who download more than 1Gb per day and for them to discover what they are downloading no matter how you change things to try to hide what you are doing.

Not true. NTL cant currently tell what you are downloading. At best they can tell what sort of thing you are downloading. If they were to interrogate data at the packet level and decide what is fit and unfit then they would be seen as a 'content provider' rather than a 'service provider' and could well be held liable for any illegal content that was transferred through their system.

In any case it is a trivial matter for customers to use a service such as Secure Tunnel to mask the type of data they are downloading.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

I sortta agree with the human nature agruement from oblivous (to get something for free is nice, unless its crabs)

in my previous post ...
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...postcount=1050

i was wondering if ignition could answer a question re bandwidth... see if I can word it sufficiently....

Which puts more strain on the network out of the 2 scenerios...

1. Uploading at full speed
2. Downloading at full speed.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuG

i was wondering if ignition could answer a question re bandwidth... see if I can word it sufficiently....

Which puts more strain on the network out of the 2 scenerios...

1. Uploading at full speed
2. Downloading at full speed.

EDIT: Redid my (botched) sums, afraid downloading is the big bug-bear following the upstream upgrades last year, and the new tier ratios, sorry :angel:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Thank you ignition I had actually assumed it was uploading.

So to a point I was correct... so is the ideal solution to limit the uploading on the majority instead of attacking the downloading side ... eg my post

assuming your hopefully becoase true.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Ignition, please tell me whether the 30GB limit includes upload bandwidth, or is it just downloads?

I contacted ntl and they pointed me to the definitions in the AUP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUP Section 2

ntl: home's broadband and dial-up services are intended for normal recreational or educational use by individuals and families and our pricing and network architecture have been designed accordingly. Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers.

"Normal use"* of the service is defined as up to 1 gigabyte downstream of data transfer daily (which equates to approximately 200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes downloaded per day).

* Excludes customers who subscribed to ntl's 1 Mb Broadband service with 3 Gigabyte monthly usage allowance on, or after, 8th March 2005. For more information about the 3 Gigabyte monthly usage allowance that applies to this service

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntl FAQ

A usage allowance is the amount of data you are allowed to upload or download with your Internet connection each month. ntl's 1Mb broadband service, introduced on 8 March 2005, has a 3 gigabytes per month usage allowance. The allowance covers data sent (uploaded) to the Internet or received (downloaded) from the Internet by your cable modem.

In other words;

The 3GB per month usage limit on the new 1M service is both upload & download.

The 1GB per day usage guide on the new 2M & 3M services is download only.

HTH.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

I really think with all these usage allowances ntl should allow users to see how much of their limits have been used, as for example Plusnet do

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin

I really think with all these usage allowances ntl should allow users to see how much of their limits have been used, as for example Plusnet do

They say they'll be releasing a bandwidth usage tool later in the year ie 'coming soon' ;)

On another note, seeing as I'm out of hibernation for a bit I thought I'd post this link. Search for the phrase "Bandwidth caps in 2005" and you'll see an interesting little bit about BT not least of which is that the

Quote:

cost of bandwidth to an operation like BT is now about twenty-five cents a gig and dropping rapidly

Also interesting is the issue of caps to prevent customers from engaging in video on demand when the ISP wants to make this a separate chargeable service.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

not sure what your point is.

Just commenting on a couple of points you made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

Not true. To say I have no comeback against anything ntl do is ludicrous. If ntl break their side of a contract I could take the matter to court.

That was said in the context that if NTL say you have affected the service of other users you cannot prove otherwise. To say you could take the matter to court is one thing, to actually do it is another. Think cost and likelihood of winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

*If* docsdiag is still working then it would be a simple matter to run a series of snapshots over time to establish an overall picture of usage patterns.

Which still would not prove anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

1 'if'

followed by an 'and'

followed by another

Most situations contain "ifs" and "ands". If you took NTL to court and if you could afford the cost and if you won, what would the result be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

You cannot prove that it didn't affect the service of others and you would have exceeded their AUP usage guideline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

see above.

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

Nobody got the decimal point in the wrong place (post a link to where this was said). The bandwidth used in illegal activities is well known. ISPs the World over are capping and they all quote the same reasons. A calculator and a little bit of knowledge can soon show that someone maxing out 24/7 who uses hundreds of Gb of bandwidth a month is costing the ISP far more than the user is paying and with contention, several doing this can soon impact on others usage. Anyone using that amount of bandwidth is doing something illegal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

Why would deep packet inspection make them a content provider? There are many methods of masking your activities advertised, but do you believe the hype of adverts? ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

The way i see it is if they contact me over the cap, I dump all their services and go to an 8mb connection on ukonline...enuff said. Not that arsed really.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

The way i see it is if they contact me over the cap, I dump all their services and go to an 8mb connection on ukonline...enuff said. Not that arsed really.

why dont you just go now and save all the hot air you are blowing out ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian@huth

All sorts of stuff that doesn't make sense. <snip>

Ian I'm sorry but most of the questions you raise have self evident answers and most of your objections (eg what constitutes proof) are just plain pedantic for the sake of it. As for my sources re the decimal point cockup...they remain my own. It's not worth anyone losing their job over.

I've been reading your posts recently and boy you DO have to be right dont you? ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

The way i see it is if they contact me over the cap, I dump all their services and go to an 8mb connection on ukonline...enuff said. Not that arsed really.

If you can get it :D

And if you can then what you waiting for???

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

The way i see it is if they contact me over the cap, I dump all their services and go to an 8mb connection on ukonline...enuff said. Not that arsed really.

if you hurry up and go you'll get a free wireless router too.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious

If you post cr@p expect to be corrected. :) The law is very pedantic. If you can't win an argument, get abusive. ;)

I like to respond to posts that appear to convey wrong information that other members may take as being gospel and could suffer the consequences.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gary_580

if you hurry up and go you'll get a free wireless router too.

Thats great....... :o :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

why dont you just go now and save all the hot air you are blowing out ;)

Yeah thats right one comment thats a lot of hot air isnt it.....
I guess free speech isnt allowed on this site without some <ADMIN removed comment - no need for personal comments here> jumping down your throat cos you criticised their beloved capping, Yeah i can get ukonline but i think ill just max out my 3mb cos i can until they start monitoring the cap, thing is i already dumped the ****ty tv, the crap phone service so bb is all i have left on ntl, and being my phones already switched it'll only take 7 days to switch to ukonline, but then again im having so much fun maxing out my ubr what the hell i may just keep on doing it till they start sending letters,,,,,why ?

Cos i can..