Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I don't think that would be argued, the question is why some ISPs are able to offer "sensible" (ie larger) caps on higher speeds and STILL have to pay BT their share (internal bandwidth) when NTL who own their network seem to be unable to provide either the speed or the volume usage, even though theoretically it would cost them less.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Exactly my point pc arcade, the bandwidth should be cheaper for NTL since they own their own network their is no middleman so to speak, BT wholesale provides bandwidth for ipstream and datastream isp's, Look at what Bulldog offer on LLU prices out of this world made possible by LLU effectively bypassing BT Wholesale, Easynet have been doing it on business for years and are now branching out to the residental market with ukonline, it is quite possible easynet customers are subsidising ukonline customers but as long as easynet customers dont suffer a reduced service easynet have got this business plan spot on.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Unless you take into account that ntl also have to pay for the maintenance of their own networks too..... :dunce:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Unlike BT then and Bulldog and UKonline who are now unbundling from BT and providing their own infrastructure, how EXACTLY does that make me a dunce ?? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but I cannot see how NTL's speed nor volumes can be justified in this day and age. At the end of the day as a CUSTOMER, I couldn't care less about NTL, BT or any other company having to pay out for x,y and z. I want the best service I can get for the best price, NTL are basically carrying on like there are only 2 ISP's in the country and yes they do offer a better deal than BT. But so do the other 50 or so ISPs who ALSO offer a better deal than NTL.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You're right. I'm sorry. 3meg is a disgustingly slow speed. How am I supposed to send emails and internet shop on such a poor speed? :rolleyes:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well u can send emails and internet shop on 150k with relatively the same results as u would get with 3mb......

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

That's a ridiculous statement, if that's what YOU want to use the net for fine (although I think you'd be better off on the lower tariff), I'd like to use it a little more extensively.

I don't have a 3mb connection, I'm on the fastest speed that NTL provide which currently is 1.5mb (the lowest (with the exeption of BT), Fastest speed available in my area BTW)

The question is "Given that NTL own their network are they unable to compete with ADSL providers on price and data volume (speed is largely irrelevant if it can only be used in moderation anyway) despite the fact that the ADSL providers, in the main also have to pay BT a share?"

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Do all these people who are for the cap work for NTLl? Do they have a profit related pay scheme? As far as I can see that's the only excuse for them. The sole reason they want to limit bandwidth is so they can cram more people onto their network and thus make more money. NTL will lose market share if they implement this.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You're trying to compare apples and oranges. ADSL and cable or different technolgies, and require different development and maintenance. It's like complaining that Aston Martin are more expensive then Ford, when they both provide the same end user product...

At the end of the day, ntl serves the masses very well. And that's what they need to do. They're too big and too cash strapped to concentrate on a very tiny percentage of bandwith hogging customers who have nothing better to do than download linux and movies all day, and who's arms are too short for the very deep pockets they appear to have.
:)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Oddly enough, yes :p: Well with the exception of about 2 or 3 of them.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No, but I do. I'm not for the cap, or against the cap. I am all for ntl making money though and keeping me in a job.:shrug:

Then I suggest you look for another excuse. PRP doesn't happen at ntl. ntl have had the 'cap' in place for ages now. The customers numbers are up. Your theory is full of holes. :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

If I'm comparing apples to oranges then WHY do NTL insist on doing the same, if they aren't the same as ADSL (especially BT) then they should stop trying to compete with them.

In fairness though as a customer, I couldn't care less about the technologies behind ADSL and Cable, its irrelevant, all people see is the Price, the Speed and the Caps (unless their hidden, but it's going to be harder for companies to hise them as they are fast becoming a contentious issue for the mainstream as well given the increased bandwidth use nowadays).

what you and NTL seem to be saying, though, orangebird is that VOIP, Online distribution (legal) of games (such as HL2 etc), as well as moves afoot by the movie industry to offer legit downloads is something that is neither wanted, nor able to be catered for on NTL'S network.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

And you're telling me you need unlimited gigs and 8 meg to do that?
I'm saying and ntl is saying nothing of the sort.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

NTL may lose customers who want to sit on the net day and night downloading stuff to burn onto CDs to sell on Ebay and make a fortune. Good!

The broadband service is aimed at average everyday users. I can assure people here and now that the absolute vast majority of customers are not remotely concerned with caps since none of these caps affects what they want to do.

Since the caps were introduced customer numbers are up massively.

As I have said before, people need to stop thinking that users of this forum in some way represent the entire customer base. I have yet to deal with a broadband customer who has even heard of this site. Most customers are happy with caps.

They aren't going to go away. They were only needed in the first place by any company because certain people saw it as a way to run their own illegal businesses from home.

No residential user can stand here and tell me they need the ability to download more than 200 MP3's a day, or 600 film trailers, or 100 large software programs, every day, every month, every year. No way. Sorry, if you're doing that you're running a business and you can clear off.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It wasn't a theory I was just asking.

Surely you realise this proposed cap is vastly different from the one they have in place already?

Asuming you agree that an uncapped service is better than a capped one, why (and this isn't just directed at you but at everyone who is pro-cap) would you possibly be keen on a service which isn't as good as one you could have. It's completely illogical.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

:clap: :clap:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

NTL are particularly guilty of this with the upcoming 3Mb service. It's all very well for them to say that they are going to ensure that their services are comparable to BTs, but if BT don`t have a comparable service then it's nothing but an empty promise.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

OK then :erm:

How so?

I couldn't care less whether the service is capped or not. But see Mark Bs post above, which I couldn't have put better myself.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Are most customers happy with caps, or is it actually that most customers are ignorant of the caps? It's not as though NTL went out of their way to publicise them when they were first introduced.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Not to the regular technology-ignorant customer. BB is BB to 99.9% of the internet using public, regardless of how it gets to your PC. That's why ntl has to compete - because the customers largely don't know any different. :shrug:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Whenever I deal with a new broadband booking, which is about 10 to 20 times a day now, I always mention it, and not one person has ever batted an eyelid.

Sorry if this disappoints the anti-cappers. In an ideal world I'd prefer no caps too, but since a small minority always abuse things they have become necessary. As long as they don't impact unfairly on the vast majority of users, then I am cautiously in favour. I do think the 1mb/3gb cap is too tight though, as I have said before. But at least existing users won't be forced onto that against their will, which is good.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Isn't that the equivalent of telling someone a new model of car comes with a "crankcarbstruterator" to which their reply would be "Oh, I see. So how fast does it go?"

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I don't work for NTL and never have and have no shareholding in the company.

I do have the ability to look a little deeper into the provision of broadband than some who post on here do. Everything isn't what it appears to be at first glance and digging a little deeper can expose many flaws with the arguments anti cap supporters use. Questions to ask yourself are things like:
Are ISPs making a profit or not?
Are current prices and usage conditions sustainable in more than the short term?
What percentage of potential users can access the full range of products at maximum speed?
Some people on here seem to think that all services being touted at the moment will be available to all users in the very near future. I know they will be disappointed when they find otherwise.

Orangebird made a very valid point in saying that xDSL products and cable products are very different with their own pros and cons. You cannot say that if one of these technologies can do something then the other must be able to do the same.

At the end of the day, each ISP will have a set of products each with its own price point and usage conditions. Users will have to find out which of these are available to them at their address and decide if the price and usage conditions meet their requirements.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I don't follow you. I explain everything to the customer, including the fact that there is a download limit. The customers are generally not stupid and can fathom what that means. If they don't, they usually ask. If they don't understand and don't say so, what am I supposed to do? I'm not psychic.

It always strikes me as odd that ntl are pilloried on here for this sort of thing, yet other companies with much sharper practices are praised as being customer focused.

There remains a certain responsibility upon the customer to check that they know what they are signing up for. It isn't the company's fault if they can't be bothered.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

My point being, the majority of users are upgrading from 56k, they'll have no comprehension of how much download usage they will need. The word "cap" will be a nonsense word to them. I'd be very suprised if ex-56k users didn't change their usage habits over time to take advantage of their new bandwidth. As the weeks/months go on they will realise the true potential of a boradband connection and will understand a cap such as 30gb is insufficient for their needs. But why would BT/NTL/Wanadoo care? They've locked you into a 12 month contract.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think that too many people are presuming that the average customer is thick and cannot work things out for themselves. If you are looking for a product, any product, and see several that look similar at different prices don't you look a little deeper to see why there is a difference? I can still remember the reaction to what Bill Goodland said about customers knowledge a year or two back.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

If this is so, that kind of customer is in a tiny minority... :shrug: What is 30gb not enough for?

...which the customer agrees to. No-ones holding a gun to your head when you sign. And PROFIT MAKING (not charity) organisations need to protect their generally costly investment of connecting a customer. What's the problem with that?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Never mistake stupidity for acceptance.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Sorry, but that's out of order.-

You've just implied what Bill Goodland got a slating for..... :rolleyes:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well Orangebird, the difference is this proposed cap is a hard cap, which means exceeding it will result in a degraded/loss of service.

Make no mistake about, people on the 1Mb 3 GB limit go over the cap, and I'm taling about people who know little about computers, not people downloading copyrighted material. What is customer services explanation going to be when they phone up, we've trebled your speed but reduced the amount you can use it by a factor of 10?

I agree with you to a certain extent, people who download 24 hours a day should pay more for their service. What I fail to understand is why people are keen on caps unless they have a vested intrest in ntl in which case fair enough. If not, what the hell does it matter to you what people use their internet connection for?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It matters, because customers do NOT have the right to **** and moan about things like the cap, when all they want to do is illegally download.

The 3gb/imeg service is daft, I agree. But still, no-one has answered my question about why you need more than 1 gig a day to do regular, residential service internet activity. :shrug:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

There is nothing implied there, I`m stating it as a fact. I have to deal with typical computer users every day in my job, I`m talking from a position of experience.

This is not the same as what Bill Goodland said. He claimed that since the majority of users could not understand what a cap was there was no point in explaining to them. I`m merely pointing out that the majority of customers won`t know what the caps are, I`m making no reference to whether that should be explained or not.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Show me where I said that and stop trying to put words in my mouth.
Although they are remarkably similar in content :rolleyes:
What happens when the HL2 Steam style distribution becomes the norm (and it's not as far off as NTL must be hoping)?

I'm not saying that there should be no restrictions, I'm saying that NTL's are VERY low for their top tier and that by the time they introduce it it WILL cause them problems for a much higher percentage of their userbase than it would if they were to introduce it now

PLEASE bear in mind that the cap isn't 30Gb a month it's 1gb a day, If I were to purchase HL2 silver, I would have to spread that download over 4 DAYS to avoid going over the cap, which frankly is ludicrous, OR go over the cap by ~3Gb (assuming I did NOTHING else with the internet that day).

I'm concerned that the "Pro cap" posters seem to either imply or outright accuse people exceeding the cap of either being "Pirates" or "running a business", it's not on IMHO, especially when there are so many ways of breaching NTLs AUP without doing either.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

So, going back to your 'Never mistake stupidity for acceptance' post, what's the option for ntl then?

CS - That's a capped service.
Cust - Capped? What's that?
CS - Well sir, you may only download so much a day/month/etc
Cust - Right, OK then.
CS - Sorry sir, but I really don't think you understood a word I said. I explain it to you again until I'm satisfied that you understand, ok?

:rolleyes:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well, you're example actually conveys no useful information. So, to answer your question, perhaps conveying useful information would perhaps be a start. If that is how the cap is explained to new customers then it is pushing the fringe of what I would consider an acceptable definition of "explaining".

Besides, this doesn`t address the key point that I originally raised. Staff at NTL are assuming that customers accept the cap and then using that as a basis to berate customers who don`t accept the cap. The first half of that equation is not demonstrably true, so extrapolating any conclusions regarding other customer's opinions of the cap is invalid.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Pot, Kettle.... :dunce:
Sorry - Steam is a great idea, but complete crap when you get to the bones of the technolgy around it. With the amount of RAM Steam takes up on most peoples PCs, it will not be popular, will put a lot of people of, and therefore should not be considered as a factor - all imo, of course :shrug:


OK, Steam. That's one (that hopefully most people won't want anywhere near their PCs if they have any sense)... Any more legal activity that needs more than 1 gig a day?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

What? Where has this talk of guns come from? I said people won't know how much bandwidth they will use so the fact that you tell them makes no difference. Most PROFIT MAKING corporations try to cater for everyone. Say NTL have 1m customers, 5% of that is 50,000 people. Now if this was a company like Ford they would see the gap in the market and build a sports car marketed at these people. Businesses need to suit their customers, not the other way round.
__________________

http://www.gamexstream.com/

there you go, movies and games on demand.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I`m sorry, but your reasoning is getting so specious as to the point of being irrelevant. It is *not* necessary for customers to demonstrate to you that they have a legal need to download more than a gig a day. And to dismiss an argument purely on the grounds that you personally do not like a piece of software is as good an example of clutching at straws as I've ever seen.

If you're going to start demanding that people prove that they have a legitimate need for a service then I think there is an onus on you to prove that NTL cannot deliver that service at a reasonable cost. Until you can I think you should stop demanding proof from others.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

And you do that every day??? :disturbd:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

:lol: But if you want to play HL2 you have no choice, (unless you pirate the game, but you SURELY aren't advocating that)

heres some more then

http://www.gamexstream.com/
http://www.moviexstream.com/
http://www.apple.com/trailers/
http://www.linux.org/dist/list.html
http://www.tucows.com/
http://www.shareware.com/
http://www.archive.org/movies/movies.php

There are plenty of legitamate uses for more than 1Gb per day.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

:clap:
__________________

Not currently. On-demand services are very new. NTL is making sure I never will be able to. Also, I have 3 PCs connected to my broadband connection, do you really think 1gb a day is enough for 3 experienced PC users?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

A recurring them here in support of the caps is that anybody going over them must be downloading copyrighted material. Apart from the fact that this isn't always the case(although I admit is probably true for the majority of people who will exceed it), since when has it been ntl's business to enforce copyright law? Indeed, if everyone was stopped from doing this I suspect ntl would lose many customers! (along with all other ISPs.) I'll reiterate what I said in my first post on the subject - the sole reason for the introduction of hard caps is so ntl can cram more customers onto their network and make more money, let's not try and kid ourselves otherwise.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Oh, ok, but you can say that, in your opinion, acceptance is stupidity, and that's OK? :rolleyes:

I never said that customers HAVE to demonstrate. I'm asking why 1gig is not enough, and a few examples. What's the problem with that??

ntl does deliver a good service at a reasonable cost That's why they have a million BB customers. No-one's prepared to tell me why it's not reasonable though. No onus on me :shrug:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I suppose you can`t spot the contradiction in your statement above?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Asking for examples is not demanding. No-one *has* to answer me..

Have you now nothing better to do that pick non existant holes in my posts?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I've posted some examples above

I could quite happily use them every day, and they would take me over 1Gb per day, they are all legal and high bandwidth uses of the internet

I missed a few as well
freeloader, underdogs and NTL broadband+ should be there as well :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

There you go. Thanks, I haven't pulled teeth for ages. :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

What was your point though?
Do I now have the ?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

True to a point. But if a company spots a gap in the market and decide to offer a product that fills the gap they will only do so at a price that ensures a profit from this new line. Ford would not spot a gap and build a new sports car costing £50,000 to manufacture and then sell it for £15,000 .

Customers need to to find a company that supplies their needs at the price they want to pay, not get a company to change its products and prices to suit them alone.

__________________



Yes, streaming movies on demand. They do require a constant stream at the speed for the quality they need to be watched in. Not really suited for households with multiple users making their different demands on the internet connection and on ISPs networks that may be suffering contention issues during peak times.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You can argue that quite legally, you use more than the cap allows. But you'll be in a small minority, and your best option would probably be to find another supplier that suits your needs. :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Is that an admission that people who use an internet conection of speed for the ONLY things that need that speed are not wanted? ;)

Seriously though, I don't understand why NTL don't just offer a 300k (or 512 if they wanted to be generous) unlimited option for a sensible price, the amount would be seriously hampered by the speed of the connection and I would rather have the stuff slower and not have to keep my eye on the clock (or usage) than get it quickly and have to make sure I don't go over a set limit arbitrarily imposed by my ISP.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Many of the new high bandwidth uses for the internet will require a stable connection speed for that one application which can be problematic in multi system homes and on networks that are getting saturated at peak times.

1Gb a day may not be enough for a home network with 3 experienced users. There should be an option that offers users an enhanced service to cater for this at something like 3 times the price.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

3 times the price, what are you on.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

hehehe he lives in a fantasy world......where 2mb is fine for everyone and no one would possibly need more than 640k.

;-)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Do you honestly believe 3x price is realistic? If that's a realistic price 1mbit customers with 3gb cap should be paying closer to £5 a month. I know from your earlier posts you dislike subsidising anyone that uses more bandwidth than you, but what about all the poor 1mbit customers? They're subsidising something at that price.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Kinda of a silly argument and position for you to take when a few of your posts ago you were complaining about P2P speeds though innit:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...715#post399715

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Why not, most things in life if you want 2 you pay double and treble if you want 3. Some people want more than their fair share of the cake but are not prepared to pay for it. Can you give a justifiable reason why a 3 user household should just pay the same as a single user household?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Who said anything about all 3 users needing 100% of the bandwidth all the time? A 2 hour film of acceptable quality (about 1gb) could easily be streamed over a 2mbit connection. With enough left over for others to browse on other PCs.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

But that's the point - is it need, or just plain want? Why listen to the radio on line when you have a perfectly good stereo in the house. Why watch a movie online when you can watch it on DVD on a tv screen?

For a residential service, no one NEEDS 8meg. No one NEEDS unlimited gigs. But if they want it, yes they should pay for it. At this moment in time, ntl do not offer that kind of service. So, you can either pull your hair out about ntls service, or find a supplier that suits your needs and pay the relative price. :shrug:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I just don't get the people on this forum, who give a toss wether he uses P2P so do the majority of people otherwise apps like kazza etc wouldnt have 70 million downloads...come on peeps keep it real.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Because it's well within the AUP to do so? 3 users could easily use less than 1 heavy user.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Not at all, I never said I didn't use p2p networks as it would have been a lie. OB asked for legit examples of high bandwidth usage, I provided them.

I do not have to justify MY internet useage to anyone, unless NTL contact me IF I go over the cap.

I disagree with the cap and, when and if NTL get in touch I will leave, if NTL make more money because of that, then fair play to them, if not and they lose money then good.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Why use a telephone when we have a perfectly good postal service?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

yeah no one needs 8mb thats why the next version of 3g telephony does speeds upwards of 14mbit hehehehe orangebird you just got electricity where you are then or what ?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

That's a silly example. Telephone is immediate. Post is two days.

Switching my radio on is no slower than logging on to the radio via the internet and using up gigs that way..... :
__________________

WTF has that got to do with anything? I use a phone to call people, not surf the net???

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

So i guess all the internet radio stations must switch off and stop broadcasting then cos you dont want to listen to em...

yeah you might not want to surf the net on a mobile but other people do so why should they not be allowed to do this ?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

On-demand is instant, renting a dvd from blockbuster is not instant. Technology changes, just because you don't change as fast doesn't mean others are lagging behind.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Hans: Well said...

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

:clap: :clap:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I use on demand through my telly, not the internet... :erm:

It's not about how fast I change.

There's a cap of 1 gig day. I want to download some i-tunes, listen to the radio, send some pictures via email to America, do a bit of online shopping and download a movie (all legal of course). BUT - Say this all totals over 1gig. What do I do? Turn the bloody stereo on and save some gigs. Only purchase 10 i-tunes instead of twenty, as I really don't need them all in one day. Get of my arse and take a walk in the fresh air to the shops. The choices are endless. And it's much more productive than the fruitless, self centered task of whining about it on here. :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

So pay an early adopter price for these revolutionary services, Blockbuster's DVD ordering online is more popular than any on-demand streaming service. Quit expecting non-mainstream for a mainstream price.

Silly argument this one, hasn't changed from 2 years ago :rofl:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Everyone's life is different, everyone has different circumstances. What suits you doesn't suit everyone.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yes, the AUP does allow you to have 3 computers connected just as it shows an acceptable usage level of 1Gb a day. Your earlier post said
That suggests to me that you want 3 times the allowance because you have 3 connected computers. My view is that the AUP allows you to connect up to 3 computers with a combined acceptable usage of 1Gb per day. If you want 3 computers connected and an higher allowance to cater for this higher usage then you should pay for it.


Thanks for the grey rep for this post Hans but where is the argument flawed?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

As silly as an arguement that states anyone that downloads more than a predefined limit set by an ISP is involved in illegal activities?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well, either that, or they really should get out more :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It's not available on NTL, care to explain how us NTL cable TV customers can do the same?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

(You could put that statement to yourself too. . )

I know, but as far as the great majority of ntls 1m bb customers go, it suits them. :)
__________________

I press my 'on demand' button on my ntl remote, I get a list of films to watch, I choose one, I choose a time to watch it at and then watch it.. :tu:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

so VOD is available now??
I thought it wasn't available until later this year at the earliest?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No, that's On Demand.

Video on Demand was released in the Glasgow region a while ago. WAKEY WAKEY!! :)

Link for your perusal...

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Sorry this is going of topic, but what's the difference??
And neither of us in in Glasgow??

Now I'm really confused :confused:
To be honest I don't use anything other that just turning the TV on and watching a channel of choice, anything else seems to crash my pace box so it's pretty much unusable anyway :(

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Is that through Front Row?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yep :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It isnt that difficult to go over the cap when u have more than one computer at any one time, not everyone who goes over the cap can be considered to be breaking the law. To suggest that they are is shortsighted and to a point rather arrogant.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Staff don't use the word 'cap'. It's "download limit" or similar.

Staff are not stupid either and most are perfectly capable of adpating their language to suit the customer they are dealing with.

Contrary to popular belief they do NOT read from scripts.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Orangebird:
So people download illegally what are you the morality police...

I come back again if the majority don't do this why has kazza had over 70 million downloads.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

There are 70 million people silly enough to let that spy and adware ridden crap loose on their machines :erm:

Although thanks for supporting Orangebird's comment, as the majority are apparently P2P'ing she's right to say the majority of those who break the usage limits are doing it with dubious downloads.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Nah, it's the small minority who have downloaded thousands of files each most of which they are never going to listen to, watch or play.

Think about it, if the total downloads are 70 million and the heavy downloaders have over a thousand each (and probably many more) there is a quite small number involved. The same probably goes for other p2p applications, newsgroups, etc.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Proof, please.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Mark B mentioned earlier that the majority of customers he speaks to every day have no issues. But I really wouldn't think that was proof enough for you.

I can't prove anything. All I (or anyone) can do is work out relative percentages and get a majority from there...

How many people signed the no cap petition when that was about, compared to the amount of bb customers? A Minority.

How many customers on this site are cheesed of with the cap, compared to how many bb customers ntl have? A minority. That's the best I have to offer as far a 'proof' goes.

If you however have any 'proof' to the contrary, I'd glady take a look at it? :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

So you have no proof then?

So, going by your argument you have no problem with me stating that the majority of customers, going by my experience of those I've spoken to, are totally unhappy with NTL and only stay with them because they have no other real choice where they live? Equally, you have no problem with me stating that the majority of NTL staff are absolutely useless and probably can`t tie their shoelaces together. From my personal experiences I'd be surprised if you can work out the percentages. Again, that's my personal experience which is all you are using.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well *I* have a problem with you saying that. Because it's complete rubbish.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

And since dr wadd's argument takes the same form as orangebird's, as an illustrative example I might add, then what can we conclude about orangebird's argument then? ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Actually no, not in my experience. As I have conceded on this board in the past I have had good service off a few, but it is the few.

If this is not the case, when I had a recent problem with my phone bill did I have to go through multiple idiots who didn`t have a clue, the final one saying it would take up to 10 days to get resolved? When I didn`t get my promised call back the next person I spoke to had to deal with the problem cold, the previous people had written absolutely no notes for the account. She had the problem resolved in 30 minutes.

This is typical of every problem I have with NTL that has required me to contact them for resolution.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

None that would keep you happy, no.


None whatsoever. You'll think what you like regardless. I have better things to do than worry about what you think. :)

If I gave a toss for your opinions, I might have had a problem, but fortunately I don't. I know far more staff than you do at ntl, and they happen to be intelligent, dilligent hardworking people. I'll guess you'll be very surprised that I have A levels in Maths and Accounts and that I could work the percentages out too. Have a great weekend. :D
__________________

Why don't you leave ntls services if it's all so terrible? :dozey:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

ok, I've just read the last 3 - 4 pages of this thread, and yet again there seems to be the point of view that the ntl staff members that post here, of their own free will, are fair game when it comes to ntl company policy and decisions.

This is not fair and will not be tolerated. The decisions for the caps(download limits) have not been made by these people, and it's unfair to badger them for those decisions.

The basis of 1Gig a day has been around for absolutely ages, and yes the difference this time is that the caps will be enforced in time. But the daily usage of the average user will NOT exceed this limit. If it does I assume the speed will be reduced for the rest of that day ... NOT CUT OFF.

Now please calm things down in here, and remember that we are all people doing our jobs .....

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

1. There is currently no BT line running into my flat. I would have to get one installed first to find out if I can get ADSL here.

2. Because it is in a block of flats I need planning permission before I can get a Sky dish installed.

3. Even if I get planning permission, the company that own the flats may still not give permission for me to get a Sky dish put up.

4. If I decide to skip steps 2 and 3 and either the council or the flat owners decide they want a dish taken down they can take legal action to get that enforced.

This is why I stay with NTL, I simply do not have a practical choice.

There are people I know who stay with NTL for DTV because they cannot put dishes up on their properties due to local planning restrictions. Again, if they want more than the channels available from Freeview they are stuck with NTL.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No NTL employee has proof of what the majority of their customers "think". What they do have though are usage stats of customers which show the percentage of customers that have a usage pattern that will not involve breach of the caps. A reasonable person would assume that if those stats show that over 95% of customers have a usage pattern below the cap levels then they will not be bothered by the caps. Now, do you consider yourself a reasonable person?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Given that NTL have over 1 million customers, that 5% is actually an awfully large number of people to lose. Further, I'd warrant that the 5% are the kind of people who were early adopters of broadband technology, so there is a strong chance they will have been with this service the longest. NTL are effectively risking losing some of their longest-term customers.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I can assure you that isn't the case.