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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

BadPhormula 30-05-2008 14:31
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34563471)
There's a thought...

Which reminds me that I need to get some more stamps.


I had another idea - it's addressed to 'the occupier', so what if I just RTS it saying 'no longer at this address'? That'll confuse them :P
Yes and to confuse them a little bit more. Open the letter first, no not with a nice sharp letter opener, kick it open with an old boot or use a tin opener etc etc then seal it up with some old chewing gum off the bottom of your boot or sew it up with a needle and thread (bright coloured thread works best)... That'll show the ph~ckers you mean business :D

jca111 30-05-2008 14:36
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadPhormula (Post 34563495)
Yes and to confuse them a little bit more. Open the letter first, no not with a nice sharp letter opener, kick it open with an old boot or use a tin opener etc etc then seal it up with some old chewing gum off your boot or sew it up with a needle and thread (bright coloured thread works best)... That'll show the ph~ckers you mean business :D
I used to work in a mailing house, it will just get chucked in the bin by someone on minimum wage who don't give a stuff!

gnilddif 30-05-2008 14:45
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34563094)
I've referenced this post over on BT Beta forums.

My new tag when communicating with BT/Phorm

"We're watching you, watching us"
I just referenced it too in the Computer and Internet Security BT Beta forum :)
g

icsys 30-05-2008 14:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I have posted about the BT AGM protest on the DS forums with a link to http://nodpi.org/ to spark some interest. post 191

Unfortunately apathy to webwise seems to prevail over there at the moment.

BadPhormula 30-05-2008 14:55
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jca111 (Post 34563498)
I used to work in a mailing house, it will just get chucked in the bin by someone on minimum wage who don't give a stuff!
Bah! Humbug. It's the fun in doing something outrageous that gives you a giggle that's the important thing, not what some cabbage might do to it.

I don't think ITVs latest savage satire "Headcases" effects any of their victims to modify their ludicrous behaviour, but it gives millions of viewers the opportunity to laugh at this distortion of 'normal' behaviour.

serial 30-05-2008 15:39
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Alex, best if you can put up some content on:
http://nodpi.org/

Or a plain "poster" page of details.

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 15:46
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serial (Post 34563548)
Alex, best if you can put up some content on:
http://nodpi.org/

Or a plain "poster" page of details.
I will do this evening, I have just been finishing off my last piece of Uni work and will be handing it in shortly. Then after a relaxing meal with my family I will get on with sorting out the web site.

Alexander Hanff

tdadyslexia 30-05-2008 15:53
Re: Emailing police
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563334)
Don't worry about this, I will soon have some evidence that the police will not be able to contest (by soon I mean next week). I can't give too many details at the moment, but rest assured, it is the golden egg.

Alexander Hanff
Kant wate to see watt you have instore for the police next week. Come on Alexander give us a Hint. :hyper:

---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 15:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34563352)
On the subject of police inaction, would this work?

If a draught letter could be created that quote the relevant laws etc., then all people would have to do would be to put their own name and address on the top, hand it in at their local station, and get a crime number.

The more people who do that, the more unsolved crime numbers get added to the system..

They want to play by quotas? Let's use their own game against them.
That Sounds Brilliant Lets Do It! :hyper: :hyper:

jelv 30-05-2008 16:06
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
When is/was Phorm's AGM?

Rchivist 30-05-2008 16:27
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jelv (Post 34563599)
When is/was Phorm's AGM?
The shares ARE very cheap at the moment ;)

jca111 30-05-2008 16:32
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34563607)
The shares ARE very cheap at the moment ;)
We could all by 1 share each - and then go to the AGM - got to be worth losing £11 over?

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 16:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I am contemplating inviting Kent to the protest as a guest speaker, what do you lot think?

Alexander Hanff

BadPhormula 30-05-2008 17:02
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563629)
I am contemplating inviting Kent to the protest as a guest speaker, what do you lot think?

Alexander Hanff
Great idea.


Okay soldiers, for those of you that think a full bucket of custard would be too conspicuous for concealing about your person consider smaller projectiles such as eggs and tomatoes (bag of flour too if you're planning on a cake mix). Let Alex give the secret signal while he gets out of the way then WHAM!


...Ok back to Alex ;)

Yes Alex we'd love to have him along.

mark777 30-05-2008 17:03
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563629)
I am contemplating inviting Kent to the protest as a guest speaker, what do you lot think?

Alexander Hanff
I don't think for one minute he would come. However, if he did, as an invited speaker we would need to let him have his say. If we didn't, we would look bad.

He could just give his spiel and walk away. We wouldn't gain much from that. Someone might be temped to lob an egg or something, and we wouldn't gain from that either.

I don't think there is much to gain by his attendance.

It's him who wants to 'engage' with us. We don't want to engage with him.

(Maybe as Nelson would have it, "Engage with the enemy more closely" but only to sink them!)

tdadyslexia 30-05-2008 17:03
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563629)
I am contemplating inviting Kent to the protest as a guest speaker, what do you lot think?

Alexander Hanff
No, No, No, No, Don't Do It! Alexander :shocked:

vicz 30-05-2008 17:04
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Better still, ask him to sponsor the event...

Rchivist 30-05-2008 17:05
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563629)
I am contemplating inviting Kent to the protest as a guest speaker, what do you lot think?

Alexander Hanff
Make sure he gets plenty of time to speak, and that someone trustworthy is video-ing it, recording it on audio, and taking it down in shorthand. There should be plenty to work on if he speaks for 15 minutes. ;)

bluecar1 30-05-2008 17:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563629)
I am contemplating inviting Kent to the protest as a guest speaker, what do you lot think?

Alexander Hanff
i think you should invite the BT retail chairman to explain his stance and ask why BT think this spy system is a good idea

peter

JackSon 30-05-2008 17:42
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Perhaps worth extending an invite to the counterparts at both VM and CPW as well

icsys 30-05-2008 17:50
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34563659)
i think you should invite the BT retail chairman to explain his stance and ask why BT think this spy system is a good idea

peter
That actually is a good idea. Invite all the top execs.
If they decline the offer, any press there will surely raise questions as to why they don't want the opportunity.

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 18:44
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
OK I have some info up on nodpi.org now.
I just need to find a decent theme for Wordpress.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:04 ----------

Digg This!

http://digg.com/tech_news/No_DPI_web..._Protest_Event

Alexander Hanff

CWH 30-05-2008 19:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Well, after my -long - snail-mail with attachments to the ICO at the beginning of April, I have finally had a reply.
In essence:
Your complaint was passed to one of our casework teams, who deemed it important enough for it to be allocated to a case worker. The case worker will, after further investigations, be in contact with you regarding what further steps may be taken in this matter.

Just maybe, all the complaints, with detailed comments and evidence, are having a positive affect, (from our point-of-view).

Colin

Hank 30-05-2008 19:14
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jelv (Post 34563258)
They objected to the pages being reported as phishing and strongly denied this was the case. However the fact that they've changed them so quickly proves one thing: they know they were in the wrong.
Well, it proves that they don't employ the right people... because if there are people here who could have advised them of this issue then there are people elsewhere who could have done so... they just aren't being employed by BT. Either that, or they have got skilled people they just are not listening to!

Begs the question, what is a PIA for? Or perhaps, should have organised a PIA sooner to work through all this and prevent the mess they are in now!

Hank

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34563252)
this morning the BT Webwise contact.php page
http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
is redesigned with two submission options
for contacting or complaining!
Both now point with url links to contact forms on bt.custhelp.com locations which is different from yesterday where they were javascript and ended up with ww3.phorm.com via a webwise.bt.com location
It was offering those two choices last night. I looked when I saw you/others saying the page had moved from the Phorm/US hosted box over to the IBM UK box. Hank.

serial 30-05-2008 19:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563629)
I am contemplating inviting Kent to the protest as a guest speaker, what do you lot think?
Alexander Hanff
Kent does come out with the greatest quotes though, but it's probably a bad idea.

A more controversial guest IMO would be Simon Davies, what do people think?
I'd prefer another representative of PI if any are willing to join us speaking out against Phorm/BT.

Cogster 30-05-2008 19:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serial (Post 34563757)
Kent does come out with the greatest quotes though, but it's probably a bad idea.

A more controversial guest IMO would be Simon Davies, what do people think?
I'd prefer another representative of PI if any are willing to join us speaking out against Phorm/BT.
Tim Berners-Lee would be good..

serial 30-05-2008 19:28
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Alex, have you asked the ORG?

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 19:32
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serial (Post 34563774)
Alex, have you asked the ORG?
I will be talking to Becky from ORG over the weekend.

I have also added a donate button to the nodpi website to try and raise some funds for a PA and generator for the event (plus printing fliers etc.).

Alexander Hanff

PS. Now I am going to eat :p

Paul Delaney 30-05-2008 19:34
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34563659)
i think you should invite the BT retail chairman to explain his stance and ask why BT think this spy system is a good idea

peter
That'll be a very short speech!

You'd have got more information out of Marcel Marceau

(if he was still with us that is)


:)

Hank 30-05-2008 19:49
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSon (Post 34563666)
Perhaps worth extending an invite to the counterparts at both VM and CPW as well
Invite Richard Branson over. PR opportunity for him to say somethiung along the lines of you're right, we got it wrong, the Virgin brand stands for what people want and we're not going down the same route as our competitors.

They'll have a generator Alexander, a nice big red one with a logo all over it.

Well, one can dream that there is an ISP somewhere out there who is a big player and not up for this activity...

Hank

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWH (Post 34563742)
Well, after my -long - snail-mail with attachments to the ICO at the beginning of April, I have finally had a reply.
In essence:
Your complaint was passed to one of our casework teams, who deemed it important enough for it to be allocated to a case worker. The case worker will, after further investigations, be in contact with you regarding what further steps may be taken in this matter.

Just maybe, all the complaints, with detailed comments and evidence, are having a positive affect, (from our point-of-view).

Colin
That's what I got too CWH.

Did you get a second piece of paper in the envelope with the timescales you might hope to wait before you get an "outcome" letter sent to you? If I remember correctly it was something like "a very long time" :D

Hank

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 20:35
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
We need more Diggs people.

Alexander Hanff

warescouse 30-05-2008 20:38
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdadyslexia (Post 34563638)
No, No, No, No, Don't Do It! Alexander :shocked:
I was only joking when I said invite him on el reg. I don't think the bad publicity we would get pelting him with eggs would be beneficial.

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 20:41
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I was actually joking about inviting Kent. I agree in the unlikely event that he does turn up, it is even more unlikely he would escape without a need to visit the dry cleaners.

Alexander Hanff

serial 30-05-2008 20:42
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Does anyone know exactly where the AGM will be held at the barbican, the place is a bit of a maze with 3 seperate buildings?

Ravenheart 30-05-2008 20:47
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serial (Post 34563853)
Does anyone know exactly where the AGM will be held at the barbican, the place is a bit of a maze with 3 seperate buildings?
From the BT site AGM 2008

The 2008 AGM will be held at the Barbican Centre, Silk Street, London EC2Y 8DS on 16 July 2008, at 10.30 am. Doors open at 9.30am to the shareholder helpdesk, for questions and queries, and to the reception area which will include a display of BT’s services.

The Barbican Centre

Hope this helps

serial 30-05-2008 20:50
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
So we all just head to the main entrance.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2008/05/3.gif

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 20:56
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
OK who has a login to moneysavingexpert.com ???

I know someone started a thread there recently, please can you add a post about the protest event with a link to the Digg article as below:

http://digg.com/tech_news/No_DPI_web..._Protest_Event

Ask people to Digg it, I really want to see this make the front page.

Also any other forums where people have started threads, please do the same, including the BT Beta forum if possible.

Florence, could you cover it on ISPReview forums?

Lets try and get this news out there, there is only so much I can do on my own and only so many press contacts in my list, so the more people push news of this event around the better.

I want that Digg article to hit 300 Diggs in the next 2 hours please. Lets not have any arguments about "I don't have a Digg account", I don't have a lot of things but I go out of my way to try and keep this issue in the public eye, so really for the sake of 2 minutes to register and 1 click to Digg it, there is no excuse really.

Everyone here should be Digging these stories, that is one way people can really help spread the word.

Alexander Hanff

davidb24v 30-05-2008 21:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563865)
Ask people to Digg it, I really want to see this make the front page.
Ok, I've just signed up for the digg thingy. Still haven't got a clue how to "digg" stuff. Is it this? :dig: :confused:

It must be a young person thing - better block it in the work firewall on Monday then :D

Dave

JohnHorb 30-05-2008 21:22
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563865)
OK who has a login to moneysavingexpert.com ???

I know someone started a thread there recently, please can you add a post about the protest event with a link to the Digg article as below:

http://digg.com/tech_news/No_DPI_web..._Protest_Event

Ask people to Digg it, I really want to see this make the front page.
Done

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 21:24
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidb24v (Post 34563886)
Ok, I've just signed up for the digg thingy. Still haven't got a clue how to "digg" stuff. Is it this? :dig: :confused:

It must be a young person thing - better block it in the work firewall on Monday then :D

Dave
You just need to click on the little Icon that says "Digg" when you go to the story, once you have clicked it the icon will change to say "Dugg" and will not longer be an active link.

Alexander Hanff

tdadyslexia 30-05-2008 21:25
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563684)
Dugg

serial 30-05-2008 21:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
maybe not 2 hours, but it's spreading ;)

davidb24v 30-05-2008 21:31
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Thanks Alex,

That be "dugged" then ;)

Dave

ps. Now off to other (car) forums where I've got a few people interested in this issue to get some more digging done...

wecpc 30-05-2008 21:31
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563865)
OK who has a login to moneysavingexpert.com ???

I know someone started a thread there recently, please can you add a post about the protest event with a link to the Digg article as below:

http://digg.com/tech_news/No_DPI_web..._Protest_Event

Ask people to Digg it, I really want to see this make the front page.

Also any other forums where people have started threads, please do the same, including the BT Beta forum if possible.

Florence, could you cover it on ISPReview forums?

Lets try and get this news out there, there is only so much I can do on my own and only so many press contacts in my list, so the more people push news of this event around the better.

I want that Digg article to hit 300 Diggs in the next 2 hours please. Lets not have any arguments about "I don't have a Digg account", I don't have a lot of things but I go out of my way to try and keep this issue in the public eye, so really for the sake of 2 minutes to register and 1 click to Digg it, there is no excuse really.

Everyone here should be Digging these stories, that is one way people can really help spread the word.

Alexander Hanff
Registered and Dugg

Colin

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 21:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
That's better folks, keep em coming.

Alexander Hanff

homealone 30-05-2008 21:40
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563895)
You just need to click on the little Icon that says "Digg" when you go to the story, once you have clicked it the icon will change to say "Dugg" and will not longer be an active link.

Alexander Hanff
Dugg for you, Alexander - 29, now

mattyh 30-05-2008 21:47
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
30 now :)

davethejag 30-05-2008 21:54
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hi All, just sent the http://nodpi.org/ link to Web-User Newsdesk

Regards,

davethejag

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 21:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34563918)
Hi All, just sent the http://nodpi.org/ link to Web-User Newsdesk

Regards,

davethejag
Thanks Dave.

Alexander Hanff

Ravenheart 30-05-2008 22:00
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Dugg, and I've posted a link on a few forums I'm on.

bluecar1 30-05-2008 22:04
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563904)
That's better folks, keep em coming.

Alexander Hanff
alex, links for you

contact page for evening standard, londonlite and metro papers
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/home/a...ils/article.do

contact page for the londonpaper
http://www.thelondonpaper.com/advertising/contact.html

these cover most of the commuters in london each day,

a good article telling them about the demo with a subject line of something like "demo planned for BT AGM" to catch the editor's eye then the details to get some publicity and hopefully they will turn up to have a look and do a story on the day

peter

Phormic Acid 30-05-2008 22:22
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pangpang (Post 34550163)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadPhormula (Post 34550005)
Yes there are several VPN services like 'Relakks' but it comes down to trust.
I actually think that you can trust Relakks. I'm from Sweden and the man how started up Relakks is wellknown here in Sweden for his view to people secracy.
Another threat to Phorm’s business model?

In this week’s PC Pro podcast, there’s an interesting report on the Infosec show. It starts at 39:35 and covers the idea of hosted security, also referred to as ‘security in the cloud’, for the home user.

Phorm’s selling point for Webwise is that it has the potential to provide some protection from phishing websites. This is one specific, limited example of the more general concept of hosted security services. Someone with a little technical knowledge can tunnel their web traffic through their ISP’s network to a trusted gateway beyond, so completely bypassing Phorm’s equipment. However, with hosted security, this tunnelling out could be taken up by your average home user. Rather than having a heavyweight security application on their computer, a small client would securely marshal all web traffic to and from the security company, who would take on the burden of analysing and cleaning that traffic. VPNs for the masses?

Of course, what, if any, hosted security and who will provide that should be a free choice. It shouldn’t be foisted upon the user by integrating it into an ISP’s network.

bluecar1 30-05-2008 22:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563895)
You just need to click on the little Icon that says "Digg" when you go to the story, once you have clicked it the icon will change to say "Dugg" and will not longer be an active link.

Alexander Hanff
digg is dugg :angel:

Ravenheart 30-05-2008 22:34
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I've emailed the editorial team at the Gadget Show to tell them of the protest (saying it may be of interest to them after they said they would keep an eye on the issue), and pointed them to http://nodpi.org/?p=3. I've told them it's a work in progress and will be added to as things are confirmed.

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 22:45
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
OK press releases sent out to:

London Standard
The London Paper
Telegraph
Guardian
Financial Times
Daily Mail
Wired Magazine
Associated Press

Also notified:
Dan Simmons - BBC Click
Charles Arthur - The Guardian
Claer Barrett - Investors Chronicle

Here is a copy of the press release:

Quote:
Press Release - Immediate Release

Protesters to Picket shareholders at BT PLC Annual General Meeting - 16th July 2008

On 16th July 2008 there will be a full day protest against the use of Deep Packet Inspection for the purpose of behavioural profiling. The event will focus on the plans by BT PLC, Virgin Media and Car Phone Warehouse to introduce deep packet inspection technologies through exclusive contracts with Phorm Inc.

Since Phorm issued a press release on 14th February 2008 regarding these exclusive contracts there has been a storm of outrage amongst the public, leading academics, privacy advocates, Members of Parliament, Members of the European Parliament, Peers in the House of Lords and the industry as whole. The technology has been called illegal by Foundation for Information Policy Research, which was recently supported by a statement from the European Commission.

As a result of the negative publicity generated over the past 3 months Phorm Inc.'s share price has plummeted by approx 70% and continues to struggle to develop confidence from investors.

In 2006/2007 BT PLC have admitted to running covert trials of the technology without first obtaining the consent from customers required by EU and UK Data Protection and Communications regulations, directives and legislation. However, to date neither the Information Commissioner nor the Secretary of State have held BT PLC to account for these allegedly illegal actions.

Therefore, the growing public campaign to seek justice for the victims of these covert trials and the wider mission of stopping the technology from being deployed, has led to an organised one day protest in London, UK. There is expected to be a significant press and media presence at the event which will begin at the Barbican Centre, continue on to BT Centre (BT's corporate HQ) and finally end with a march on to Charing Cross Metropolitan Police Station in the early evening. On arrival at the Metropolitan Police station a full case file with witness testimonies and supporting evidence, along with a petition demanding a criminal investigation will be handed to the senior officer on duty.

For more details about the event, please visit the following two web sites:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05..._phorm_protest
http://www.nodpi.org

If you require further information please contact me by reply.

Sincerely,

Alexander Hanff
University of Cumbria
Feel free to use the press release for any contacts you may wish to make with other members of the press and media (obviously change the last couple of lines).

Alexander Hanff

icsys 30-05-2008 22:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Was just going to suggest the daily tabloids as I suggested way back in post 7389

I see you have already sent a press release to quite a few. ;)
There is also:
The Sun The Star The Mirror The Express The Telegraph

OldBear 30-05-2008 22:52
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563865)
OK who has a login to moneysavingexpert.com ???

I know someone started a thread there recently, please can you add a post about the protest event with a link to the Digg article as below:<snip>
Alex, I tried getting interest over there about this, as did some others.

A long standing member called tonyhague started a thread about Phorm; it got lost.

I started another just after the FIPR report was issued; the Mods merged it with Tony's and it got lost.

Mark from here started yet another; the Mods merged it into the original and it's slowly disappearing.

I even posted a question for the Mods here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....html?t=905289 and they are just ignoring it!

If it doesn't involve saving money, the people over there aren't interested it seems.

OB

bluecar1 30-05-2008 22:55
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563865)

http://digg.com/tech_news/No_DPI_web..._Protest_Event

Ask people to Digg it, I really want to see this make the front page.

Also any other forums where people have started threads, please do the same, including the BT Beta forum if possible.

Alexander Hanff
posted over on BT Beta forums http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...D=24149&#24149

peter

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563959)
OK press releases sent out to:

London Standard
The London Paper
Telegraph
Guardian
Financial Times
Daily Mail
Wired Magazine
Associated Press

Also notified:
Dan Simmons - BBC Click
Charles Arthur - The Guardian
Claer Barrett - Investors Chronicle

Here is a copy of the press release:



Feel free to use the press release for any contacts you may wish to make with other members of the press and media (obviously change the last couple of lines).

Alexander Hanff
you missed the sun and the mirror

icsys 30-05-2008 23:00
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34563967)
you missed the sun and the mirror
And The Star The Mirror The Express The Telegraph

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 23:01
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34563962)
Was just going to suggest the daily tabloids as I suggested way back in post 7389

I see you have already sent a press release to quite a few. ;)
There is also:
The Sun The Star The Mirror The Express The Telegraph
OK I have forwarded the press release to all of those as well.

Alexander Hanff

phormwatch 30-05-2008 23:11
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563972)
OK I have forwarded the press release to all of those as well.

Alexander Hanff
You're an animal Alex... no, scratch that... you're a MACHINE!! ;)

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 23:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch (Post 34563979)
You're an animal Alex... no, scratch that... you're a MACHINE!! ;)
I am tired is what I am, I have only had 4 hours sleep in the last 3 days, but still not enough Diggs, so I am calling in all the favours I can to try and get it up there. It is gonna be a long night...

Alexander Hanff

icsys 30-05-2008 23:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
What about the BBC, ITV Channel 4, 5 news?
May as well hit all the media outlets?

In the words of George Foreman:
Your'e a lean mean Phorm grilling machine!

Oh, sorry, just read your last post.... how do you keep going?

phormwatch 30-05-2008 23:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563972)
OK I have forwarded the press release to all of those as well.

Alexander Hanff
Here's one more for you...

http://lug.org.uk/

http://www.linux.org/groups/united_kingdom/england.html

I'm sure they'd be a very receptive audience. :)

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 23:21
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34563984)
What about the BBC, ITV Channel 4, 5 news?
May as well hit all the media outlets?

In the words of George Foreman:
Your'e a lean mean Phorm grilling machine!

Oh, just read your las post.... how do you keep going?
Already contacted BBC, someone else is in the process of contacting C4 for me and I don't know anyone at ITV or C5.

Alexander Hanff

SelfProtection 30-05-2008 23:22
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
[QUOTE=bluecar1;34563967]posted over on BT Beta forums http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...=24149幕

peter

The link you posted on the beta.bt.. forum does not properly link to the digg.

serial 30-05-2008 23:23
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
For the red tops we just need a stunner to turn up in this:

http://badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugins/f....php?1629.post

Actually as I type... thinking... I know someone who dated a Nutz girl, I reckon she'd be game, I'll see what I can do ;)

Thoughts on yes(we want a girl in comedy thong) or no(it cheapens our campaign)

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 23:24
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
LUG done.

icsys 30-05-2008 23:27
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563987)
Already contacted BBC, someone else is in the process of contacting C4 for me and I don't know anyone at ITV or C5.

Alexander Hanff
Your press release has been mailed to C5 news.
bottom three lines changed of couse, as requested.

phormwatch 30-05-2008 23:27
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563982)
I am tired is what I am, I have only had 4 hours sleep in the last 3 days, but still not enough Diggs, so I am calling in all the favours I can to try and get it up there. It is gonna be a long night...

Alexander Hanff
OK, I've posted the digg url on a popular talkboard as well as posted it on my phormwatch blog.

serial 30-05-2008 23:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563982)
I am tired is what I am, I have only had 4 hours sleep in the last 3 days, but still not enough Diggs, so I am calling in all the favours I can to try and get it up there. It is gonna be a long night...
Alexander Hanff
It's Friday night, most people I know are out, so tomorrow we should start to see primary digging, then as they forward we'll get seconday digging etc etc.

Don't stress this evening, we have a whole weekend, get some sleep dude. Your family are more important than an evening stressing about diggs on a protest over a month away.

bluecar1 30-05-2008 23:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563982)
I am tired is what I am, I have only had 4 hours sleep in the last 3 days, but still not enough Diggs, so I am calling in all the favours I can to try and get it up there. It is gonna be a long night...

Alexander Hanff
can you not get chris over at el reg to tag the link for diggs on the bottom of the article, i see you have put it in the comments, but more would see it if the link was in the article

peter

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 23:38
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34563996)
can you not get chris over at el reg to tag the link for diggs on the bottom of the article, i see you have put it in the comments, but more would see it if the link was in the article

peter
I am not sure if they would be happy to promote a competing news site to be honest. I was lucky enough for my comment to go through. Chris and El Reg have been great on this issue so I don't want to risk asking for too much.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 23:38 ---------- Previous post was at 23:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by serial (Post 34563994)
It's Friday night, most people I know are out, so tomorrow we should start to see primary digging, then as they forward we'll get seconday digging etc etc.

Don't stress this evening, we have a whole weekend, get some sleep dude. Your family are more important than an evening stressing about diggs on a protest over a month away.
You will be amazed how quickly that 6 weeks will vanish. If I turn up to this demo and only half a dozen people arrive I will look like a complete monkey and I don't want that to happen. Getting this out in the public now will give people time to book a day holiday.

there is the other side to this as well, the BT Trials are "imminent" so the more people know about this issue before the trials begin, the more difficult it will be for BT to get their 10 000 lab rats.

Alexander Hanff

popper 30-05-2008 23:40
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
if your really wanting to make a bigger splash OC , then putting some video footage quotes from the speaker's of the event together, could be made into a short and snappy "current.TV" video clip that could then be uploaded before the event.

it needs to be in the younger demographic and CurrentTV style to be effective and fire them up about them being spyed on for profit and make them actively appose it though....

if there were a clip of the gadgetshow Interception for profit OC then that too could have made it to the currentTV pages and googleCurrent.
http://current.com/search/search.do?...er=jsp&q=phorm

http://current.com/uploads

some coverage from the US:
http://blogs.mediapost.com/online_examiner/?p=1747
"
Advocates Target ISP Working With Phorm

Posted May 30th, 2008 by Wendy Davis
Behavioral targeting company Phorm hasn’t launched yet, but is already facing more pushback than even the staunchest privacy advocates likely anticipated. The latest news is that Phorm opponent Alex Hanff is calling for people to picket the annual meeting of BT — one of the Internet service providers that’s working with Phorm.

“The purpose of the protest is to make BT shareholders aware of the past and planned use of allegedly illegal interception technologies to sell behavioral profiles to an ex-spyware company,” he said, according to a report today in the U.K. paper The Register.
..."

icsys 30-05-2008 23:41
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
It's starting to filter across the net...

http://www.addict3d.org/news/377188/...reholders.html
http://robojo.wordpress.com/2008/05/...ned-at-bt-agm/
http://blogs.mediapost.com/online_examiner/?p=1747
http://planet.perl.org/
http://wordpress.com/tag/privacy/
http://virtualreview.org/tech/zoom/6...t-shareholders

bluecar1 30-05-2008 23:47
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
[QUOTE=SelfProtection;34563988]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34563967)
posted over on BT Beta forums http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...=24149幕

peter

The link you posted on the beta.bt.. forum does not properly link to the digg.
thanks missed the fact the link did not travel well

does now

peter

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563998)
I am not sure if they would be happy to promote a competing news site to be honest. I was lucky enough for my comment to go through. Chris and El Reg have been great on this issue so I don't want to risk asking for too much.

Alexander Hanff
fair comment, was just a thought,

did you get the pm with the other contact

peter

lardycake 30-05-2008 23:49
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serial (Post 34563989)
For the red tops we just need a stunner to turn up in this:

http://badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugins/f....php?1629.post

Actually as I type... thinking... I know someone who dated a Nutz girl, I reckon she'd be game, I'll see what I can do ;)

Thoughts on yes(we want a girl in comedy thong) or no(it cheapens our campaign)
It is probably about the only thing that will get the tabloids interested.

@Alex - dugg it

AlexanderHanff 30-05-2008 23:55
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
[QUOTE=bluecar1;34564004]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelfProtection (Post 34563988)

thanks missed the fact the link did not travel well

does now

peter

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------



fair comment, was just a thought,

did you get the pm with the other contact

peter
Yup sent email to her, sorry I thought I replied to your pm lol.

Another funny thing just happened to. I posted the press release to UK LUG and never realised one of my friends is one of the admins. He contacted me online to tell me it has been forwarded to the regional list managers. It has already been posted to the Dorset and Nottingham LUG email lists as a result.

:)

Alexander Hanff

bluecar1 31-05-2008 00:02
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
[QUOTE=AlexanderHanff;34564015]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34564004)

Yup sent email to her, sorry I thought I replied to your pm lol.

Another funny thing just happened to. I posted the press release to UK LUG and never realised one of my friends is one of the admins. He contacted me online to tell me it has been forwarded to the regional list managers. It has already been posted to the Dorset and Nottingham LUG email lists as a result.

:)

Alexander Hanff
great, did not check my pm's

also anyone got a youtube account??

could put a link to the dig here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhbuQOW_Lpo, 1600 views in what looks like a couple of weeks

peter

Dephormation 31-05-2008 00:12
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Any University of London Alumni able to obtain favours?

Student Unions Mags?

LSE SU, UCL SU, Imperial SU, Kings College SU, SOAS etc?

popper 31-05-2008 00:32
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenheart (Post 34563949)
I've emailed the editorial team at the Gadget Show to tell them of the protest (saying it may be of interest to them after they said they would keep an eye on the issue), and pointed them to http://nodpi.org/?p=3. I've told them it's a work in progress and will be added to as things are confirmed.
it being the gadgetshow OC, means they need to find an angle they can cover it with,and justify the wider angle.

perhaps they can supply some mobile video streaming gadgets tech that can then be trialed and compared while covering the protest?

homealone 31-05-2008 00:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34563982)
I am tired is what I am, I have only had 4 hours sleep in the last 3 days, but still not enough Diggs, so I am calling in all the favours I can to try and get it up there. It is gonna be a long night...

Alexander Hanff
Donated a fiver, not a lot, but I hope it helps ..

AlexanderHanff 31-05-2008 01:04
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by homealone (Post 34564051)
Donated a fiver, not a lot, but I hope it helps ..
It all helps so thanks very much. If everyone who signed the PM petition donated that much we would be able to organise multiple events and probably cater them too.

So thanks again,

Alexander Hanff

homealone 31-05-2008 01:07
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34564059)
It all helps so thanks very much. If everyone who signed the PM petition donated that much we would be able to organise multiple events and probably cater them too.

So thanks again,

Alexander Hanff
no problem, I haven't participated much in the thread, but have been impressed with your energy & dedication, so it is the least I could do :)

Dephormation 31-05-2008 01:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Another avenue for reporting the www.webwise.bt.com URL (and email/session cookie leak issue);

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/report_url

OldBear 31-05-2008 01:12
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Just Dugg the story, Alex.

That makes 51, which I reckon is not bad for a Friday night; should get a lot more tomorrow when the dayshift come on. :D

OB

AlexanderHanff 31-05-2008 01:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBear (Post 34564065)
Just Dugg the story, Alex.

That makes 51, which I reckon is not bad for a Friday night; should get a lot more tomorrow when the dayshift come on. :D

OB
I have something in the workings ;) I expect it will make Digg front page in the not too distant future, called in a few favours.

Alexander Hanff

popper 31-05-2008 01:40
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
if anyone wants to join these and supply them with their contact information for the PR release etc then theres several free PR news release websites.
heres three i found in two minutes searching
http://openpr.com/news/submit.html
http://www.pr-inside.com/release_new.htm
http://www.pr.com/promote-your-business

you could i supose go direct to the sites mentioned in the third but whatever makes it easyer....

tdadyslexia 31-05-2008 03:28
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hi Alexander I've Donated a fiver, not a lot, but I hope it helps. ;)

AlexanderHanff 31-05-2008 03:47
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdadyslexia (Post 34564097)
Hi Alexander I've Donated a fiver, not a lot, but I hope it helps. ;)
Thanks.

Let me just say though to everyone, please don't feel obliged to donate, I don't want people leaving themselves short. Donations are very useful and will hopefully allow me to do more in the future such as future events etc. but I know what it is like to be strapped for cash and I don't want people ending up in difficult financial circumstances.

People on this forum have already been more than generous and my appreciation goes beyond words, so just all be sensible and don't give what you can't afford.

Alexander Hanff

tdadyslexia 31-05-2008 04:00
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Alexander get your self to Bed, that is watt I am going to do, is go to Bed. Or by the way know worries on the money, cach you later.

AlexanderHanff 31-05-2008 04:02
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdadyslexia (Post 34564104)
Alexander get your self to Bed, that is watt I am going to do, is go to Bed. Or by the way know worries on the money, cach you later.
Yeah I am heading to bed shortly, I was just setting forums up on the site.

Sleep well.

Alexander Hanff

popper 31-05-2008 05:40
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
http://current.com/items/88990813_uk...16th_july_2008

warescouse 31-05-2008 09:58
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Dugg

---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by popper (Post 34564116)
10/10 :)

Kursk 31-05-2008 10:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Good luck with the demo on 16 July I'm sure it will be a great success provided everyone maintains the intelligence and dignity exhibited throughout the life of this thread which has, at the very least, arrested the deployment of webwise.

However, not everyone will be able to participate in the demo simply because of other responsibilities and commitments, so does anyone have any suggestions about the way that those not physically able to attend can contribute? Perhaps by registering their support for the demo on BT's site on the day of the demo?

I'm not in favour of gratuitous spam but the cause is legitimate in view of the importance of the issue.

This two-pronged approach will be reported in terms of those physically attending (and we don't know what those numbers will be) being supported by the thousands who registered their support for their 'London delegation'.

It's just an idea to supplement the demo by giving those who are equally committed but who cannot get to London an opportunity to participate. More voices make more noise and all that.

Frank Rizzo 31-05-2008 11:02
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
* * * ICO will NOT take action over the 2007 trials * * *

The ICO have written to me in relation to the complaint I had made about the 2007 trials (re: BT intercepted my communications - told me I had a virus)

Quote:
BT have explained that two technical tests of a prototype advertising platform were conducted in 2006 and 2007. They have informed us that these tests were designed to evaluate the functional and technical performance of the platform. BT have confirmed that they sought their own legal advice before both trials.

Where a purely technical trial is conducted that, in BT's view, is likely to have little or no impact on customers, they have advised that they would not generally seek consent from customers. As they did not anticipate the trials would cause customers problems they did not brief their customer service helpdesks about them (hence the problems you experienced in getting advice from them at the time).

BT have told us that they did not associate your enquiry with the 2007 trial and as they were not able to identify individual customers that had participated (because of the anonymity of the process) they were unable to get back to you. They have advised that they attempted to contact you after you had expressed concerns online at 'The Register' however they were apparently not successful.

Finally, BT have confirmed that no personally identifiable information was processed, stored or disclosed during either trial. We have no reason to doubt this assertion. Where no personal data is processed the Data Protection Act will not apply.

As we discussed when we spoke the issues that we have considered in this case relate primarily to the requirements of Regulations 6 and 7 of the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003.

Regulation 6 requires that where an organisation is using an electronic communications network to store information, or gain access to information stored, in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user, the subscriber or user should (in most cases) be provided with 'clear and comprehensive' information about the purposes of the storage of, or access to, that information, and the opportunity to refuse the storage of or access to that information. In other words, if an organisation collects information using cookies they have to tell people about that, and advised them how to prevent operating.

Regulation 7 sets down conditions for the conditions for the circumstances in which traffic data relating to subscribers or users can be processed. In some cases this Regulation requires that a public communications provider has a subscriber or users consent to process traffic data for the provision of ‘value added services’. Traffic data is broadly speaking data used to convey, route or charge for a communication.

It is arguable whether the requirements of Regulation 7 are engaged in this instance, however it is our view that Regulation 6 would likely to apply. BT’s view is that as the 2007 trial was small scale and technical in nature and no adverts were served, it would have been difficult to frame any advice for customers about the operation of cookies, and obtain any relevant consents for the processing of traffic data, with a wording that they would have any resonance at all for theory customers.
Our view is that, whether or not there was a technical breach of the Regulation, there is no evidence that the trials generally involved significant detriment to individuals involved (although we acknowledge – as have BT – the problem you flagged) or privacy risks to individuals. On this basis, and taking into account the difficulties involved in providing meaningful and clear information to customers (the vast majority of whom were likely to be completed unrelated to the anonymous technical trial) in this case, this is not an issue we intend to pursue further with BT.

However, as we discussed when we spoke I understand you were considering the options available to you in terms of pursuing this matter further yourself. As I mentioned briefly on the telephone, Regulation 30 specifies that a person who suffers damage by reason of a contravention of any of the requirements of the Regulations by any other person can make a claim for compensation for that damage.

If you believe you have suffered quantifiable damage as a result of a breach of the Regulations and are considering pursuing this matter you should seek your own legal advice.

As I mentioned in my previous email whilst I appreciate your concerns about the trial(s), particularly in light of the information you received when you contacted HBT, we continue to be focused on ensuring that any future wide scale use of the Phorm product is conducted in as clear and transparent a manner as possible in compliance with the legislation.

Yours sincerely..

Kursk 31-05-2008 11:12
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34564182)
* * * ICO will NOT take action over the 2007 trials * * *
A useful discovery during this Phorm episode has been that the ICO are toothless, ineffective bureaucrats whose very existence should be reviewed by those in authority. The ICO are full of gullible, defensive platitudes for big business and serve no useful purpose to the taxpaying, wage-paying public. When Phorm is buried, the ICO are due a performance review imho. This Country can do without layer upon layer of pontificating "it's-nothing-to-do-with-us" government.

Frank Rizzo 31-05-2008 11:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
1. "BT sought their own legal advice"

Can we see that legal advice? Can the ICO confirm it was bona fide?

2. "BT did not associate your enquiry with the 2007 trials and as they were not able to identify individual cusomters that had participated"

BT knew full well I was participating in the trials - I told them as soon as I started unearthing the murky world of 121media. BT logged support, abuse, and customer service records in my name and thus knew I was part of the trials.

3. "(because of the anonymity of the process) they were unable to contact you"

As with 2. BT knew full well who I was. I told them about 121media. They had support, abuse and CC records of my contact details

4. "They have advised that they attempted to contact you after you had expressed concerns online at 'The Register' however they were apparently not successful."

Was the line constantly engaged? Did they not know my phone number or address? I was a god damn BT customer! Of course they had my contact details.

5. "BT have confirmed that no personally identifiable information was processed, stored or disclosed during either trial. We have no reason to doubt this assertion."

So BT told the ICO that was the case. Did the ICO see evidence of this or did they just take BT's word for it?

6. "Regulation 6... the user should be provided with 'clear and comprehensive' information..."

BT did not provide this information during the trials. They therefore contravened that Regulation. The ICO allowing BT to get off that hook because 'we could not comply with that regulation because we did not know who the customers were’ looks a whitewash to me.

7. "Regulation 7… It is arguable whether the requirements are engaged in this instance, however it is our view that Regulation 6 would be likely to apply… BT’s view is that the trial was small scale and technical in nature and no ads were served.”

How small scale is small scale? How many people were involved in the trials? Did BT give the ICO a figure? Did the ICO agree it was small scale? It doesn’t matter if it was one or ten thousand. A contravened regulation is a contravened regulation.

8. ”Our view is that, whether or not there was a technical breach of the Regulation, there is no evidence that the trials generally involved significant detriment to the individuals involved, or privacy risks to individuals”

There was significant detriment. BT lied to me and caused disruption to my business. As for privacy risks please explain exactly what happened to my internet communications. As far as I am aware my internet connection was connecting to sysip.net – a domain owned by 121media – a company with a history of spyware and rootkits. Please give me evidence that my privacy was not at risk.

9. “As I mentioned briefly, Regulation 30 specifies that a person who suffers damage by reason of a contravention can make a claim for compensation”

ICO don’t want to know and they would prefer I pursue this matter in the courts, at my expense. What exactly is the point of the ICO if it is up to individuals to seek recourse themselves?

Kursk 31-05-2008 11:25
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34564196)
1.ICO don’t want to know and they would prefer I pursue this matter in the courts, at my expense. What exactly is the point of the ICO if it is up to individuals to seek recourse themselves?
Quite. And we pay for this 'service'.

warescouse 31-05-2008 11:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34564196)
1. "BT sought their own legal advice"

Can we see that legal advice? Can the ICO confirm it was bona fide?

2. "BT did not associate your enquiry with the 2007 trials and as they were not able to identify individual cusomters that had participated"

BT knew full well I was participating in the trials - I told them as soon as I started unearthing the murky world of 121media. BT logged support, abuse, and customer service records in my name and thus knew I was part of the trials.

3. "(because of the anonymity of the process) they were unable to contact you"

As with 2. BT knew full well who I was. I told them about 121media. They had support, abuse and CC records of my contact details

4. "They have advised that they attempted to contact you after you had expressed concerns online at 'The Register' however they were apparently not successful."

Was the line constantly engaged? Did they not know my phone number or address? I was a god damn BT customer! Of course they had my contact details.

5. "BT have confirmed that no personally identifiable information was processed, stored or disclosed during either trial. We have no reason to doubt this assertion."

So BT told the ICO that was the case. Did the ICO see evidence of this or did they just take BT's word for it?

6. "Regulation 6... the user should be provided with 'clear and comprehensive' information..."

BT did not provide this information during the trials. They therefore contravened that Regulation. The ICO allowing BT to get off that hook because 'we could not comply with that regulation because we did not know who the customers were’ looks a whitewash to me.

7. "Regulation 7… It is arguable whether the requirements are engaged in this instance, however it is our view that Regulation 6 would be likely to apply… BT’s view is that the trial was small scale and technical in nature and no ads were served.”

How small scale is small scale? How many people were involved in the trials? Did BT give the ICO a figure? Did the ICO agree it was small scale? It doesn’t matter if it was one or ten thousand. A contravened regulation is a contravened regulation.

8. ”Our view is that, whether or not there was a technical breach of the Regulation, there is no evidence that the trials generally involved significant detriment to the individuals involved, or privacy risks to individuals”

There was significant detriment. BT lied to me and caused disruption to my business. As for privacy risks please explain exactly what happened to my internet communications. As far as I am aware my internet connection was connecting to sysip.net – a domain owned by 121media – a company with a history of spyware and rootkits. Please give me evidence that my privacy was not at risk.

9. “As I mentioned briefly, Regulation 30 specifies that a person who suffers damage by reason of a contravention can make a claim for compensation”

ICO don’t want to know and they would prefer I pursue this matter in the courts, at my expense. What exactly is the point of the ICO if it is up to individuals to seek recourse themselves?
ICO should be put to bed as a lame duck, and perhaps a PROPER organisation should be put in its place that follows the remit!!!
What are these guys paid for. I COULD BE A YES MAN FOR HALF THEIR COST!
It is a disgrace and I sincerely hope that this will be thoroughly investigated at some point.

To me it seems like you have a fairly good case against BT. Is there nobody who would take your case on as a legal test case for the common good?

NTLVictim 31-05-2008 11:39
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Frank, I presume you will be notifying the relevant European body about ICO's inaction?


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