Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

And I assume (as you haven't cited a source - an article or a court document for example) that it cannot be quite as black and white as you claim.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

It seems some people don't know how to use Google (it was actualy proven one night).

Link*


* Hint it's the second link down.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

1. No-one likes a smart-arse.
2. You could (actually should) have provided a link yourself in your original post. There is no need to make people go specifically looking.
3. That is only their response and not the original letter.

I don't have time now* to go through the whole thing, but “permission to scan clippings for 16 national titles and 90 regional newspapers plus some foreign newspapers” seems, to me, at face value, to be substantially more than them having "linked to an article".


(* I have a live show to do on the local hospital radio station.)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

* Source

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Gigidy.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

That's an excellent find, and well done to McGarr solicitors for so assiduously defending the Womens' Aid people - abuse of copyright protection is not appropriate.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I appreciate that your discussion has moved on probably seeing as its 40+ pages long but can someone explain to me why the powers that be are having kittens about TPB or torrenting but not newsgroups where from my knowledge the big "offenders" download from? Or is the issue that the ISPS are being used to transmit the material?

Does paying a monthly fee to a 3rd party "criminal" hosting it all make it more legal cos they pay tax on their earnings?

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Because the copyright laws are either unworkable/unenforceable or the powers that be have no clue what they are doing ,take your pick

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

How about these 'finds'. The last one proving only the media companies can get away with infringing copyright.

Dave Gorman

A Lindsay Lohan fan

Adele Dubois

Jay Leno

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Still only blocked on VM via 1 address, Every other option works first time :LOL:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

The site with the most blatant copyright infringing material is surely YouTube and they actually host the material itself not just links to trackers. I doubt we'll see any court orders trying to block that though.

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------

20 seconds on google to find one which in the article was apparently the first alternate IP and it does indeed work just fine.

This debacle is hardly showing English courts in a good light. I wonder if there is a Plan B.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Been saying it for a while about Youtube.

However they are big and have the money to be able to fight the rights holders. On those grounds the rights owners will just settle with suing the average Joe int the street like the cowards they are.

---------- Post added at 16:09 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

Maybe we were given an indication about plane B over the weekend :shocked:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Aren't YouTube owned by Google? I'd love to see someone take them on directly.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

The French courts have just proved your point.

Google been taken on and won a couple of times. The trouble is Google is TOO big it's the little sites that are being harassed.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Unfortunatly Russ the rights owners don't have the balls for a real fight and choose to pick on the small guy instead.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked (Discuss but do not post detail of how to get round it)
 

Just as long as we don't confuse freedom with rights.

I have the freedom to steal stuff, but I do need to be aware of the rights of others and the law. If I choose to ignore those I must accept the consequences.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Looks very much like the defence the Megaupload owners put up - didn't stop the Septics shutting the site down and cuffing the owners though. It also caused a whole raft of other hosting sites to commit hari-kari by only serving uploaded files to the original uploader.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

That case is slowly falling apart, they didn't even have the correct warrants when they did the raid so there is some debate as to whether the evidence is even admissible. Then the FBI moved the computers to the US without the New Zealand authorities knowing.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Sky blocks access to The Pirate Bay file-sharing site



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18270343

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I wonder if there block is as ineffective as all the others :D

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

answers the question why only VM had started the ban

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Well, my dad knows very little about computers, but does use piratebay a lot, he's already figured out how to get around it with a quick google search.

:rolleyes:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

:LOL:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

(I should've added, he's nearly 70 years old and only started using computers at 65ish :P)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

"A sixth operator, BT, has been given extra time to make the necessary arrangements. It is expected to act within the next fortnight."

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Yes. So they claim. Doesn't mean it's true and that they will get away with asking.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

It was quite difficult to get around and took me a good 30 to 40 seconds :D

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

amateur :D

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Wow needed a network god to work it out then :D

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

At this rate it'll take me minus a month or more to get around it

Since BT haven't even implemented the block yet.

Beat that.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Actually, I think it shows an example of a media company / YouTube bot being over-zealous - not sure it proves anything (any more than some one providing an example of a downloader burning stuff to discs and selling them at a car boot sale 'proves' all downloaders do that....).

Has he thought of contacting NBC/Google, or would he rather just be a drama queen?

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

No arguments there, I am :D

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Guess you've totally missed the point then.

I couldn't find it, I only did a quick look through my history, but I saw something this week where some 'partner' of a major studio was actually issuing takedown notices for a film the studio they were working on behalf of were trying to promote.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I think the point I was trying to make was exceptions shouldn't be taken as rules, but I guess you missed that point....;)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Google recently published their takedown requests for May 2012 . Out of 1.2 million I guess there's quite a few 'exceptions' in that lot as well. Personally, I would say the only reason those 'exceptions' are known about is that they happen to involve celebrities.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Firstly, here's a working link to the correct page :)

So not actual figures/proof then.

Yet more guesswork. Get back to us when you have some facts to work with :rolleyes:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

No, but then I don't have time to go through them all. This looks like a good candidate and after just 15 mins of browsing the data it's a blog about business growth that basically has nothing but links so it looks like we're back to linking to another web site is copyright infringement. Unfortunately until it's available here we won't really know.

---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------

I knew this was coming.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

The other thing is that Google do have a record of complying with legitimate take down requests.

While there is no way on earth they can totally remove all copyrighted content from Youtube (short of shutting down the service), they probably get a lot of leeway because they can show they have procedures in place to reduce copyright infringment.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

It's called DMCA safe harbour and yet that didn't help Megaupload. But then they dared to take Universal to court for taking their video off YouTube*.

* Source

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I'd give up on quoting sources if I were you, this ain't wikipedia. Anyone with any level of sense or intelligence will be able to find it themselves, and others will ignore and deny anything they don't agree with anyway.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Bearing in mind at least one of the posters he is discussing this with he probably does need to provide the sources. Of course the sensible thing to do would be to walk away from the thread.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

It aint rocket science thats for sure :D

Not that I use TPB, I just don't like being told where I can and can't surf.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

True.

LMAO.

But then people would have read and maybe believed a load of the rubbish that has been posted.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

It is the "done thing" (ie normal) to provide reputable sources to back up any claims made because, of course, this is the internet where anyone can claim anything.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------

Exactly the point and applies to both sides of any discussion.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

"I would say" is an opinion, not a guess. :rolleyes:

If people keep acting like a bunch of 10 year olds then this thread will be closed.

Thats a fact, not guesswork.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Meh, I would say it should have been closed weeks ago.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

And I would say I agree with you :)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Doesn't seem to be going anywhere now does it?

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Not so much, no.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Ok I have just done a test.

A film was legally distributed on the piratebay called nasty old people.

When I add the tracker on my VM connection all the trackers timeout, only 2 of the trackers are piratebay.

I then installed utorrent on a windows server I got in a DC and added the tracker to it, some of the trackers still dont work but 3 trackers on that work fine.

So it would appear either VM are blocking more than piratebay or their torrent traffic shaping is extreme enough to cause connections to not complete. Incidently the movie downloaded in 14 seconds on the server in the DC, I wonder how fast it would have been on my VM line had it made a connection to a tracker.

Incidently kwikbreaks is bang on the money, I seen the bbc news article on he piratebay and it had a logo showing the piratebay homepage. that logo made me interested, I visited the site via a proxy and found out they making movies, the first been nasty old people and a 2nd one is in progress now.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Yep i think the point has been proven that the rights owners will not win using the method they are using at the moment. So the thread has run its course.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

True.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Yes, and? People make errors. Hardly "news" and completely irrelevant :rolleyes:

Also already being discussed here.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

This doesn't have a distribution/publish date attributed to it so although it's under the 'latest news' section I don't know how up to date it is, but I think it is relevant to what is being discussed:

http://www.nfib.police.uk/nfib-and-b...ht-piracy.html

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Indeed. I do think that it is these groups that pose the bigger threat to the industries concerned than any single individual. Although, that said, thousands of "single individuals" cn soon add up :)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

this ip is perfectly legal and not subject to a court order, no more slow proxies for me :)

<Deleted - CF has made it very clear we do not allow detail to be posted that allows the court order to be easily circumvented>

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

my maths might be wrong but that works out at £4 lose per track traded if every one shared would have been bought instead seems a bit high ? if my maths is right lol may not be as i am trying to count zeros lol

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

It always makes me laugh when companies go out of there way to get other companies blocked for trading on various broadcasting site.

I have never heard of this 'pirate company, but it appears to me that 'we' the user are being told who we can contact, and who we can't.

We are already being told how much usage we can of BB on VM, If l pay for an Internet service, then l feel that l am legally entitled to use any site there is.

Or is it simply that 'A' has paid 'B' to use a site to make money out of us, and 'C' cannot.

Ie the football channel taken to court, as it broadcast from abroad, how petty and costly.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Bless.......

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

May the innocence of a child never be taken from you Arthur :D

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Whats has happened is VM have been forced to waste customers money attempting to block a site. Money that has been wasted because the block has spectacular fail.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Of course, if such sites didn't exist (and they only exist because some people like to steal stuff) then no such blocks would be necessary.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I use Pirate Bay to download the latest patches for Football Manager 2012 as well as the Real Time Editor. Why? Because they download fastest from there.

Explain to me again what it is I 'steal' from there?

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Not to say your wrong Carl but PTB is here for the purpose of giving people the right of view programmes/TV series/other material that the greedy copyright idiots/governments what to charge a huge sums for to line there own pocket & the share holders pockets without (company chief/s ex etc) taking any money away from themselves but getting the public to pay for them.

It's all about money + who gets more into their greedy little hands within the media industry may that music (they failed long time ago) film (near failing point) plus software companies etc knowing ripping most users/customers for some % profit margin for bonuses even charging extra plug-ins for this or that.

They can do what they like eg; media industry with there site blocks/direct DNS blocking/etc but PTB (pirate bay) with still be with us all, in some shape or form. Everyone knows that PTB put a solid plan to the media industry a few years ago on how they could make money (little less) plus have the public use legal versions of there media in one packet fits all solution but no, they didn't want to listen - the court cases proof that :dozey:.

The media industry kept with there same old out dated model of rip off fees/prices - still are doing so ! Tight copyright rules - adding on more years for royalty fees to artists (Cliff Richard) then sowing everything else up on the way - the 2012 Olympics is a good one for you (copyright) you cannot put a flag up with the Olympic rings without paying a fee to do so, even a union jack flag or anything of that nature; look for yourself the copyright poilce are out & about as I type this up; slapping shop keepers/ private homes with big fines- thats sound fair to you? no it's not. The 2012 Olympics are public funded from government backed loans so it's tax payers property :p:

I hope you get the chance to read this reply carl, then have insight on your prospective into the media world, it's build for public masses to enjoy but create wealth for the special few holding their so though-out high powered
position. I would like you to think about it carl as if you back the greedy money vampires of this world, your going to have a nasty shock when the world you think is right, crumbles away with your proceeded though of mind(from reading your reply - no offence).

To end my reply I hope one day people will just wake up to all these lies (media industry) + see how things can work for the benefit for all not the small few.

Peace out ~ Toonlight

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ----------

You make a good point Russ PTB is good for that + other things, beside I saw a figure the over @68% on PTB is totally legal any how. What PTB has got is a good system for people to use, it's easy, quick & has endless subject list to choose from.

For me it's the TV series section or film section if a channel/s in my country won't or are late in showing that episode or series, where do think is next best place to go? you got it; PTB some times you wait to the end of the series then download it all in one go - you got it... no advertisements, no spam :) unlike todays modern TV programming. I rest my case

Resting my fingers..~ toonlight :cool:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Great post, and way to bring this thread back to life. I've a feeling it was about to be read it's last rites.

Have to say though, I know there really are genuine users/distributors of purely legitimate material. I've downloaded and seeded Linux distro's for years, but to suggest TPB is in any way trying to be anything but what it really is, is funny. It's very name suggests what it was intended to be and no amount of 'just a minute' pointy-fingeredness is going to fool anyone. IF that's all they were, there'd be no problem. The point is, that's the furthest thing from what they are - the legitimate torrents are part of minority listings. Carl's at one extreme of the opinion, others at the other end - but the fact remains, really. To be fair to Carl, he did say ’some' people so wasn't suggesting everyone that uses the site is using it illegally. What would be more accurate however is 'most' people, and there's the rub.

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------

:edit: to address the TV stuff, that's what I use torrents and nntp for. But private trackers, never used TPB myself. I pay the license to watch TV shows but I missed it. I download it, watch and delete it. No victim there.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Fair enough. I knew I should have qualified my statement :blush:

However, if it didn't exist you could still get them from the official website I assume; which is probably where most people get them from.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

The official website usually directs people to torrent sites as it eases their own server loads. From reading their forum it seems the majority of users get the updates from torrent sites.

This is the problem. Those who salivate at being so "anti-pirate" often fail to stop and realise that things aren't always as black-and-white as they'd like to think.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Huh? :confused: Really not with you. You think these TV shows/films/etc. just get made for nothing and then sold for profit? :eek:

No-one has a right to anything we're talking about here. :rolleyes:

From another thread on another forum, apparently (as an example) the recent finale of "Game Of Thrones" cost something like $24m. You really think people should just be able to download it for nothing?

Of course it is. You want a film you have to buy it :rolleyes:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I've had times when it's faster to start a game download on steam, download it from torrent - copy it to the steam directory and let steam validate the files and replace what isn't legitimate.

Was getting a whopping 1.2MB/sec downloading Call Of Duty 4 on a Gbit line - Managed to get it done via torrents a hell of a lot quicker.

Steam just had to replace the exe with a legit one and it was done..

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I know that, and I do get the arguments, on both sides :)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Well there the que, carl your paying to use the software (company) not to own it as it once was or should be Carl there what they don't tell you. Apple does just this Carl with O/S + all there software - it's all linked to a central account, that get screwed up or banned you lose the access to the software; O/S; etc you have paid for in the first place, did you know this carl ? many apple users that have been hacked or banned for not fault of their own have found this out.

Many new produce lines are going to this set up now-days eg; BF3 Cod etc + wouldn't be surprised that the new windows 8 is going to be to same either. :shocked:

When you use PTB you get a full working copy not a link to piece of software or access to it, for it later to be not working after you paid out + the customer service doesn't exist in the first place for some...:confused: that the pure money vampire greed model for you, which you you'd like to be in carl ?
#darkside - having a full copy no problems
#currently legal - just having access + then cut off or problems no long after, to face poor or no comeback from the company you bought it off in the first place.

I know which I'd like to be on.... on the pirate side where I get little problems, which makes life much easier in the long term.

peace out~ toonlight

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:27 ----------

Well cost for anything media wise are over the top, can be made for lesser money & better content in the first place.. first point.... second do you kow how much a US show get for a ep of a currently running series? millions on top of millions per series in total. That more than enough to go around, too much for the chief ex pocket lining.:dozey:
Then again you barking up the wrong tree carl...... film re-releases/releases are over priced from the start eg; DVD/Blueray etc These are copies from the main reel, which costs them pennies in the pound but charge a whooping fee just own a copy under licence, yes you got it "under licence" read a back of a dvd or some of the paper info that come with any DVD carl..... you don't own it your getting a copy under a contract which limit your "copy" uses - private but commercial you have to pay a fee to the royalty board to show it or use it. Thats not a good funding structure at all.... a poor one at best !:mad:

Well no, your right there, but only there as once the per-say owner over steeps it's mark with rip-off prices or charges just for a copy or new add-on..... then we as group of person can say no we won't pay your over top price, then open it out for the rest to use it, for free to recoup the money given to the greedy owner in the first place, it's tough justice to the money vipers out there to wake up or not...what the case may be.

As for "Game Of Thrones" + "$24m" it's how over blow anything these days, yes It may cosy money but there other ways just like PTB (funding model) put to the media industry that would account for any thing to do with any new release or project in the works funding wise carl....

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Its like android in a sense check this page. Sickening treatment of consumers.

http://theunderstatement.com/post/11...ory-of-support

android phones shown here have a very poor history of having latest OS many models including the most expensive in history are released with old software and sometimes lag multi generations behind, consumers have resorted to sharing the ROM's between each other doing custom versions to update their own phones instead of doing what the phone vendors want them to do which is buy a new phone to get the latest software, torrent is one of the distribution methods of the software. As it stands the majority of it is legal practice.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Yes, I do know that. Hence you why you buy a 'licence' to use it. "as it once was"? Nope. Always been this way, I think.

No but then I have never used any Apple soft/hardware.

I have bought a few games now that require internet access for registration/play and not yet had a problem with any of them.

Wrong. TPB only hosts links. Or so they say. Are they lying?

And so what anyway? When I buy some software it's a fully-working copy.

And why have you change the argument to only computer software now? What about films and TV shows, etc?

That's possible, of course. Everyone could earn less money. But then so could some footballers so it's hardly particularly relevant.

Erm... did you not seem my comments re "Game Of Thrones" costing $24m above? :confused: Stuff costs money. This is not a revelation :rolleyes:

That may be your opinion but it does not make it fact.

Huh? :confused: Yes, the copies may cost "pennies in the pound" but it's "the main reel" that may have cost, say, $24m

It's like in R&D for medical research. Say they develop a new pill to help with.. I don't know... erm.... Cancer, for example.

There's a great (and very relevant) quote from "The West Wing".

http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-m...e-house,42075/

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I see that BT have finally blocked TPB

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

BT have not here. Are you sure the website was not just down for a bit?

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

i'm getting an "error site blocked" in firefox and I.E

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Me to, but it did take a whole 30 seconds or so to get round it - so i feel i am loosing my touch ;)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

30 secs ......... newbie :D

I honestly thought that BT where taking their time over implementing the ban to find a more effective way but apparently not

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

still access here:

Admin edit (Chris): Link removed. Once again, for the hard of reading: DO NOT post links designed to help people get round the block the UK Courts have imposed on access to the Pirate Bay.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Oh dear - the mods have already deleted lots of alternate links as I'm sure you must know.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Oops Apology for posted link.

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:05 ----------

apology won't do it again in future

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Just use a VPN, problem solved!

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

http://notalwaysright.com/thickheade...s-part-2/21041
note to the mods - this isn't how to get round the block, just a story from an isp's call center when they put the block up, thought it was funny :)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Like it, nice to see the future of Britain is safe with idiots like him.

Some of those phone calls are so funny in the tech support. Makes me despair about the future of the World, never mind Britain.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

What an absolute moron. I don't have anger issues, but it would be extremely difficult to stop myself from causing physical injury to this person had it been face to face and myself dealing with this.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

India seems to be going back maybe with acta looking like it will be blocked this could be what will eventually happen here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18551471

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I've read in several magazines that circumventing the block is not in itself illegal so it's just a moderation thing/cable forum policy :)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

and it is their forum so they can set whatever rules they want.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

:clap:

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

As previously posted on page 4 of this thread by one of the site owners.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

haha i love it lol... :D

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I have been reading that site (and it's other variants) on and off all day. "Hilarious" doesn't begin cover it!

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

looks like i've created some new regular visitors to that site, i found it originally after my boss had to deal with a very annoying customer and wanted to cheer her up as she felt she had done wrong.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

I was a very regular reader but since leaving work I haven't had the same amount of spare time for that sort of thing so I can't read the whole lot like I used to. :)

There is an Android (and probably iPhone) app which lets you dip in and grab a few when you have the time to spare so I use that now.

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

FYI this weeks Computer active tells you who to legally bypass blocked sites

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Yeah. I noticed that too :)

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Re: The Pirate Bay is blocked
 

Yes the ISP's are just puppets to the government wishes that's hows it's been; the government tells them to jump- the ISP's ask how high! Since if the ISP's what to operate in the EU which has been run by bankers from the start, you get no elected choice there/here....just do as they see fit. It's all the amount pound signs they can gather, not the peoples wishes/views...it's doesn't help with corrupt courts in the first place :mad:
Well it all down to how you see it, the reason in the first place for the push for the ban was media industry finding that PTB had better system from top to bottom plus revue market plan from the start. Basically you had two sides one that thrives on pure greed the other (PTB) had a fair balanced plan that works for both sides no one lost out - the modern media industry laugh at it; then found out otherwise very soon after even to this day for their earlier choice their revue model is still didn't work after all this time, more in the latter years !

On the other hand it's just as easy to bypass the block (PTB) just go to the pirate party web site > click on the proxy link (UK'rs) Do note no link posted, if anybody didn't know the link already
Good point, even it was good read as the ISP user admitted his own guilt to the CS rep in the phone, how low can one go, then again the ones that lose out others gain in there place. Where there one there will be much more mee thinks. :dunce: (if the cap fits....wear it !):p:

Peace out
Toonlight :cool: