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-   -   Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered ! (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704414)

Osem 11-04-2017 16:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35894218)
Not in a practical, every day sense, whilst we are in the EU.


We can't independently, at will, change all laws, all taxes and EU immigration rules whilst still in the EU.


These three things are the heart of Sovereignty.
Not only that, but staying in the EU will see the UK inevitably drawn into the single European state at some point or other. The EU has that as its stated aim and it's inconceivable that the UK would be able to remain detached from it forever. At that point the choice would be join fully or leave and how much harder would it be to do so then? It's proving difficult enough now...

passingbat 11-04-2017 17:17
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35894235)
Not only that, but staying in the EU will see the UK inevitably drawn into the single European state at some point or other. The EU has that as its stated aim and it's inconceivable that the UK would be able to remain detached from it forever. At that point the choice would be join fully or leave and how much harder would it be to do so then? It's proving difficult enough now...

Spot on.


They don't want to let us go now, even though we have voted to leave. If we stay loosely tied to the EU (soft Brexit), then they will concentrate on dragging us closer and closer, bit by bit, into federal status. Hard brext is the only safe option. The people of the UK were deceived from the get-go regarding the true aims of 'The Common Market'; we should learn, and not be fooled again.

heero_yuy 11-04-2017 17:23
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35894237)
Spot on.


They don't want to let us go now, even though we have voted to leave. If we stay loosely tied to the EU (soft Brexit), then they will concentrate on dragging us closer and closer, bit by bit, into federal status. Hard brext is the only safe option. The people of the UK were deceived from the get-go regarding the true aims of 'The Common Market'; we should learn, and not be fooled again.
:clap::clap::clap:

Kursk 11-04-2017 21:25
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35894237)
Spot on.


They don't want to let us go now, even though we have voted to leave. If we stay loosely tied to the EU (soft Brexit), then they will concentrate on dragging us closer and closer, bit by bit, into federal status. Hard brext is the only safe option. The people of the UK were deceived from the get-go regarding the true aims of 'The Common Market'; we should learn, and not be fooled again.
We won't get fooled again.

Osem 11-04-2017 22:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
EUAndrew's going to pitch up in a while and claim it was all perfectly clear first time around but we were all confused second time around... :D

1andrew1 11-04-2017 22:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35894237)
Spot on.

They don't want to let us go now, even though we have voted to leave. If we stay loosely tied to the EU (soft Brexit), then they will concentrate on dragging us closer and closer, bit by bit, into federal status. Hard brext is the only safe option. The people of the UK were deceived from the get-go regarding the true aims of 'The Common Market'; we should learn, and not be fooled again.
No one knew that the Berlin Wall would fall but certainly it was explicit that the EEC was more than a trading block. Some people neglected to read the details or listen to the politicians and then moaned many years afterwards. And still are; it's habitual. First world countries are less about manufactured goods and more about services and that brings complexity.
But the UK would never get more deeply involved in the EU than it did. We said "non" to the Euro and "nein" to a single army. So not a single drop of evidence to support the UK having any deeper integration than we have at present.

passingbat 11-04-2017 23:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35894288)
No one knew that the Berlin Wall would fall but certainly it was explicit that the EEC was more than a trading block. Some people neglected to read the details or listen to the politicians .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35894287)
EUAndrew's going to pitch up in a while and claim it was all perfectly clear first time around

Well, you weren't wrong!

jonbxx 12-04-2017 09:19
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35894218)
Not in a practical, every day sense, whilst we are in the EU.


We can't independently, at will, change all laws, all taxes and EU immigration rules whilst still in the EU.


These three things are the heart of Sovereignty.
Apart from the over 14,000 international treaties we are members with, including over 130 double taxation treaties, UN treaties on migration and refugees, etc.

heero_yuy 12-04-2017 09:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
An acrimonious Brexit, in which Britain declines to honour its existing financial obligations could put pressure on the European Union's 'double A' rating, S&P Global said on Monday.

Having recently triggered the EU exit process, Britain's government is facing a request from the European Commission to honour its existing financial obligations, which reportedly could reach 60 billion euros.

S&P said the claims were unlikely to be legally enforceable however, and that the EU's rating could suffer if the UK didn't stump up the money.

"The European Union (AA-Stable/A-1+) ratings could come under pressure in an adverse scenario," S&P said.

"This is because our ratings on the EU are to a certain extent predicated on our expectation that the UK would honour its share of financial obligations to the EU."

It said a non-payment of obligations would not constitute a default by Britain.
Reuters

More bargaining power. :)

techguyone 12-04-2017 09:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35894288)
No one knew that the Berlin Wall would fall but certainly it was explicit that the EEC was more than a trading block. Some people neglected to read the details or listen to the politicians and then moaned many years afterwards. And still are; it's habitual. First world countries are less about manufactured goods and more about services and that brings complexity.
But the UK would never get more deeply involved in the EU than it did. We said "non" to the Euro and "nein" to a single army. So not a single drop of evidence to support the UK having any deeper integration than we have at present.
Back then, there was no internet, no vast access to information, no rolling 24 hr news. It was called the EEC and more popularly known as 'The Common Market'

E E C
European
Economic
community.

Nothing was terribly explicit at all in those days, do you think they changed the name to the EU for no reason?

It was to reflect the 'more than' a trading bloc

Were you even there back then?

Mr K 12-04-2017 09:43
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Keep posting Andrew, you're one of the few on here to post facts and not lower yourself to personal insults.

People have different points of view, time some people accepted that and just debated nicely.

papa smurf 12-04-2017 09:46
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35894305)
Reuters

More bargaining power. :)
:tu:

1andrew1 12-04-2017 09:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35894306)

Back then, there was no internet, no vast access to information, no rolling 24 hr news. It was called the EEC and more popularly known as 'The Common Market'

E E C
European
Economic
community.

Nothing was terribly explicit at all in those days, do you think they changed the name to the EU for no reason?

It was to reflect the 'more than' a trading bloc


Were you even there back then?
Someone's got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!
No matter, hopefully we can both agree with the following information:
https://fullfact.org/europe/ask-full...-then-and-now/

pip08456 12-04-2017 09:51
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35894311)
Someone's got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!
No matter, hopefully we can both agree with the following information:
https://fullfact.org/europe/ask-full...-then-and-now/
We can agree on this.
Quote:

“How does the current EU setup differ from what was put before the electorate in the 1970s referendum? I have heard that it was touted as simply a trade agreement.”

Full Fact readers

In 1975 the UK held a referendum on continued membership of the European Community.

This wasn’t presented just as a trade agreement. Other issues discussed at the time related to security, European funding for UK industries and regions, and aid to developing countries.

That’s not to say that anyone in 1975 knew what the EU would be like in 2016, or how much it would change in the following years.

techguyone 12-04-2017 10:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Pip, it would be interesting to know if the majority of leavers were old enough to remember the old common market and that era, which would be a a good take on 'fixing the errors of the previous ref'

and as pointed out, no one would have let it stand if they had seen it grow to the state it ended up in. Frankly anyone trying to fob off the present day EU to it's 1975 version is losing grip with reality.

I'll also add as the elephant(s) in the room, that EU law & immigration were most definitely not part of the discussion at all. Even the article tells us that.

Quote:
In 1975 the aims of the European Community largely concerned trade. The Treaty of Rome set these out and they relate to policies such as free movement, removing tariffs and the creation of the Common Agricultural Policy.


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