Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Surveillance cameras do not bother me as nowadays they are a fact of life, we may be the most watched country in the world but if you have nothing to hide then who really cares.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I believe the big difference between a motorcycle helmet and burkha is fear of the 'R' word.

A shop would have no problem asking a person wearing a motorcycle helmet to remove it, and the wearer will have no argument it he disagrees. The burkha wearer however has the racist card or 'I'm being persecuted' card to play.

I couldn't see the human rights or hand wringing brigade giving toss about a motorcyclist being asked to remove his helmet, but a burkha wearer would be a great cause for them to champion.

I always remove my helmet at the petrol station, even my flip front one. I believe it's a matter of courtesy.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

As I said I use a flip helmet, when I'm off the bike my face is fully visible ;)

What I am saying is that there are a lot of circumstances in which wearing a helmet just isn't suitable with a lot of them being in public areas.. I don't see any reason as to why there just couldn't be a blanket ban on covering up your full face in public unless you're following another law (for example riding a bike with a helmet) If the biker isn;t riding then I see no reason to leave the helmet on, though saying that a lot of couriers used to leave their helmet on in the rain purely to keep their heads dry ;)

There is though one hell of a difference between stepping out of your house and covering your face for the explicit reason of simple covering your face than there is in stepping out in a full face helmet with the intent of riding a bike within the current laws.. One is for protection, the other is for some archaic religious misinterpretation and I'm extremely suprised that you're comparing the two..

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It would appear that some muslims are turning away from the Bhurka aswell there seems to be a growing movement against the bhurka

sky link

and this makes interesting reading

link

the highlighted statement is what i find most interesting ,it seems to be the way forward to me rather than a goverment forced ban

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Countries like Syria, Tunisia and Turkey seem to have no problems imposing restrictions, so why should anywhere else?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I don't like the burkha but I think banning it totally would be wrong. It would make us as intolerant as the moslem states who lay down their own strict rules.

I agree with masque
What should happen , is that the full face of the woman should be revealed at all times in large public gatherings, stadiums, airports etc. You cannot personally identify someone if their face is covered. I'm thinking of the terrorist who escaped at an airport dressed up as a woman wearing a burha.

It's a delicate topic and alien to me but I've no problems with the sari, I think they are beautiful and a welcome addition to what is now worn in the UK .

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

i think it should be banned they have banned it in some places now and they should ban it here they walking down the street with there face hiden what if they went and attack some 1 the person wound not be able to say becouse the person cound't see his face and there no need for people to hide there faces

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

The police already have the powers to stop someone acting suspiciously and question them.
Knowing how yuck it is to put a helmet on over wet hair, why would you suggest it should be illegal for a biker to keep their helmet on in the rain while they're walking up the road to their destination?
Similarly on a cold windy day, why should it be illegal to protect your face with a scarf?
On halloween, why should it be illegal to go out unless you're showing your face?
Fancy dress party? Best not turn up in that gorilla suit!

---------- Post added at 22:52 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Seriously?
Do you think a bukha only covers the head?
Don't you realise how it restricts movement?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Are you seriously arguing that a person is incapable of attacking because a burkha restricts movement.

"it wasn't none of us your honour, we can't move in this thing!"

:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Burka ban ruled out by immigration minister

Damian Green said such a move would be “rather un-British” and run contrary to the conventions of a “tolerant and mutually respectful society”.


His comments will dismay the growing number of supporters of a ban. A YouGov survey last week found that 67 per cent of voters wanted the wearing of full-face veils to be made illegal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-minister.html

“tolerant and mutually respectful society”is ignoring 67% of the people considered respectfull

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Link

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

perhaps it should be taken to a national vote to see what the people want ,would that be a fair way to proceed ?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It wouldn't make any difference. if the whole of the country voted no for something they'd still do what they think is best for us.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

That's the main point here, there's a difference between practical and being forced. That's one aspect of why a lot of countries have brought in the rules and why the rules seem to have the "husbands forcing their wives to wear" clause inthem.

As far as my motorcycle comments if you actually read what I typed there are alternatives for motorcyclists such as flip helmets..

You seem to think it's a case of ONLY one rule to fit all so there's not much point in arguing with you especially when we motorcyclists or even a person in the cold does have other options unlike these burkha wearers..

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

by they i assume you mean the pc brigade who take it upon themselves to be outraged on our behalf and make decisions we are deemed incapable of making on our own .

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Our governmental system is representative democracy, not direct democracy (fyi ;)).

Be careful what you wish for, or we could end up like California, where the direct democracy movement (initiatives by ballot) vote for things that cost lots of money, then vote against allowing the money to be raised to pay for the things they voted for.....:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I think the PC brigade are only that way through fear of having any trouble if they were out on a dark night in the middle of a field with them.

they pull out their PC membership card and say look at all the things I've done for you. don't tell me I did them all for nothing! :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Who are "them"? (as in )

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Those that they in the middle of a field on a dark night have been all PC for.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If the bans were about protecting women from beign forced to wear then they would just be about that, but they are not.
The French ban is designed to ban the wearing of it by anyone even those who choose to wear it rather than just making it illegal to force someone to wear it.
For those women who believe that to adhere to their religion they must cover their faces the alternative is to not leave their home or break the law.

Who are you to say they are following their religion wrong?
It doesn't matter if the koran says nothing of the sort, their religion is their personal interpretation of Islam.

Why is it not wrong for you to force your view on Islam on a follower of it yet wrong for a fellow muslim to do the same?

As for flip up helmets they were out of my price range of myself and the other bikers I knew with the exception of my uncle, and there is the concern of the face popping open in an accident. So no, they are not an alternative for many bikers.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You are making as much sense as usual.

Synergistic xenophobia and cognitive distortion - the outcomes are as amusing as they are unsurprising.:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

ie them simples :erm:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If it helps, your question didn't make sense at all :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No not in my opinion it wouldn't be, perhaps there is a reason why London is the most tolerant, like they see them all the time unlike quite a few other people in the country who have never seen one in the 'flesh' but are nevertheless horrified by the prospect of them.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

:clap:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

yes there is a reason
Islam is London's largest and most significant minority religion. There were 607,083 Muslims reported in the 2001 census in the Greater London area.[1] Most Muslims are concentrated in the east London boroughs of Newham, Tower Hamlets and Waltham Forest. In England, 40% of Muslims live in London, where they make up 8.5% of the population.

which would explain the tolerance of the burkha

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_London

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Err no it wouldn't, 7-8 million people live in London and not all Muslims are in favour of them I'd imagine.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Don't be silly - obviously "they" are all the same, just like all Christians agree on everything......:rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Unlike the others who take it upon themselves to point out on our behalf at every opportunity how different Muslims are and how much they are taking over even though they are still a minority.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Are you really sure you want to be on my side of the argument Gary?

Statements like the above appear to show you want the burhka banned because of pure ignorance and fear.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No it doesn't. it's not about the burkha even. it was about there being a possibility that some people are only PC through fear. like a senile judge that gives lenient sentences through fear that the chavs might find his house in the middle of nowhere. hidden away from reality.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

But most of us work on probability, not possibility........

It's possible that you are not a xenophobic sophist who caveats his postings with "ifs" and "mights" and "maybes", but is it probable?;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I do probabilities.

about as probable as you being a care in the community case, with a fetish for all things red ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

We aren't talking about your visits to Ladbrokes, we're talking about your posts on CF, which seem to reflect (remote) possibilities rather than probabilities.
Green, actually, and it's more of an affection than a fetish....:D

Anyhoo, I would have thought that you, of all people, would have been a avid supporter of deinstitutionalisation......;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10684359

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

:clap: well done that minister - about time our countries ministers grew some and banned the burka

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

tbf, the Syrian ban is only on campuses, not nationwide.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Is this woman in her right mind?? I thought my lot were gutless in power when it came to this monstrosity, but now we have a Tory woman minister claiming that "the burhka can be empowering", has she flipped.?:mad:
Having been to Afghanistan she understands how "the burhka can confer dignity", I'm sure all those Afghan women feel very dignified being made to wear a mobile tent every single time they want to leave their homes. I can't find the words that would be acceptable on this forum to adequately describe my utter contempt and disdain for this stupid misguided women.:mad:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/7897...mpowering.html

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

:clap: the mind just boggles --- "the burhka can be empowering"
the woman's mad :td:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

what places are they banned in? i did hear france was 1 of them.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Muslim Disneyland employee outraged after she's told she 'cannot wear her hijab to work'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz0x4GCsxvf



Muslim woman who hasn't shown her face in public for 18 years ordered to remove veil to give evidence in Australian court

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz0x4JcIX7q

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I was going to post that one.
they need to see her facial expressions. a lot easier than watching the eyes to tell whether she's grinning.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

And here's the bits the Mail "forgot" to mention.....

Adelaide Now

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

"Tasneem only removes the niqab when she visits the doctor, dentist, airport Customs and when she has her driver's licence photo taken."

and now when in court ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Yup - not a problem for her to do so when requested by the appropriate authorities, but the Mail "forgot" to mention that.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

How often does she have her driver's licence photo took?

Goes without saying really.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Pity you don't..........:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

So before the case started, someone must have been given the impression that she would not remove it. There was obviously a discussion in court as both sides in the case had this impression, and the Judge had to rule on the issue.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I put it to you that that is an assumption on your part, and suggest that unless you have evidence to support that assumption, that statement is not admissable nor verifiable, and should be struck from the record.*


*doing my best legal eagle bolleaux, as relayed to me by my senior CPS friend. :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

But he is right though. isn't he :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

He would be right if the facts support his assumption - those facts have not been made available, therefore that assumption hasn't been proven.....;)

(but he probably is....:D).

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

As I reported in the quoted section, both the defence and prosecution were under the impression that she would keep her face covered in court, hence the discussion in court. The prosecution would have spoken to her beforehand and as she worked for the defendant, they would have known what she was likely to do. They were no indications that she had actually already given evidence with her face covered up. If she had already given evidence without her face being covered up, there wouldn't have been the discussion in court, as it wasn't about the the court forcing her to keep her face covered. If she had already given evidence, then at the time she would have been politely asked to uncover her face, and if, as it is claimed she would have been ok with that, then again there wouldn't have been the discussion in court.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Agreed - but the point I was making (and my apologies if I wasn't clear about it) was that the story in reality was - Woman in Australia who wears burqa is asked to remove veil when she is giving evidence, and she says "Yes". Which really, when you think about it, isn't much of a story (except showing a Muslim woman in a positive light by highlighting the fact she was willing to remove her veil in court when requested).

The Mail "forgot" to report the bit about "she says "Yes"", hoping (imho) to arouse resentment about those different from us who refuse to follow "our rules", even though she was folowing "our rules" om this case; they (the Daily Mail) just didn't think telling all of the story (or as we call it, the truth) was important.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Before the trial she hadn't said that she would uncover her face. It was only after the trial had started and the issue was raised that she said that she would abide by the judge's decision. Did the Mail pick up the story before the witness spoke about it?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It was reported on the 19th in both newspapers (as the ruling happened that day), and the Adelaide Now paper stated that the lady was not in court to hear the decision but has said previously she would comply with the court decision; aligned with the fact that the Daily Mail reports uses most of the same wording as the Oz reports, remembering that Adelaide is about 12 hours ahead of UK time, I believe your premise (imho) is unlikely.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Seeing as the above are the "only" time she removes her face veil, I'd have thought that romantic evenings with her husband must be a little anonymous to say the least, especially when its bedtime.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

it seems she takes it off when she's told to ,and is probably wearing it because she was told to by her owner [er husband] ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

From the Adelaide Now link

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

France's Senate backs National Assembly and bans women from wearing the burka in public

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz0zZsGiLWf

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

So? that's France and the last time I looked we aren't France..;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

its only 20 miles away - and its only information about the march of the ban which seems to be gaining momentum .;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I still don't see it's relevance.It's not a case of us doing what France does..It's more a case of us doing what the US does..;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

With all due respect, the law in question is clearly targeting an ethnic minority (even though it avoids words such as "muslim", "woman" and "burkha"). This is from the same country that wants to treat another ethnic minority (Roma, aka gypsies) with equal disdain.

It wasn't long ago that "ethnic cleansing" occured in a region of Europe formerly known as Yugoslavia, and before that in Germany.

Surely part of being in Europe means that we have some say in matters such as this. Or are you suggesting these events only become relevant when they happen on British soil?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

:confused::confused:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I'm saying that we don't always do what France does for damned good reasons,that we are a democracy and despite all efforts we still are.:)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

We can pretend they're not happening.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Well many do.

Funny though that the ant Muslim groups want to embrace what Europe is doing when normally they don't want to be told what to do by the European government in Brussels.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Some may and some may not. it's the fact that it's happened. you don't have to be anti or pro anything, to see that it's a major thing. regardless of it being France that has done it.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I can see trouble ahead for France over it's present attitudes and actions towards the Roma and the treatment meted out to them from the rest of Europe.So I think that they may have to rethink this one..

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

i think it will soon be barred in a lot more places soon

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Where - nudist beaches and saunas, perhaps?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

lol no i mean in country's

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

IMHO France has one redeming feature, Calais (1 of the many exits out of the country :D)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

A BID to ban the burkha in Britain was effectively buried in red tape in the Commons yesterday.
But last night the Tory MP who tried to bring in the controversial new law vowed to carry on his campaign.
Philip Hollobone’s Bill to prevent the Muslim veils from being worn in public could not be discussed yesterday when time ran out in what some *believe was a ploy by Commons business managers to avoid controversy.


Read more: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...#ixzz178HNYg5q

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It just goes to show you how pathetic this government is, they haven't got the bottle to agree with what the public want, and what makes matters worse is that our secruity stands for nothing, if people cannot see there face, then could could they be.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

'What some believe' ... who, exactly? Daily Express news editors with an agenda?

This was a private members' bill, and it went the way almost all private members bills do. They are doomed to fail unless they are granted more time in the Commons. Most of them don't get that luxury. There's no conspiracy here.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Hooray for you Arthur.

I admire your championing of UK "secruity" (whatever that is) and your ongoing campaign for the right of illiterate racist xenophobes to post irrational nonsense on Cable Forum.

I'm sure there glad of your support.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Presumably the previous government weren't liable for the same criticism of their 'secruity' , even though the oppression of female muslims didn't change when our new leaders took up their positions?

Hoping for perspective that transcends the labels of party politics is still in vain, it seems ....

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Interesting quote from the French.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

tbf, at the same time (October) he also said

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Twaddle. British women have been voting since 1918, whereas French women didn't get the right to vote until 1944.

Even Borat's beloved Kazakhstan has had women's suffrage since 1924.

http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/suffrage.htm

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I agree - I was pointing out the irony of his statement(s)....

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I suspect the French laud Joan of Arc because she got one over the English rather than because she was a woman.

---------- Post added at 15:39 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Erm, the previous *two* Labour governments also allowed wearing of the Bhurka.

Of course, we can't allow that little fact to get in the way of a good chance to criticise the Tories, can we?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

The "quote" button did not carry the "quote" - so I can see how the misunderstanding arose. A thousand apologies. :angel:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

British Muslims arrested in burka ban protest in France


Tensions are running high in France because of the law, which comes into force on Monday, banning all women from wearing Islamic face veils.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1J6WjRyQH

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If they're so intent on living under Sharia law, then why don't they go and live in a country that already uses it instead of suffering in a country that doesn't, and never will?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

As much as I disagree in principle with a ban on the burkha, you've got to love the French. If it's not in France's best interest then they simply don't give a flying frog.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If you are so intent on living in a society that tells women what items of clothing they can and can't wear, then why don't you go and live in a country that has these rules instead of suffering in a country that doesn't, and never will? ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I think you're misunderstanding what their gripe is ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Assuming that the mails article is accurate,i think going to another country demanding that Sharia law be introduced is outrageous As Gary sais if they want to live under Sharia law then go to a country that already has it

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Providing it has a generous benefits systems too of course!

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

That's a thought. can't we do what we do with the Polish. send the money over to them?

they get both Sharia law and the money.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

don't put ideas into their heads Gary :nono::bsmack:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

:clap:

Nail and head springs to mind

I think that only happens in the EU. One of the reason to tell the EU to sod off.

As if the EU would enforce a law onto a member country without any consideration of the electorate of that country :LOL:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It would appear that Anjem Choudary has been permanently banned from france ...and he's outraged:D

sometimes you just gotta love the french :D

sky link

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Let's hope he tries to sneak in and gets caught...

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I don't blame the French at all, what country in their right mind would want this cancerous carbuncle inciting their populous with his extremist views.
Good decision France.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Well said :tu:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Unfortunately we can't follow Frances example and hoof this odious man out of the country .In my opinion he is a very incidious example of the bad side of the muslim faith and does the good side ,the majority ,no good at all