Re: Brexit
 

There is a cultural aspect too. In my experience of a number of nights out with my German colleagues in Germany talking about Brexit, many Germans feel that we are their natural kin in Europe. We are roughly similar in population, economy size and culture. There are differences of course but Germans are certainly amongst our closest 'relatives' in the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

That could be what they meant then.

Re: Brexit
 

I shouldn’t but I laughed out loud at that.

Re: Brexit
 

I have doubts about this ‘story’.

I have worked in many, many places, and I have never seen a security reader set at eye level - most readers are set between 900mm and 1050mm from the floor (as stated in BS8300:2009), to cater for those with disabilities; I have worked with disability advisors to ensure buildings, IT Services, and IT systems are appropriately accessible, and never fitted two separate readers.

Re: Brexit
 

They were referring to anything and everything that in their view protects and defends the European project.

Don’t forget that the project is the main means by which Germany has sought to make good its heinous crimes against humanity in the 20th century and to prove its worthy of inclusion in international affairs. The EU, as the project is currently called, is genuinely dear to their hearts and I don’t doubt that our leaving it causes them genuine pain.

None of that is to say that the EU will, in the long run, be the great unifying, peace-defining project the Germans imagine it to be. We must not forget that the EU as presently designed is the very reason that one of its biggest, richest and most globally influential members (and a major net contributor to the budget) has opted to leave.

It’s disappointing that the EU’s response to this is, as usual, “more Europe!” rather than honest reflection on how it came to this.

Re: Brexit
 

The world has moved on since 1945. Surely, the crimes committed by some before 1945 have no bearing on the current elected rulers of Germany. In terms of "more Europe" that was a UK initiative to act as a buffer against Russia. Hence one reason why Russia was keen on Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

And yet on this thread, leave supporters have been branded Empire lovers, and the UK’s colonial past is consistently thrown back in our faces. So obviously the world hasn’t moved on when it comes the UK.

We had our dark moments but i don’t believe genocide was one of them.

A UK initiative? I assume you have the detail to back that up?

Re: Brexit
 

You know 4 million Indians died in the 1943 famine, partly because we diverted so much of their food to our war effort and iirc all Churchill said was "it's their own fault for breeding like rabbits", the Boer concentration camps were a pretty dark period to

Re: Brexit
 

I'm going back to the 1990's when I was a Local Government Officer; the building manager did it as a dwarf worked in the office, but others found it difficult to use.

Quoting measurements for this really is a new height of pedantism, but in the end you have two choices as to whether you believe it or not.

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

A woman suffering from dwarfism worked in the office, so I guess he was taking her needs into consideration and future proofing should any wheelchair using staff join the workforce.

---------- Post added at 10:40 ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 ----------

Well, I have heard it said the the existence of the EU has prevented wars because it would be very difficult to declare war on an EU partner.

How true it is in reality, I don't know.

Re: Brexit
 

Nope, majority of UK electorate was keen on Brexit.

But Russia has every right to feel threatened by a power hungry and corrupted EU, trying to expand and now grow an EU Army.

Re: Brexit
 

In reality, it’s not true at all.

The military threat post 1945 was Soviet Russia. We made a Faustian deal with Stalin in order to defeat Germany that ended up with most of the nation states of Eastern Europe, and the east of partitioned Germany, becoming vassal states of the greater Russian empire. There was a very real threat that the Soviets would evangelise their communist way of life further westwards, at gunpoint, or at the very least that they would preemptively strike against the West if it looked like the Allied powers were planning to continue their own march of liberation eastwards.

For the first few years after world war 2 fatigue prevented any of this from happening. Afterwards, the existence of nuclear arms, and the NATO and Warsaw alliances that threatened reprisals for an attack on any individual member, prevented it.

The European Union is supposed to prevent another conventional conflict along the lines of the two world wars by making France and Germany co-dependent. Sadly, because that’s what the EU is for, and because there hasn’t been another world war, a great many euro-evangelists commit the post hoc logical fallacy of assuming that the EU must have been responsible.

Re: Brexit
 

Planned visit to china by the chancellor for trade talks has been cancelled as they aren't happy about his speech where he mentioned putting an aircraft carrier into the Pacific:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47264476

Re: Brexit
 

... which has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. :confused:

Please remember this is a topic-based discussion forum ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Not sure I get the logic of Germany atoning for trying to dominate Europe, have a single European Army, currency, government, Foreign policy, etc, and use the EU to achieve just those very things.:confused:



The recent TV series of "Inside Europe: 10 years of turmoil" clearly demonstrated time and again, that when Germany and France say jump, you are expected to jump.

Re: Brexit
 

You need to learn to read reports correctly. The Chancellor has never mentioned putting an aircraft carrier into the pacific.

The Defence secretary mentioned HMS Queen Elizabeth would be deployed there as well as the middle east and the med as part of its maiden voyage which is not a military deployment per se.

No trip to China has been announced or confirmed either.

Re: Brexit
 

I assumed that this was an attempt to obtain a trade deal for when we leave the EU.

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

No, it was never officially confirmed that is true.

PIease note that I sometimes make mistakes due to cognitive issues.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Corbyn isn't particularly bright and couldn't run a whelk stall.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/...rbyn-crack-up/

To be fair, my opinion of Teresa May is even lower.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

To be fair RR l agree with your sentiments one hundred per cent.:tu:

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

I think that this is a seminal post from you, Den. Everyone seems to be criticising Theresa May but totally ignoring the almost impossible task she faces. She does not have a majority in Parliament, all other factions (the remainers, the Labour Party, the ERG...) keep laying man traps to disrupt what she is trying to achieve, and of course the EU itself.

The referendum result was to leave. It was Theresa May who put forward the idea of a withdrawal agreement as a bridge between where we are now and where we want to be. Unfortunately, certain factions have used this against her and have deliberately muddied the waters. Had she not suggested the withdrawal agreement, I am sure the process of leaving the EU without such an agreement would have just gone through!

The Brexit people voted for, when you look at it, was a hard Brexit. Theresa was the woman with a plan. That is now being used against her.

There is absolutely no-one else with the balls to see this through, as you have acknowledged, Den. Credit where credit is due, don't you think?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

You sure a withdrawal agreement was May's idea OB?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Her choice - she had a majority, called a snap election and her stated reason was to strengthen her hand in Brexit negotiations

Her call - the blame for all this is on her.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

If the MP's cannot decide than give the people another referendum and let us the people decide.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

That's totally sensible and democratic but according to some views it's anti democratic :confused:

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Letting the people decide is what got us in this mess in the first place, who'd trust them again. I propose a legally binding best of three competition of rock, paper, scissors to break the deadlock

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Here in Scotland the result wasn’t all that bad. We got rid of both Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond. Not bad for one night’s work.

The national outcome is difficult, granted, but at the same time the parliamentary maths may have contributed to a harder Brexit deal than if she had been able to guarantee waving whatever she brought back from Brussels through on a massive majority. So I’m happy about that, and to be frank I’ll be even happier if the parliamentary arithmetic leads to us leaving without any deal at all.

I believe the short term upheaval will finally concentrate minds in the Treasury, and in the European Commission, and negotiating a final relationship with the EU under such circumstances would be better for us than with the threat of the Backstop hanging over us. If London starts looking like Singapore-on-Thames for even five minutes, certain Eurozone economies will start quaking in their boots, and Varadkar will finally start to understand that pizzing off your closest neighbour, whom you rely on for masses of trade and through-transport to most of the rest of your markets, is generally a very bad idea.

---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:47 ----------

Oh and just so this stays on topic ... no, she mustn’t. That would be extraordinarily silly this close to 29 March.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

And there is only one person you can blame for that don't you agree?

---------- Post added at 05:56 ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 ----------

If she had a decent enough majority that would not be as much as a problem and as for the ERG well if you don't deal with *******s as John Major called them those *******s will inevitably bring you down.

---------- Post added at 06:01 ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 ----------

l have never once moaned about the referendum result but that was never a problem for me but the problem has been the complete omnishambles since that night and anybody who does not think that is obviously living in cloud cuckoo land.

---------- Post added at 06:03 ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 ----------

Theresa May could not organise a piss up in a brewery that much is the case thus shown so far.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

You could say this is the third option.
1st in 1973
2nd 2016
3rd 2019

Unless May resigns I cannot see her being replaced by any of the current crowd as none want the poisoned chalice of Brexit. Although Gove does seem to be playing things close to his chest, he is one to watch if she does resign.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

But surely if the case for Leave was that strong, it would be a walkover?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Especially as people know more now

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

... which has all the intellectual integrity of yelling “what’s the matter? Chicken?” in someone’s face.

We had a democratic vote, which all sides went into understanding that the government had pledged to implement the outcome. We then had a general election, in which both main parties pledged in their manifestos to implement the outcome.

At some point, it starts to be *un*democratic to keep going back to the country over the same question, because it looks very much like an attempt to over-ride multiple choices for one outcome with a single result for the other. And seeing as our system of government relies on legitimate elections whose outcomes are mutually respected by winners and losers alike, the supposed short-term gain of settling the Brexit question risks long-term damage to our democratic process

As it happens, I don’t believe that any outcome of any second referendum would settle the issue anyway, and even if it did settle it (for now), all that would be achieved would be a dangerous precedent encouraging the government to manipulate the political situation after a referendum so as to make the consequences look unpalatable and give them a chance to reverse an inconvenient result.

There are plenty who think (and I am one of them) that the EU has had every incentive to make Brexit look impossibly hard because it is so accustomed to member states re-running referendums when they deliver the “wrong” result, that it has found it nigh on impossible not to proceed on the assumption that the same thing would happen here.

---------- Post added at 16:56 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

I have merged “Teresa May must resign” into the main Brexit thread, because there’s no way it was ever going to remain a distinctive topic of its own.

Re: Brexit
 

If . . and it's probably a laughable if . . it was decided to hold a second referendum, could someone place a rough timing on how long before we'd get to vote in it?

Would the Government in all honesty dare to run another referendum with different options, and not the simple 'Stay or Leave' like the first one? Putting Mays deal as an option would surely alienate a vast majority of public & Parliament I think.

After two years of going nowhere, would anything change if the result was Leave again?

Re: Brexit
 

There isn't going to be another referendum I don't think. There isn't a strong enough mandate evident in the electorate for one that makes it a compelling enough case for either of the main parties to back it. There is rather consistent polling that shows Remain has moved ahead but when these polls are examined its mostly voter churn, i.e more young people entering the electorate and those getting older still not changing their minds.

I think for those people efforts are better spent concentrating on what the next goals are. We have General Elections, maybe one this year, to change the country and there is nothing stopping the next Government from prioritising deals with Europe, our migration policy, workers rights or whatever else there is.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Not really...

It has all the intellectual rigour of two and a half years of being further informed of the complexities and potential outcomes of a decision, rather than just ‘yes’ or ‘no’.

btw, re the "What’s the matter - chicken?" analogy, isn’t it the Leavers who are saying it’s OK to jump without knowing the outcome or potential issues?

Re: Brexit
 

FFS, I see we are going over old ground Hugh. :zzz:

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Or, two and a half years in which a whole section of the British and European political establishment has worked overtime on making it look excessively complex, in the hope, if not expectation, that an eventual impasse might result in a second referendum in which that complexity could be weaponised.

The referendum campaign was fought in 2016. The Remain campaign had its chance to elucidate the complexities and risks of various post-Brexit scenarios, just as the Leave campaign had the chance to set out some of the possible opportunities. We listened, we decided, we voted. No matter how complex the implementation, the imperative to actually do the implementation is really very simple.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

People know nothing new - people know what they knew then, no new information has come to light that was said during the campaigns, only pathetic scaremongering rubbish, is coming from the folk who refuse to accept the legitimate result of the Referendum.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

I stand corrected, thank you Pip.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

British democracy at it’s best, she took the electorate for granted and got her comeuppance, A bit like the Remain side did in the referendum, only she hasn’t complained about it and got on with it.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

They already decided.

---------- Post added at 18:59 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------

So we need all future results confirmed twice do we?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

She was badly advised and those advisers got their cumuppence.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-disastrous/

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Badly advised she might of been but she had the final say when it came to the decision so the buck stops with her , No ifs , no buts , no maybes.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

You've only got to look at the people replying to this thread, there's at least three I've seen say they voted leave but if they knew what it'd entail they'd have voted remain, so it's untrue people know nothing new and I'll also point out I posted pre referendum that I'd have to reluctantly vote remain as I didn't have enough information on it and I wasn't the only person here that said that either, even in the tiny world of cable forum your notion that people know nothing new doesn't ring true.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Wow, “at least” three! I mean based on that.....well, you only have look........at least three. Speaks volumes doesn’t it?

That just highlights that there are ignorant and lazy people out there, it doesn’t prove that there wasn’t enough information available. There was plenty.

I respect your decision, but my only issue is with the word “reluctantly”? That’s like saying I loved somebody but I reluctantly dumped him as although I loved him, I didn’t love him enough to find out enough about him.

Or even worse it’s like saying I reluctantly married someone, because I didn’t do the homework.

The information was there, available for all.

Re: Brexit
 

Leave campaigners promised voters that the German motor industry would send a strong signal in the event of Brexit. This information was available for all but I'm not sure this is the outcome the campaigners promised us.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47270616

Re: Brexit
 

The issue never was, and very much shouldn't be, "how difficult is it to leave?".


It was about what has happened(some of it unforeseeable), and what would happen if we stayed.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Exactly, I didn't look and remembered three of the top of my head, of a tiny little site like this, with even tinier numbers replying to the thread and nice attempt to move the goal posts, it was said no one had nothing new, well they have for a start

No there wasn't, I asked questions on here back then that still haven't been answered, some have only been answered due to the passage of time which hardly equates to information having been out there

Your analogy is ridiculous and not worth commenting on

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Good to see justice being done. There is absolutely no excuse for attacking ambulance staff, which I assume what "emergency worker" is.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47270935

Re: Brexit
 

Bloody hell, that is exactly what the Leave campaign was saying. German cars would be more expensive. Which would result on pressure to the German government to sort out a deal.

---------- Post added at 22:46 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

Pointless then.

Because it’s right and you can’t argue against it.

Go to bed, it’s late.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Or perhaps, just perhaps, it is complex and it’s easier to try and blame "others" than accept that complexity...

Re: Brexit
 

That promise was wrong then and it's wrong now. So people may have had a lot of information... but how correct was it?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...deal-happened/

Re: Brexit
 

That extra 10% won't go to Porsche or the EU, it will go to the UK Treasury.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

That's certainly the playbook of Lord Digby-Jones. Loved the response of one Twitter user to it "Is that plan similar to my plan to win an Olympic 100m gold medal, which requires everyone else to stand still and let me win?"
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1095234163379261440

---------- Post added at 23:55 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

That might have been because they were told to regard such advices as "Project Fear" and to ignore it.

Re: Brexit
 

... if, and only if, HMG decides to slap tariffs on car imports, which it would be under no obligation to do.

The EU’s common external tariff on vehicles is 10%. But we are leaving the customs union for the exact purpose of no longer having to follow EU customs rules.

Unlike the good old days of British Leyland, we don’t have an indigenous car manufacturing base that relies on domestic sales and is vulnerable to imports. By and large, vehicles are manufactured in the UK by foreign companies as part of a broader international strategy. Zero-rating duty on car imports would not harm those operations and in fact by encouraging reciprocal arrangements would probably help them.

On the morning of 30 March, if there is No Deal, we will be free to design our own customs rules for cars which support our own transport and/or environmental strategy. Or, to help mitigate the short-term economic shock of No Deal, we could just slash tariffs on just about everything.

We will have sovereign control over our affairs and that’s the whole point of Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

Similar taxes will be applied to British-built Nissans being exported to the EU in the event of no-deal. When prices rise, demand tends to fall.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

People also forget, Article 50 was triggered when there was a Tory Majority government, with seemingly not even a sketch of a plan for Brexit.

Then one election later, we have a minority Tory government propped up by bribing the DUP into a confidence & supply arrangement, seemingly hell bent on leaving. May being so controlling over the process, parliament were issued with almost a fait accompli that they could not support.

So we are seemingly hanging over a precipice of a No Deal Brexit, which for some reason the hard Leavers are bizarrely claiming "every one of the 17.4 million voted for".

We this is not what I voted for when I voted Leave, and have definitely changed my mind.

Re: Brexit
 

No because it's wrong and a stupid statement, according to your analogy I'd love the EU if I were married to it, when quite the opposite is true, I'm no fan at all, never have been.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Stop using terms “Hard leavers”, there is no such thing. Follow first post rules or stay out of this thread !!!

No need to keep repeating yourself that you are, a few handful of people who did not know meaning leaving the EU, meant exactly that. :rolleyes:

While you go on about there being a minority government, there has been several Amendment votes on extending A50, every vote lost. Cooper/Boles - Grieve Amendment. etc.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

She was persuaded she could increase her majority which would assist her with Brexit. Yes, she agreed to it, for very good reason, but it seemed like a good strategy at the time. It should be clear to you the difficulties in getting Brexit through Parliament with insufficient votes.

The social care issue scuppered the plan, unfortunately.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

You've gone from none at all to a few, I suspect the number is far greater, in fact I'd bet there is a greater number who didn't know what leaving the eu would entail than did and who can blame them, no one campaigned to leave without a deal, we were told we'd get a better deal than the one we had, it's probably why people split the leave group into moderates who want a deal and hard liners who don't.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

No such thing as a hardliner. If you voted to leave the EU and we leave it in it's entirety, then you're just a leaver. No hard, no extremes about it whatsoever. If you leave your car, you don't leave it hard, you just leave it, if you leave your house, you don't leave it hard, you just leave it.

No - I stand by that the "few people" might as well be none at all.

Who knows - who cares?

All irrelevant, we had a referendum, one of the largest Democratic processes in modern British history - there is no new information, except blatant scaremongering.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

:tu:

Re: Brexit
 

LBC is covering the departure from Labour of 7 MPs, disaffected with Labour’s position on the EU and anti-semitism.

I don’t think this is going to alter much in the bigger picture because the Brexit vote was about change whereas on Brexit this lot are forvRemain.

But it’s good to see Corbyn being taken apart for the Marxist anti-Semite that he is.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Here we go again the leavers didn't know what they were voting for! P-lease, don't you ever give up? When I voted in the referendum, I used all my cognitive skills to work out that leaving the EU actually meant leaving.

I presume you did realise that a vote to stay in the EU meant staying?

Let us stop this nonsense and accept that most people did understand what they were voting for. The fact is, we voted to leave in the biggest voter turnout ever. This debate would be more productive if we put these old insults to bed and started figuring out how to make the best of Brexit. It's going to happen, like it or not, because that is the democratic will of the people.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

No, let's not, just because you and SOME other people made a cognitive decision does not mean at all that MOST people made the decision by the same process. The same applies to those in the remain group.

A percentage of the electorate are as thick as a whale omelette. regardless of their voting history. So, lets not play everyone made an informed decision because they most certainly didn't.

The discussion on this board is not representative of society as a whole as almost all of the posters regardless of their position operate at higher intelligence (both in IQ and also emotional intelligence) than the nation as a whole.


And since you can see into the future,I'll this take this weeks lottery numbers thanks. The current position is for Brexit to happen, that doesn't mean that it can't or won't change.

Re: Brexit
 

... that being the case, surely the ill-informed remainers cancel out the ill-informed leavers, and owing to their whale omelette thickness, they will vote thickly no matter how many times the vote is re-run.

So what’s the point re-running it on the premise that people are now better informed? There was a thorough debate in 2016, it would be no different again.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

As usual its the same patronising gibberish that OB thinks he is superior in his decision making then others on this forum as each of us made our decision on the information that was at hand whether it was one way or the other and everybody should be shown some respect for the personal decisions they made at the end of it whether they voted to remain or to leave..

Re: Brexit
 

It does indeed cancel it out, I think some people on boths sides of the camp may have a greater knowledge. Were a 2nd referendum to happen some previous remainers may change view because of their views on the EU's behavior. Some remain may change because of how they see things unfolding.

It would be still be close run however.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Actually we will, if I so.

It is very insulting to say one group of voters did not know what they were voting for when there was plenty of information indicating what it bloody meant.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

No Den that is totally wrong - it's actually some Remainers who think they are superior by insisting they had a better understanding than the leavers. They had equal amounts of knowledge.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

I think you should read my post again, I said quite clearly that it applied to both camps, not just leave... So not insulting at all. Apology accepted in advance.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

No l would say there are some on both sides that think they that they were superior in insisting they had a better understanding then others as in this country we need to get away from the stereotypical its them or us attitude if ever this country is ever to heal the divisions that we currently have in this country and from where l am looking there seems zero chance of that happening.

My problems have never been with the democratic referendum vote but what has followed since.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Hmm. Disputable. The Swindon Honda car workers didn't think their factory would close due to Brexit. It is now. Very sad news.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603
https://news.sky.com/story/honda-to-...ctory-11641154

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Den, I applaud you. :clap:

People trying to impose a simplistic, binary revisionist interpretation on the recent past. We all know what really happened so we can all ignore such rubbish.

We have the dogma driven ideologues both on the left and right that look like they are taking this country into a place where most of the population will not want to be when they arrive.

We have the disingenuous "Didn't we say you would be poorer? So sorry" No Dealers. The ones that, almost to a man would be financially insulated from the fallout, who are gleefully anticipating the amoral free market paradise that they wish to form. A Singapore 2.0 if you wish. They are snake oil salesman: "Of course, the pain will only be short lived, trust me"

Then you have the King of Clowns, Mr Corbyn. He who dreams of being free from the EU constraints that would stop him creating a dogma driven hard left disaster of a country.

The only consolation is that sooner or later, once this debacle plays out, we will vote to rejoin the EU but on much poorer terms.

Revenge is a dish best served cold :)

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Not 100% partially Brexit because manufacture in Japan can currently guarantee tariff free deals with the EU BUT Honda's European headquarters will remain in the UK

How many automotive manufacturing jobs have been lost or are due to be lost in the UK in the past/next six months? Are we up too about 12,000ish so far ? All of which have Brexit at some part entwined in their reasoning.

These job loses of course would have happened anyway, so say the soothsayers.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

"Sometimes the best revenge is to smile and walk away"

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Is there anyway for you to show that even if we were to remain in the EU that Japanese companies would not repatriate jobs to Japan now that there is a free trade deal with the EU in place?

Have you considered that employment rules and regulations in Japan may make it more profitable to those companies to repatriate jobs?

It is never a plain simple "its because of or partly due to" Brexit.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

That's what happened here

Tory Brexiter suddenly leaves interview after being confronted about incorrect Marshall Plan claims
https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brex...marshall-plan/

and here

Britain's richest person to leave UK for tax-free Monaco
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ax-free-monaco

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: Brexit
 

Seems to me that, with all the car manufacturers running away, there's a great opportunity for some 'home grown' product

Hillman Minx, Austin Allegro ? :D :D

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

B****$ks

An interview was terminated as it was not on the subject requested.

Yet another wealthy person has gone to a tax haven.

What have either to do with Brexit????

Re: Brexit
 

You forgot about the trusty reliable Hillman Imp.;)

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Nothing directly but here's a couple of interesting points from that article. The fact that people perhaps listened to and trusted his views for leaving.


Ratcliffe describes himself as a lover of Britain

Yet, earlier in the same article....

In an interview with the Sunday Times to celebrate his success as “Britain’s most successful businessman”, Ratcliffe said: “What’s the reason to invest in the UK? Our skills are not great. We’ve got to deal with unions. We’re isolated from Europe. We’ve got logistical costs. Low tax rates help, but cheap energy could really help create those manufacturing jobs we need.”

The we're isolated from Europe i find particularly interesting. Because we all know that Brexit will draw us closer to the bosom of the EU.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

I care, you say you care greatly about our democracy, well I say those two campaigns were an insult to democracy and if any good can come out of them it's that electioneering like that is never allowed to happen again

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

So why are remainers so against it?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Because it doesn’t make fiscal or manufacturing sense - they would be adding six weeks to the delivery time (shipping time Japan to Europe), and they would have to vastly expand the Just In Time supply chain for the car parts to build the car.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Why are remainers so against what? Sorry, you've lost me.

The man has clearly stated that one reason NOT to invest in the UK is due to it's distance from Europe, now, that could be logistically or it could be distance we don't know.

The same man then is a prominent advocate for a process which may well distance ourselves further from the EU (in the logistical sense)

You don't see a correlation as to how this is to do with Brexit ?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

It does look like the secret sources of social media electioneering are starting to be investigated. Will be cold comfort to find out who was behind the micro targeting after we career off the cliff, when it is too late.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

I did quote the relevant part of your post but as you missed it here it is again.

If you don't even understand what you are posting how do you expect anyone else to?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Any need for personal digs?

That particular part of the post was sarcasm.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Exactly, Hugh. Rocket science this certainly ain't!

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Try reading what you are replying to before having a personal dig about sarcasm.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Is it down to Brexit?

Or is it down to the FTA Japan just signed with the EU which means they no longer have to have a presence in the EU to sell their cars tariff free. So they can take their manufacturing back to the UK reduce costs, employ Japanese workers and boost their own economy.

In Free Trade Globalisation, there are winners and losers.

This would have happened regardless of Brexit.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------

not an issue You think they don’t have supply chain in Japan?

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

"vastly expand"...

Not something that can be done easily to a complex JIT supply chain in a short time period.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Depends on how long and complex the JIT supply chain. I doubt very much they will be using EU manufacturers for their supply chain. Most likely "in house" as they used to or in Japan.

Won't bother the EU though as they don't need the UK and Brexit won't lead to EU job losses.Sarcasm.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

We still, for one month, have better connections with the EU than Japan do now. Not only tariff free but the same market, they can move cars and parts across the EU as easily as we can move them from Glasgow to Cardiff. We're also much closer, Just put the goods on a lorry and it can be in France in no time.

Yes in a globalised market we're competing with other countries and this might have happened anyway but we have just given away a massive advantage we had.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

We have given away nothing. The EU may have done so if the free trade deal now makes it more profitable for Japan to manufacture "in house".

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

Nope. There is an engine plant in Swindon too. To qualify for trade deals, a car must be of 55% local content At the moment, local content means EU.

Re: Theresa May must resign
 

The EU-Japan FTA's tariff reduction on cars is phased over 8-years. From 10%; 8.8% (this year); 7.5%; 6.3%; 5.0% (Swindon closure); 3.8%; 2.5%; 1.3%; 0.0%(yr 2026).

Shipping vehicles across the world even without tariffs is cripplingly expensive, you can just about justify it for high margin vehicles - very difficult with low margin family cars. Even just the cost of "capital on the water" runs in to the hundreds of millions. 6 week shipping time from Japan is nearly £1/4 billion of capital tied up on boats.

Re: Brexit
 

hmis post