Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Quick, invade the USA too then, just in case.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

I'm with Graham on this one. If you don't want a debate, goodbye.

Agree with him or not,Graham's posts are always thought provoking, occasionally provocative, always reasoned, always intelligent, always detailed. Some posts on CF are bigoted, uninformed, regurgitated-from-the tabloids drivel; have a pop at them instead.
__________________

You're happy to be seen comparing muslims to the Nazis are you. And Paul M feels fit to have a pop at Graham!

And on your other point re other solutions; I've already responded.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

That may be :D
........but it doesn't invalidate my point that you can ultimately bend over backwards too far in trying not to offend.
__________________

erm.......no :confused:
I'm pointing out where appeasement gets us sometimes. :dozey:

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Whatever way I look at it you're comparing muslims to nazis in raising this 'appeasement' idea. Who precisely are we supposed to be appeasing?

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

You can look at it any way you want but what you are alleging isn't true :dozey: muslims

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

How do you know what my race or religion is? Bit of a pre-judgement there, don't you think? Presuming I am "guilty" because of my opinions... tut tut
__________________

No, try New York, Bali, etc etc
__________________

IF it's true reporting, Andy. Key word there is IF. After all, IF my auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Assuming that is true (my understanding is that Republicans were treated with suspicion) did it work? No. The police's record in finding good reason is not good.
__________________

I quite specifically said I didn't want to re-open that debate and yet.....
__________________

So how are you making your argument against so called appeasement then? And we're appeasing muslims are we? Is that all muslims, the majority of British muslims that don't support terrorism. Please do explain.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

OK, I must have mis-understood... I presumed that you meant the debate on what was said specifically, as opposed to the question of whether the reporting was accurate.

By the way, this shows that because one person doesn't want something, they won't necessarily get their own way...;)

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Certainly. It has been pointed out today that muslims may experience more stop and search and more counter terrorist activities in order to try to stop loss of life in this country from terrorist activities. Some sections of the muslim community (and our own liberal contingent) are up in arms about this. If we back down from such counter terror activities then we are appeasing those sections of our society. Seems straightforward enough to me :confused:
My argument against appeasement is that sometimes giving in like that can lead to an increased confidence in those who would do us harm (as it did in the 1930's) and spur them on and indeed allow them a freer reign in their activities.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Actually, the VCP's (Vehicle Check Points), body searches before entering Belfast City Center etc, wheren't really designed to ''stop'' the terrorists. They where designed to make attacks more difficult.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Catholic/Republicans 99% = the same thing.

Did it work? not very well but then again the IRA had a political agenda that we could work on, and an avenue for peace.

What is the muslim extremists agenda? oh that's right destruction of the west and what it stands for. Could be a bit difficult negotiating peace with that.

The polices record in finding good reason is not good, based on what exactly. Do you have personal experience of it?

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Actually I think before the peace process Sinn Fein polled about 23% of the Northern Ireland electorate. So that would have given republicans approx 340,000 votes, which would constitute less than half of catholic voters in Northern Ireland. :)

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

I think the agenda is just a little bit more complicated than that, the Middle East not being a particularly simple issue and our historic role within it not terribly impressive.

As I have said more than once, during the SUS laws of the 70s the Police were shown quite categorically not to have shown good judgement (see the Scarman report). Searches were only discriminate in that they disproportionally - by some margin - targeted the black population. Obviously blacks are Ok now, its Asians' turn. And yes I have personal experience. I have been illegally searched, illegally held and even had a nice 6ft tall policeman point out how big his boots were to me whilst I was illegally held in a cell (can't think why he should point that out to me). Is that enough for you?
__________________


1. If we 'back down' from indiscriminate searching/harassment of people because of their race/religion, that is not appeasement. That's having a sense of justice.

2. In discussing appeasement you refer to the Nazis (due to a previous post, granted). The appearance at least is one of comparison.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

And as I pointed out, the 70s were about 30 years ago. You may as well accuse all German soldiers of goose-stepping! It is also a statistic that certain crimes in certain areas were committed by blacks more often than whites or Asians. You probably wouldn't complain if more skinheads than pensioners were searched at a football match, would you?

Why not move on from what was reported in the 70s and look at what's happening now. Remember, there are a lot more Asian police officers now... are you accusing them of being racist too?

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

1. Lessons from history can be learnt; you don't move on from them
2. I don't think you understand the massively detrimental effect indiscriminate (ie nowt to do with suspicion) had at the time.
3. A lot more Asian police officers? Still rare as rocking horse sh*t (and I live in Greater Manchester where the police's record, by their own admission and widespread evidence, is hardly a bastion of race-neutral policing).