Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35285967)

Is it because we have pandered to the wishy washy libs and are only allowed to talk and slap the hands of those involved. Why is it that in a interview last night the **** they were talking to quoted they could no longer do anything to him other than shout at him and he said i could live with that. He also said that i would not be punished because the law is on my side !!!!!.

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35285967)

I think when all this is over we need to have a hard look at the reason why the police can no longer go in hard with these *******s.

Is it because we have pandered to the wishy washy libs and are only allowed to talk and slap the hands of those involved. Why is it that in a interview last night the **** they were talking to quoted they could no longer do anything to him other than shout at him and he said i could live with that. He also said that i would not be punished because the law is on my side !!!!!.

We need to remove the weak arsed laws that we have been conned into by liberals who say we cannot punish kids and go back to the short sharp shock treatments including the use of borstals for those under 16 and JAIL sentences for the older *******s.

If we need more jails BUILD the buggers it might give the construction industry a much needed boost. Any of those that are not meant to be here and are on immigration requests should be returned from where they came because if they cannot behave then why should we have to deal with them. Anyone else involved should not be fined but jailed and if necessary made to work during the day on the cleanup.

End of rant

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35285977)

3 people killed trying to protect their homes.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-violence.html

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35285968)

all respect has gone now. these events will flare up anytime they feel like it. and for any reason they choose.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35285961)

Which is exactly what the BBC are reporting.

UK Riots: trouble erupts in English cities

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35285991)

I don't think anyone is saying it's just the English that are doing this. But the problems are confined to England.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35285990)

if they subsequently walk away or get a slap on the wrist it'll only serve to prove that the risk/reward ratio is stacked up in favour of the lawbreakers.
This will do nothing to disuade these people from taking part in similar acts in the future.

Originally Posted by BBC Rolling News Feed

A 16-year-old looter from Manchester tells BBC 5 live he will continue participating in the violence and theft until he gets caught, because it is his first offence and nothing will happen.

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35285998)

True.
it'll work in the way that say one person is charged with smashing a shop window stealing hundreds of pounds worth of stuff and then setting fire to the place resulting in thousands of pounds worth of damage. getting a supervision order.

or at worst. insufficient evidence and no charges at all.

they have nothing to lose. the rewards outweigh the punishment to a lot of these people.

it's the same kind of thing where the more offences you commit in one go. you come better off than just commiting the one offence.

such as driving with no insurance, no MOT, no TAX, no licence. causing thousands of pounds worth of damage. nearly killing innocent people. and failing to stop for police.

in some cases you will get the same punishment as someone who has been stopped for driving with an illegal tyre and an expired tax disc.

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

I haven't been following this thread in detail, but feel it's time to add my bit.

It is one thing people saying the police aren't doing enough, one needs to look a lot deeper at society. The reality is that the **** are running around without fear of anything happening even if they suffer the misfortune of getting caught

At some stage society has to stop pandering to human rights namby pamby stuff and be prepared to lock people up for durations that make a real difference, not just offer petty slaps on the wrist community service, or meaningless fines that don't hurt these people in the first place because they haven't got money to pay them, and have so much free time because they don't do school, or are jobless. If that means jails are orvercrowded, tough, it's not supposed to be pleasant in there. So while we have the supposed party of law and order, conservatives, in charge with people like Kenneth Clarke then saying we need to cut sentences, the government in fact is creating the lax atmosphere leading to this situation.

One must also look at society's expectations of the police. On the one hand we want them to be robust. When they are inevitably you get all the complaints of human rights and stuff. One only has to look at the previous student protests when kettling was used. Society cannot have this both ways. If there are people out there intent on running amok then unfortunately all who are in the area will come under suspicion until proven otherwise.

One must also accept there are issues with how the legal system requires any one arrested to be dealt with. If a suspect is arrested then the officers involved will become involved with very time consuming custodial and evidence recording procedures. They won't be available to continue policing for many hours leaving their colleagues more thinly stretched. Is it any wonder therefore that sometimes the police in these situations didn't worry about the minor offences, especially if they are getting evidence they can use later in slow time, to wait for the most serious problems as they try and contain order.

People talk of using the army? I suggest not bringing them onto the streets, leave that to the police, but if there is now a problem with cell capacity, even in police stations or prisons, then use the army to create temporary holding areas, if need be putting the **** in tents. The could even be made to dig their own latrines.

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35286006)

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

I haven't been following this thread in detail, but feel it's time to add my bit.

It is one thing people saying the police aren't doing enough, one needs to look a lot deeper at society. The reality is that the **** are running around without fear of anything happening even if they suffer the misfortune of getting caught


At some stage society has to stop pandering to human rights namby pamby stuff and be prepared to lock people up for durations that make a real difference, not just offer petty slaps on the wrist community service, or meaningless fines that don't hurt these people in the first place because they haven't got money to pay them, and have so much free time because they don't do school, or are jobless. If that means jails are orvercrowded, tough, it's not supposed to be pleasant in there. So while we have the supposed party of law and order, conservatives, in charge with people like Kenneth Clarke then saying we need to cut sentences, the government in fact is creating the lax atmosphere leading to this situation.

One must also look at society's expectations of the police. On the one hand we want them to be robust. When they are inevitably you get all the complaints of human rights and stuff. One only has to look at the previous student protests when kettling was used. Society cannot have this both ways. If there are people out there intent on running amok then unfortunately all who are in the area will come under suspicion until proven otherwise.

One must also accept there are issues with how the legal system requires any one arrested to be dealt with. If a suspect is arrested then the officers involved will become involved with very time consuming custodial and evidence recording procedures. They won't be available to continue policing for many hours leaving their colleagues more thinly stretched. Is it any wonder therefore that sometimes the police in these situations didn't worry about the minor offences, especially if they are getting evidence they can use later in slow time, to wait for the most serious problems as they try and contain order.

People talk of using the army? I suggest not bringing them onto the streets, leave that to the police, but if there is now a problem with cell capacity, even in police stations or prisons, then use the army to create temporary holding areas, if need be putting the **** in tents. The could even be made to dig their own latrines.

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 35286001)

I haven't been following this thread in detail, but feel it's time to add my bit.

It is one thing people saying the police aren't doing enough, one needs to look a lot deeper at society. The reality is that the **** are running around without fear of anything happening even if they suffer the misfortune of getting caught


At some stage society has to stop pandering to human rights namby pamby stuff and be prepared to lock people up for durations that make a real difference, not just offer petty slaps on the wrist community service, or meaningless fines that don't hurt these people in the first place because they haven't got money to pay them, and have so much free time because they don't do school, or are jobless. If that means jails are orvercrowded, tough, it's not supposed to be pleasant in there. So while we have the supposed party of law and order, conservatives, in charge with people like Kenneth Clarke then saying we need to cut sentences, the government in fact is creating the lax atmosphere leading to this situation.

One must also look at society's expectations of the police. On the one hand we want them to be robust. When they are inevitably you get all the complaints of human rights and stuff. One only has to look at the previous student protests when kettling was used. Society cannot have this both ways. If there are people out there intent on running amok then unfortunately all who are in the area will come under suspicion until proven otherwise.

One must also accept there are issues with how the legal system requires any one arrested to be dealt with. If a suspect is arrested then the officers involved will become involved with very time consuming custodial and evidence recording procedures. They won't be available to continue policing for many hours leaving their colleagues more thinly stretched. Is it any wonder therefore that sometimes the police in these situations didn't worry about the minor offences, especially if they are getting evidence they can use later in slow time, to wait for the most serious problems as they try and contain order.

People talk of using the army? I suggest not bringing them onto the streets, leave that to the police, but if there is now a problem with cell capacity, even in police stations or prisons, then use the army to create temporary holding areas, if need be putting the **** in tents. The could even be made to dig their own latrines.

And finally, what is happening now is not about any sort of social statement, it's about opportunism and organised theft. An awful lot of the looting is co-ordinated. The fires and stuff are often a distraction to get the authorities into a different place whilst just down the road the real value target is emptied This was the case in Croydon where the Reeves furniture shop was torched while a nearby Comet was emptied.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35286008)

I've just ploughed my way through this thread and someone suggested water cannons with smart water. I'd be more direct: Water cannons loaded with indellible day-glo PINK dye*.

Firstly it'll wreak all their designer stuff and secondly the next day you can arrest anybody who has any trace of pink on them.

Demonstrating is legal, riot and looting are not and the full force of the law MUST be bought to bear on the ****. Riot carries upto a 10 year tarrif so let's see some exemplary scentencing. As for the lack of prison places they had a solution for that in WW2: Make the prisoners build their own prison camp.

*Non poisonous and eco friendly naturally.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35285992)

Or more accurately:

If we're rightly not going to tar the whole UK with this brush let's not tar the whole of England with it. Let's hope these riots don't spread to other parts of the UK but let's not pretend that if we don't get to grips with what's happening in parts of England that it won't eventually do so.

Originally Posted by Sasha222 (Post 35285529)

A 26-year-old man shot in a car during riots in Croydon has died in hospital

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35285573)

'Mark Duggan did not open fire at Police'

that's the last thing we need to hear at the moment.

Originally Posted by Tuftus (Post 35285853)

It lists the options open to the Police, tells us what a good idea they are and then tells us why we are too much of a pansie country to do it.

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35285955)

There has been no trouble anywhere in Wales, Scotland or N Ireland connected to it. These are indeed England's riots.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286024)

Don't know about you but I don't want my high street all pink for weeks/months so why not use Smartwater to mark the villains instead? ;)

Perhaps the makers could rename their product 'idiotwater' just for the purpose... :D

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286066)

My take on this is that this country will never be quite the same.
The hoodlums have discovered they have power in numbers, and they have the confidence to back it up.

Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35286081)

Well, it's not as if there isn't a history of rioting in this country is there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

I counted about 30 in England in the 20th and 21st Century. That's an average of one nearly every 3 years.

Originally Posted by MK1 (Post 35286098)

I don't know if this has been posted. Please do not watch if likely to offend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo

Originally Posted by danielf (Post 35286100)

It's only been posted four times before now. You're the fifth :erm:

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286086)

It's not really the same though. this has gone on for days now. and it's extending to other parts. simply because they've seen that nothing's being done.

hang on. Dave has said that he's managed to obtain a water cannon!

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35286104)

Nothing except

Metropolitan Police arresting 768 people
Manchester & Salford Police arresting 113 people
Liverpool Police arresting 50 people
Nottinghamshire Police arresting 90 people
West Midlands Police arresting 109 people
and an extra 10,000 Police on the streets of London

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35286029)

To call them 'UK riots' is inaccurate - that would imply the trouble is happening in other countries within the UK. It is not. The riots are (so far) happening in England only. To try to go one further and say it should be referred to as "certain parts of England" is nit-picking in the extreme, it would be like objecting to initially calling them the 'London Riots' as they were only occuring in 'parts of London'.

Had these riots been taking place in Swansea, Cardiff and Wrexham only the press would be rightly referring to them as 'Welsh riots' or 'Riots in Wales'. All we ask for is a little consistency.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35286106)

I still don't see how you can state "nothing is being done" when there were over 1200 arrests and 10,000 extra police on the streets.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286108)

Sorry, where did I say we should call them or this thread 'UK riots' or 'Parts of the UK riots'? I merely pointed out that they're so far restricted to parts of England but we shouldn't tar the whole of England with the same brush. I also expressed a hope that they wouldn't affect other parts of the UK but pointed out they very well could do as the same conditions exist across the UK. I don't see that as nitpicking or being pedantic.

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286109)

I heard that somewhere in Wales is part of it now, but not confirmed.

Originally Posted by MK1 (Post 35286101)

I don't have a spare few hours to look at every post in this thread which is already 49 pages long. I looked at the previous 5 pages but then realised there's another 44 to go.

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286109)

There could be a 1,000,000 police on the streets but.. ok you win. everything possible is being done.

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:15 ----------



I heard that somewhere in Wales is part of it now, but not confirmed.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35286121)

hyperbole and bolleaux

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35286121)

Once again, you deliberately distort what people state - I didn't say "everything possible was being done"

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286126)

Bolleaux. :dozey:

Originally Posted by MK1 (Post 35286101)

I don't have a spare few hours to look at every post in this thread which is already 49 pages long. I looked at the previous 5 pages but then realised there's another 44 to go.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35286106)

I still don't see how you can state "nothing is being done" when there were over 1200 arrests and 10,000 extra police on the streets.

ymmv

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35286129)

I don't get why people view threads with so few posts per page. You can set more posts per page via user cp>options. There is only 25 pages for me in this thread and I could set it so that is lower still, makes finding posts far more easier.

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286140)

I'm going to predict that tonight maybe. one of these riot kids is going to be killed or seriously injured by a member of the public defending themselves.

Originally Posted by thenry (Post 35286143)

Hes going to get grilled. His toyboy, side kick wont offer him too much support neither.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286114)

If that's true then that's sad news.

Just found this:



http://www.newswales.co.uk/?section=...y&F=1&id=22093

Sounds like relatively minor stuff right now thankfully.

Originally Posted by MK1 (Post 35286098)

I don't know if this has been posted. Please do not watch if likely to offend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gex_ya4-Oo

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35286172)

Reporting on Sky News ticker that they have arrested someone who took part in that mugging. I hope justice is sweet.

Couple of reports suggest that early arrests this week, of some the culprits involved in Monday nights riots have been charged and refused bail and referred to the crowm courts, sure looks like they are coming down heavy on these rioters. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35286165)

Isolated disturbances, not believed to be connected to to the England riots.

The thread at one point was named 'UK Riots' - that was inaccurate. A number of the newspapers and at one point Sky News were referring to it at 'Riots in the UK".

When things kick off in Belfast it's "trouble in Northern Ireland". When it happens in England it gets referred to as 'UK Riots'.Not the most significant factor in all this, just pointing out the usual inconsistencies.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286183)

If that bothers you so much then your time might be better spent pointing out these inconsistencies to those actually responsible for them rather than individual posters making a wider point about the rioting.

Is anyone here suggesting we immediately launch an 'Isolated disturbances, not believed to be connected to the England riots' thread to cover what's happend in Wales?

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286157)

Manchester police handing out justice to looters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1b74...embedded#at=70

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286200)

Still, should be interesting to see how it works.

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35286196)

Made my day :)

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286200)

Just heard a senior policeman on LBC stating that watercannon are only effective against fixed mobs, not running battles....

Still, should be interesting to see how it works.

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35286205)

I have watched water cannon hitting a crowd and have to admit it looks great and cheers you up when you have just been given grief for over an hour by the **** who are now getting a wash in freezing cold water.

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286202)

Well they can always use it to put fires out. just hope they remember to fill it up with water first.

the whole world will be in stitches otherwise :)

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286200)

Just heard a senior policeman on LBC stating that watercannon are only effective against fixed mobs, not running battles....

Still, should be interesting to see how it works.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286208)

Big fires start out as little ones so if watercannon are in situ at least there's a chance that they can snuff out some of the minor ones before they gather magnitude.

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286213)

They should have had watercannon in every city for exactly that purpose, even if not allowed to use it on people. Just think how much property could've been saved with a little forward thinking.
Politicians, forward thinking? Pah.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286219)

True. Short term budgets don't encourage long term thinking.

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35286206)

They should put ice-cubes in the water cannon and then fire it as there would be no evidence? So there would be no need for plastic bullets?

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286225)

Or, capsicum oleoresin (cheaper) or capsaicin - essence of red peppers.
Entirely non-lethal, and the main ingredient in pepper spray.
I have a bottle of capsicum oleoresin in my cupboard (circa 5 million scoville heat units). Its the essential oil of peppers (steam distilled oil from dried chillis). A few spoonfulls of that in a spray bottle = instant pepper spray.

A litre bottle per water cannon tank ought to do the trick. :)

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35286236)

A good idea, but I think that the ice-cubes would hurt and do more damage?

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286239)

Possibly, but between the ice-cubes jamming up the pump and the bleeding heart liberals, organically grownâ„¢ pepper extracted, biodegradable oleoresin might be a good bet too.

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:03 ----------

Also, a blind mob running into lamp poles and other obstacles would do some extra damage too.
The footage would be priceless.

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35286247)

http://m.mirror.co.uk/article?a=m4:23334652

Teacher charged with looting.........

What else can you say?

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35286247)

http://m.mirror.co.uk/article?a=m4:23334652

Teacher charged with looting.........

What else can you say?

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35286247)

http://m.mirror.co.uk/article?a=m4:23334652

Teacher charged with looting.........

What else can you say?

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35286251)

I do not want to see what he is teaching the kids and also glad that my kids do not go to the school where he is/was (as he will not have a job after this)

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286253)

Another **** caught on video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbVW...layer_embedded

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286259)

I have a much better idea - spray the blighters with Old Spice!

They'll stink for days and it'll destroy any street cred they may think they have... :D

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35286259)

I have a much better idea - spray the blighters with Old Spice!

They'll stink for days and it'll destroy any street cred they may think they have... :D

Originally Posted by thenry (Post 35286262)

I shouldn't be laughing but :LOL: :sniper:

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35286253)

From what I'm reading there's going to be a lot of trouble in Bham tonight because of the killing of the 3 Asian guys. there's supposed to be a blackberry message going around about it.

Originally Posted by gazzae (Post 35286261)

The word teacher isn't mentioned in that article. He could be a janitor or anything.

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35286270)

This is funny with him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdQCuc7CZo

Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35286270)

This is funny with him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdQCuc7CZo

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35286266)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14475741





:)

Originally Posted by Sparkle (Post 35286272)

Haha! Maybe he works at the "school of hard knocks"?