Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

If there's one term that I hate when asking a question then it has to be 'Google is your friend'. To me it's the most patronising and condescending and ultimately worthless saying going. Defeats the whole object of joining a forum if that's the kind of reply you get.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Sorry but thats rubbish. I get 99% of my information from a simple google search. Why some cannot master that is beyond me. What is more annoying is people NOT using any form of search and instead expecting others to spoon feed them the info.

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 ----------

Try this thread or put Deep Packet Inspection into google and search on that

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/63...you-phorm.html

hope that helps

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Well that's good for you, why not answer every question with that same pointless reply, after all if we all did that then there won't be much info on this forum at all.

I like to click on a thread, read through it and see posters asking relevant questions and then read and answers/replies instead of 'Google is your friend'. If you don't want to answer, then don't reply. Not too much to ask for on a info based forum.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Try googling 'cview'

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Today will be an interesting day.....

....those emails were.... well... enlightening

any of you who (foolishly) paid may well find that your name, address, creditcard details (oh and the title you were accused of) are now all over the net.

Now that is a very serious data protection breach

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

As curious as I am, I ain't touching that torrent. ACS will no doubt be serving papers to people who downloaded it sooner or later.

Is there a web version I can access via tor anywhere?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

several...

try googling!

...oh and i think you will find acs have bigger problems today, tomorrow, etc

Hunter became the hunted, pay back
 

Following threads on ASC harassing internet users, I am delighted to come across this piece of news today:

ACS:Law could face £500,000 fine for porn list leak


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11418970

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Ouch :erm:

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

That sounds a bit sensationalist. The information commissioner has the power to levy fines up to £500,000 if a company is found to have flouted the laws. It seems unlikely ACS would face a fine of that magnitude for spilling information as the result of a third party attack.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Danielf wrote....

"That sounds a bit sensationalist. The information commissioner has the power to levy fines up to £500,000 if a company is found to have flouted the laws. It seems unlikely ACS would face a fine of that magnitude for spilling information as the result of a third party attack."

However...

The ICO has recently aquired a much bigger set of teeth and quite swinging legal powers to allow them to be used...

Slyck currently has a poster claiming that ACS are currently serving teas and biscuits to the boys in blue, who have ...errr ...popped in for a chat. These claims are as yet unsubstantiated but entirely plausable.

Remember this leak was the fault of ACS, nothing was hacked or stolen. Following the attack which crashed their site they attempted to "re-start" their site with this information posted for all to see (and indeed copy) So ACS did in actual fact put all this info in the public domain all by themselves

This is not the point however,

The point is the way ACS chose to flagrantly ignore all sensible precautions and protocol with regard to the personal data it controls.
....It will be this action that even Andrew will struggle to "wriggle out of"

Amusingly and very seriously (for him) his flippancy and arrogance will also undermine his position with the SRA, scare the poo out of his barrister, light Debora Princes blue touch paper, Ought to cause his Prof Indem cover to be pulled, etc etc etc

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Here are a few prank calls that have been made to Andrew Crossley.
http://soundcloud.com/kan3

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

At least now ACS can't use the fear of outing people for downloading porn to extort money..

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Are these not people who have settled (or refused to settle)?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

both, the emails also include "pleading letters" also in house emails taking the p out of clients who threaten suicide etc etc

....its not pretty at all

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

It's like the cheque scam from "Lock Stock and two smoking barrels"

They has chosen the title of the films deliberately into shaming people to pay..

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

What infuriated me was the number of inhouse mails which confirm that the account holder cannot be held liable/is not responsible for any infringements....

then looking at the list there are dozens of females being accused of downloading granny pron :rolleyes:

help me out here..... how does that work??? (no not granny pron)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Erm, not all women are attracted to men........

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

.....have you seen how many on that list are female????

whilst a potentialy correct answer I think it rather deflects the point I am trying to make ;)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

No, because I haven't read the list, and you originally stated "dozens" (which was out of thousands of names).....;)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Hmmm...

seems there may be a new player!

at least on eposter on slyck claims to have recieved a letter from "goldeneye international"

....same business model - talk about getting on the train after its crashed

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I don't think this has been posted yet but if it has my apologies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11434809

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

when there is the type of money involved that these shysters are blackmailing people out of, You can expect them to use processes that have not been publicly shown to work 100% if it means they get there blood money even from those that they know are possibly Innocent. There are emails showing that ACS law had information that showed some of the users they were demanding money from might be innocent but they continued to press for there blood money. Its nice to see that at last they are being questioned by the isp's

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

To be clear..no letter

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Which sorry to say won't do much... When ACS come knocking with a court order then the ISP's have to capitulate and provide the info when the fee for doing so has been paid..

It's the courts that need to take notice and ask for definitive proof before offering such a warrant

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Although if Sky & PlusNet now say that they will start challenging the NPO requests in court, ACS & co. may not even bother going after them... That's the case with TalkTalk, TalkTalk has said it will challenge any request for an NPO, & consequently it's always left out...(perhaps these law firms don't want their methods scrutinised ;) )

[previously, ISPs have always capitulated when the law firms have gone to court for an NPO]

http://www.talktalkblog.co.uk/2010/0...ection-breach/

http://torrentfreak.com/judge-warns-...emands-100922/



------------------

EDIT:

This is interesting, regarding the "£16,000 damages" DL won in 2008 :D

"High-Profile, High Damages File-Sharing ‘Conviction’ Was a Farce"

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

How do we know? From the emails that ACS:Law accidentally published on their website last week, of course.

That's poor on soooo many levels...

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

...plenty of people attempted to verify tha "barwinska" case, even going to the trouble of attempting to obtain a transcript of the case, favours with court contacts were called in etc (all documented on various sites over last 3 years)
....eventually it was determined that it was an uncontested case, no transcript was ever typed up, and that the "damages" requested went through un-opposed.
I should also add that no such person has ever been traced on electoral rolls or indeed any other searchable database.
cynics have suggested that the whole case was "manufactured" and the leaked emails certainly at the very least call the case a "farce"
Given the "evidence" we have also seen in the leaked emails I would venture an educated guess that all the law firms involved in the business model, are well aware that court is the last place they want to be we suspected it (the evidence) was flimsy but they even told their monitoring service not to bother with indepth testing and that if an IP address appears for at least a second then that was good enough for them!!!)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

A QUOTE FROM V.M

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articl...ata-breach.htm

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

So far this whole business model has relied on NPO applications going un opposed by the various ISP`s. To be fair they had the wool pulled over their eyes somewhat by assurances that the evidence against "infringers" was impeachable (need a flying pig smylie here),

however,

Once you begin to understand how this whole thing has worked so far, opposing an NPO application is simple....

ACS have openly stated in emails that capturing any IP address connected for at least a second "is good enough for us".
They were not interested in a more thorough observation of said IP address.

So....

Virgin merely need to question the authenticity of the "capture" process and further question what "checks" were made. From what we have seen (and always suspected) ACS wont have an answer and the application will fail.

....Actually if virgin were to actually turn up in court, ACS would probrably withdraw the action anyway, for fear of any sort of question being asked.

From what I can see around the various boards, all ISP`s are currently coming under severe pressure (from their customers) to actually attend court and ask questions.

....maybe the "stone" has finally started to "roll down the hill"?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I don't know too much about this but its been all over the news over the last couple of days. Wouldn't the DEA force isps to hand over the information regardless of how it was gathered isn't that the idea?

Not sure if this is a stupid question.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I think you are getting mixed up between the digital britain debacle and what we are discussing above, which is (in the main so far) "civil law" - or rather an "implied threat" of civil law.
The above "model" is relatively simple...
1/ plant and seed selected torrents
2/ observe and record all IP addressses connected
3/ go to court, apply for an NPO which forces ISP to hand over account holders details
4/ send very aggressive letters to account holder, threatening eternal damnation if "demanded" sum of money not paid
5/ repeat endlessly...

A very clever and simple money making scheme dressed up as "infringement"

I am sure I do not need to point out that with such a simple "plan" many many corners have been cut evidentially, but hey ho people pay up anyway..

...well maybe not for much longer ;)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

No ISP will give details without a court order and if they did then they are in breach of the DPA.. All of ACS's requests have been through a court order

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I've only been looking into this for a short time after finding this forum and looking through the threads so I might have gotten things mixed up. Great site by the way.

I thought that the digital economy act or digital britain act not sure if there is a difference would force isps to hand over this sort of information so that if a rights holder wants to go to court and get a order the isp would be forced to go along with it or face consequences like fines or something. I also couldn't see how an isp could support say someone like the bpi but then say no to someone else surely they would be able to argue that they were trying to protect their rights to and were not being allowed to do so. From what I've read people will get warnings first under the new laws but that rights holders don't have to do that.

From what I've read its all about the court orders being granted in the first place but it would be strange to me that you would have grounds to contest one in the case of acs but not contest another by the bpi. I can imagine the bpi process to be more robust but is there any controls being set up as guide lines for other companies and would they be forced to reveal there methods?

I suppose if it all about the money then they will go after the isps which don't put up a fight but as more and more isps might start to do this with acs and their clients they might have to to go up against one of the isps who refuse such as talk talk or virgin.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

When you look at it, It's such a simple system they have to extract large amounts of money by legal blackmail. However what shocks me the most is that those that act as the governing body of these so called law firms don't want to do any thing about these conman giving them a bad name.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Woah there - that's quite a big claim, any proof?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

@ "Ytrewq" - You are still confusing two completely different scenarios

Firstly ACS...

...the big difference is that ACS et al are doing this on mass, their evidence and grounds for the NPO are tenuous at best, they have been sucsessfully granted so far because no one has asked questions, the ISP`s have on mass taken their fees and turned over the requested info...
and most importantly of all - they do not care if you are guilty or not, they have your address and they WILL hound you for money. Their actions dop not really tally up with their message of "we are protecting our clients interests", in reality it is more like "money, money, money"

Secondly, Digital Britain...

...ignoring the fact that this was rushed and ill thought out, you are correct, it does indeed lay down a "recomended" proceedure for dealing with this area. Amongst other things an infringer is supposed to be repeatedly warned about their "activities" (3 times I think) only then should "legal action" be considered and again from what I understand an NPO will not be required to gain account holders info from the ISP. My knowledge of the precise mechanics of this new act is decidely shaky so please forgive any inaccuracies!!!!

Clearly this will NOT result in huge quantities of cash being generated

If you are interested in this area could I suggest you start at page 1 of this thread, there is also a 440 odd page thread over on slyck forums, etc

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

...plenty, do some googling!!!

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

@lymmranger

Thanks for the info I'll take a look at the other thread. I didn't even know any of this was going on.

I did look into the digital britain thing and I seven somewhere that the isp will provide an anonymous list to any copyright owner who asks but they will still need a court order to have the names and addresses revealed.

I think that is right but I might be wrong. I suppose the difference in this situation is that while there is likely to be lots of letters educating users I would imagine that the court orders would only be for relatively small numbers and even then they might get one more chance.

It is a shame after seeing how these companies operate that the 3 strikes approach wasn't compulsory but then again that's not were the money is.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

And those couple of words sums up what these so called lawyers are after. They need to supplement there no win no fee business. Anyone that thinks this is about redress for the rights owners is mistaken

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Thank you Sirius...

....you managed in a short sentence everything I have been rather badly explaining over my last few posts
Thanks for providing the link too - I was a bit nervous of doing that in case Kymmy shouted at me (winks at kymmy)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

You see its correct that the rights owners don't get ripped off and they should be paid for there work. However is it right to start chasing people for money in what is a type of legalised blackmail using dubious data collection systems that has and i may be wrong here never been fully challenged in a court of law ???.

We really do need an isp to go to court and get acs law and the rest of there ilk to produce there evidence to independent experts

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Agreed...

having seen all the pertinant "leaked" email traffic, the "evidence" will never get near a court, everyone speculated on the methodology behind it, (- remember the revelation that a certain Mr Tsang was on various forums looking for someone to custom write him some monitoring software)

according to some of ACS email traffic even they do not think much of it!!!

there is an old saying - "you cannot polish a t**d" - they (ACS) are attempting to gold plate it!!!

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

:LOL:

To be honest my PERSONAL feelings on this are that the reason those in the know on this have been trying to get DPI involved is that they KNOW the evidence would not hold up in a real court. They need DPI to be able to go in front of a judge and win.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Yup. Although as mentioned, they only seem to obtain these NPOs because they go unchallenged (other than by e.g. TalkTalk, who consequently gets left out of the NPO).

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Talking about DPI - here is one outfit (advertising that it uses DPI for this purpose) to look out for that has already been involved in the ACS story.
http://ng3sys.com/products.jsp
run by Alireza Torabi who has apparently provided harvested IP data to Andrew Crossley of ACS in the past.

There is a long and complicated story involving him, Andrew Crossley, Terence Tsang, and a variety of legal firms who are queuing up to get on the "speculative invoicing" gravy train while it is still on the rails (derailment due when Digital Economy Act provisions come in, if they do).

All out there now in the ACS email trail apparently.

Tomorrow is the key day to see what happens to the Gallant Macmillan NPO hearing before Chief Master Weingarten.
Will Plusnet be legally represented?
What will the judge say and do (the case has already been adjourned once, and PlusNet are rather late with their objections)?
When will Gallant Macmillan's website get back on line (disappeared about midday today having been slated for a DDOS attack by 4chan)?
When will the various civil actions start against the ISPs who definitely released unencrypted data to ACS, and against ACS who allegedly sent all sorts of details in emails including unencrypted credit card details linked to names, addresses and IP addresses?
What criminal DPA prosecutions will result?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Not sure why they would need dpi in their capacity as data harvester as they already monitor the files in question surely you would only need dpi if you weren't sure what the traffic was, like in the case of an isp like virgin.

Does that make sense?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Todays breaking news is........

The NPO application heard today has been adjourned until Jan 2011

poor Ministry of Sound....

so no nasty letters on your behalf then you will just have to rely on actually selling your work!

Ahhh! I forgot something seems to have happened to your website

...whats plan C then????????????????

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Love it when the masses have an uprising!

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11467347

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Thanks for the link.
Let's hope BT also have a moratorium on sending their customers' names and addresses and IP addresses in their thousands, out to law firms, by email, in unencrypted format, whch they have admitted that they did. Presumably the ICO has already made that clear to them?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

There's three seperate issues here

1# BT's sending of personal data unencrypted (so a privacy issue)
2# ACS's requests to a court requesting details of account holders based on IP/DATE/TIME
3# ACS's questionable practice on obtaining said IPs and the legitamacy/accuracy of the IPs

I'd rather the ISPs' all join up and fight #3 in the courts as that would stop them dead in the water and #1 and #2 simply would cease being an issue..

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

The problem is, until now most ISPs have been happy to supply ACS with the details they require because they can charge an administrative fee for doing so (and because contesting the requests at court would cost them money). They are only beginning to turn against the idea because of the potential for reputational damage in the wake of the ACS data leak.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

There's a thoughtful and very useful legal summary of the flaws in the evidence gathering model, here:
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...thkey=CL3JpeIE
or
http://tinyurl.com/2vnvp6r

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

The lawyers involved in this dubious business model hopefully will lose there first case in court and will then have to stop this legalised blackmail.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I'll drink to that!

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Some updates - BT have now deleted most of the requested IP records that MoS were looking for, and MoS are dropping their NPO naming BT - see articles below.

http://www.responsesource.com/releas...hp?relid=60424

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...=&oq=&gs_rfai=
(be quick, the original has come down)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...filesharing-bt

http://www.slyck.com/story2115_BT_De...f_Sound_****ed

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

That last link is never going to work if it has a sweary word in it. It will get filtered. ;)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

It just gets better and better :)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Try this instead
http://tinyurl.com/386estt

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I was looking at the thread over on slyck and there is some debate over records required for data retention laws and operational ip logs from a radius server (i think that is the name), it was said that this was how BT was able to delete logs aster 90 days despite data retention laws suggesting a longer timescale and that the records required for data retention are more for serious crime and not civil.

Does anyone here know if that is the case and the timescales involved for other isps like virgin etc.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

This is being discussed in great detail in the very place you mention, it would appear that "legally" certain information has to be kept.
BUT....
The info required to identify an account holder does not (i.e. info of interest to ACS etc). It would also appear that each ISP has a slightly different privacy policy and has different views on how long it decides to keep logs for

I find it quite confusing, but reckon it does add to the argument that what little evidence they hold against you is seriously flawed

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Agreed, the question was asked about the ISPs who started to contest but were in posession of information, ie TalkTalk and Virgin as to if they had to hold onto that information or if they could destroy it once they were dropped from the court order and wondered what peoples thoughts were on the subject.

Someone asked if we could start to see TalkTalk or Virgin Media customers from a long time ago being contacted through previosly supplied ACS lists if either of these companies were forced into a change of heart or decided to consent in future.

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 ----------

Possable update.

From a post on Slyck

Initial post regarding new company made around the end of June this year,

So we have ACS making a new firm called Larper Limited, linked to an IT company whos director worked for Davenport Lyons and who is linked to a previous data controller NG3Systems.

I'm sure it is just a coincidence I wonder if this would be a way for Andy to dodge the SDT maybe working in a 'consultancy' role and passing information from ACS to Larper if he was shutdown saying that he had a responsability to his clients??? If that is the case then it is surely making a mockery of the whole SDT process.

Essentially if he is struck off offering is work to 'another firm' and starting again. I wonder if this was him forward planning

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Thats extremely suspicious of you Ytrewg - I am shocked!

As if our slippery "friend" would dare stoop so low

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I think the new company should have been called leper ltd.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

:):):)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

For a long time it was said that the new breed of Hang um high and lets makes lots of money copyright firms were using evidence they knew was incorrect, Well it looks like those accused by the money grabbing gits were not the only ones thinking that.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11...ort_lyons_sra/

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Isn`t that extortion or demanding money with menace?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Depends which side of the Law fence you are i suppose.

To quote that page

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

This is encouraging.....



......but I suspect we will be disapointed


............AGAIN! :rolleyes:

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

so not only was he naive/gullible in goading 4chan, he seems to have a certain level of stupidity as well.


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...-miserably.ars

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...to-court.shtml

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Ha, that is awesome. They couldn't even get a default judgement :D

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

well if i read it right, there were a couple who were defaulted.........but the judge didn't give anything and basically told acs to twaddle off nicely :D

:rofl:

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

:P

---------- Post added at 21:49 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

You just get viruses from downloading- how idiotic!!!, agree?

erm i suppose that there are more viruses in game downloads though ...

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I have been following this debacle for over 3 years.....

I still think that the slippery little shyster has more bullets left to fire....

.....remember once you have trodden in it, it can be very difficult to get it off your shoes, even if it is gold plated

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

And the latest failure........:D
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12...aw_court_fail/

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Pity it's only County Court level so not legally binding for other cases but the Judge brought up some great points

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Theres actually a more up to date ruling in this weeks micro mart but i can`t find a link to it.:shrug:

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

i dont see why the innocent users have to suffer from bandwidth loss just because some thieving git decides to get through their content illegally. instead of traffic management they could just throttle the illegal downloaders? well of course if there was better evidence.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

thieving gits use up bandwidth of other users

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I am new to this forum,

it all those thieving gits who have to cause us a bandwidth loss. traffic management should apply to illegal downloaders. no limit on legal downloaders. agree? (of course evidence should improve).

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Excellent call from Judge Birss.

Though he didn't say it was binding merely uttering the doubt of the legality of the case in court is a reference point for other cases before the law is clarified or changed.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

DEA will be in force next year (or later) =D

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I honestly feel that these so called ACS law lawyers will not be around in 6 months time.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

I can tell

Care to tell us how you would decided which is a legal download and which is not.


:rofl:

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

context; are you confused? (not trying to be rude)

how can you tell that I am new to this forum?

---------- Post added at 20:15 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

what does rofl mean?

---------- Post added at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:15 ----------

oh lol why you rolling on the floor laughing?

---------- Post added at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:16 ----------

just hope they find a way no innocent are accused

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

whats so funny? you tell from contxt ? why you rolling on the floor laughing? lol

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

hi

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

"iamsooocool" - hmmm

....Poor choice of username given that your comments show an extremely naive knowledge of.....

well...

everything!

I suggest you start at page 1 on here and then follow all the links you come across such as slyk etc - you may then begin to understand why this topic creates such emotion

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Well said.

I did the rolling on the floor bit because if i had put what i wanted to i would be on a ban just like Iamsooocool :)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Happy new year Sirius

...and it may just be one too ;)

I "note" from other places that this charade may finally end....

just to note a few points...

we seem to have gained a "knowledgeable" judge....
the "evidence" has been "torn to pieces"
the SRA are close to a decision
the ICO will have to get off the fence
a certain major ISP is about to incur the wrath of Privacy International
there are finally other law firms willing to have a pop at ACS et al

....oh and its stopped snowing

:D:D:D

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

:clap:
Let's hope you are proved correct. :)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Oh dear...

its not going too well in court....

all of the "27" recieved letters saying their cases were being discontinued - some as late as Saturday

luckily they still turned up (or rather their representatives did)

Fat Andy however did not

ACS/Mediacat `s Brief stated "we want to discontinue...

Judge said no way hose

the representative`s of the "27" have asked/demanded a "wasted" costs of "sky high" proportions and it looks like they will get it too

Judge has said only the court can allow a discontinuance and insisted on a new hearing where Andy will HAVE to attend. Looks like judge will also insist on ALL parties to the claim attending

re convenes at 2pm i.e. 11minutes ago

looking good guys n gals :D

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

:rofl:

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

Linkage?

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

.....most updated news is as ever on "slyck"

current/last page "http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=44092&p=568647#p568647"

there are a number of "regulars" attending today

I expect "enigmax" will soon be posting yet another article on torrentfreak before the day is out.
BBC were/are there as are several papers...

he will have to wriggle bloody hard this time....

Mind his brief claimed he suffered a family accident over the weekend - maybe he has had yet another stroke and gone blind again???

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

blatantly cut and pasted from "slyck"

.......enjoy!!!!!!!!!!

Report this postReply with quote Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion
by steveh » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:11 am

Bit more of an update. I was there this morning but not able to make this afternoon's session - which primarily is for the counsels for MediaCat, Lawdit and Rali to agree a date with the judge on when this case should resume. Judge wants it within a week although MediaCats barrister - Tim Ludbrooke (sp?) would like a bit longer.

There were 3 counsel there - 1 for MediaCat, and 1 each for Rali's defendants (I think 4 of them) and Lawdits defendants (I think 5). Only one other non-represented defendant was in court and one other had written in a defence. The court had not heard from the rest of the defendants.

There were solicitors from Lawdit and Rali there, but noticeable was the absence from any solicitors for MediaCAT - the counsel just had an admin/paralegal with him.

Judge informed court that all cases had been served notice of discontinuance - 26 sent last Thursday and 1 where defendant was going to settle but they have now decided to send notice of discontinuance - therefore all 27 cases discontinued.

MediaCAT's counsel stated that on the basis of his Honours observation from previous hearing and faced with wholesale amendment to deal with the difficulties alterted by the court that they should discontinue these cases. Judge did comment that there is possibility of them reissusing new claims rather than trying to amend the existing ones. MediaCAT stated that they will pay all reasonable costs.

The court had received letters from a defendant and copies made available to MediaCat. There was also a letter from a D. S. (I'll await to see if his name is published in the official transcript) whose expertise ralates to the validity of using IP addresses - in summary the use of IP addresses is in doubt. Copies were passed to the 3 counsel.

Judge then said that he was not satisfied that MediaCAT had the right to discontinue with the cases and that he would be making a judgement on whether they could discontinue or they would have to continue with the cases. He then cited Section 102 of the Copyright Act - about copyright owner being a party to the case, and then refered to CPR 38.22. Basically he needed to go through licence agreements and a few other things to make a decision. It was then that the MediaCat counsel stated that there was one rather unfortunate difficulty and that he thought that it may be difficult to get instruction. One of the solicitors family had been involved in a traffic accident at the weekend and therefore not able to effectively give instruction. So if there was an accident did Andy run over one of his own family to make it real - or did his mistress chase him out of the house with a golf club and started smashing up his car.

The judge said that he will allow an adjournment whilst Ludbrooke could see if he could get instruction.

Before that counsel for Rali (Mr Tritton?) stated that they were going to be seeking wasted costs (for pre-action as well as the claim) and giving notice to the judge that they would be applying for this (not today but sometime in the future). He then went on as to why wasted costs would be applicable - I couldn't keep up with my note taking, but he talked about the fact that MediaCAT was not an exclusive license, that the copyright holder was not a party to the proceedings and that all parties needed to be joined. he then went on about tens of thousands of letters sent out demanding monies totally out of proportion to damages and costs. Cited Sheppenhurst & MediaCAT agreement (which Rali had requested from MediaCAT) whereby the solicitor gets 65% of all monies received after costs. Copy handled to Judge who had not seen it before. He said that such an agreement was contrary to the Solicitors Code of Conduct. The letters sent where wholly flawed in terms of the law and an abuse of the process for these types of proceedings that were conducted. The appropriate remedy in such an instance is the wasted costs remedy. In applying for an order for wasted costs, Tritton stated that these should be "off the scale". he then cited 45.412a - sacle costs not restricted where than has been abuse of court and 63.262 where parties had behaved unreasonably. Also concerned that MediaCat don't have the funds.

There was a disucssion on the use or abuser of the NPO - and the judge said that was an interlocutory (?) order and that copyright owners need not be a party and left it at that!

Judge says that he won't be making wasted costs order today as that is a big decision.

The way forward - get your diaries and bring them back at 2.00pm so we can determine a date when we reconvene - which should be no more than a week away (although MediaCat asked for longer). That hearing will determine whether they need the court's permission to discontinue.
Another hearing to make the opder to consider wasted costs.
Another subsequent hearing if the above order is granted to asses costs.


Also in attendance today - I think a lawyer from BT - not sure but thought I heard someone say he was from BT. A few journalists - BBC, Josh from The Guardian and some others from here that might correct and add to anything I've said. Definately no Andy or Bowden there.

The above is my recollection of much of what was said - it's only an opinion and if the transcripts say something otherwise don't shoot the messenger

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

I and lots and lots of others have been saying from day one that the likes of ACS law and the others involved in this debacle are in fact blackmailing people into paying out money they don't have to pay.

I hope this judge continues and gives ACS law and the other scam artists a right royal legal kicking and it ends the practise once and for all.


May i suggest people also read this blog in the link HERE, There is a very interesting development at the bottom of that blog.

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

This is quite interesting. ;)
http://www.goodlawyerguide.co.uk/fir...hobson-arditti :)

Re: Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?
 

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosin...1&searchType=L


looking at that page, they/it seems to be another shyster trying it on - with no mention of knowledge of this field. it all seems to be buildings and commercial/residential stuff. i assume that bussiness is slow for them then.