Re: smoking and the pub
 

Oh deary deary me... :doh: If you're that worried about your childrens health, I hope you don't feed them from the pub menu. Hardly 'fresh cooked'.... :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well rather than feel sorry for smokers, spare a thought for us family folk whose options are often horribly limited. I mean, Brewers Fayre. Now if anything should be banned......

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yep, same old laminated/microwave crap. :nono:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I agree with you on this point.

The article I don't think was suggesting an outright ban on cars but questioning why the government is failing to meet standards set down by the EU. I think the camparison is at least worth making in terms of priorities, and looking at the figures you'd think the Government may have decided to priotise car use/emissions etc.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Indeed. But sometimes that's the only choice open to families, a choice which will become even more limited when pubs jack in food because of this useless fudge.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If the landlords think that's what they need to do, you're buggered either way. If they did ban smoking and keep food, it looks like they think they'd be out of business anyway....:shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The dangers of passive smoking causing or contributing to a serious illness is probably quite small but nevertheless still a risk and if not worth banning for that reason then because its plain unpleasant to anyone who doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t smoke. Manners, courtesy etc.

I remember reading something in the BMJ a while back that was controversially proposing that the dangers of passive smoking were not as high as first thought however, we mustn't let ourselves be deceived that it's OK or not worth bothering about.

The risk is not only lung cancer or heart disease either. Smoking causes/exacerbates numerous health problems.

It can cause oral cancer, throat cancer, CVA (stroke), hypertension (high blood pressure), AMI (heart attack), Ischaemic heart disease, Cardiac arrhythmias, Vascular disease (can lead to leg amputation), breathing problems like asthma, COPD, emphysema, bronchitis, chest infection, (within seconds of coming into contact with smoke the little villi on your trachea/bronchi are paralysed. These little epithelial †œhairsâ € � usually fibrillate gently to help bring mucus from your lungs back up the trachea for you to swallow ;). After smoking these do not work temporarily and your lungs get †œclogged upâ₠¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â� more than they should. This can lead to chest infection etc), Graves disease (causes hyperthyroidism), osteoporosis, premature delivery in pregnancy - even increased perinatal mortality and SIDS (cot death), lower baby weights, even abortion, increased risk of DVT (deep vein thrombosis), reduction in fertility etc That's the ones that I can bring to mind needless to say that there are many more reasons.

Why am I mentioning all these? Firstly I think itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s worth stating but I also think that there is a general delusion amongst smokers that smoking is OK and not particularly risky. They may well infer that they "know it's bad for me health" but I don't think that many really take it to heart (no pun intended ) It's true that some smokers get to the age of 90 but many many more die of a MI before they are 60. It's true that you could get run over by a bus but to be honest that is a much better way to die than from a smoking related disease such as emphysema or cancer.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There are 2 main pubs in my town and I am sure that if they banned smoking they would not go out of business. The people who go there have been doing so for years and I am sure that smoking isn't the main reason they go - it's also about drinking and socialising with their mates and the staff. I reckon it would give a few of them motivation to quit as well.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Any landlord who is not preparing for a ban - which will inevitably come - will go out of business. Adapt or die.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think most smokers are well aware of the dangers. But, 1. believe that it will never happen to them - self-denial. Most smokers start when any serious adverse effects are many years away, and 2. are addicted, so find it difficult to stop. And possibly 3. enjoy it and don't really care.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I also think a large number of smokers convince themselves that they will quit before it's too late. I know people who do that and I did as well for a while.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They very rarely go with us to a pub for a meal because I have no faith in air con systems that allegedly keep the smoke in smoky areas. If I go in a Wetherspoon it's usually just me and the missus, on a rare evening out - and at the moment, we have a breastfeeding baby as well, so evenings out are finished by about 10pm! The other thing about young children is that they cost rather a lot, so I for one am glad of JD's low-cost menu.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well, maybe they'll just make as much money as they can in the next 3/4 years, then go find another business where they're not bullied into what they do and don't allow on their on premises.
__________________

Low cost = high crap. Turkey twizzlers - say no more. :sick:

Just to add, I have three children to consider, and I'm fully aware of the expense...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Somebody would make a mint if they set up a pub chain that welcomed (rather than barely tolerated) families AND served decent food. There's the occasional independent but no chains I'm aware of that do this. So there you go, gap in market, problem solved. End of debate (please ;) :) !)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If they consider this bullying then I fear for their chances of finding such a business...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Do you not consider being forced against your own will to do something to your own detriment bullying? There are plenty of businesses out there that do not have to make the choices that landlords are having to make at the moment. Have a little think... :dozey:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No I don't consider it bullying - we are all bound to the laws of the land and if a new law comes in that I don't like, I might moan and groan about it but it's not bullying IMO. I can't think of a single legitimate business that would be exempt from new health and safety laws that they may not like, but have to accept.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's fine. But can you suggest to me any such business?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I've tried. Patches and everying but I just can't give it up ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

This debate is becoming as addictive as smoking...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Where a ban on smoking wouldn't affect business? Yep.

Any highstreet shop
Any department store
Basically Clarie, any business where leisure/drink/food retail isn't involved. Not that hard really, is it? :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Condescension aside, I wasn't talking about a ban on smoking.....

You said:
Which is why I said that this might be a difficult task for them if they believe the ban on smoking to be bullying.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And I've just listed a loed of business which bullying such as the smoking ban wouldn't affect. What bit don't you get?? :dunce:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I don't get the bit where you don't classify working time directives, the minimum wage, heath and safety legislation, consumer rights legislation, &c, &c, &c to be 'bullying' in the same legal sense as smoking legislation will be.

Every business has to comply with a swathe of rules and regulations that tell them what they can and cannot do with their products, their staff and their premises. According this new legislation the special title of 'bullying' looks a bit odd when you view it in context.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You take kids into a pub which allows smoking because you can get cheap (crap) food?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Just because you may be annoyed does not entitle you to be rude. If you are not annoyed then why be rude?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Where did I say that? :confused:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

None of what you've listed above Chris will affect the trade/customers you may or may not attract. The smoking ban does. Bloody hell, has everyone had a labotomy today?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I am not sure why this is so difficult. You said that people would go and find a business where they are not bullied about what they do and don't do on their premises. I asked you to name business of this sort. I am not talking about just the smoking ban. I am referring to what you said about a business where they are not told what they can and can't do on their premises.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Not sure if annoyed is the right word - exasperated or irritated at peoples deliberate ignorance to suit there own agendas would be more like it. That's why I'm being rude. I think my rudeness is a lot less offensive than some people bloody mindedness tbh.
__________________


You really take the biscuit. see me answer to Chris T's post. You're back on my ignore list. :monkey: :dunce:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why is OB so rude?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Most people agree passive smoking is bad for your health, I do. So, why shouldn't it be left up to the discretion of the landlord whether he allows smoking in his/her establishment? Surely it is up to the individual whether they use that pub or not. Maybe large signs should be put above the door saying whether smoking is allowed or not - you can then make up your own mind to enter or not. As for the staff, the same should apply, they make the descision to work in a place that accepts smoking or not. Problem solved.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Maybe not, but I think to draw a distinction between rules that affect who comes through your front door and rules that do not is entirely artificial, and if I may say so, appears to feature in your argument only because it suits *your* agenda.

The only way in which you can discuss the law as it affects business is to look at all of it, and look at how it affects the whole of the business. Footfall is one small part of an overall business. Minimum wage, for example, affects profit margins. Is this unimportant?

Claire's point (I think), and mine, is that you cannot separate laws on smoking from any other law that affects a business. If you consider smoking legislation to be bullying the proprietor, you must consider all other business law to be bullying the proprietor also. And that undermines your suggestion that a landlord might give up the pub trade and go and find a business where he won't get bullied. No such business exists.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Exactly. I am afraid orangebird is separating smoking from any other health and safety laws because it fits her argument, and because she doesn't want to have to stop smoking in pubs. It's as simple as that.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There ^^^ :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You edited out the bit where I said "If I go in a Wetherspoon it's usually just me and the missus, on a rare evening out". ;)

If we go out to eat during the day with the children, we try our hardest to go places where we are reasonably sure the food is ok. He was weaned on Annabel Carmel, so he has discerning tastes!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Freedom of choice is my concern. If you want to smoke you can, its not illegal. If you don't want to smoke that's also a individual choice. If you want to smoke in a public house, find one that accepts this policy, if not go elsewhere. Same apply's for non-smokers.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well that's fine, I do disagree though.

Not sure how it relates to the quote from me though. I said that because orangebird was suggesting that smoking regulations were a form of bullying whilst other health and safety regulations aren't.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The fatal flaw with that argument is that market forces have not allowed a viable choice in this area to become available. Whether through fear of loss of trade, or inertia, pubs (with the notable exception of Wetherspoons) do not choose to go smoke free. So we use the law to enforce it, on the grounds that the health issues are so serious, the intrusion on personal freedom is warranted.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'm surprised that you think your rudeness is less offensive than other people's bloody-mindedness. Are you not being, even just a smidgen bloody-minded yourself?

As Rob says I think the tone needs dialling down and the debate should be amicable.

:)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Just trying to point out my view is that its up to an individual to smoke, same should apply to the landlord and what he/she wants in their establishment. A complete ban is a direct hit on freedom of choice. Also, can anybody explain why there is H&S regulations about smoking that we all have to adhere to but smoking is still legal? Seems a contradiction to me.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There are health and safety regulations that we adhere to that apply to many legal activities, like lifting and carrying, climbing, alcohol consumption and all sorts.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

How is it a contradiction? We have reams and reams of laws that tell you how to drive your car, without making driving illegal.

Speed limits impinge on my personal freedom to get where I want to be as fast as I choose, but I accept them because I recognise the overall health and safety issues are *more important* than my personal freedom.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If you were to wear a goldfish bowl on your head and then smoke then I would have no problem sitting next to you while you enjoyed your right to smoke. The problem arises when your right interferes with mine. We have done this to death in the thread previously btw...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Are people being forced into smoking establishments?
No.
So why should smokers be forced out of smoking establishments?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Xaccers no one is forcing a smoker out of any establisment. Apart from to nip outside for a cigarette.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Taking this a little further; if that goldfish bowl was soundproofed then that would please me even more with some people!

;) :rofl:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Currently you have the right to choose whether to go into a smoking establishment or not to eat something.
After the ban, smokers will not have this right.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Smokers can go anywhere they like, they just can't smoke inside.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Chris,i edited it to show the two points you said.

Usually just you and the missus,but not always!

Your taking kids in a pub which allows smoking.
If your so anti smoking, why subject kids to it until the law changes?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes, people are being forced into smoking establishments because if they want a night out, there's nowhere else to go!

Why should smokers be forced out? Because their minority behaviour has an unacceptable impact on the majority. Making things harder for them might also encourage them to quit a habit that's likely to kill them also.

It's that simple!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

oh, anywhere except in the actual pub! hardly anywhere is it?

That means if i want to smoke and drink together, then i have to a) find a pub with a beer garden, b) have my drink in a plastic glass, and c) only go to the pub in nice weather.

Anti-smokers are really starting to wind me up now. Last weekend i went to Toby Carvery which has an eating area (non smoking) and both smoking and non smoking sections in the bar. After my main course i fancied a fag, so i went over to the smoking area. The place was relatively quite, plenty of free tables in all areas, and a woman sat in the smoking area turned round to me and said "excuse me can you go and smoke somewhere else because i've got asthma". WTF? If you have asthma don't sit in the bloody smoking area. 3/4 of the place is non smoking, so my guess is she sat in the smoking area just to **** off smokers.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ok, I'll repeat what I just said and hopefully clarify things for you.
At the moment, a smoker can sit down, have a meal in a smoking establishment and smoke at the same time.
Non smokers have the choice to go into the same establishment, and sit down and eat with the smokers (or in the non-smoking area although some people on here seem to have been to some really bad restaurants as they say the non-smoking area is smokey whereas I've never been in such a place) or they can choose not to go in and sit down and have a meal with smokers.
That to me is fair.
Everyone chooses what they want to do based on their personal view of a legal activity (ie smoking)

After the ban, smokers will not be able to have a cigarette while having their meal, and as a non-smoker, I won't have the choice to go into smoking establishments and enjoy a meal with my friends who do smoke.

Do you know understand the issue here?
My right to choose is being infringed upon.

Do you really think it is reasonable for you to walk into a smoking establishment through your own free choice and request all the smokers stop just for you?

If going into a smoking establishment is so unreasonable Chris, then don't do it.
If the need to go into the pub "for a good time" is greater than your own health concerns then frankly what are you complaining about?
If a pub is too smokey for me, I will not go in there. Simple as that.
Either you accept the risks and go in, or if they're unacceptable, you don't.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Do I have a right to urinate in the middle of the lounge of a pub? No, I go to the toilet and come back to my seat. I do this because of the social impact it has on others.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

However, if the AUP of the establishment was that patrons could urinate in the middle of the lounge, you'd have no right to complain if someone does it.
If you don't like it, go to a different pub with an AUP which is more suited to your needs.

I don't like drunk people who spoil my night out.
Should we therefore ban alcohol from pubs so that my night isn't spoilt, and the anti-social and poor health effects of drinking do not occur?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

AUP ??

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Acceptable User Policy :)
Basically the house rules.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Because that doesn't suit the non-smokers divine rights.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But your reasoning is not self evident, as you present it to be. It works only for the one who can speak from a position of power. Currently, smokers have the power. They, however, are a minority, and the democratic majority are about to take that power from them. The situation will then appear thus:

If going into a smoke-free establishment is so unreasonable, don't do it.
If the need to smoke in a pub is greater than your own health concerns, then frankly, what are you complaining about?
If a pub's smoke-free status is too much for you, don't go in there. Simple as that. (You can smoke at home).
Either you accept the wishes of the majority and go in, without your fags, or if you can't go without your fags, you don't.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You are repeating a lot of the thread's previous discussed issues. The problem with that arguement is that alcohol does not have an impact on my health anywhere near the degree that passive smoking does.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The power lies with the establishment owner.
The majority of the UK population may be non-smokers like myself, but the majority of customers at the Nag's Head down the road are smokers.
Anyone who enters that establishment currently has the choice to do so or not, knowing full well the dangers of going in.

Really?
How many deaths on the road are due to people under the influence of nicotine?
How many people end up in hospital because someone under the influence of nicotine has attacked them?
How many people are unable to get emergency treatment because the A&E department is full of people under the influence of nicotine?

The problem with your argument against it is that you are forgetting that you have the choice not to go into a smokey pub, therefore the choice of whether to partake in passive smoking or not.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You miss the point. As a smoker you can go anywhere you like, except for thos few moments when you want to smoke.

And if you want to smoke and drink together, yes, you have to go to a bit of trouble to do so. Sorry, but smoking is your habit and your problem, not mine. Although as I have said before in this thread, I would argue for a sealed room for smokers.
That's correct. You will, however be able to have a meal with your friends who smoke, they just won't be able to smoke inside.
I am not as concerned about your right to choose as I am about your, mine and everyone else's right to enjoy good health.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But that is a self-selecting group, so it doesn't really prove anything.

When 75% of people don't smoke, but only 40-50% of the people at the pub are non-smokers, you have to wonder why the non-smokers are staying away.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Actually the power lies ultimately with the government and quite right too. So far as I have seen in this thread, many landlords are more worried about their profits than the health of their patrons (and I imagine this is a perfectly natural concern), however, our health is more important than the landlord's bank balance, which is where the government legislation steps in.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:clap: :clap:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I don't think it's nearly as clever as you do. This is what I said in response to Neon's post:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So what? :shrug: I wasn't aware that I should form the same opinion of peoples post as you do. Is there a new site t&c I don't know about?

I still think :clap: :clap:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Actually, you would, because health and safety law would overrule the landlord's toleration of such a thing - in much the same way as health and safety laws are about to over-rule landlords who allow smoking.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But the problem with this, Chris, is that non-smokers currently have a choice as to whether to visit a pub where smoking is allowed or a pub where smoking is not allowed/confined to a small area. After this ban is imposed, and the balance of power is shifted, as you put it, then the smokers won't have the option of going from a pub where smoking is not allowed to a pub where smoking is allowed, as this pub (er... that serves food too, I hasten to add) will not be permitted by law. Currently non-smokers have a choice - soon, smokers will not have that choice.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Because you're quoting and applauding something someone posted earlier today, which more than one other person has since attempted to refute. If you want to take the discussion forward instead of simply shouting from the grandstand, why not tackle those objections, or at least explain why they're not relevant?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Which you can enjoy fully by excising your right to not go into establishments where smoking is allowed.
Why should I not be allowed to chose to sit down with smoking friends while we eat and they smoke?
They are allowed to choose to smoke, so why am I denied the choice to passive smoke?
If somewhere is smokey and you don't want to go in there because of it, simply don't go in there, no one is forcing you to put your health at risk.
Do you also believe that tobacco products should be banned?
If so, how about alcohol?

Yes it does prove something.
People are exercising their right to choose.
People who stay away are staying away because they don't want to go there, leaving the pub free for everyone who does want to go there.
If the landlord wants to attract non-smokers, then fine, let him impliment a non-smoking policy, and people will still be able to excise their right to choose whether to go there or to go elsewhere which allows smoking.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I no longer smoke by the way. :dozey:

No one is forcing you to go to a public house where smoking is permitted. So don't go! Same for smokers.

Why have a complete ban? What's wrong with individual choice with regards to what publicans want? Do we not live in a democracy, with so called freedom of choice?

If smokers in pubs are in such a small minority, why is it then that most publicans don't want an enforced ban?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So what? I agree with his post, and I applaude it. Why the **** do I have to justify that action? Who called the posting police? :rolleyes: I really don't care whether you liked his post as much as I did or not.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Sealed room for smokers!

We've got them now,they're called pubs which allow smoking. :)

Anyway, how long would it be before non-smokers wanted to come in to our sealed room?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

My argument throughout has been that the 'choice' afforded to non-smokers is an illusion. For a start, there are virtually no non-smoking pubs. And to follow, in those pubs which have 'separate' areas, I have never once been in one where the non-smoking section is entirely smoke free, *except* in very large establishments, where it is possible to sit a long, long way from the smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Smokers in pubs are not currently in a small minority, but they are in the overall population. If smoking were banned in pubs, I expect many non-smokers would come out of the woodwork and frequent pubs more often, having previously avoided them for health reasons and because they didn't like coming home stinking of smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Another fine point Neonknight :clap: :clap: :clap:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why on earth would a non-smoker want to go into a sealed smoking room?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Because it's possible to have a chat with a smoker. The non-smokers have got their heads stuck where the sun doesn't shine which makes any decent conversation just about non-existent.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I know, before anybody reminds me, that you can't ignore one issue just because little is being done about another, but did this article (from Gareth's post) not at least make anybody think where the Government should have started?

Quote:

Every year, according to a paper published by the British Medical Journal, some 54 bar staff in the UK die as a result of their exposure to other people's cigarette smoke. And every year, according to the EU, some 39,000 deaths in this country are caused or hastened by air pollution, most of which comes from vehicles. This is a problem three orders of magnitude greater than the one that has filled the newspapers for the past six months, and no one is talking about it.

Taken from here, (originally posted by Gareth).

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You know some very bad pubs then Chris, come down here where all the restaurants/pubs I know with no-smoking areas are free from smoke.
I have the choice, I use my right to choose, I don't like the thought of that right being removed from me.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Once again needlessly offensive, and surprising as I thought I was on the ignore list...

Anyway those people who want to go in and chat with a smoker, well that's fine. The point of a sealed smoking room would be to protect those who actually take an active interest in their own health.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

See you're point there on H&S but I still stand with the individual's right to allow or not allow smoking in their own establishment. Same goes for the individual right to smoke or not to smoke and to be given a choice of freedom where that takes place.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Crikey, you should consider moving to Swindon, mate :) I can (and already have) give you names of 3 pubs within walking distance of my house where you can go without the need to wear a gas mask... and I don't even live in the town centre!
__________________

...or Leighton Buzzard, by the sounds of it, if Swindon doesn't float your boat ;)
__________________

I dunno... :shrug: but it seems that non-smokers like to be able to go in to them at the moment, and that's what they're moaning about. ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Try Scotland, where the concept of a non-smoking section in any cafe is often still considered a novelty. It is atrocious up here. Thankfully, there will be a complete and utter ban on all smoking in public from next April.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I was starting to miss your patronising ignorance :)

Yep, loving the patronisation....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There's also the issue that with breaking motoring laws such as dangerous driving, you could spin off the road and take out a pedestrian, whereas with smoking, passive smokers have a choice whether to be in danger or not.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Maybe we should just ban pubs instead - that would be a lot simpler, in my opinion, as we'd all lose out! ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Exactly.
Does make it sound like the rambling association though. We want to go there because we can't, and we want the people already there to make way for us becasue we're so important.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Good point. ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If you can point me in the direction of an ignorant comment then I might take you seriously. Otherwise I might suggest leaving the little digs out of an otherwise interesting thread.
If we are acknowledging that passive smoking is dangerous I can't see why there is even a debate here. Why should the dangerous habit of a minority be allowed to risk the healths of the majority. It is truly ridiculous and only allowed because smoking has been around for so long.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's exactly what it sounds like. :tu:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:Yikes:

:bsmack:

:D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Non-smokers do not have to expose themselves to passive smoking.
So what's the problem?
Why the need for the ban?

Should we ban base jumping? It can lead to death, and although I can protect myself by not partaking in it, I may slip up and paticipate and risk my life!
Or how about underwear? People die in underwear incidents every year, I can protect myself by choosing to go commando, but what if my gf leaves her knickers on the floor and I trip on them and fall down the stairs to my death?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

*sigh* Because the non-smokers say so. :tu: ;) :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why on earth eh!..but you come into pubs which (by law) allow smoking!

Stamp your feet all you want but you're not making much sense!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Honestly speaking we have been over this point so many times in this thread that I am not sure for the need to go there again. But to summarise:
a) Pubs are a place of work - the health of the staff must be considered. People seem to think it's fine and if the staff don't want to work in a smoky pub they don't have to, but others have pointed out that it's not always that easy.
b) Why should the choice of where I want to go be decided by whether or not I want to inhale someone else's smoke? Currently smokers dominate the pub-going population - even if they are not in the majority their combined smoke makes the whole place stink.
c) It may encourage some smokers to quit.