Re: Coronavirus
 

Now you've had it for a few hours, how are you feeling? Friends of mine have reported things like a large swelling where the injection was administered, feeling extremely weak/tired or just generally dreadful. Most said that this lasts for about 24 hours.

I doubt i'll sleep tonight as I don't know how i'll cope with this on top of the pain etc that I have anyway, but I know I have no alternative.

I'm just hoping that this doesn't happen to everyone that has it, which is why i'm asking how you feel after having had it earlier in the evening.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's "living with the virus" Richard. A calculation where there's a number that the Government is willing to put up with if it allows the economy to function.

Even Sunak has highlighted a concern that giving the plebs a Pfizer every six months is billions of pounds despite the vaccine being the key (and sometimes only) defence in the pandemic.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ster-programme

---------- Post added at 22:58 ---------- Previous post was at 22:56 ----------

Richard you'll be fine. Both my parents had the flu jab and booster vaccine and had no side effects at all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I felt no effects at all other than after the first one, my arm was a little sore for a few hours (but only why I was lying on it in bed).

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 22:58 ----------

Well sad as that may be, people die from illness all the time.
No one cared much about the flu killing 1000's every year (the total since 2000 is well over 100,000, not to mention every other fatal disease and virus).
One of my work colleagues died just two weeks ago from an illness (not covid related in any way).
Illness killed my dad, my grandad, my grandma, both my wifes parents, one of our brother in laws, etc etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Upper left arm is tender but that’s all so far. Our eldest had Pfizer earlier this year and was knocked sideways by the first dose - really sleepy. Second wasn’t nearly as bad. I’ll post back tomorrow if I get any side effects from the booster.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who have likely died because of a number of other causes, not just Covid by itself.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:hugs:

Re: Coronavirus
 

But covid will probably have hastened or caused the deaths from any underlying causes.

---------- Post added at 00:45 ---------- Previous post was at 00:40 ----------

Thanks, that will make me feel better. I think it's Pfizer that i'm having this time as well (the one that has to be kept very cold).

Re: Coronavirus
 

Both the main booster options (Pfizer and Moderna) have to be kept cold.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not necessarily, we’ve seen how they record the death, if a person has died within 28 days of a positive Covid-19 result. That person could have had a fatal heart attack, it’s still a Covid death to be tallied.

Re: Coronavirus
 

France to ban travel to/from U.K. without a ‘compelling reason’ from Saturday morning

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-b...cases-12497105

Re: Coronavirus
 

I had my booster pretty much 24 hours ago (Pfizer after AZ doses 1 and 2) My arm aches a bit and I feel a little under the weather to the point where I have just taken a couple of paracetamol but that's purely because I need to do some work. If I wasn't working, a 'take it easy' morning would probably do the job. The side effects are definitely milder than after my first AZ jab :tu:

Interestingly, the vaccination centre I went to (in Watford) had to shut down drop ins due to the size of the queues forming. This is the local presses take on it - https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...ire-cancelled/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Stable horse bolted and all that.

Omicron will be in Europe, including France. Stopping travel to and from the UK won't make a blind bit of difference.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Tbf no different to what the U.K. and several other countries have done with South Africa etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There’s still merit in restricting travel from the highest risk places as a delaying tactic. Further seeding events will only bring forward the collapse of the healthcare system.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The ONS have two different measures.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...lesmethodology

Re: Coronavirus
 

The French mainlands first detected case of omicron was on 25th November as of December 14th they had 130 known omicron variant cases.

It’s already seeded, they’re just a week or so behind us.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I accept that, but if you are planning control measures inviting folk in from a country with none isn’t going to assist the situation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I take your point but thats not entirely true though is it? Pre departure tests from the U.K. are required, France could insist on those being PCR

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Today's ZOE video by Professor Tim Spector of King's College London. Worth a watch if you want see, what I consider to be a considered analysis on, what's happening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF79-XprdfU

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is another (similar) take on that - a pre-release paper on Omicron (my brother in law sent it to me, as he subscribes to it (being in the "business")).

https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/ha...ceptor-binding

I found this bit near the end encouraging

Re: Coronavirus
 

Much as I dislike Macron, the fishing dispute with the UK has ended and this looks a genuine public health move. France is a key stakeholder in Eurostar so will take a hit from this move.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Like much in politics a lot of it is perception of the public. He's done something, may not work, may get reversed, but he's done something.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting, thank you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59683343

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-59673271

There’s the propaganda wing of the British state preparing everyone for an extended school holiday.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I too found the last bit encouraging giving me some hope especially for Christmas . Hopefully this will make covid easier to treat and will stave off as many people having to be admitted to ICU and ventilated in hospital.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pop the France travel ban the other way round (and for a second negating the probability they already have an Omicron infection in their country which is just a few days behind ours).

How many people here would be suggesting we ban non-essential travel to and from France when
- there is a high incidence of a new highly infectious strain of the pandemic into which the facts of how it is different is not fully yet known
- the country's CMO and PM were on the TV the night before - and on previous occasions - talking up how serious the situation really is
- the country reached a record number of infections despite a high vaccination level (both 2nd and 3rd doses)
Would we be wanting this in our country? I suspect a fair amount of those who support restrictions would indeed be supporting such travel restrictions.


I don't agree with doing so, because the last month has shown you can't really stop it with travel restrictions, and it doesn't slow it down much either (in fact, it's not exactly clear which restrictions would work any more, you have to look at the countries who have gone further into lockdowns), now we have vaccines that's a game changer anyway - most people with Covid recover, it is mainly those with other issues who are badly affected, a fair amount don't even get symptoms, if that HK study is an indication it absolutely will lead to milder disease. Protect the vulnerable, get vaccinated, it will eventually pass. A high transmissible virus will presumably pass quicker, if it's allowed to. Not saying doing nothing is really viable until we know what that will mean, but, getting otherwise healthy people infected would mean you'd need some serious game changer in a new variant to reverse that immunity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Israel have put the U.K. on their red list for travel.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some information released about the first death with omicron

70 yrs old
No underlying health issues
Non drinker
Non smoker
Not vaccinated

Re: Coronavirus
 

Tells you a lot.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A lady from the hospital called today.

"You were told to isolate as a household from 1st January, after the patient has been to the local testing centre for a PCR test that same day.

This has now been modified under new advice. The entire household must isolate from 8am on 21st December, until 2 days after the patient's hospital appointment on 5th January. Do not go to work, do not leave your home, do not accept visitors into your home".

I explained that she has an urgent cardiac scan on 21st December.

"I shall consult with my seniors, and get back to you tomorrow morning".

18 day's of isolation, I'd better get some shopping done, as there are no home delivery slots anytime before mid January. :(:(:(:(

Re: Coronavirus
 

Strange have a op appointment 30th December no such message . Guess you are going to uhw ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yup, her second op for her other eye. Day surgery unit.

---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

@joglynne. Our local Iceland has recently stopped all home deliveries.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can you share what it tells you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are you deliberately trying to be thick ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm asking a question in a civil manor could you answer in a similar way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Huh?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll ask you this, do you think the lack of vaccinations for this individual has led to his illness?

Re: Coronavirus
 

A man, giving his name only as John, made the claim after phoning in to Nick Ferrari’s show on LBC.

“I didn’t have a relationship with him, my sister did,” he said.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------

i have no idea, but i imagine being 70 means your nearing the end of your journey.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Did you ask that in a Danny Dyer voice ?

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:27 ----------

So, he’s making it all up then ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The question remains as to what was the status of the infectious person that passed it onto them.
People keep forgetting that for each person that gets infected there was a person who was infected and infectious. It is the infectious people that are the bigger problem, as they are the ones passing it around.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Really? I don't think that 70 years of age is that old nowadays, my thoughts on the matter were he caught the virus because he didn't have his vaccinations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Source?

Meanwhile this is interesting.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1639682975

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nope……. It became a serious illness due to him not being vaccinated

Re: Coronavirus
 

Gosh i never considered that, well spotted you clever boy.

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

do have the medical records to hand?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Isn't that what I said? I said he caught the virus because he didn't have the vaccinations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Mainstream media bbc/sky should you wish to check

To your second point. Denmark might disagree

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, you said he caught the virus due to not being vaccinated, the vaccine doesn’t stop you catching it, but provides significant protection against serious illness/death

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Behave yourself, people need tinfoil at Christmas

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, I know that, and you knew fine well what I meant when I more or less said if he had been vaccinated he would not have been hospitalised and unfortunately died, stop nit-picking ffs.

Re: Coronavirus
 

it’s not nit picking. It could be misread or misinterpreted by some.

Stop taking it personally

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, obviously by you!:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, obviously…. Enjoy your evening.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If it’s LBC it’s probably a producer.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seeing as he apparently had little or no contact with others, lack of vaccination seems irrelevant.
Link
Official stats show that there was a death in Northampton in that time frame.
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

She will have a PCR test done as she leaves the hospital, so we are to self-isolate together as a household, until she gets a negative test result back.

If it comes back positive, we are to do regular LFT tests and self-isolate a further 10 days. She and our twins are in the "vulnerable" category.

But I have not been able to get hold of any LFT packs. :(:(:(

Re: Coronavirus
 

Would it not have been better for him to have been vaccinated anyway, after all, whether he was in contact with anyone or not I would have thought that most elderly people would have taken the vaccinations to be on the safe side.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Compared to completely isolating yourself, going out for a total of 3 jabs is a bigger risk. If he would've had to travel by public transport that would've been an even bigger risk.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It seems not.

If everything stated is correct ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Its not nit picking, its been repeated many times now that vaccinations do not stop you catching the virus. Your statement was wrong.

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

Order them online ?
I tried to get some locally yesterday, none available, I could order some though.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:confused: How is going out for a total of 3 jabs, not more of a risk than isolating yourself?

Re: Coronavirus
 

How is the "risk" measured.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ok, what I should have said was that if he had the vaccinations it would have probably helped him not being hospitalised, that better?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Absolutely. They may well have saved his life.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The guy who died went nowhere and died.
Maybe 2 quick trips for a jab and things would have ended differently

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well he has to have caught covid somehow. Some things aren't adding up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Amazon prime, Bezos developed the Omicron variant and is now delivering it free to your homes ( as long you subscribe)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lived in a block of flats. There’s evidence from the quarantine hotels of airborne transmission (despite what the WHO say!) between people in adjacent rooms through the flow of air as people open and close doors.

Re: Coronavirus
 

None available, despite having checked several times a day so far.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Must be a local thing - still available online here (in Leeds).

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/chris-whit...141926249.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

I checked at 10:30 and none were available just went to the site again and this time they were available and I now have a box on order. I hope the site you use has some too. Worth rechecking.
<<hugs>>

Re: Coronavirus
 

A whole new building went up at our local hospital, the largest in Wales. It's 100% for isolating covid patients from the rest of the hospital complex. In theory, that would allow the rest of the hospital to carry-on as usual. But in practice things are still stuttering due to staffing problems.

It's the chunk in the middle covered in coloured panels.

Re: Coronavirus
 

WOW that would be a really great help, shame about the lack of staff but maybe there will be ways to use the staff they have more efficiently with the new set up. Fingers crossed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you can't get any, I may be able to spare some.

Well, I had my covid & flu jabs yesterday lunchtime. The nurse said it would be better to have the flu jab in my right arm as i'm right handed as the covid jab sometimes causes stiffness/pain in the arm where it's administered.

After the jabs I felt really tired and had the best sleep that I've had in a very long time (even with sleeping tablets).

I woke up at about 11pm, whilst feeling sleepy and weak, I had no other after effects.

Today, however, my arm is stiff and painful in the top half and my hand. The pain is bearable because i'm on painkillers for other things anyway, which is a good job as I am up to my limit.

I would urge anyone who has yet to have their booster to have it in their less dominant hand and take painkillers if necessary. Booking the following day off work is also advisable due to the fatigue.

Thanks to those who reassured me that it would turn out ok, this was very much appreciated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Obviously, more data required, however concerning if true

https://www.joe.co.uk/coronavirus/uk...HYlCWMjTM9FHtA

Re: Coronavirus
 

I've now seen "studies" that say it is, and others that say it isnt ... so take your pick.

I suppose the best part is none seem to say its worse.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh, that’s probably coming….

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think with how it appears to be spreading the numbers in the New Year could be quite horriffic. Guess all we can do is wait and see

Re: Coronavirus
 

The difficulties for most studies are that most populations will have different combinations of immunity.

All the different types of vaccines, some boosted, some not. Different variants of infection, infection plus vaccine, etc.

There’s even dispute as to whether the order of infection plus vaccine matters.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Provided that previous immunity (boosted or not, having covid before) keeps people out of hospital, then it doesn't really matter as much.


They have usually focused on hospital capacity when deciding what to do, don't see why this should be any different.


It still seems to be the case that the unvaccinated are worst off, which is not entirely surprising.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Supposed to double every two days isn’t it, that hasn’t happened.

We’re testing on average 600,000 people a day more than we were a week ago. So numbers are bound to go up even without Omicron.

Deaths are down and been declining since the end of Oct

Hospitalisations have plateaued and not risen above Sep and Oct highs as yet.

It’s 3 weeks since the first reported cases of Omicron in the U.K.

If they’re not clogging up the hospital corridors by Christmas Eve, I think it’s safe to assume they won’t be any other time in the future.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So far there’s a 28% increase in hospital admissions in London week on week, I think it’s more likely New Year’s Eve we need to be looking at.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’ll take longer than Christmas Eve for hospitals to fill there’s very little safe about that assumption. Individual days of admissions will creep up but it’s only when there’s sustained growth over weeks that’ll happen.

3 Cobra meetings this week, Rishi back with the chequebook and a weekend Cobra special. I’d expect more restrictions before hospitals collapse.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59696499

Obviously 86% is not as good as 97%, but its still damn good, and better than 0%.

That was never going to happen for very long.
At that rate it would soon run out of people to infect.

Looking at the governments covid site ;

* Deaths are still falling atm.

* Hospitalisations are starting to rise slightly.
-- They are still lower than Oct & Nov levels, and still nothing like last winter.

* Cases are rising (as also is testing).
-- The peak atm appears to have been Wednesday (incomplete data still atm).

Re: Coronavirus
 

Every two to three days, was the original estimate.

In today’s Times - going from around 500 cases per day to over 10,000 cases per seems a fairly rapid growth rate in one week…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...read-2w05d0rwl

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1639776359

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is a hell of a lot of people taking tests though so it stands to reason more cases will be found. But it is an horrendous infection rate

my butt will keep twitching till the middle of Jan when we will know the true danger of omicron

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's worth noting that testing is demand led. Based on symptoms, being a close contact or some other reason.

If 600,000 people just tested for entertainment value there's no reason to expect to get more positives than the ONS study. Conveniently, that's 1 in 60.

So it would impact the figures would be 10,000. Test positivity would drop.

As we reach testing capacity - people are unable to get tests online, in pharmacies, or book a PCR in a reasonable timeframe the usefulness of the data reduce. The ONS survey on the other hand will continue to reflect increases/decreases in prevalence due to it's model not relying on demand (or supply!).

Re: Coronavirus
 

Aren't people just stockpiling LFTs because
- the new guidance is that close contacts of cases do LFTs
- people are being suggested to do LFTs before going anywhere


As for PCR tests, well, with colds going around as well, and with omicron being milder and more common symptoms with colds, especially in vaccinated people, more people think they have covid (especially with more people getting it) so book a PCR test to be sure knowing LFTs may be incorrect.


It will eventually hit a ceiling as it runs out of people to infect whatever happens. Exponential growth will eventually stop.

Re: Coronavirus
 

People stockpiling LFTs doesn't affect the reported figure. Whether the tests are in a box or up someone's nose that's capacity gone. New people have difficulty accessing tests - this does result in under-reporting or delayed reporting of cases.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Demand was suddenly driven up by the new round of fear factor.
Plus the [percieved] requirement to do daily tests if you have "contact" with someone positive.
[its not actually a requirement at all, just a 'strong' recommendation].

Result: The public go into panic mode again, and all the available LFTs vanish almost in a flash.

So basically that covers any reason at all, even if that 'reason' is just "I felt like it".

Re: Coronavirus
 

Testing has gone up by 50%, Omicron cases by 2,000%.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How's the death rate with omicron doing percentage wise?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Death figures lag the infection figures by about 3 weeks. We won’t know how many people are dying with omicron until the end of the month.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That chart is an “estimate”. We’ll know for sure in a week or two

---------- Post added at 09:08 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

Come on Hugh you know the best way to mis-represent numbers is to use %

Testing has increased by 600,000 COVID cases by 40,000. Against last week.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Officials drawing up plans for two-week post-Christmas lockdown.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...s-say-12498746

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s just noise now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That’ll hurt for the Steve Bakers of this world if it happens. “Freedom” erosion on steroids. Or genetically engineered in a lab if preferable.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good luck with that.