Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Or, they're heading to where they are being made to feel welcome, and who wouldn't. It's not exactly rocket science is it ?

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------


OK, flip the point

Where would YOU go?

And what is your attitude, what are these traditional values onto which you cling to so much?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Flip the point, ok. If I were a refugee I'd head for the nearest safe place I could find. Why would I further risk my family to danger travelling further than necessary.

My attitude is firm but fair. Trad British values, remember those? before we became all overly PC and waiting to sue/be offended to order.

---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 ----------

As far as being made welcome. How welcome would you feel when you get things like this to look forward to. (Yes I know its from The Mail)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/09/4.jpg

I still reckon it'll be a very different picture in six months or less when reality bites. Let's hope there's better joined up thinking for next years rush, I'd expect this years to slow down shortly due to winter approaching. Some of those european winters can be be bitter.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

There's none so blind as those who refuse to see. The proof is there before us, unfolding on a massive scale yet for some it's as if nothing's been learned. It's truly bizarre.

They want to go to Germany because they're more welcome there blah, blah, blah,... Oh really? There was I thinking this was all about desperate refugees seeking refuge from bombs... :confused: Well what happens when the mood in Germany changes to the masses they've encouraged to come? It's already happening and this is only the beginning FGS. What happens when the migrants decide Germany isn't quite so friendly or there are better prospects elsewhere?

It's clear to me that some people can't see beyond the ends of their noses. Despite all the problems we've seen develop across Europe as a result of the failure of immigration policies and now a mass surge of refugees and economic migrants, some people would open the doors even wider. Frankly it would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic and dangerous. These people need to understand that what they are asking for is irreversible. The tap can't just be turned off and as I've stated many times before, nobody seriously believes that any assessment and removals policy is going to be effective so once these people, very largely young single men, get to the EU, the cast majority of them will remain here. Ask yourselves how well they're going to adapt, integrate, fit in... We have our very own brand of home grown radicals who've been lucky enough to have been born here to immigrant parents and are hell bent on causing us mayhem or heading off to join the most extreme group of terrorists you could imagine. All that happened to people who were born here in freedom and relative wealth, how much easier for it to happen to people who are going to have extreme difficulties fitting in and are I feel very likely to feel badly let down when they discover Merkel's streets aren't paved with gold and there's growing hostility towards them as their numbers rise and the effects are felt.

This is inevitable I'm afraid, it's not palatable and we all wish it wasn't true but it is. No amount of EU claptrap can supress what ordinary people feel about this situation and it's only a matter of time before the serious trouble starts, there's more tension between various migrants groups and host communities and indeed between nations.

I really didn't think I'd make my mind up about the EU referendum until the last minute, hoping to see some evidence of unity and common sense over coming months. Fat chance! What's been allowed to happen has made my mind up. I will be voting out, not because I feel that will be a panacea for all our ills (far from it - there will be massive challenges) but because the EU has once again proved itself to be fatally flawed and is IMHO going to fall apart all on its own at some point. When it does that I'd rather be outside with the benefit of the time we've had in which to have forged new links elsewhere.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Here they come:

Paywall link

We're drowning in them. :(

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

OK, now we're getting to the meat of things.....

How is it more dangerous to travel to Germany from somewhere such as Greece?

The very fact is that Greece has over 1m refugees, Turkey has approx 2m Saudi Arabia has IIRC 2.5m there are something like (again IIRC) 6m internally displaced. People are whinging about a few thousand ???

Lets look realistically at the numbers 160,000 to be spread across the EU it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things and it's a situation we were implicit in creating in certain countries and therefore we have an important part to play.

It's quite simply not acceptable for us to try and impose western democracy (see Regime Change) and when the fallout kicks in for us to say it's not our problem

That picture regardless of where it's from, let's consider what was provided for them as they arrived? Was there adequate access to sanitation for example?

We have a duty to help those in need and currently it's one collectively we're shirking.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

Nice pair of blinkers you're wearing there

Did the EU cause this crisis? Answer NO
Are the EU trying their best to resolve this crisis? NO
Have you put forward one solution to the crisis despite being asked to multiple times? NO
Are you more interested in having your little rants? Most certainly!!


You are the true product of Thatcherism, A perfect example of so long as I'm all right jack screw everybody else.

You have no concept and no wish to assist a fellow human being.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Must have missed the bit where the likes of Turkey and Greece are putting the supposed refugees in actual HOUSES, giving them free access to their health services, education, food, money etc. Or are they just in UN funded camps? Not a comparable situation.

If housing is the problem then ship them off to eastern Europe. Romania alone has seen a drop of over 3m in their population. Must be 100,000s of empty houses waiting for them. If the UK is allowed to move people out of London to seek housing elsewhere, then surely on the SAME basis as many other EU rules, they can be shipped off to other EU countries for housing instead.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

To confirm, we build camps for refugees and it's OK for them to come here?

I notice you didn't pick up on the 2.5m in Saudi a great deal of whom HAVE been given housing, medical, food etc. which means it IS directly comparable.


The Kingdom has received around 2.5 million Syrians since the beginning of the conflict. In order to ensure their dignity and safety, the Kingdom adopted the policy not to treat them as refugees or place them in refugee camps. They have been given the freedom to move about the country, and those who wish to remain in Saudi Arabia (some hundreds of thousands) have been given legal residency status like the remaining residents. Their residency comes with the rights to receive free medical care, to join the labor market and to attend schools and universities. This was contained in a royal decree in 2012 that instructed public schools to accept Syrian students. According to government statistics, the public school system has accepted more than 100,000 Syrian students.

The Kingdom’s efforts were not limited to accepting our Syrian brothers and sisters after their crisis; it also extended its efforts to support and care for millions of Syrian refugees in neighboring countries such as Jordan, Lebanon and others. Efforts included providing humanitarian assistance in coordination with the host governments and with international human aid organizations. Aid was provided in the form of money and goods.

The aid provided by Saudi Arabia to the Syrian people totals around $700 million, according to the statistics of the Third International Humanitarian Pledging Conference for Syria, which took place in Kuwait on March 31, 2015. Government aid and aid provided by the National Campaign are included in that figure.

Humanitarian aid provided to Syrians by the Kingdom consisted of food and medical, academic, and residential supplies, and included the establishment of Saudi specialized clinics in refugee camps, most importantly the Zaatari Camp in Jordan. The Kingdom was able to provide medical care in the form of immunizations, preventive treatments and medical procedures. In addition, Saudi Arabia sponsored a large number of Syrian families living in Lebanon and Syria (specifically paying for their rent and living costs).


Again taken from https://www.saudiembassy.net/press-r...s09111501.aspx

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We're spending £12 billion plus helping those in need. Hardly shirking IMHO I don't believe we should also throw open the doors to anyone who wants to come into this country to the detrement of the indiginous population.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Of course it isn't rocket science and I'd probably do the same. But then I wouldn't qualify as being 'desperate' or 'in need'.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Check your facts, £12bn is the TOTAL international aid budget

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Are you claiming that this money is NOT being spent on those in need. Or is it that you have more sympathy for Syrians etc rather than others?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Let's see, travel 2000 miles (for example) to a country which has stated it doesn't want refugees or travel 3000 miles to somewhere that will welcome you. Doesn't make you any less desperate or in need in my book.

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 ----------


Considering some of our international aid budget goes to India, A powerhouse economy which has nuclear weapons. I'm saying the money can be better spent. I'm also saying we need to better prioritise our treatment of refugees.

Are you saying it's acceptable for the UK to go into countries such as Iraq,Libya or Syria to attempt and in certain instances succeed in destabilise those countries. And then all we do is give them some money??

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That's because you're a lefty luvvie .....[Mod Edit - insult removed] You and your Thatcherism quotes, pretty funny considering your age Thatcher couldn't have done much to affect you personally...

Ask those who died in the Med or suffocated in lorries in Austria, that travelling further isn't hazardous.

Oh and stop doing the 'we caused the problem with our western Democracy & wars'. *I* did no such thing, I'd have quite happily left them all to it, they seem perfectly proficient in killing each other without any need of our help. Perhaps is Golden Tone hadn't fed everyone a line of bs with his WMD there wouldn't have been a war (Remember he's like the opposite of Thatcher)

And stop calling them Refugees, they stopped being that, when they kept crossing numerous Countries borders - you can't have it both ways.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

How on earth would you know what Thatcher did to me personally you utter [Mod Edit - insult removed] ?

I'm no leftie luvvie idiot thanks, I'm a balanced individual who believes in humanity.

We, collectively did cause the problem, we, collectively voted in the government that lead us into multiple conflicts where their legality could be disputed.

The problem is we were lead to wars, that have helped to cause this crisis. we now have to deal with the consequences

And, they are refugees as per definition:-


The 1951 Refugee Convention spells out that a refugee is someone who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to, or owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country."

It has the nothing to do with which country borders they cross.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

[Mod Edit - insult removed] comment withdrawn, apologies.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I tend to agree that there's a clear political motive amongst SOME of those who're so very keen to admit all and sundry then worry about the consequences for us all later. No doubt when the irreversible damage to our society is well and truly done they'll scuttle off to find another worthy cause and find a way to blame the damage on Thatcher or some other evil Tory xenophobe...

Labour have previous when it comes to matters migration haven't they - an intentional and cynical policy of social engineering, importing people likely to remain here and vote for them in perpetuity. Shirley Porter with diamond encrusted knobs on! Only now they're out of office and seeking a way back in are they reluctantly admitting the negatives they once vehemently denied - the pressure on services/resources, the effect on low skilled workers, the tensions between communities. etc. etc. etc. Wind back the tape a decade or more and you'll hear these same people shouting down those of us who had the temerity to point out the inevitable consequences of their policy. Some of them are doing exactly the same now and others are only showing tacit dissent from that line because of the prevailing public mood of opposition. Give these people power again and it'll be more of the same make no mistake!

The Tories have abjectly failed to control immigration, having (cynically I believe) promised the undeliverable, yet even they have more credibility than Corbyn's cronies on this subject . Right now I think we're very lucky they're in power, because the alternative with Labour in charge would be a nightmare.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Wild speculation as always


A very very simple question for you. (taken from the BBC)

Who are the 120,000?
All are migrants "in clear need of international protection" to be resettled from Italy, Greece, Hungary to other EU member states
15,600 from Italy, 50,400 from Greece, 54,000 from Hungary, though it is unclear how many are still in Hungary
Initial screening of asylum applicants carried out in Greece, Hungary and Italy
Syrians, Eritreans, Iraqis prioritised
Financial penalty of 0.002% of GDP for those member countries refusing to accept relocated migrants
Relocation to accepting countries depends on size of economy and population, average number of asylum applications
Transfer of individual applicants within two month

Do you think the above is acceptable? and that the UK should play it's FAIR part?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

No, no, no!!! We're not doing enough!!! :rolleyes:

In other news:

I notice the offers of free housing etc. seem to have dried up somewhat, maybe folks have suddenly realised that, contrary to what the likes of the BBC like to show, the vast majority of those on the move in the EU are single young men, not little old ladies, pregnant women and cute young children. I can see fights breaking out amongst the great and the good as they struggle to take in the nice refugees as opposed to the more challenging who'll be left for the rest of us to deal with...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well given your age, you would have been 10? when the Miners strike happened, and 15 ish when the Poll Tax stuff happened, I'd suggest your fetishism with Thatcher is more down to 'Inherited learnings' than personal experience.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

No it's nothing like that - it's just a typical standard Labourite defence offered by those who have no answers and refuse to accept any blame.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You would be suggesting wrongly.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:04 ----------

Care to expand on that one?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

In that case we have a different defintion of 'desperate' or 'in need'. If you refuse safety (or several offers of safety) because it doesn't suit you then you're makiing a choice.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So by your logic all refugees should only move to the nearest geographically located safe country e.g Syria to Turkey for example?

Seems fair

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Russ, can you elaborate more on this offer of safety that seems to be have refused? You are right, if these people all have been made aware of region local refugee camps that are available, have reasonable sanitation, facilities, etc, are correctly funded, operated by UNHR or equivalent NGO then they should not be arriving on the doorstep of the EU.

Is this truly the case?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

To the nearest safe EU member state, yes. If that country cannot accept them then that government should have the responsibility of transferring them to another safe EU country, the location of which should be between the relevant governments and NOT just the choice of the refugee.

If you are desperate then you’ll accept the first safe country that will take you. If you refuse it then you’re making a choice.


France is a good example.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Add, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Austria, Italy, Greece,.... widely varying degrees of comfort and welcome yes but 'safe', I'd say so when compared to what these people claim they're fleeing from.

I reckon that if countless thousands of migrants suddenly decided that the home towns and villages of those who support open doors were their preference they'd soon have a change of heart and be demanding action to stem the tide. So much for generosity... :rolleyes:

As it is, these migrants will not be or stay dispersed for long and we'll have no means by which to stop them going where they like. Watch the sentiment change when that happens - pity it'll be too late then...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They're true but France is the obvious example when refugees are at Calais trying to get to us.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yet again, it's another sweeping generalisation with no actual factual basis at all!!

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

So, just to clarify... we are to let other member states of the EU struggle on their own until they can't manage before the next bordering country steps in to assist.?

Again, seems fair, the very definition and spirit of the word Union.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yes that's probably the best example of all. There is no need for anyone to be holed up in squalor in Calais unless they're intending to take advantage of our 'system'. I reckon the main reasons for this would be housing/benefits (as clarified in earlier posts) or to work illegally, disappear into our large black economy and cynically use a belated asylum claim only when they've been detected and are facing removal. They know the longer they stay, they less likely it is they'll ever be removed no matter what their true background, reasons and behaviour. Our shambolic 'system' is a big pull factor and the thousands at Calais prove it.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Putting words in my mouth again; I've already addressed that the last time you suggested it.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Hate to burst your bubble but...
We didn't join a Union, we joined something called the Common Market (the clue is in the name)

We never voted for anything beyond that, we had a referendum about 5 minutes after joining and no clue was what happening back in the 70's

Your bloody Union has spread like a Cancer far beyond what it was envisaged back in the day.

Happily however, after a LOT of campaigning, we WILL now get a chance to vote on whether to stay in or out of said... Union

Don't bother trying to guess what I'll be voting for ;)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Spirit of the word Union :rofl:

Germany's showing their definition of the word - creating a problem then telling the rest of the EU how they're going to have to deal with it just like they did with Greece.

Anyway I'm sure all those who've forced their way through numerous countries are going to queue up nicely in Germany and happily wait for their buses to Latvia, Poland, Lithuania, Slovakia in full expectation of a warm welcome and a better life... :rolleyes:

Let's see what 'union' looks like then eh?

What needs to happen for the hard of mental ability is to stop the problem nearer to the source and not let hundreds of thousands of people feel they can overwhelm borders and choose where they go. When we've got to that point the real damage is done and the only choice is to then erect national borders to try to stem the flow and discourage other from following. That's exactly what's happened as a result of the EU's dithering and Merkel's welcome.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Link.
When do the rest of us get all that?

So actually many times the 20,000 to arrive here.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I think it is pretty obvious that if all those who came to Europe were deported back, they would stop coming.

However, we need to have a compassionate and properly thought out policy to deal with this without opening the floodgates.

Our systems cannot support these numbers.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Our system certainly can't and when it starts to fall apart you can bet those who wanted the gates opened will be at the head of the queue in complaining about how their services have been affected. Idiots!

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:50 ----------

Mere details... :rolleyes:

:tu:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Ok explain clearly and categorically how it should work ?

---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Erm, wrong.....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memb...European_Union

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------


I'm sorry, Germany created this problem ?

I've been a member of this board for god knows how long (as have you) and I don't think I've read another post quite so delusional

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Is there any point if you're not going to pay attention to it?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Osem never says how we "stop the problem nearer to the source". Can someone ask him this as I suspect he has me in his ignore list ;)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I forgot you were probably about 2 when we joined, believe me it was referred to as the Common Market, then later on the EEC.

We joined in 73 had a referendum in 75 long before it mutated into the European Behemoth with mass powers in Brussels overriding sovereign ones.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Is that a rhetorical question? :D

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:52 ----------

Yes it was widely referred to as the 'Common Market' at that time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7q3B8mr4-c

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Bravo I have genuine difficulty trying to get where you coming from so I ask you to explain clearly to continue a reasoned debate and rather than oblige you would rather insult and again patronise

From a mod too.....

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Funny that he also hasn't answered several reasonable questions put to him likes his rants mind you !

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Admin. And we're not immune to people ignoring points we make. If you feel I've insulted you you know where the 'report post' button is.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Mod/admin same stuff different day

I'm asking you to make the point more clearly so I can understand it, do you have an issue with this

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I'm quite interested in seeing Ignitionnets take on this, because he's generally quite rational & sensible, too much point scoring & head in the sand attitude here atm.
Reality may not be a nice place to be, but it is more real than the Fairyland several members seem to think they inhabit.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I think that's the issue: he has some very good points but they get lost in the noise. He also fails repeatedly to provide a constructive response to the issue. Just saying they "should not come here" doesn't provide any insight in how to stop them leaving where they live or any humane approach to encouraging them to return.

---------- Post added at 23:07 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

You mean you want him to post because he agrees with you then ..

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I'll pass on this one. The high ground here is, for me, no ground.

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

Sorry to disappoint :)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34345640

It was all so very predictable...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It's also clear that the migrants will violently resist being re-located to places they don't want to go.

Merkel threw the doors open and said to all: "Come to Germany", so they are. Perhaps we should be greatful that magnet is deflecting most of them away from Calais.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It is not me that will disappointed :)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Suppose that photo just shows what happens when we MAKE people people live in squalor for a few days, I mean heaven forbid anything like that should be allowed to happen on the green and pleasant lands of blighty....

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...7&d=1443096639

A quite apt photo for you from the Guardian following this year's Glastonbury.

(Sorry about the image size but can't resize it on my tablet)

Cheers

Grim

[Mod Edit - image re-sized, and inappropriate word partially blanked out.

Please remember this is a family-friendly forum, and use language appropriate to that.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Correct - if they've broken their way through borders to get into Germany I can't see any reason why they wouldn't resist being forced to leave having had their hopes unrealistically raised.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34358410

Never mind, just keep telling people it'll all be ok...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So once we let them in we all have to be segregated by gender and nationality in order to be safe?

Meanwhile outside Calais.
And these are the sort of people we're meant to welcome with open arms and houses?Syria not mentioned there.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Whilst I'm sure they won't be staying at Sir Bob's place, we mustn't forget they're all going to be of huge benefit to UK PLC... :rolleyes:

It wouldn't be so worrying if we had the means and the will to remove law breakers, especially serious ones, but we all know that even that is pie in the sky.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I'm sure that they will all be fine upstanding citizens once they get here. :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

elsewhere in germany...

A 51-year-old German woman is being evicted from her home of 16 years to make way for refugees, with shelters already full across the country

The next German general election could be interesting.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-eu-34350800

Never mind eh? We're all the same...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34380438

Oh well I'm sure there won't be any rioting when large numbers of these people are told they're being sent home... :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Seeing as they're at each-others throats in their own countries is it any surprise that coming over to Europe in large numbers that they will continue to be at each-others throats over here?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well even if they don't have existing reasons for hating each other they seem to be acquiring them fast and religious, cultural, economic and other rivalries will only make things worse I reckon. Syrians and Iraqis getting 'preferential' treatment? I can see that going down really well with the hordes of economic migrants (SOME of whom will be deeply unpleasant and even dangerous people) who're desperate to get into the Europe and disappear...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34402001

They're mainly from Syria? Ermmm actually, no they're not. Syrians form the largest single group but far more are coming from places like Albania, Kosovo and Serbia. What's their reason for claiming asylum in Germany?

To my mind there's no denying that Merkel's invitation has worked rather better than the Eurocrats could ever have imagined and the price to be paid is increasing by the day.

I hope the Euro-ditherers are going to get their fingers out pretty dammed quick because if they don't they're going to have the deaths of a great many more migrants on their hands as winter sets in.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34422558

Does anyone really think trying to assimilate all these people (and the many more who'll follow as dependants of successful asylum claimants) isn't going fraught with problems such as these and yet more social unrest?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

With David Cameron saying that we will take in 20 000 refugee's. I found it interesting to watch a News item in the London area.

Where they were asking the general public on there views. They spoke with a variety of nationals, some said yes, provided it didn't put a strain on services.

But they spoke with a gentleman who said exactly, what everyone else is saying
He firmly believes that 'he' should consider the people that are in this country first, before considering taking in others.

The UK is a small Island compared to the rest of the world. And yet, even Corbyn is saying that we should take in more.

There is only so many you can take in before this great Island says enough is enough

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That's us. the little red right bottom half one.
a lot of people don't realise just how tiny and irrelevant we are in the world.

We're full to the brim. we're falling over each other as it is.
we haven't even got anywhere to park a car!

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/10/13.gif

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That's theft :(

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We could do similar.
anyone with too many bedrooms should be forced to let immigrants use it.
obviously if they pay tax on the extra bedroom/s at the moment then that should cease when the family moves in.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I wouldnt be against such a law used on 2nd+ homes that arent been used. Suddenly buying a house would no longer be a sure bet.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Gary, l totally disagree with you. I have an extra bedroom as my son moved out. There is no way that l would give to a refugee.

Why should we give up a spare room for refugee, when we have thousands of homeless on the streets of London.

EACH year at Xmas, empty buildings are open to care for the homeless over Xmas. These are the homeless of this country.

IF, this country can look after refugees then they can look after there own people as well. BUT THEY DONT.

Its appears that David Cameron is trying to show the side of goodwill, well he should show towards his own voters.

And the really funny thing is though. Bob Geldof said that refugee's can live in his London Flat. What about the Homeless that are just up the road

Go to Dover and see the refugees there.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Would you let a homeless British person stay in your spare bedroom then, Arthur?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I think for now it would be better to look at reclaiming land from developers after a certain period of time if they haven't used it which was one of Labour's ideas at the last election.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I see the hordes are storming the tunnel again. I don't see why we should take anyone in Calais in let alone those who're already intent on abusing our laws before they've even got here. Until we send a message to those who try to gain entry into the UK in this manner, that they'll never be allowed to remain/acquire citizenship, they'll carry on doing so by ever more extreme means.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34432386

I'm sorry but there's no need for these people to be camped out in squalor and risking their lives, they're doing it by choice because they perceive the UK to be a better bet than France. If that means loading old ladies and kids into leaky boats, setting off across the Channel and seeing them drown they'll do it because they believe that will give them the political and emotional leverage to circumvent the rules as is happening across the med.

Having gained entry effectively by intimidation, force and/or aggression, does anyone really think their behaviour will improve once they get here and decide there are other procedures, expectations, rules and laws they don't quite like?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well said :tu:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well it seems a fairly logical conclusion. They've stubbornly refused to conform with legal and other requirements to date and repeatedly broken the law with no real consequences. Unless they face real consequences why would they change their strategy?

Frankly I think letting people like this (and far worse quite probably) into the UK is madness and there's a steady flow doing just that every day of every week of every year while we make a big show about checking passports at our airports in the name of national security. It's utterly ridiculous.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That's a Corbynistic type of solution if ever I heard one!

You got Arthur going, anyway!

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

:clap:

Whilst we're waiting for Arthurs response here is some light music

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34442121

They'll also face a very considerable problem dealing with the hundreds of thousands of economic migrants not entitled to asylum, let alone removing them.

I was listening to a German MEP claiming that asylum claim rejection rates are very high in Germany so I think a lot of 'welcome' people aren't goint to feel quite so 'welcome'... :erm:

Good job it's all been so well thought through eh... :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If they're at all concentrated it's going to feel like the country's been invaded. I wonder how the far right groups are going to respond? The last mass migration was after German unification but those migrants were essentially Germans already and not putting too fine a point: White Christians.

It does not bode well.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That wasn't without its problems either and there's still quite a lot of resentment I believe.

Yes you can see trouble coming - well, unless you're a Eurocrat or someone with another agenda. Tensions have been rising all over Europe and this is merely going to fuel the fire. Large numbers of mainly muslim migrants suddenly arriving and requiring all sorts of support. Then there's the question of integration...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We are currently on holiday in Graz, Austria and there are banners out saying "Refugees welcome". No one we have spoken to has expressed the "Not our problem" attitude prevalent in this country. Our hosts here have recently come back from eastern Austria where they were volunteering in helping the refugees coming into Austria near the border with Hungary. They said "what should we do? Just watch these people and do nothing? Yes there is a need for long term refugee camps nearer where they are fleeing but until then, do we just watch them struggle?"

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Thats one of the big issues with immigration, immigrants dont tend to spread out evenly over the country, instead they tend to crowd in certian parts. e.g. in the uk Birmingham, Leicester and London have felt it a lot.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Refugees are welcome here as well. I think the polls show that. The trouble is that we're having a hard time telling them from economic migrants.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That may in part be because Austria hasn't seen mass migration on the scale we have over the last decade or more and doesn't yet have all the associated problems of integrating vast numbers of people of vastly different cultures. Sooner or later their welcome will evaporate as they experience more of the problems seen elsewhere across Europe and they become a long term issue which ordinary people realise isn't going away any time soon. In the UK the problems of mass migration aren't distributed equally with certain major towns/cities seeing massive changes and pressures whilst other places remain largely isolated from them. No wonder therefore that some people complain or are more welcoming than others. The argument isn't whether hostility will develop, it's merely a question of how long it takes and the evidence is there to see across the EU.

Let's see how long the welcome banners remain when their public spaces become occupied and despoiled, services become stretched, tensions rise, fights break out amongst rival migrant groups and crime inevitably results as we're now seeing in Germany.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It is good to know that Osem knows more about Austria than the people that live here ;) Strange though .. I thought I was on his ignore list ...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Personally, I'm not sure why the government haven't approached asking for input or to manage the immigration policy.

Actually, I think i know why......

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34450887

Ever since Labour well and truly opened the floodgates we've heard tougher talk about controlling immigration. We heard if from Bliar's cronies just before elections and after years suffering at the hands of their social engineering policy. Since then we've heard all again from successive governments but it's all so much hot air isn't it? Frankly I don't see how, as long as we remain within the EU, we can ever hope to control the numbers choosing to come here. It seems ridiculous to me that low/unskilled workers can come here from all over Europe whilst people with real skills from elsewhere around the globe are made to jump through ever more hoops. To me it smacks of an cynical effort (a very poor one at that) to keep the overall numbers as low as possible without too much thought about the quality of the people who're being allowed to come here and what long term benefit they may be to the UK.

Theresa May is going to talk tough but, even if she sincerely means what she says, I have not a shred of faith in her ability to deliver.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

As per usual you keep swallowing the rhetoric you're being fed, don't think to actually question what you're being told. Sheep


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...lly-wrong.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34461503

Too little too late methinks. The criminal gangs behind this issue move and change tactics much faster than the EU behemoth can react.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Hope you enjoy, I consider Austria my 2nd home and live just an hour away near Graz. Also Styrian pumpkinseed oil is a DOP product and used more than olive oil; the locals swear by it

Whilst the FPO have had this core support for a number of years (Austria equivalent of a stronger UKIP) on the whole Austria always wants to do what is best and his a very much foreward thinking country. To say it has little experience is wrong asAustria was one of the main countries where refugees fled the Yugoslavia conflict in the 90's which was on their borders. for a population of just shy of 8 1/2 million, they are coping rather well

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I'm not criticising the way they're coping merely pointing out that the strain they're under is intolerable which is why at times they've chosen to close their borders more than once and will no doubt have to do so again. Compared to the 1990's what's happening is going to prove a tidal wave and that is what will ultimately cause opinions to change. No country, however well organised or generous, can absorb an unlimited amount of migrants or genuine refugees for that matter. The numbers coupled with the speed at which they're arriving is the major problem.

As for being welcoming, it's only anecdotal of course but we have great personal experience of the way in which former E. Europeans were and still are often treated in Austria, even since their entry into the EU so let's not run away with the notion that everyone in Austria is a saint, open to unlimited immigration and the integration of people from all around the globe. That's as true of the UK as it is Austria. Anyway time will tell how long the people remain accepting - we've seen what's been happening elsewhere and I don't see Austria being any different in the end, there's always a tipping point.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

BOOM! soon.

one day we were security conscious. the next we just open the gates hoping that some of them might be terrorists and want to, and exceed in killing us all.

which they probably will.

the big question is. like what he said in the video.
who's going to restore law and order when it all kicks off?

this is how we do things here.
balls to that mate. we're taking over and we hear that you have no police. and whatever police you do have are too soft. so what ya gonna do about it?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And it's not going to get better.

the world is changing. the world is angry. everyone wants to fight.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

How Hamburg is trying to cope with the influx:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34448779

And still they come. All this is great but it seems to me unlikely that these migrants will happily remain cooped up in such accommodation when they had such high hopes (quite probably unrealistic) of a new life in Germany. The more who come, the greater the pressure, the less resources there are to go around and the more people will become frustrated and angry that things haven't turned out quite how they'd hoped as quickly as they'd like. What's effectively happening here is the creation of ghettos and whilst they're supposed to be temporary, who's doing what to slow, let alone stop the increasing flow of migrants?

You can have every sympathy in the world for these poor people and as much admiration as you like for the efforts being made to accommodate them but we all know that it can't carry on like this. Once you have large numbers of desperate people grouped together some of who will be granted asylum and others who won't, things are going to get very nasty. Nobody's just going to volunteer to go back home are they. Even if jobs and services can be provided to these people how much resentment will that have created in the minds of Germany's existing poor and struggling which will include migrants who've been there for years and who are still struggling? How much resentment will it create in the longer term when these new migrant communities rightly or wrongly form the conclusion that they're in Germany not to build a better life but to provide cheap labour and do all the dirty jobs? How will they feel when large numbers of them haven't made it to the top of the tree and skilled people have been left languishing in low skilled, low paid jobs with little or no hope of anything better. In the UK we're still seeing the legacy of similar problems dating back to the 1950's when large numbers of immigrants were attracted to the UK on the basis of jobs and a better life and many of them still feel they've not really been accepted or empowered to achieve their full potential in society. It wasn't thought through then and it isn't being thought through now, the main difference is that the people involved are far more desperate, diverse and numerous. One of the biggest problems here is managing the expectations of the migrants who're coming and who can blame them for choosing to believe the best not the worst?...

The lack of foresight and/or level of denial evident is quite astonishing and the potential for huge social unrest and political turmoil is huge.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Heard this early this morning on the world service. Worth a listen. Migrants expectations on arrival in Germany (Hamberg) vs the reality. A pity that those desperate people trying to get there won't believe it.

(iPlayer link)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yes, that's certainly what's happening. Quite some time ago I recall seeing a TV interview with a guy in Lampedusa IIRC. The reception centre conditions there were appalling, he'd seen what was going on elsewhere and he'd been in contact with other friends and relatives in Libya telling them not to come. They'd all chosen not to believe him and come regardless.

I honestly believe some people don't fully appreciate just how desperate these migrants are and how they'll choose to believe virtually anything, except the awful truth. That'd account for why they take such extreme chances and are driven to risk their lives - nobody in their right mind would set off into a leaky boat if they really believed they'd drown. They've made their decision, this is their last hope and they'll understandably do whatever they can to get what they want. Managing the expectations of these people is going to be a massive challenge and I believe impossible. Dealing with all the ramifications of their broken dreams (albeit unrealistic ones) in the coming months and years will be another matter entirely. How many times do we need to see this repeated around the world before we realise that assimilation on such a scale and at such speed is impossible?

Meanwhile, at least the traffickers are being targeted but once again the sheer numbers of them are putting huge strain on the prison system in Austria:

http://www.thelocal.at/20151006/pris...ople-smugglers

More negative ramifications to deal with.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It'll be interesting to see how this goes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34471858