Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

eh? :confused:

That, to me, reads that you've chosen between the truth or the BBC . . .

:shrug:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

In context I suspect he's choosing between Russia and the BBC.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Yep.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

BREAKING: Reuters reporting that Russia Communications Regulator has, in Russia, blocked access to Facebook.

Very Precise Notions. is your friend.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

True, all hands need to be on deck to deal with the current situation. I only hope that there is no undue Putin influence in our Government. I wouldn't think that there is as, even those who may have been bought, have now seen this individual for what he is.

There have also been allegations that Russia interfered with our (and other) elections and the EU referendum in order to stir up trouble and cause division in the West.

If true, he certainty succeeded in his aims. However, invading Ukrainia appears to have undone all this. I have friends right across the political spectrum, from all walks of life, faiths, races etc.

Without exception, every one of them has condemned this invasion and want to do whatever they can do to help. Long held feuds, political differences, business rivalries, prejudices etc have all been tossed to one side in favour of unity over this issue.

It's the same in the wider world too, former MP Gyles Brandreth said this morning that we effectively "rejoined the EU again for a day" after we were invited to partake in discussions with them in how to deal with this.

Could anyone have ever imagined that happening, even a fortnight ago?

Attacking nuclear power plants and a hospital (where children with cancer will die if moved to be evacuated) shows the depths that this wicked and depraved dictator will go to achieve his aims.

The best thing will be for his own to topple him from power or assassinate him. It's been an uncomfortable realisation for me today having to accept that I no longer believe that all God given life is precious.

---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:34 ----------

They did the same thing to the BBC news site earlier (see post #696).

As I said in that post, I fear that the use of a VPN could be traced and ultimately cost people their freedom/lives.

I'm hoping that someone who knows more about such things can advise us.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I think they got more to worry about than checking individual's internet connection. Seeing someone is using a VPN is relatively easy but then tracing where you went is a far bit more complicated and to do that for everyone....

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Four NATO warships have docked on the banks of the River Tay in Dundee after arriving from Norway in the early hours of Friday morning, I actually saw one of them being guided in by a couple of tug boats early this afternoon.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It would be automated, not manual…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

detecting a VPN usage surely but tracing all the nodes?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Could this be done en masse?

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:22 ----------

Maybe they will simply forbid people from using a VPN, so that might not matter??

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ----------

Is this sort of thing routine, or could NATO be making preparations for being called upon?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I'm not so sure, Richard, but maybe Hugh can enlighten us with his thoughts.;)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

:scratch: Were any of them minelayers? :devsmoke: :D

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Can't reveal that mate, signed the Official Secrets Act. :D

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

If they were in public view, and filmed by STV, pretty sure you confirming that they were two frigates and two replenishment ships wouldn’t be a breach… ;)

https://news.stv.tv/north/two-nato-w...ion-of-ukraine

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I think he was going to say 'frigate' but thought the swear filter might get him :D

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

:D

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Russia total losses since start of invasion up to March 4th.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646440880

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Trouble is they have a lot more of all of those and a cornered mad man at the helm.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

As well as their own, they can count on Belarus to chip in too. Plus they have a fully-functioning economy back home whilst Ukraine's basic resources of food, energy, health, communications and sanitation are all worsening by the day.
Only real hope is Putin being deposed which seems unlikely at present.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Latest UK Intel:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646479957

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

BREAKING: President Putin has declared that Western Sanctions imposed on Russia are akin to a declaration of war, he has also stated that any country which imposes a no fly zone over Ukraine, that Russia will be at war with that country.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, is due to have a video call with the entire U.S Senate later today.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

BREAKING: Visa and MasterCard have announced they have suspended operations in Russia. - AFP News Agency.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Beat me to it - I saw it on TASS.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...93&d=164652115

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

He already knows that "no fly" isnt going to happen, he's a few days too late on that.
He seems to be getting pretty desperate to go to war with [most of] the rest of the world though.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It does look like he's searching for an excuse to go the whole hog doesn't it . . .
maybe that's his plan* - put the fear of God (whichever you subscribe to) into everyone and hope they back down :shrug:



* or possibly he's gone 110% loopy and doesn't care :shocked:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Anyone seen the Russian soldiers trapped in the lift? The Ukranians switched the power off and trapped them, they're really not sending their best are they, you'd have thought one of them would have had the sense to suggest taking the stairs

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

BREAKING: The U.S. is working with Poland on the possibility of Poland providing fighter jets to Ukraine in return for American F-16 jet fighters, U.S. officials said on March 5.

The deal would require White House approval and congressional action, U.S. officials said- Wall Street Journal.

---------- Post added at 07:20 ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 ----------

Russia has warned the West about providing Ukraine military hardware and that it must stop.

They’re saying this coz they’re getting their arses handed to them on a platter.

---------- Post added at 07:22 ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 ----------

China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi said the “evolution” of the situation in Ukraine is “something China does not want to see” in a phone call with US Secretary of State Blinken on March 5, according to a statement from the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs published by CNN.

China's foreign minister also called on the U.S., NATO, and the EU to “pay attention to the negative impact of NATO’s continuous eastward expansion on Russia’s security." - CNN

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

By 'evolution' of the situation in Ukrania, does he mean that China doesn't like the general way its getting out of hand or the fact that Ukrania is fighting back so well against Russia?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Wants to keep access to Russia's gas supplies so Putin's called in a favour. Doesn't want more support given to Ukraine ie aircraft, missiles, drones, etc.
(Think you mean Ukraine not Ukrania.)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

hmm . . so we have 'The West' warning Russia about invading Ukraine, Russia warning the West about supplying military hardware to Ukraine, and now China telling the USA that they don't like how things are going,

Looks very much like the essential ingredients are in the pot. Allow to simmer slowly with occasional stirring, slowly bring to the boil and add a touch of N. Korea for added flavour.

Serve while hot :erm:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

China has got used to being wealthy. I am sure a desolate Earth is not what they want

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I'm sure economic sanctions against Russia will be doing the Chinese economy the world of good too :rolleyes:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Thanks for explaining.

Yes, Ukraine, not sure where I got Ukrania from, I have a friend who is half Ukranian, so perhaps I assumed his father was from 'Ukrania' :confused:

Also, been told that 'The Ukraine' is what the Russians call it as a territory and that locals prefer it to be simply called 'Ukraine'.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Not enough to want a desolate Earth where wealth is meaningless

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Interesting thread here from Phillips O'Brien (Professor of Strategic Studies, University St Andrews, Author: How the War was Won, and Second Most Powerful Man in the World. Editor in Chief, War in History).

The thread is on the logistics of war - why we are almost certainly overestimating the amount of strength the Russian Army has on hand, and the amount they can actually get to Ukraine.

It's worth reading the whole thread and its links. Some points:

• Russian Army is likely a victim of dictators' armies - investment is in flashy weapons but not the necesary, less glamorous infrastructure they need.
• The 40-mile convoy with some of Russia's best tech on it is a disaster as much of it is marooned (out of fuel, dead batteries, stuck in the mud due to poor tyre maintenance.)
• Rations have not been kept up to scratch, with soldiers given food seven years out of date. Some have even run out of food and resorted to looting.
• The Ukranians know these weaknesses, and have successfully attacked Russian convoys.
• To win the war, Ukraine needs to attack every Russian truck they can see, particularly fuel trucks.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Latest UK Intel:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646567156

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Zelensky says that Ukraine is in possession of maps and records, obtained from those captured.

“They are planning to bomb Odesa.” - Kyiv Independent.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Bomb with what though? Hopefully orthodox munitions. Very open statement that one

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Kremlin: “Military operation going to plan and to schedule.”

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2022/03/2.jpg

Alleged Darwin Award winning image of Russian Paras taking a lift to the top of a building. The caretakers turned off the power. If this is true then it is hardly a surprise the Russians are struggling

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

BREAKING: Netflix suspends its services in Russia.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://t.co/bL0l8vcC53

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I reckon the one on the far right did suggest the stairs, anyone know if they got out, did they blow the doors off :idea: :shocking:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

As per the BBC news earlier, Russia has today switched off the BBC World Service TV channel.

Someone's snitched on us for taking off Russia Today ;)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Hacking group Anonymous interrupts Russian state TV programs with footage of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine and an anti-war message.

It claims to have accessed TV channels “Russia 24”, “Channel 1”, “Moscow 24”, & streaming services Wink and Ivi. - Kyiv Independent

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

A major Internet backbone provider, Cogent Communications, has ceased providing services to Russia yesterday (Sunday). They say that it won't disconnect people from the internet, but it will be a lot slower.

Unconfirmed report that Russia is to imminently disconnect itself from the internet anyway.

[Admin Insert:- State your source or link to these news updates.]

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Maggy - Posting a link is not always necessary or possible. In either case. Just add the source like I have been doing. I only get my updates from verifiable news outlets and journalists with bonafide media credentials.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Latest UK Intel:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646650074

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Mick, you have your finger on the pulse of things more than most: do you think Moldova is Putin's next target? And if so, what could be the implications?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Due to a technical issue, I couldn't/can't post the link. Could someone kindly do it for me please? There's lots of media reports, though how trustworthy they are, I don't know.

The 'Russia to imminently cut itself off from the internet' claim is marked as unverified, as this was a verbal claim from a contributor to a discussion on the BBC World Service.
---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------

Last night, Channel 4 showed the first three episodes from a series that the current Ukraine President was in where he played a comedy part as...the Ukraine President! It had English subtitles.

In the current circumstances, i'm not sure whether I think this was appropriate or not.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Perhaps this one?

https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/c...ussia-internet

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

The show partly contributed to him becoming the actual president, and any international rights payments will go towards supporting those in Ukraine who made it.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I'm just urging people to make sure that what they are reporting is actual truth.FB and other social media don't always check contributions.Just because it's on the internet doesn't make it actual fact.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Thank you. They say it's being done to help to frustrate the efforts of Russia, but it will also hinder everyday Russians from accessing our news or organising anti war groups etc.

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

Good point.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No it won't Richard. Read the article.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I don’t think it was a coincidence that U.S Secretary of State, Antony Blinken was in Moldova yesterday. Last week they, along with Georgia, officially applied to join the EU. Like Ukraine, there are pro-Russian factions in these countries, but the countries application to join the EU, gives a clear message to Putin, where their political allegiances align.

Any ex-Soviet State is a Putin target right now. But Moscow is failing in its main objectives in Ukraine, its losing the information war. You only have to look at the blackout of outside news getting in to Russia. Facebook and Twitter completely censored, if Russia was meant to be winning this, it’d be glad to show the worlds news in Russia, right now, that’s not happening because Russia is being frustrated at the fierce Ukraine resistance and its embarrassed.

For all intent and purposes, the West, NATO may not physically get involved in this. But every west spy agency has their hand in this helping Ukraine, advising them, and they’re winning by defeating Russian logistics, destroying their fuel tank vehicles with just Molotov cocktails. Russia is also losing experienced savvy fighter pilots, think I’ve seen 45 planes have been shot down since start of invasion.

Russian morale is very low. Their soldiers (conscripts) surrendering relatively easily, there is footage of them crying for their mothers. The Russians are poorly equipped, vs high Ukrainian fighters morale, using high tech military gear given to them from us and other European nations and the U.S, their soldiers fighting on home soil, with a population behind them. As long as we can keep supplying them with resources, they got this.

Putin has to now know this invasion was a grave error and his presidency is now in endgame. Yeah, who cares he’s been spitting feathers and coming out with all kinds of vitriol about sanctions are akin to declaration of war.

The risk is and some are saying, Putin could still well order a nuclear strike in Ukraine, albeit a smaller scale one, this would then ultimately initiate a massive world wide condemnation, probably forcing rest of us in to war, can any of us realistically see us still standing by while a murderous madman is dropping nukes over Ukraine?

We also need to keep an eye on what Russia is doing with the Ukrainian seized nuclear plant.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Map Intel of latest Russian advance or lack of:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646662737

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I really dont see how things like this are helpful.

The people in charge are not going to care, all its doing is affecting the lives of ordinary Russians, who have no say in this war at all.

In the case of the Internet, its cutting out a major source of "real" news, rather than "Russian" news.

It likely makes Putin feel even more right about the "evil west" having it out for Russia, and more desperate to win.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Spor on, though I think that applying to join the EU is mainly symbolic at this stage as it could take years, even if they're accepted.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Unfortunately, in a war it's not always possible.


Look at the Ukrainian soldiers on that Island that told a Russian warship "Too xxxx themselves" and reported dead.


Now it appears they are alive.


Even the BBC report events and say unvarified.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

The Kremlin has set out their terms.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...nato-invasion/

Also this.

This war will be a total failure, Russian whistleblower says.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-claims.html

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

So to use a phrase the Americans like, Russia is looking for an off ramp, it's also a phrase I heard a couple of times this morning on Bloomberg as the 'experts' were discussing what Russia would do next.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Got to love the German Embassy in South Africa.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1646668895

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

TBH, those terms don't seem too onerous.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I think the "Ceasing all military action" is the trickiest one. What does this mean? The rest could presumably be overturned in future referendums.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Are you joking?

So Ukraine just let’s Putin think he’s won, Putin can’t be seen to lose and he’s lost this war, sure he’s got a massive nuclear arsenal but that’s no good to him, when it involves Armageddon. So he’s now got to save face and he has to walk away with some kind of win to stay in power.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I wouldn't accept them.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I don't think Ukraine will either. Perhaps a counter would be to allow Russia to lease the Crimea naval base.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Latest UK Intel:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646674686

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Really interesting, thanks. I guess key to the next few days/weeks is the number of assets Ukraine have still in play and the weaponry they can employ. The ingress & distribution of current tech handheld anti-air & armour will really be a key factor.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646675783

So, the goal of Russia starting a war in Ukraine was to stop any war starting in Ukraine…

Sounds legit and trustworthy…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Careful Hugh, any sign you disbelieve them and it’s 15 years in their prisons if you were to spin their story any other way.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

So how's the info war going?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladim...ine?ref=scroll

It's worth reading the full article.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Germany rejects proposed European embargo on Russian oil imports.

Scholz said he's “preferring to focus on ‘sustainable’ pressure on Moscow that would not impose too heavy a burden on Germans.” - Kyiv Independent.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

A retired US Treasury Secretary on PM this evening described an oil embargo as the “last bullet” for use if all else fails, because it would be difficult and it would take time to arrange in any way remotely sustainable. But he believed it had to remain on the table because in the long run this is a fight Putin simply can’t be allowed to win.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

FT reported yesterday that US was speaking to Venezuela about it supplying oil to the US in place of Russia. Venezuela is facing sanctions from the US so isn't supplying oil at present.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

BREAKING: JUST IN: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky will give a “historic address” to MPs on Tuesday evening by video link - Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle.

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

From the official Russian Embassy in UK, Twitter account: Ambassador #Kelin: posted in last 30 minutes: “The Embassy is currently operating in a hostile environment. This has an impact on the logistics and the security of the diplomatic mission. We are receiving threats.”

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:02 ----------

Third round of Ukraine-Russia talks ends with no results.

The parties agreed to change the logistics of humanitarian corridors, according to Mykhailo Podoliak, advisor to Zelensky’s administration. However, “there are no results that will significantly improve the situation.” - Kyiv Independent.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

World's smallest violin plays. Imagine having to operate in a hostile environment!

They should feel ashamed every waking minute of their lives and I hope their dreams are horrid.



Exactly, he is trying to find a way out. He can't be allowed to have this invasion pay off with more land and force a sovereign state to adopt his foreign policy. It's up to Ukraine who they ally with.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

NOTE: I have to say I would not always link to or show offensive language… but I can make an exception….

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646681210

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Reuters: NEW: The U.S may ban Russian oil imports without Europe.

The U.S. is willing to ban Russian oil imports into the country without the participation of its European allies, according to the sources cited by Reuters.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Senior Pentagon official: Nearly 100% of Russia’s combat power already in Ukraine.

According to a U.S. defense official cited by CNN, Russia has already launched more than 625 missiles against Ukraine. He also said that Ukraine has enough surface-to-air weapons for protection. - Kyiv Independent.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

He already has Crimea
The two other provinces he already had, in regards that Ukraine wasn’t in charge of them and he was funding rebels.
If he agrees to immediately withdraw then no further military action is required, anyway.

The only actual demand that is required onerous is the change in the constitution that effectively bars them from joining the EU and NATO.

I think to end it, that is a price worth paying as there are ways around it going forward.

That is absolutely the case.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

They may not have a choice

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

Why would Russia lease it when it’s been in their possession for 8 yrs?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

If he gets away with this, Moldova will be next, then Ukraine again, then he’ll try one of the ex-Sov Republics that in NATO (Latvia, Lithuania, etc.) - he’ll keep pushing, because that’s what bullies do…

He’s previously stated he intends to get all the ex-Sov Republics (and more) into a “Great Russian Empire" - he won’t stop until he’s stopped.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

You have to give him a way out, or this continues.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

But it could slow hm down and get him out and about long enough for a joint intelligence operation to put a bullet in his head

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I think it'll be no deal. They were saying on CNN today (don't have a link and may not be accurate) they were getting word that in places Ukraine was pushing back especially where Russia has pushed forward leaving the remaining troops a bit thin on the ground.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

He won’t surrender, so this continues unless he’s replaced or a negotiated settlement is conducted.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I doubt they would trust Putin's Russia. Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons for the promise that their borders would be intact and this promise was not honoured.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

By the US, U.K. and Russia

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Just the last country on the list. The UK and US have not violated Ukraine's territory.

And Gorbachev is on record as being happy for Poland etc to join NATO in case you're eluding to that particular myth espoused by Putin and his friends.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Real life isn’t a Tom Clancy book…

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115893) Just the last country on the list. The UK and US have not violated Ukraine's territory. And Gorbachev is on record as being happy for Poland etc to join NATO in case you're eluding to that particular myth espoused by Putin and his friends.

As was posted in this thread on the 24th February

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

This isn't giving him a way out, it's giving him a huge victory. One of the conditions will almost certainly be that sanctions are removed as well. So he would have won a compliant government in Ukraine, Crimea officially recognised as Russian and two new puppet 'independent' states. Huge success for Putin and a reward for his aggression.

It has to stop. We can't keep making concessions to his violence and bullying. It has ramifications beyond Ukraine to all of Europe. He'll just do it again and once again it'll be 'Well, you need to give him something'. We need him to lose and be seen to lose. Even if he gets the above via violence at least the sanctions will damage Russia's economy to the point it cost too much and not only does it make him think twice about another invasion but Russia won't have the economic ability to wage another war.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

But they promised it’s security……….

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

That was not the statement you answered…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Which of the following have the US and UK broken?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda...ity_Assurances

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Or the Russian army could be defeated.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...dymyr-zelensky

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

This is a negotiation between Ukraine and Russia, not Russia and the rest of the world.

Putin has now made Russia a pariah state, no other country is compelled to promise Russia anything.

Not compliant as in Belarus compliant, but just one that doesn’t join NATO or the EU.


He already has them.

We’re not the ones being killed.



None NATO countries maybe

maybe p, maybe not.

That will be totally unacceptable to him. Do you really want to back him into a corner so far……and gamble on what he may or may not do?

I think Russia has proven how weak they actually are, I think if this is resolved in this negotiation Putin goes away. They don’t have the military muscle they think they have, he gets off without looking weak and retires with his millions.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

A senior Pentagon official said Monday that 500 more American troops will be deployed to Europe

The official added that Putin had moved nearly all of his pre-staged troops -- estimated to be over 150,000 -- into Ukraine - AFP News Agency.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It’s a side issue, yes, and maybe the wording of the Budapest memorandum gives the U.K. and US a way out. Ukraine has not been directly threatened “with” nuclear weapons but they have been directly attacked by a “nuclear” power…..so it comes down to interpretation, but you have to admit …..since 2014. We’ve hung Ukraine out to dry.

Our failure to act then has facilitated this. If we’d have been as united as we are now with sanctions etc, then this probably wouldn’t have got to this.