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-   -   Corbyn's kerfuffle (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33702119)

Ramrod 29-09-2016 21:44
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35861109)
Beginning to think you're not a fan :D

The Torygraph seems obsessed with either Corbyn (or the communist BBC). Don't know why they're so paranoid if he has no chance of being elected
They are obsessed with him because of this kind of thing:
Jeremy Corbyn promises socialism, the poisonous dogma that has killed millions of innocents
Quote:
Socialism kills. It is not necessary to reach back into history to prove that assertion, though the millions killed by Stalin’s Soviet purges and economic failures should never be forgotten when any politician extols the virtues of socialism. Contemporary evidence abounds in Venezuela. Mr Corbyn has lavishly praised the socialist rulers who have murderously ruined its once-healthy economy, a disaster whose cost is borne by the weak and vulnerable the Left claims to champion.


---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

This is the kind of future that Corbyn and his fellow brain donors would ensure us:
Venezuela: how the socialist paradise turned into debt and hyperinflation hell
:(

Osem 29-09-2016 21:57
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35861124)
They are obsessed with him because of this kind of thing:
Jeremy Corbyn promises socialism, the poisonous dogma that has killed millions of innocents


---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

This is the kind of future that Corbyn and his fellow brain donors would ensure us:
Venezuela: how the socialist paradise turned into debt and hyperinflation hell
:(
Yes according to Comrade Corbyn, Venezuela was supposed to be Utopia wasn't it? A toilet roll free Utopia it seems... :rofl:

No doubt his ambition is to turn the UK into a similar paradise... :D

Well, to be fair, Brown had a bloody good try... :rofl:

Mr K 29-09-2016 22:51
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Seems paranoia is rapant ! It is true L is for Labour, L is for lice....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iK9IR9gmCHw

Mr Banana 30-09-2016 12:47
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35861109)
Beginning to think you're not a fan :D

The Torygraph seems obsessed with either Corbyn (or the communist BBC). Don't know why they're so paranoid if he has no chance of being elected
So you are happy with this sort of thing are you?

In so doing, he has made Labour a haven for people of odious dogma and bigotry. The Liverpool conference saw activists from his Momentum group openly selling pamphlets mocking disabled British soldiers and questioning the need to commemorate Jewish victims of the Holocaust.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...a-that-has-ki/

Osem 30-09-2016 13:12
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35861192)
So you are happy with this sort of thing are you?

In so doing, he has made Labour a haven for people of odious dogma and bigotry. The Liverpool conference saw activists from his Momentum group openly selling pamphlets mocking disabled British soldiers and questioning the need to commemorate Jewish victims of the Holocaust.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...a-that-has-ki/
Nah cuddly Corby's not like that at all, it's all right wing lies you know... ;)

heero_yuy 30-09-2016 13:31
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana;35861192
[I
In so doing, he has made Labour a haven for people of odious dogma and bigotry. The Liverpool conference saw activists from his Momentum group openly selling pamphlets mocking disabled British soldiers and questioning the need to commemorate Jewish victims of the Holocaust.[/I]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...a-that-has-ki/
They've taken on the old Tory mantle of the nasty party and embraced it wholeheartidly.

Venezuala is a shining example of what out-and-out socialism will do to a country's economy and population. You can't even get toilet paper there FGS.

rhyds 30-09-2016 13:41
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Corbynite claims (and a translation):

IT'S ALL A MAINSTREAM MEDIA SMEAR CAMPAIGN!!! (Newspapers covering what Jeremy Corbyn actually said)

IT'S ALL TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT!!!! (Jeremy Corbyn didn't actually mean what he actually said)

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35861198)
They've taken on the old Tory mantle of the nasty party and embraced it wholeheartidly.

Venezuala is a shining example of what out-and-out socialism will do to a country's economy and population. You can't even get toilet paper there FGS.
The toilet roll issue is a perfect example of how Bolivarian socialism doesn't work.

The government decided that the price of toilet rolls was too high, so they passed a law saying you can only sell Toilet Roll for (say) £1 for a 4-pack.

Problem is, it costs (say) £1.20 to actually make a 4-pack of toilet roll. Therefore nobody actually bothers making or selling bog roll...

Osem 30-09-2016 14:42
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35861198)
They've taken on the old Tory mantle of the nasty party and embraced it wholeheartidly.

Venezuala is a shining example of what out-and-out socialism will do to a country's economy and population. You can't even get toilet paper there FGS.
I bet some rose tinted folks don't have any problem getting hold of whatever they want and I'm sure we can guess who they are...

Damien 30-09-2016 14:56
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
With regards to the Holocaust thing if you watch the video it's clear she is being heckled in the meeting. Even among Momentum activists she was isolated. Not that the left doesn't have an issue with anti-semitism but we shouldn't go overboard in assuming she speaks for them all.

rhyds 30-09-2016 15:38
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35861216)
With regards to the Holocaust thing if you watch the video it's clear she is being heckled in the meeting. Even among Momentum activists she was isolated. Not that the left doesn't have an issue with anti-semitism but we shouldn't go overboard in assuming she speaks for them all.
Momentum is apparently looking to chuck her out, while Labour is looking at letting her back in...

Osem 08-10-2016 09:32
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is facing a row over his new shadow cabinet, after the chairman of the Parliamentary Labour Party said he was not informed about the reshuffle.
John Cryer said in a letter to MPs that the party leadership had not told him or sacked chief whip Rosie Winterton about the changes.
The PLP had held talks with party leaders over shadow cabinet elections.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37594424

Another row...

ntluser 08-10-2016 10:54
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Corbyn's reshuffle is just like moving the deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic as the party is still going to sink in elections because, unlike Thersa May, he is not taking steps to address voters in the middle ground.

We know he appeals to the usual 30% of the electorate populated by Labour voters but does he appeal to voters beyond that? I think not, which means his party will be in opposition once again as a party of protest not of power.

Arthurgray50@blu 08-10-2016 12:15
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
He has lost my vote. He has this idea that 'its his party' but he is a prat. I have already emailed my MP about my vote.
What is the point of voting, when Miss May will smash Labour to pieces.

I want a party that looks after the people who make this country tick - that is the worker.

I get really fed up with in fighting of Labour MP who have never worked hard in there lives

papa smurf 08-10-2016 12:20
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35862502)
He has lost my vote. He has this idea that 'its his party' but he is a prat. I have already emailed my MP about my vote.
What is the point of voting, when Miss May will smash Labour to pieces.

I want a party that looks after the people who make this country tick - that is the worker.

I get really fed up with in fighting of Labour MP who have never worked hard in there lives
i get the feeling he thinks its the memberships party and not the [mp's] who should serve the membership not ignore them .

Osem 08-10-2016 12:51
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
What Comrade Corbyn needs to realise is that the vast majority of people who keep him and the rest of his Labour MPs in office are NOT party members and never will be.

Osem 09-10-2016 16:04
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Wow, peace appears to have broken out within the Corbynista Party at long last:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37602161

Quote:
Two Labour MPs have resigned from the shadow whips' office, just days after party leader Jeremy Corbyn reshuffled his front bench.
His decision to replace long-standing chief whip Dame Rosie Winterton with the man who preceded her in the role, Nick Brown, was met with some surprise.
MPs Holly Lynch and Conor McGinn have resigned, it was confirmed on Sunday.
Ms Lynch tweeted it was "time to focus" on her marginal constituency. Mr Corbyn thanked them for their service.
His spokesman added that their positions would be filled "in due course".
'Pleasure to serve'
Mr McGinn had clashed with Mr Corbyn in August, when he accused him of threatening to use Mr McGinn's father to "bully me into submission" after he spoke out against the Labour leader*.
Only joking... :)

* That'll be the 'new politics' in action then...

Sirius 09-10-2016 20:46
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35862647)
Wow, peace appears to have broken out within the Corbynista Party at long last:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37602161



Only joking... :)

* That'll be the 'new politics' in action then...
I am so happy at the moment, my dream has come true and that dream is Labour making itself unelectable in my life time. :)

heero_yuy 10-10-2016 09:04
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
'Labour really is being run by the Islington set': Map shows how Corbyn reshuffle leaves the Opposition in the hands of a tiny north London elite

Three shadow cabinet members represent constituencies immediately neighbouring his Islington North seat
Sir Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry and Diane Abbott were all given key roles in the reshuffle
The quartet have been labeled an 'Islington mafia' as the map is widely shared online
Corbyn named 10 London MPs in his 33-strong shadow cabinet
Linky

All good working class constituencies I'm sure. :rolleyes:

Pierre 10-10-2016 17:23
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Anyone that has Diane Abbot on the front bench, clearly does not have any ambition to win the election.

Osem 10-10-2016 21:48
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35862754)
Linky

All good working class constituencies I'm sure. :rolleyes:
Does that really matter though? Remember, Miliband used to be able to keep his finger firmly on the pulse of the 'common man' during his walks on Hampstead Heath... :rofl:

Chrysalis 11-10-2016 04:46
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35862503)
i get the feeling he thinks its the memberships party and not the [mp's] who should serve the membership not ignore them .
and he is right.

They serve the members and the people who vote them in.

Its the MP's trying to cause trouble who have it wrong, they may not want him as leader but has been voted in now "twice", they have to just get their heads down and get on with it. Even if it means pain in the next election.

What they dont realise is that all the in fighting will be causing more damage than he potentially might.

heero_yuy 11-10-2016 08:46
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35862871)
Does that really matter though? Remember, Miliband used to be able to keep his finger firmly on the pulse of the 'common man' during his walks on Hampstead Heath... :rofl:
Let's hope for his missus that was all he was keeping his fingers on. :D

Osem 14-10-2016 13:47
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Oh well I suppose things had to start getting better for Corbyn at some point:

Quote:
Paul Mason has launched a scathing attack on The Sun newspaper for its discovery the die-hard Jeremy Corbyn loyalist secretly called for him to be ousted as leader.

Mason, former economics editor at Channel 4 and BBC’s Newsnight, reacted to the covert filming of his comments made in a bar in Liverpool by calling for a boycott of The Sun and branding its journalists “scabs”.

He also issued a personal insult at the paper’s political editor Tom Newton Dunn, saying it was “sad that a man with two last names and a hyphen has to employ people to spy on private conversations of other journalists”.

On Friday, The Sun revealed how Mason talked privately with a contact about Corbyn’s lack of appeal to working class voters, a quality frequently boasted about by the Labour leader’s supporters.

Mason also discussed plans to oust Corbyn from the top job and replace him with Clive Lewis, the ex-shadow defence secretary who was demoted after a clash with the leadership over nuclear weapons.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0e982146c5b86

There seems to be some doubt about whether Comrade Corbyn's Islington elite would recognise the working class if they walked up and smacked them in the face... :D

rhyds 14-10-2016 14:22
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Its actually quite worrying to watch Paul Mason's journey down the communist rabbit hole...

Osem 14-10-2016 20:51
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Labour remains committed to renewing the Trident nuclear weapons system, new shadow defence secretary Nia Griffith has said.
She told Forces TV she harboured "serious doubts" about it in the past but Labour policy was to back it and that was not likely to change.
Ms Griffith replaced Clive Lewis when Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn reshuffled his shadow cabinet earlier this month.
Mr Lewis's conference speech on Trident was changed at the last moment.
He was believed to have been prevented from committing categorically to Labour renewing the UK's nuclear weapons system by the leader's office.
Labour's official policy is to support renewing the Trident system, but leader Jeremy Corbyn - a longstanding CND campaigner - wants to change the party's position and launched a defence review to examine the issue.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37654111

It's reassuring to know that Labour policy is so clear on matters of national importance...

Ignitionnet 16-10-2016 00:34
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35862903)
and he is right.

They serve the members and the people who vote them in.

Its the MP's trying to cause trouble who have it wrong, they may not want him as leader but has been voted in now "twice", they have to just get their heads down and get on with it. Even if it means pain in the next election.

What they dont realise is that all the in fighting will be causing more damage than he potentially might.
Okay. What happens when the interests of constituents conflict with the demands from the leadership?

How exactly does it help the party to have MPs get themselves voted out by doing what an unprecedentedly unpopular leader tells them?

Looking at the Labour Party's polling and comparing it to Jeremy Corbyn's personal polling, a distant 3rd for Prime Minister behind 'don't know', I'm not convinced that anything could cause more damage than Corbyn.

---------- Post added 16-10-2016 at 00:34 ---------- Previous post was 15-10-2016 at 23:26 ----------

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ne...jews-5p9h033lr (£)

Quote:
MPs blame Corbyn for ‘vile’ abuse of Jews

Jeremy Corbyn has allowed “institutional anti-semitism” to thrive in the Labour movement and has made his party a “safe space for those with vile attitudes towards Jewish people”, a damning report by an all-party committee of MPs has concluded.

In a withering judgment on the Labour leader, MPs on the home affairs select committee concluded that Corbyn has shown a “lack of consistent leadership” in tackling anti-semitic abuse within the Labour ranks.

The report — signed off by the Labour MPs Chuka Umunna and David Winnick — questioned whether Corbyn “fully appreciates” the nature of anti-semitism and said the party was guilty of “incompetence” over its handling of high-profile allegations of anti-semitism.

It also delivered a damning verdict on a report by the Labour peer Baroness Chakrabarti, saying her conclusions exonerating Labour in her investigation of anti-semitism in the party were “clearly lacking” and saying her decision to take a peerage from Corbyn had “completely undermined” her report.

Osem 16-10-2016 09:52
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has not done enough to tackle anti-Semitism in the party, a committee of MPs has said.
The Home Affairs Select Committee report criticised him for a lack of "consistent leadership" on the issue, which it said benefited people with "vile attitudes" towards Jewish people.
Mr Corbyn accused the committee of a "disproportionate" emphasis on Labour.
The MPs also criticised Twitter, which they said hosted "vast swathes" of hate speech and abuse aimed at Jews.
Their Anti-Semitism in the UK report said the social network should do more to identify abusers. A spokesman for Twitter said it tackled hateful conduct "head-on".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37656197

Quote:
In June, a report by the former director of human rights body Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti - who has since become a Labour peer and shadow attorney general - found that the party was not overrun by anti-Semitism or other forms of racism, but there was evidence of "minority hateful or ignorant attitudes and behaviours".
However, the MPs said the Chakrabarti report had failed to deliver "a comprehensive set of recommendations, to provide a definition of anti-Semitism, or to suggest effective ways of dealing with anti-Semitism".
What's the Baroness got to say I wonder?

techguyone 16-10-2016 10:43
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
I had a little chuckle, thinking of awfully cheesy action hero's 'quick call the Baroness'

martyh 16-10-2016 10:45
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
What has Labour got against Jews ? is this a historical thing ?

rhyds 16-10-2016 11:14
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35863969)
What has Labour got against Jews ? is this a historical thing ?
It comes down to a mixture of high level and low level politics.

At the high levels (Corbyn, Momentum, Students Unions etc.) they take the "oppressed" Palestinians' side in the Israel/Palestine conflict as that's the "proper" anti capitalist and anti western thing to do, and therefore set themselves against the Israelis, who they see as an "oppressive" force. Therefore anything anti Israeli is fair game. The problem is its not a difficult thing to then slip towards full-blown antisemitism, and start talking about Zionist conspiracies and the like.

At the low levels (MPs, councillors, activists) Labour are popular in a lot of majority Muslim areas. Now as we all know muslims and jews aren't exactly on the best of terms, so again you see a lot of anti-semitic feeling coming through.

What's happened recently is that more and more of the top brass of the party has ended up being replaced with those high level anti-Israelis, who's quite disgusting views are finally being aired, and the Party simply won't do anything substantial to tackle it. Even its own antisemitism enquiry has, by their own actions, been reduced to a whitewash.

papa smurf 16-10-2016 11:21
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35863973)
It comes down to a mixture of high level and low level politics.

At the high levels (Corbyn, Momentum, Students Unions etc.) they take the "oppressed" Palestinians' side in the Israel/Palestine conflict as that's the "proper" anti capitalist and anti western thing to do, and therefore set themselves against the Israelis, who they see as an "oppressive" force. Therefore anything anti Israeli is fair game. The problem is its not a difficult thing to then slip towards full-blown antisemitism, and start talking about Zionist conspiracies and the like.

At the low levels (MPs, councillors, activists) Labour are popular in a lot of majority Muslim areas. Now as we all know muslims and jews aren't exactly on the best of terms, so again you see a lot of anti-semitic feeling coming through.

What's happened recently is that more and more of the top brass of the party has ended up being replaced with those high level anti-Israelis, who's quite disgusting views are finally being aired, and the Party simply won't do anything substantial to tackle it. Even its own antisemitism enquiry has, by their own actions, been reduced to a whitewash.

what are these views??? any links to them

martyh 16-10-2016 11:24
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35863973)
It comes down to a mixture of high level and low level politics.

At the high levels (Corbyn, Momentum, Students Unions etc.) they take the "oppressed" Palestinians' side in the Israel/Palestine conflict as that's the "proper" anti capitalist and anti western thing to do, and therefore set themselves against the Israelis, who they see as an "oppressive" force. Therefore anything anti Israeli is fair game. The problem is its not a difficult thing to then slip towards full-blown antisemitism, and start talking about Zionist conspiracies and the like.

At the low levels (MPs, councillors, activists) Labour are popular in a lot of majority Muslim areas. Now as we all know muslims and jews aren't exactly on the best of terms, so again you see a lot of anti-semitic feeling coming through.

What's happened recently is that more and more of the top brass of the party has ended up being replaced with those high level anti-Israelis, who's quite disgusting views are finally being aired, and the Party simply won't do anything substantial to tackle it. Even its own antisemitism enquiry has, by their own actions, been reduced to a whitewash.


Thank you for that :tu:

Here's me thinking the Labour party should be for the working man and less fortunate in society :shrug:

rhyds 16-10-2016 11:57
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35863975)
what are these views??? any links to them
Jackie Walker of Momentum:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37547873


Quote:
She was suspended by the Labour Party in May over comments made on social media in which she claimed that "many Jews (my ancestors too) were the chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade" but was re-admitted following an investigation.
She was suspended again from the party last week after a leaked video emerged.

It showed her saying at an anti-Semitism training event: "I came here... with an open mind and I was seeking information and I still haven't heard a definition of anti-Semitism that I can work with". She also questioned why Holocaust Memorial Day was not more wide ranging.

Vicky Kirby

http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/vicki-kirby-on-jews/

And I won't bother supplying a link, but rather simply say "Ken Livingstone"

These are Members (hopefully former members) of Labour or groups closely linked to Labour. is that good enough?

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35862503)
i get the feeling he thinks its the memberships party and not the [mp's] who should serve the membership not ignore them .
The problem with that is that the MPs derive their mandate from their constituencies, and from a voter base that's much wider than just party members.

While there are a lot of folk who will vote only by party and pretty much ignore the local candidate's pluses/minuses, others (like me) are sometimes prepared to look beyond a candidate's party banner and vote for them on their record in work locally.

Look at it like this: Say the Labour membership vote to change the party policy to make petrol driven cars illegal in 10 years. Should the Labour MPs in Ellesmere Port (Vauxhall Factory), Halewood (Jaguar Land Rover factory), Sunderland (Nissan), Derby (Toyota) simply roll over and agree to that?

papa smurf 16-10-2016 12:30
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
She was suspended by the Labour Party in May over comments made on social media in which she claimed that "many Jews (my ancestors too) were the chief financiers of the sugar and slave trade" but was re-admitted following an investigation.
She was suspended again from the party last week after a leaked video emerged.

It showed her saying at an anti-Semitism training event: "I came here... with an open mind and I was seeking information and I still haven't heard a definition of anti-Semitism that I can work with". She also questioned why Holocaust Memorial Day was not more wide ranging.


so is that statement an historic untruth ? and "jews" never financed those trades ?

rhyds 16-10-2016 13:43
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
The issue isn't did Jews finance the sugar/slave trade or not, but rather the fact that she's blaming the Jews for slavery by referring to them as the "chief financiers of slavery", echoing the tropes that Jews are all greedy moneygrabbing capitalists.

Her worst remark however is the one regarding not finding a definition of anti-antisemitism she's happy with. That's a bit like the BNP saying they can't find a definition of racism they're happy with...

Osem 16-10-2016 14:01
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
It seems the Baroness isn't above emulating her colleague Diane Abbot in opposing divisive selective/private education for the many whilst not being similarly concerned about its adverse effects on her own child....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-comprehensive

Quote:
It isn’t always easy to be a politician or a parent. Shami Chakrabarti has found, sometimes, it’s very difficult to be both.

“I have real concerns about grammar schools,” the new shadow attorney general said on ITV’s Peston on Sunday when asked about Labour’s opposition to selective education – before admitting she in fact sends her own son to a private school. That’s the prestigious Dulwich College at a cost of £18,000 a year.

“I live in a nice big house and eat nice food and my neighbours are homeless and go to food banks,” Chakrabarti acknowledged when Robert Peston suggested she could be called a hypocrite.
If she's so exercised by these issues she could always just send her child to the local comprehensive and give some more money to the local needy she clearly feels so bad about. It wouldn't be the end to poverty I agree but it'd clearly help assuage her guilt...

rhyds 16-10-2016 14:18
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
This is what has really made me lose respect for Shami Chakrabarti.

While I didn't always respect her opinions, her work for Liberty as an independent voice against government was important, and one that kept her as a political outsider.

However, to suddenly , after having used that "outsider" status to lend legitimacy to a Labour antisemitism enquiry to:

A: Join the Labour Party

B: Get a peerage in double quick time

and

C: Get a shadow cabinet post

Strikes me as the finest form of selling out, and that's before we get to the rank hypocrisy of saying that selective education is wrong, but still sending her child to a selective (and private at that!) school.

papa smurf 16-10-2016 14:21
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35863998)
This is what has really made me lose respect for Shami Chakrabarti.

While I didn't always respect her opinions, her work for Liberty as an independent voice against government was important, and one that kept her as a political outsider.

However, to suddenly , after having used that "outsider" status to lend legitimacy to a Labour antisemitism enquiry to:

A: Join the Labour Party

B: Get a peerage in double quick time

and

C: Get a shadow cabinet post

Strikes me as the finest form of selling out, and that's before we get to the rank hypocrisy of saying that selective education is wrong, but still sending her child to a selective (and private at that!) school.
she's made the transition from one of the people to one of them at the top ;)

Osem 16-10-2016 14:35
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35863999)
she's made the transition from one of the people to one of them at the top ;)
Sounds like John Prescott... :D

He spent his political life fighting 'privilege' until he wanted some...

TheDaddy 16-10-2016 23:52
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35863969)
What has Labour got against Jews ? is this a historical thing ?
Certainly isn't, when Oswald moseley and his black shirted chums tried to kick the Jews and Irish out of the East end the Labour party stood up to them

Damien 17-10-2016 11:00
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35864158)
Certainly isn't, when Oswald moseley and his black shirted chums tried to kick the Jews and Irish out of the East end the Labour party stood up to them
IIRC It's around the time Israel starting becoming close to America and spurned Soviet advances. The Communist Party and her fellow travelers didn't much like that. Obviously some of those joined the Labour party.

Plus it isn't just them. The far-right also contains a lot of antisemitism. I guess the more extreme you get, the more you believe conspiracy theories as an explanation for why the world isn't how you want it. And the more you believe in conspiracy theories the more likely you are to move into antisemitic tropes about global world orders and such like.

denphone 17-10-2016 11:05
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35863976)
Thank you for that :tu:

Here's me thinking the Labour party should be for the working man and less fortunate in society :shrug:
None of them are currently as in general most politicians from all parties come on TV and espouse about many things but in reality its nothing more then paying insincere lip service to the many many important issues that affect this country.

rhyds 17-10-2016 11:11
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
The problem is the less fortunate and the "working man" don't vote as often as the middle classes and pensioners.

denphone 17-10-2016 11:27
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35864206)
The problem is the less fortunate and the "working man" don't vote as often as the middle classes and pensioners.
Indeed there are others as you say who are at the top of their bribing list.;)

TheDaddy 17-10-2016 15:43
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35864203)
IIRC It's around the time Israel starting becoming close to America and spurned Soviet advances. The Communist Party and her fellow travelers didn't much like that. Obviously some of those joined the Labour party.

Plus it isn't just them. The far-right also contains a lot of antisemitism. I guess the more extreme you get, the more you believe conspiracy theories as an explanation for why the world isn't how you want it. And the more you believe in conspiracy theories the more likely you are to move into antisemitic tropes about global world orders and such like.
There was no such place as Israel back then, it was prior to the Jewish uprising to in the British mandate, I actually think it was the Arabs revolting there at the time

Damien 17-10-2016 15:45
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35864249)
There was no such place as Israel back then, it was prior to the Jewish uprising to in the British mandate, I actually think it was the Arabs revolting there at the time
I am talking about late 1950s

TheDaddy 17-10-2016 16:14
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35864250)
I am talking about late 1950s

Apologies. The way you wrote it it's easy to see why there was confusion though

Ignitionnet 19-10-2016 11:57
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
I don't think this should be much of a surprise to anyone. Incoming accusations of conspiracies.

Quote:
Eagle received hundreds of abusive, homophobic messages from Labour members

Party inquiry also finds that brick thrown through office window was probably related to leadership challenge to Corbyn

Chrysalis 19-10-2016 12:47
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35863925)
Okay. What happens when the interests of constituents conflict with the demands from the leadership?

How exactly does it help the party to have MPs get themselves voted out by doing what an unprecedentedly unpopular leader tells them?

Looking at the Labour Party's polling and comparing it to Jeremy Corbyn's personal polling, a distant 3rd for Prime Minister behind 'don't know', I'm not convinced that anything could cause more damage than Corbyn.

---------- Post added 16-10-2016 at 00:34 ---------- Previous post was 15-10-2016 at 23:26 ----------

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ne...jews-5p9h033lr (£)
No idea what will happen come election time, but right now I consider labour's biggest problem is the in fighting, it needs to stop.

This started by the MP's originally nominating corbyn as a stunt to say oh look we democratic and we proving it, but of course expecting him to not win, when democracy actually played its part and he won they now trying to back peddle.

What are they trying to achieve? a party split?

What has happened is that labour has been drifting away from its core values towards the middle politically, with the aim of winning elections this way, but now the core voters have decided they have had enough of that with this the result. I can understand this, as a proper labour party e.g. would never have backed the welfare policies that they did during the coalition. Plus when in power they introduced ESA again something old labour wouldnt have done. They never reintroduced mass council house building project's and they also never blocked thatcher's right to buy, all of which conflict with core labour values.

heero_yuy 25-10-2016 09:04
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
LABOUR has suffered one final humiliation from the 2015 General Election defeat after it was fined £20,000 for failing to declare spending on the ‘EdStone’.

It was the largest ever imposed by the Electoral Commission after it found the party was missing the right receipts for £123,748 of campaign spending.
Labour's disastrous 'EdStone' has caused the party one final humiliation

The eight-foot stone plinth was known as Ed Miliband’s electoral tombstone when it was unveiled to widespread mockery last year.

The tablet, inscribed with meaningless pledges by the Labour leader, was supposed to be placed in the Downing Street rose garden if he had won the election.

But after a calamitous defeat to David Cameron’s Tories it was hidden in a warehouse and allegedly smashed to bits, after journalists tried to track it down.
Linky

That's really rubbing their noses in it. :rofl:

Osem 25-10-2016 09:55
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
:rofl:

I must admit I did have a chuckle when I saw a clip of Ed waxing lyrical about Labour's new 'commandments' on TV earlier.

Whatever happened to that grotesque monument to Labour's failure?

Osem 11-12-2016 15:58
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Given all the soul-searching and heartache expressed as a result of Jo Cox's murder by a sad right wing nutter, I wonder what Corbyn and his cronies will have to say about this sort of thing:

Quote:
Bobby Gillespie is better known as the front man of nineties rockers Primal Scream. The band are big fans of Jeremy Corbyn, Gillespie says Jezza is “a good man” and the Labour leader even thanked him for his support with a tweet during his leadership campaign. Unfortunately Gillespie got a bit excited at a gig last night and according to the Bristol Post told the crowd:

“I’m no comedian but should I tell a joke? What do you call a Conservative MP that’s been stabbed to death? A beautiful f**king thing.”
I don't suppose McDonnell will be saying much having publicly stated he'd like to have assassinated Margaret Thatcher.

It seems lefty hatred knows no bounds but it's OK because they feel the cause is just... :rolleyes:

I wonder if the police will be looking into this.

Osem 14-12-2016 14:03
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
ooopppsss forgot the link in the above post:

http://order-order.com/2016/12/08/co...stabbed-death/

Judging by the comments section the police are not interested in what was said. :rolleyes:

Osem 10-01-2017 09:36
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn says he would like to see a maximum cap on the amount people can earn.
The Labour leader said he thought introducing the limit would be "the fairer thing to do".
Mr Corbyn said he was "not wedded to a figure" but told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Let's look at it."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38568116

Yeah like that's going to work well... I dare say he'll also be taking away their passports to stop them taking their business and wealth elsewhere too. :rolleyes:

Well we had blue sky thinking under Blair's New Labour and now we have cloud cuckoo land thinking under Corbyn's Out of touch Labour. Frankly I'd be happy for some real world thinking from what's supposed to be Her Majesty's official opposition but Corbyn is spending far more time indulging his outdated political ego than being an effective leader of a credible party.

Mr K 10-01-2017 09:43
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35879895)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38568116

Yeah like that's going to work well... I dare say he'll also be taking away their passports to stop them taking their business and wealth elsewhere too. :rolleyes:

Well we had blue sky thinking under Blair's New Labour and now we have cloud cuckoo land thinking under Corbyn's Out of touch Labour.
As far as wages are concerned he's very much in touch. The gap between the highest and lowest wage continues to get greater. While Chief Execs wages have continued to rocket in recent years, others have flat lined. Not sure about a wages cap, but something needs to be done about the increasing gap between rich and poor and our increasingly divided society. Oh hang on, we've got a Tory government, so probably objective achieved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37341095
Quote:
UK one of the most unequal countries, says Oxfam. The richest 1% of the UK population owns more than 20 times the wealth of the poorest fifth, according to Oxfam.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-21-cent.html
Quote:
Gap between Britain's rich and poor soars to almost FIVE TRILLION POUNDS as wealthiest see assets soar by 21 per cent

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4VLnkuLyH
Even the Daily Fail agrees.

Ramrod 10-01-2017 10:13
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
How would capping maximum earnings help make anything better? :confused:

Osem 10-01-2017 10:16
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35879897)
How would capping maximum earnings help make anything better? :confused:
It's laughable really. The sort of stuff students think's a good idea when they've had a few pints or puffs... :D

Mr K 10-01-2017 10:23
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35879897)
How would capping maximum earnings help make anything better? :confused:
tbf to the Govt. they did do something.

Cut the top rate of tax for high earners to make the gap between rich and poor even greater :rolleyes:

tweetiepooh 10-01-2017 10:24
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
More effort needed to ensure that those who are super rich make fairer contributions (tax) without being so draconian they all leave. Labour seems to like huge rates on top earners but it only hits the more moderate high earners who can't afford elaborate but legal schemes to miss paying. Or to tax multiple times.

Is the difference between the richest increasing purely because the rich are richer or because there are new poorer arriving?

Osem 10-01-2017 10:30
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Some people clearly need reminding what happened the last time Labour imposed a super tax.

Quote:
Britain's tax regime in the 1970s was one of the most punitive in the world and triggered an exodus of entrepreneurs and highly-paid stars such as David Bowie, who went to live in Switzerland, and the Rolling Stones, who left to record in the South of France.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...king-pips.html

A ceiling on earnings would have exactly the same effect on these same people. A moral victory far outweighed by an economic disaster the worst affected by which would be the ordinary man in the street not the likes of Corbyn's Islington elite.

heero_yuy 10-01-2017 10:36
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35879897)
How would capping maximum earnings help make anything better? :confused:
Doesn't really and drives away entrepeners but it gives the socialists a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Mr K 10-01-2017 10:39
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
It was hardly a super tax that was cut for the rich at a time when the NHS is in crisis and the country still massively in debt.

'Some people' might be finding it hard to admit that Corbyn might be right to campaign on this issue.

Ramrod 10-01-2017 11:05
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879899)

Cut the top rate of tax for high earners to make the gap between rich and poor even greater :rolleyes:
That's not answering my question. I'm genuinely curious to understand how capping earnings would help. :confused:

---------- Post added at 11:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879904)
It was hardly a super tax
98% sounds like a "super tax" to me

Mr K 10-01-2017 11:13
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35879909)
That's not answering my question. I'm genuinely curious to understand how capping earnings would help. :confused:

---------- Post added at 11:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

98% sounds like a "super tax" to me
we're not alking about the 1970's.... The tax rate was recently cut from 50 to 45p for high earners - doubt it made diddly squat difference to them, maybe an extra few cases of champagne this xmas, or a pony for Penelope...
It would have have meant more to those lower down the can scale, or even perish the thought, invested in the riff raff's NHS....

Ramrod 10-01-2017 12:09
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879912)
we're not alking about the 1970's....
I thought you were. No worries.
Anyhoo, how does Corbyns plan of capping earnings help anything?

Mr K 10-01-2017 12:34
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35879920)
I thought you were. No worries.
Anyhoo, how does Corbyns plan of capping earnings help anything?
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done. The gaps between those at the top and bottom in wages and wealth are becoming larger and more obscene year by year. We clearly aren't 'all in it together'.

rhyds 10-01-2017 12:42
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Its one of those "politics of envy" things that plays out fantastically well in the North Islington maxist commune, but makes very little economic or wider political sense.

First off, on the economics side, those super high earners (big players in the City, big players for City) can either structure their finances to avoid such a punitive tax rate or simply move away to another country (Europe, the US or even Ireland) to avoid it. This will hit our economy at a time it needs as much stimulus as possible.

As for the politics, the one question every Labour Cabinet Member, MP or spokesdroid will be asked from now until Brexit is "what level is the earnings cap going to be set at?" Its a classic Corbyn "back of a fag packet" policy that's as well thought through as his "women only carriages" one...

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879923)
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done. The gaps between those at the top and bottom in wages and wealth are becoming larger and more obscene year by year. We clearly aren't 'all in it together'.
However a wage cap won't really do much to makes things better for Mr J. Bloggs on the Clapham Omnibus. Its like complaining your neighbour is taller than you, and that you should be allowed to trim 6" off his legs to make up for it...

Ramrod 10-01-2017 13:16
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879923)
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done.
Why? :confused:

heero_yuy 10-01-2017 13:23
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879912)
we're not alking about the 1970's.... The tax rate was recently cut from 50 to 45p for high earners - doubt it made diddly squat difference to them, maybe an extra few cases of champagne this xmas, or a pony for Penelope...
It would have have meant more to those lower down the can scale, or even perish the thought, invested in the riff raff's NHS....
Broadly revenue neutral:

Quote:
Head of the IFS, Paul Johnson, told the BBC Daily Politics earlier this week that

“The best estimate is that it looks like by cutting the top rate from 50p to 45p, it might have cost you a very small amount, probably… it’s not bringing in lots of additional revenue but it’s probably not costing much either.”
Link

There was a temporary dividend to the treasury of £8bn as higher rate earners moved their income declaration into the lower rate year.

Putting it back up wouldn't make loads of money available either as with many taxes there is an optimum rate that maximises revenue. Too high a rate is a self inflicted wound to a countries finances, just ask the French who are now desperate to bring down their swinging top rates as all their high earners come over to London.

Osem 10-01-2017 13:49
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Some people clearly never learn from past mistakes and I'm not just referring to the Islington elite. They don't even learn from the more recent mistakes made in France. It's quite bizarre but that's political dogma for you.

heero_yuy 10-01-2017 14:05
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
The French example is a lesson in that high taxes on the rich do not raise the revenue expected:

Quote:
Finance ministry studies showed that despite all the publicity, the sums obtained from the supertax were meagre, standing at €260m in 2013 and €160m in 2014, and affecting 1,000 staff in 470 companies. Over the same period, the budget deficit soared to €84.7bn.

The decision to drop the tax is a personal blow for Hollande and only one of a number of government U-turns since he was elected, fuelling criticism that he is indecisive and lacking presidential authority.
Linky

They have now, very quietly, reduced this rate down to 50%.

Osem 10-01-2017 14:28
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35879938)
The French example is a lesson in that high taxes on the rich do not raise the revenue expected:



Linky

They have now, very quietly, reduced this rate down to 50%.
Yeah but it was a great idea, truly visionary and not at all a silly populist measure aimed at getting the votes of those who can't see beyond the ends of their noses... :rofl:

Mr Banana 10-01-2017 15:35
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879923)
Did say I 'wasn't sure' about the wage cap idea, but something needs to be done. The gaps between those at the top and bottom in wages and wealth are becoming larger and more obscene year by year. We clearly aren't 'all in it together'.
Why does something need to be done, as long as the super earners pay their share of tax it shouldn't matter to anyone what others earn.

Taf 10-01-2017 16:31
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Maybe they should start with wage levels paid to civil servants and local government employees? And also include members of parliament and their aides? And make pensions for those posts only payable from the State Pension Age, the same as the rest of us?

TheDaddy 10-01-2017 17:49
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35879899)
tbf to the Govt. they did do something.

Cut the top rate of tax for high earners to make the gap between rich and poor even greater :rolleyes:
And they scrapped plans for workers to be on boards, just to make sure the gap didn't get any smaller. They could look into remuneration committees to and ask if it's appropriate for people to sit on each others and be open to claims that it's all a back scratching exercise.

Sadly though rather than think of things to even things up it seems some people would rather poo poo it completely and hark back to days before most of us were born, nothing has to be extreme and it's probably doomed if it is.

martyh 10-01-2017 18:03
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35879955)
Why does something need to be done, as long as the super earners pay their share of tax it shouldn't matter to anyone what others earn.
Something needs to be done but definitely not capping anyones wages ,maybe we could try actually paying a real living wage ,the type of wage so people can buy a house ,have one holiday a year own a car and save a bit for a rainy day without being in constant debt .Instead of bringing wages down from the top why not bring them up from the bottom .I don't think many people expect to be paid fortunes for doing menial jobs but they should be able to pay the rent without needing state benefits

Damien 10-01-2017 18:37
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35879963)
Maybe they should start with wage levels paid to civil servants and local government employees? And also include members of parliament and their aides? And make pensions for those posts only payable from the State Pension Age, the same as the rest of us?
The PM or even the Head of the Civil Service wouldn't earn enough to get caught in this pay cap. It's 20x the lowest paid staff. So with minimum wage the theoretical minimum at which the cap would be applied is roughly £262,480 (unless I've done the maths wrong - £6.31 for minimum wage I think).

It might impact the Chief Executives of some Government organisations though.

Corbyn is all over the place anyway. I suspect he meant a real pay cap and added this ratio thing at the last moment after his aides saw the reaction. It's an utter mess at the moment and I fail to see what Corbyn's goal actually is by continuing as leader other than to allow a far-left take-over of the party or actual delusion that it's going well so far.

heero_yuy 10-01-2017 18:40
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35879999)
Corbyn is all over the place anyway. I suspect he meant a real pay cap and added this ratio thing at the last moment after his aides saw the reaction. It's an utter mess at the moment and I fail to see what Corbyn's goal actually is by continuing as leader other than to allow a far-left take-over of the party or actual delusion that it's going well so far.
Total disarray. It's what you get when you have frustrated student in charge of a political party. :rolleyes:

Osem 10-01-2017 19:38
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Yet another of Corbyn's ideas has gone down well:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7519681.html

Quote:
Academic Richard Murphy, who advised Mr Corbyn during his leadership bid, said the proposal was "incoherent".

He said: "It doesn't make any economic sense at all. You cannot impose such a cap.

"Jeremy needs to sit down and get some proper advice. Whoever is advising him now is not giving the right advice or Jeremy isn't simply asking them before making these comments."
Well why would someone who's living in a world of his own listen to common sense?

Corbyn is totally out of his depth and being exploited by a load of hard left lunatics who're in denial I reckon.

Hugh 10-01-2017 19:43
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35879963)
Maybe they should start with wage levels paid to civil servants and local government employees? And also include members of parliament and their aides? And make pensions for those posts only payable from the State Pension Age, the same as the rest of us?
Considering the UK median salary in 2015 was £27,600, and the average Civil Service salary was £25,000 (DWP £22,120), why would you do that?

https://www.incometaxcalculator.org....-salary-uk.php

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...rvice-salaries

Now, if you had said top Civil Servants (of which there aren't that many...), I would have probably agreed with you...

Pierre 10-01-2017 22:08
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
How transform Labour from mildly unelectable, to totally unelectable in one easy step.

Love to know what mastermind thought that policy up.

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35880005)

Now, if you had said top Civil Servants (of which there aren't that many...), I would have probably agreed with you...
Or council Chief Execs.

heero_yuy 11-01-2017 08:43
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Well that was a day-long train wreck. Perhaps this shows why comrade Corbyn doesn't "do" interviews. :D

Osem 11-01-2017 10:00
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Yes, that might explain it. He's ok when he's speaking to a group of people who like what he has to say but otherwise he's useless. He's a relic of the 1970's and was past his 'best before' date a long time ago.

There remains the question about what all those supposedly credible Labour big hitters are doing about the damage Corbyn is doing to their party. Where are the leaders amongst them? If they can't get rid of him then surely they must either resign themselves to being out of power for the foreseeable future or create a new party and leave Corbyn, his deluded groupies and the lefty lunatics to carry on telling themselves what they want to hear as they get voted into oblivion.

Chris 11-01-2017 11:36
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
There are definitely some credible alternatives to Corbyn, the problem is all of them know damn well how another leadership election would go down and none of them want a failed leadership challenge on their CV.

Current party rules put the power squarely in the hands of a very broad membership base that has been infiltrated with a large number of people who see Labour as a handy vehicle for pushing the ideas of the hard left. There aren't enough of them to keep Corbyn in power forever, but there are enough of them to keep him in power until almost everyone else in the party unites behind an alternative. Until that day comes, none of Labour's "big hitters" are going to make a move.

That day, I'd say, will come either in early 2019 or late in 2020. I don't believe there is anything Corbyn can do to endear himself to the British electorate and the 2020 election is the Tories to lose as things stand. If they make a complete disaster of Brexit (by which I mean, a genuine, actual disaster, not merely a continuing stream of BBC/Guardian opinion pieces predicting disaster is just around the corner), then Corbyn could do reasonably well in the polls going into the election, and avoid the alternative, which is that in early 2019 his party finally reads the writing on the wall and removes him in an attempt to avoid a wipeout.

Damien 11-01-2017 12:29
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
The problem is that Labour is the alternative to the Tories in our system. It may be unimaginable that he wins but the last year as seen many things we assumed were not possible happen.

The people behind the hard left aren't completely stupid. They know what they're doing. They know Corbyn will probably lose the election but they aren't thinking of 2020 but 2025 or 2030. The idea is to take over the Labour party until it's institutions, rules and membership until they've got a hold on it for good then they just have to wait for government. This was the strategy of the old communists towards the party, to support Labour as a noose supports a hanged man, and it's their strategy now too.

It might not work but that is their idea.

Pierre 11-01-2017 12:31
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35880088)
The people behind the hard left aren't completely stupid. They know what they're doing. .
That's where your argument ends.

Osem 11-01-2017 14:45
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35880088)
The problem is that Labour is the alternative to the Tories in our system. It may be unimaginable that he wins but the last year as seen many things we assumed were not possible happen.

The people behind the hard left aren't completely stupid. They know what they're doing. They know Corbyn will probably lose the election but they aren't thinking of 2020 but 2025 or 2030. The idea is to take over the Labour party until it's institutions, rules and membership until they've got a hold on it for good then they just have to wait for government. This was the strategy of the old communists towards the party, to support Labour as a noose supports a hanged man, and it's their strategy now too.

It might not work but that is their idea.
Yes, that be what they think but if it is it just goes to show how deluded they are. The more they insist on propping up an ineffectual Corbyn, the more the ordinary people Labour's supposed to be representing in the meantime will be able to see what they're really about and feel utterly neglected by the party.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35880078)
There are definitely some credible alternatives to Corbyn, the problem is all of them know damn well how another leadership election would go down and none of them want a failed leadership challenge on their CV.

Current party rules put the power squarely in the hands of a very broad membership base that has been infiltrated with a large number of people who see Labour as a handy vehicle for pushing the ideas of the hard left. There aren't enough of them to keep Corbyn in power forever, but there are enough of them to keep him in power until almost everyone else in the party unites behind an alternative. Until that day comes, none of Labour's "big hitters" are going to make a move.

That day, I'd say, will come either in early 2019 or late in 2020. I don't believe there is anything Corbyn can do to endear himself to the British electorate and the 2020 election is the Tories to lose as things stand. If they make a complete disaster of Brexit (by which I mean, a genuine, actual disaster, not merely a continuing stream of BBC/Guardian opinion pieces predicting disaster is just around the corner), then Corbyn could do reasonably well in the polls going into the election, and avoid the alternative, which is that in early 2019 his party finally reads the writing on the wall and removes him in an attempt to avoid a wipeout.
Interesting.

They've already had one wipeout in Scotland and the legacy of that is going to reduce the probabilty of a Labour majority hugely I'd have thought regardless of who's running the show at the time.

Osem 13-01-2017 09:57
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Well we know what one of Labour's 'big hitters' is doing about Corbyn's reform of the Labour Party.

Quote:
Tristram Hunt to quit as Labour MP to be V&A Museum's director, triggering by-election in Stoke-on-Trent Central
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38608825

Presumably he's tired of flogging a dead horse and is swapping dealing with one old relic to dealing with lots of them.

Damien 13-01-2017 10:23
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
It really is beyond a joke at this point.

It's funny and amusing at first but the Leader of the Opposition is a serious job and it's shameful the degree to which he is shirking that responsibility.

Chris 13-01-2017 10:39
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
One Labour MP told the Politics Home website: “Tristram has been talking about this for a while, so it's no surprise that he's decided to go.

“There are scores of us who would quit if we had another job to go to because we know that the party has no chance at the next election.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7525191.html

It's nice to know that sense of public service and honouring a commitment to serve your constituents is flourishing within the Labour Party.

heero_yuy 13-01-2017 10:59
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/01/12.jpg

Osem 13-01-2017 12:19
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35880435)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7525191.html

It's nice to know that sense of public service and honouring a commitment to serve your constituents is flourishing within the Labour Party.
Such faith in his leadership must be heartwarming for Corbyn.

Still at least Hunt was so respected by his constituents that a massive 19% actually voted for him.

rhyds 13-01-2017 12:50
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Tristram Hunt was the poster child for central office parachuting a candidate in to a party safe seat. UKIP came second to him last time, but he still had a majority of 5,000.

It'll be interesting to see how Labour play it. Do they get someone local to try and steal votes back from UKIP? Or do they parachute someone else from central office to stand on Corbyn's record as leader?

Hugh 13-01-2017 16:20
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35880435)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7525191.html

It's nice to know that sense of public service and honouring a commitment to serve your constituents is flourishing within the Labour Party.
Mmmmm.

I think if any of us were really unhappy with the boss of the company we worked for, and knew there wasn't much chance of him being replaced for 3 or 4 years, and within that time we would be likely out of a job (in this case, during the next election), we would be actively "seeking further opportunities elsewhere", rather than waiting for the hammer to fall...

heero_yuy 15-01-2017 10:51
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Unite union gave Mr Corbyn a £25,000 interest-free loan in July and a further £50,000 in August to fund last summer’s leadership campaign.

But before the first instalment was due, the debt was written off, according to an entry in the register of MPs’ interest.

Unite also gave the Labour leader free office space worth £21,856 for his campaign, bringing the total to almost £100,000 worth of financial backing.

In return Corbyn has helped bring back the left wing union back to centre stage in the Labour fold.
Source

Unite have certainly bought their man.

Osem 15-01-2017 11:13
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35880695)
Source

Unite have certainly bought their man.
Wasted their money I reckon. The only thing Corbyn will deliver them is ineffectual opposition.

Damien 15-01-2017 12:23
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35880482)
Mmmmm.

I think if any of us were really unhappy with the boss of the company we worked for, and knew there wasn't much chance of him being replaced for 3 or 4 years, and within that time we would be likely out of a job (in this case, during the next election), we would be actively "seeking further opportunities elsewhere", rather than waiting for the hammer to fall...
Also Hunt has been one of the targets for Momentum. Not only does he stand to lose his seat anyway but he has to deal with the Corbyn lot giving him abuse for the next 3 years.

Osem 15-01-2017 12:54
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35880708)
Also Hunt has been one of the targets for Momentum. Not only does he stand to lose his seat anyway but he has to deal with the Corbyn lot giving him abuse for the next 3 years.
Yes I heard one of them on LBC on Friday ranting on about purging the party of people like Hunt using the sort of offensive language I recall from my higher education days in a well known hotbed of student lefty lunacy, intimidation and nastiness. These people really are locked in the past so it's no surprise they like Corbyn.

Mr K 15-01-2017 12:58
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35880695)
Source

Unite have certainly bought their man.
Doesn't really compare to the millions the Tories get in funding from their friends in the city...

heero_yuy 15-01-2017 13:10
Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35880714)
Doesn't really compare to the millions the Tories get in funding from their friends in the city...
Except that is to fund the entire party across the country. Compare to £100,000 just for Corbyn.


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