Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks serial, I'll add the new site to my blog, and also some of the other forums I frequent.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Over on BT Beta forums we were assured recently by our forum moderator that webwise.bt.com was not a phishing site.

I have been trying to submit an enquiry via the webwise.bt.com/contact.php page, which appeared to be broken - but it seems although the confirmation page never showed up an email did get through. I got a reply today - the body text was the usual BT Webwise spin, and the headers are here (edited to protect the innocent)

X-Apparently-To: ******-webwise@yahoo.co.uk via 87.***.***.61; **, ** May 2008 **:30:45 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [217.32.164.151]
Authentication-Results: mta163.mail.ukl.yahoo.com from=bt.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig)
Received: from 217.32.164.151 (EHLO smtp4.smtp.bt.com) (217.32.164.151)
by mta163.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; **, ** May 2008 **:30:43 +0000
Received: from E03MVA2-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.106]) by smtp4.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
**, ** May 2008 **:30:43 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: FW: BT.webwise.com Contact Request
Date: **, ** May 2008 15:30:43 +0100
Message-ID: <***********@**********2-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: BT.webwise.com Contact Request
Thread-Index: ********3L4La2sQ69Q0WaQ3lWM+7bAgAia1zL
References: <********.************@ww3.phorm.com>
From: <bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com>
To: <******@*******>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: ******** (UTC) FILETIME=[*************]


I'm a bit puzzled by the References: line

References: <*********.*******@ww3.phorm.com>

and wondering what that was doing in a reply to a contact form email made via what we were assured by an official BT forum moderator, was a genuine non-phishing site. In fact we were roundly told off for reporting the site as a phishing site and told to stop it.

I did a lookup on www3.phorm.com and got this:
Registrant:

Phorm, Inc.

264 W. 40th St., 16th Floor

New York, New York 10018

United States



Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)

Domain Name: PHORM.COM

Created on: 29-Apr-00

Expires on: 29-Apr-09

Last Updated on:



Administrative Contact:

Cote, Chris chris.cote@phorm.com

Phorm, Inc.

264 W. 40th St., 16th Floor

New York, New York 10018

United States

2123592030 Fax --



Technical Contact:

Clark, Allan allan.clark@phorm.com

Phorm, Inc

264 W40 Street

16th Floor

New York, New York 10018

United States

2123592030 Fax --



Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.PHORM.COM

NS2.PHORM.COM

I'm not up on the technicalities of headers so I would appreciate some advice before I take this further.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Use what I have written and change it as you will..

To my everlasting shame, when I was young I worked for a publicity company, but I'm better now.

I've also maintained an academic interest in psychological warfare since then, so if push comes to shove (in this case) I am prepared to assume the morals of a sewer rat, for the greater good.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

on the brief news bulletin on BBC 1 just before 8 O'clock they mentioned how they got hold of a fake driving licence under the name of the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7424238.stm

Response from the Government

Is this a different home office to the one we've been getting in touch with?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here is some more info:

The IP is registered to:

Clearly, that contact form seems to touching Phorm's equipment somewhere along the line. This needs addressing.

A lookup on what the "References" header is reveals this:

This pretty much paints the whole scene. The email you got from BT is a reply to an email sent by a web site owned by Phorm (ww3.phorm.com) which confirms that the form you submitted was done on a Phorm server.

Angry does not even begin to describe how this makes me feel, especially given that BT have out and out lied in their response to this issue.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good. I was hoping for a smoking gun.

The moderator response when we had our phishing row about webwise.bt.com on Beta forums was
http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/me...ID=23304#23304
"Before you start to send emails to the moderators and our abuse team about this, http://webwise.bt,com isn't a phishing site. It's merely a part of BT.com that is hosted on a different set of servers, much like bt.custhelp.com which is hosted on Right Now's servers in California. Right Now's servers also handle all of the traffic in the "Contact Us" section of BT.com just like the form on the Webwise site and with a similar level of security for handling details like your account numbers.

Sending us lots of emails reporting this will delay the abuse team from dealing with genuine reports of phishing sites so I'd appreciate it if you didn't.

Thanks"

I've emailed him directly to ask for an explanation and said that I submitted the form after his reassurance that this was an internal site and that if my details have been compromised then I hold BT responsible on the basis of his official advice.

This is now the second bit of documented evidence we have of communications through that site ending up in Phorm's hands.

What next? - I'm all fired up and ready to go!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just make things a little more interesting, click this link in your browser:

http://ww3.phorm.com/

Hmmmm

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

The only explanation I can think of is this:

1. You fill in the contact form on www.webwise.bt.com (a server hosted in the US off the BT core network on an IP address recently associated with Phorm).

2. The script behind that form seems to be sending the form data to ww3.phorm.com.

3. ww3.phorm.com appears to be then sending that data to BT via email, which explains the reference header.

If anyone has anything to add, please feel free.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just trying to anticipate the wriggles. This means that it was sent from the server? Does it mean it was copied to a phorm e-mail address?

If not, what would be left on the server in the way of logs etc?

I'm just trying establish if BT/Phorm can argue that no data was collected/kept by phorm. They can probably argue it's not phishing because BT themselves must have pointed the URL towards that site.

Having said that, BT could have pointed it towards the information page, Phorm could have added the 'contact us' bit by themselves. That would be phishing.

Perhaps BT need to confirm that they authorised Phorm to collect the 'contact us' information?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

serial.. you may want to mention the trials if you can fit it in.. ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The Gadget Show was a bit silly at the beginning, but the presenter was passionate, and the message was the clearest that I've seen i.e. simple concepts such as the equivalent of phone wire-tapping and that you pay the ISP for a connection to the internet and that your ISP should not be selling your surfing habits.

I was disappointed with the BBC 24 and BBC news web site coverage, it felt distant and as if the BBC felt it had to cover the story but didn't really see anything wrong with Phorm. The Click! presenter emphasised the word "some", when introducing the segment and saying "some" people had issues with Phorm - the emphasis made me think that the BBC were saying "some" as in these are loony people that the BBC are distancing themselves from.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well the fact that the sensitive personal data is being collected on a server in the US is the first issue; this would appear to break EU Data Protection directives with regards to exporting sensitive personal data outside Europe without explicit informed consent.

The second issue is the ww3.phorm.com reference header. This suggests that the email which BT's system is replying to has been sent directly from ww3.phorm.com, logically a Phorm controlled server. This means that Phorm potentially have access to -all- the data submitted in that contact us form.

The third issue is the ww3.phorm.com server must utilise some form of parser to then forward that contact us forms contents to BT via email.

We have no idea what is being logged, whether this information is being retained by Phorm or why it is even being sent to Phorm in the first place.

I think this is an important issue and shows a complete lack of transparency by all parties and seems to be breaking yet more laws.

It is simply unacceptable.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks - I too want to investigate the wriggle room!

This contact form was filled in after the moderator of the forum specifically squashed a phishing discussion about this site, and told us NOT to report it to anti-phishing sites and he said, "Before you start to send emails to the moderators and our abuse team about this, http://webwise.bt,com isn't a phishing site. It's merely a part of BT.com that is hosted on a different set of servers, much like bt.custhelp.com which is hosted on Right Now's servers in California. Right Now's servers also handle all of the traffic in the "Contact Us" section of BT.com just like the form on the Webwise site and with a similar level of security for handling details like your account numbers.
Sending us lots of emails reporting this will delay the abuse team from dealing with genuine reports of phishing sites so I'd appreciate it if you didn't.
Thanks"

He doesn't say - this BT Webwise site is managed by a recognised commercial partner.
He doesn't say - Phorm run our Webwise customer help service.
He is responding to a specific debate on his forum about the security of data handled by this site, which has taken place on the forum he moderates, and following his "reassurance" I decided to test it out by using the contact form.

BT have also kept insisting all over the place that they do not send identifiable personal data to Phorm.

But is there any "technical" wriggle room relating to the headers?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The only information I can find on the "References" header is that it is the true message origin which the email is replying to. I have looked at several definitions and they all say the same thing. So in the absence of data to the contrary I have to assume that to be correct, but I am open to any email gurus interpretation.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks Alexander.

So even 'between' trials, Phorm is intercepting BT user data without their knowledge and passing it through their servers?

This includes <form> data and PII? This must be done either with the full knowledge of BT or Phorm is phishing. Woops.

EDIT : Is it worth taking over to BadPhorm for an opinion re: the e-mail references bit ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As I said, that is the only way I can interpret the evidence. I could of course be wrong and certainly hope I am, but something tells me I am not.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

interesting

see attached png image

it's from the ww3.phorm.com

it seems to suggest if you opt-out your profile is destroyed!!

no mention that phorm view all sites and what they are comparing against only monitor WHEN ON THEIR SITES

as you see blatently incorrect

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i noted the source of the page

<meta name="description" content="Does Webwise spy on you? BT and TalkTalk Carphone Warehouse customers are about to find out. Warning: Webwise infringes your privacy.">
<meta name="keywords" content="webwise phorm BT talktalk carphonewarehouse carphone warehouse phishing spying">

we need to add more in these two lines, you are allowed 256 chars in each, and google etc scan these i believe at a higher wieghting than page content

could add

illegal interception wiretap ripa DPA data protection act

to the keywords

and

illegal under ripa, data protection act and EU perc etc

to the description

that should help get it up the search engine ratings

peter

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

just had a virus warning when i posted the last reply !!!!

FILES\CONTENT.IE5\DMRBACPE\BOARD[1].HTM.

Infection: Constructor.DOS.BWG.203

any thoughts

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Make sure that any keywords in the tags ARE replicated in the body text itself. Otherwise google can penalise you for keyword stuffing.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I had a bunch of errors about 10 minutes ago, maybe the forum has been compromised, someone needs to contact an admin, I will msg Mick.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Done.

and I've asked Emma for an explanation.
and I've asked the forum moderator for an explanation.

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

Same here.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Constructor.DOS.BWG

Aliases
Constructor.DOS.BWG (Kaspersky Lab) is also known as: Constructor.BAT.BWG (Kaspersky Lab),
Description added May 31 2002
Behavior Virus Constructor
Technical details
Constructor creates batch payload programs. It is written in Basic for DOS.

It creates payload programs of the following types:

internet worms
mIRC worms
pIRC worms
installing to the win.ini
installing to the system registry startup key
installing to the startup directory
deletes antivirus programs
Constructor inserts the following comment in the beginning of batch files:

REM generated with BATCH WORM GENERATOR x.xx

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have forwarded all this recent information on the www.webwise.bt.com issue to Chris Williams.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks Alex. I'll pm you with an email address for Chris.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have Chris' email, I talk to him almost daily at the moment :) oh you meant your email address :) no problem.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I had a page full of errors about 10 mins ago too

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

we need to get it right to get it up googles rankings and to as many people as possible, and certainly above PHORMS pages in the results

anyone else who knows how to get up the search engine results please help

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I had a problem as well. It was the first time I refreshed after Bluecar1's 21:21 posting with the thumbnail. (Bluecar1 - i'm not suggesting you did anything wrong, just pinpointing when it happened :))

I could get the last page, but not the current page.

@vicz - are you saying you got the above warning from this site?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All

I have been lurking here for a long time and the usual thanks for all the hard work you have put in. I sent a question to the Webwise contact page some time ago and thought you may be interested in the header of my reply. It seems to have come via 121media.com, I'll let you tech buffs pick the bones out of it.

Return-path: <bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com>
Delivery-date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:52:34 +0100
Received: from [217.32.164.138] (helo=smtp3.smtp.bt.com)
by hermes.hosts.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.67)
(envelope-from <bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com>)
id 1Jvs7W-0003JX-7L
for xxxx@xxxxx.co.uk; Tue, 13 May 2008 11:52:34 +0100
Received: from E03MVA2-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.105]) by smtp3.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830);
Tue, xx xx 2008 xx:52:39 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: FW: BT.webwise.com Contact Request
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:51:32 +0100
Message-ID: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxx2-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: BT.webwise.com Contact Request
Thread-Index: xxxxxxxxxdw65ScKRtvQRUfeUJwfLtdw0
References: <xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@www.121media.com>
From: <bt.webwise.help.desk@bt.com>
To: <xxx@xxxx.co.uk>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: xx xxx 2008 xx xx .0899 (UTC) FILETIME=[7685E2B0:01C8B4E7]
X-namesco: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/)
X-Original-To: xxx@xxxxxx.co.uk

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

from my AV(fsecure) LOG, changed details of domain / user info for privacy, this should pin point times and files etc

the clock on my PC is 1 - 2 minutes fast

peter

63 2008-05-28 21:30:53+01:00 cartoon-ties domain\userF-Secure Anti-Virus 1.3.6.1.4.1.2213.11.1.12
Malicious code found in file C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\user\LOCAL SETTINGS\TEMPORARY INTERNET FILES\CONTENT.IE5\3O9LUJFX\NEWREPLY[1].HTM. Infection: Constructor.DOS.BWG.203

64 2008-05-28 21:30:56+01:00 cartoon-ties domain\userF-Secure Anti-Virus 1.3.6.1.4.1.2213.11.1.12
Malicious code found in file C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\user\LOCAL SETTINGS\TEMPORARY INTERNET FILES\CONTENT.IE5\FQQTQU42\SHOWTHREAD[1].HTM. Infection: Constructor.DOS.BWG.203

65 2008-05-28 21:30:58+01:00 cartoon-ties domain\userF-Secure Anti-Virus 1.3.6.1.4.1.2213.11.1.12
Malicious code found in file C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\user\LOCAL SETTINGS\TEMPORARY INTERNET FILES\CONTENT.IE5\DMRBACPE\BOARD[1].HTM. Infection: Constructor.DOS.BWG.203

66 2008-05-28 21:30:59+01:00 cartoon-ties domain\userF-Secure Anti-Virus 1.3.6.1.4.1.2213.11.1.12
Malicious code found in file C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\user\LOCAL SETTINGS\TEMPORARY INTERNET FILES\CONTENT.IE5\DMRBACPE\BOARD[1].HTM. Infection: Constructor.DOS.BWG.203

67 2008-05-28 21:31:00+01:00 cartoon-ties domain\userF-Secure Anti-Virus 1.3.6.1.4.1.2213.11.1.12
Malicious code found in file C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\user\LOCAL SETTINGS\TEMPORARY INTERNET FILES\CONTENT.IE5\FQQTQU42\SHOWTHREAD[1].HTM. Infection: Constructor.DOS.BWG.203

68 2008-05-28 21:31:00+01:00 cartoon-ties domain\userF-Secure Anti-Virus 1.3.6.1.4.1.2213.11.1.12
Malicious code found in file C:\DOCUMENTS AND SETTINGS\user\LOCAL SETTINGS\TEMPORARY INTERNET FILES\CONTENT.IE5\DMRBACPE\BOARD[1].HTM. Infection: Constructor.DOS.BWG.203

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No just some info on the class of virus mentioned earlier. No problems for me so far (smug on OSX though!)

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

It looks like someone/thing at BT is forwarding some of the questions to phorm and 121 for answers, and then forwarding the replies back to you. Going thru my inbox, Outlook / Exchange seem to use the references field to link threads of replied to and forwarded messages. It seems a bit odd but I would have thought if BT or phorm were up to some sort of subterfuge they wouldn't be setting the references field as its use is optional.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I had temporary problems also just after viewing that .png file.

So I flushed my Sandbox & checked my system, there were 14+ viewings of that .png file I suggest it is pulled & closely & carefully checked!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What we don't know is what information is forwarded to phorm as part of the request. It would be normal to forward technical queries to specialist subcontractors, together with sufficient information to solve the problem / answer the question, but should otherwise be using some sort of case reference number rather than personal details. So if we ask a) would they answer b) would we believe them?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If it helps, I had the problems, but did not click on the thumbnail, just refreshed the screen.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't think this is BT consulting with Phorm, from what I have read about the References header, it is the origin of the message they are replying to. If that message was a technical email from Phorm, then the reply would go to them, not you.

This seems like it is definitely referring to the origin of the contact us form data.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have np... reloaded pages using bottom page no's only seems ok..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

just checked the bmp and png files on my local machine and opened the png i uploaded, no issues or viruses found

not sure what happened

i had just updated paint.net from 3.22 to 3.31 that was the only thing i did just before the issue

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Was split on linking inphormationdesk.org or badphorm, I figured I wanted a place people could ask questions other than emailing me ;)

I was scrolling past this and this entry caught my eye, we've had a user called AlanC start a thread on BadPhorm which has caused a long argument with him.

As has been said, trying to keep meta content the same as content on the page. I'm getting good advice on the SEO side ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I did click on the thumbnail, but had no problems. I have since run a full scan with Norton v.8 just in case and no problems were found.

Colin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All, I have just seen a thread on Hot UK Deals ref privacy. -

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/19129...urbing-privac/

Is anybody singned up with them? Perhaps you could add a post about Phorm? I think that this site gets a lot of hits and it may help to spread the word!

Best to all. davethejag

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

what about a link to http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/29/phorm_roundup/

it's got the full archive of register articles about phorm from chris williams

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No, one of its recommended uses is to maintain continuity of a thread (or other relationship) when it is not evident from the normal sent / received trail. Its purpose would be to allow BT to remember who had created the answer if I subsequently queried the reply they had sent me. They are probably using a CRM or Case Management package that flows the work using emails and is setting the references header field, either for its own tracking purposes or most likely for no particular reason. The fact that it is being set suggests to me that there is no other more sinister purpose. Or maybe I am just in a trusting mood today...

BTW I agree the message is probably being forwarded to phorm automatically by a bot with a script, as you wrote earlier.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Complain to the ICO... BT need to explain why data submitted on that contact form (including names, emails, account numbers and other PII) is passing through Phorm's hands when they have categorically assured customers and the ICO that would not happen.

And explain why they are still referring customers to that site from BT.com.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The 'title' metatag and the 'description' metatag are the important ones from Googles point of view. The content should have the important search keywords words (contained within the title tag and the description) fairly early on within the page. A good heading is useful. Your title should be something along the lines of <title> Phorm | Webwise spying opt-out opt-in" </title> and should preferably be the top meta tag of the bunch.

The meta tag 'keyword' from the Google search engines point of view is largely irrelevant and it tends to ignore it. Other search engines do use it though.

You need lots of good one way links to the site. 'dig it' etc with good anchor text. Note that sites linking to each other can cancel each others out. One way links are the secret to Google ranking success!

You should do a sitemap and submit it to Google also. Unless you get lots of visits from various sites and good page links to your site, you will end up in the Google 'sandbox' although I doubt this will happen for long, if at all, due to the current interest in Phorm/webwise.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.viruslist.com/en/viruses/...?virusid=54600

http://www.viruslist.com/en/viruses/...?virusid=54584

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Trying to keep content and links to a minimum. If people want more then they can search. I do have a link to the Phorm wiki which has a lot more detail and reg links.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

All you have is a helpdesk referring (probably automatically) a query about a product to the supplier of that product for a response and then passing that response back to you. Look at the headers - it is clear that this is what is happening. What is not clear is what is being done by phorm with any personal information they get in the email sent to them - and we dont know if there is any at all - but this is exactly the behaviour I would expect from any large company helpdesk. So as I said earlier, you can ask BT and/or phorm what personal data there is and what they do with it but don't expect an honest reply any time soon. Good luck with the ICO if you are so minded, my view is that you are tilting at windmills here.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Even though in reference to a query about that very contact form, during a discussion on the exact status and data security of that very site and contact form, on the forum, BT said that it was an internal BT page? "Before you start to send emails to the moderators and our abuse team about this, http://webwise.bt,com isn't a phishing site. It's merely a part of BT.com that is hosted on a different set of servers, much like bt.custhelp.com which is hosted on Right Now's servers in California. Right Now's servers also handle all of the traffic in the "Contact Us" section of BT.com just like the form on the Webwise site and with a similar level of security for handling details like your account numbers."

and even though the Webwise FAQ thread on those SAME forums say in answering question 10

"Is BT selling customer data? BT has not sold and will not sell your data. No browsing data leaves BT network and no personally-identifiable information is generated or stored by the BT Webwise service or Phorm, the company that provides the technology behind the service. We do not tie our authentication servers and systems into Phorm's systems and we do not send any other information we hold on our subscribers to Phorm."

When I add all that up, and the fact that it is all DIRECTLY with reference to the BT Webwise service and site, then I find it very difficult to accept that BT are sending my email details to Phorm when I use the BT Webwise site contact form.

I feel that they have given reassurances to me directly about my data which they have then failed to honour and which seem to me to be directly misleading.

I'll certainly let you know how I get on.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Could you perhaps explain then why an email about a BT domain needs consultation from Phorm in order to answer?

For your suggestion to be true that would seem to make no sense. There should be no reason for BT to consult Phorm on queries about BT's own servers.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Because the helpdesk would normally be staffed with low skilled staff and an email auto-response system. And BT would probably be paying phorm a support fee to provide second line support. The default route may even be to phorm. Anything more BT-related would just be passed back to them. But it does look like a case-referral trail rather than the form being hosted by phorm(!) This is typical of how products like eg Kana or Siebel work. After a while the auto response system would be able to spout its own PR-spin canned answers but until they get a feel for the sort of questions people actually ask they will probably be hand holding it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Last weekend there was a lot happening over on BT, including signs of a lot of activity and changes on webwise.bt.com - for example all the pages suddenly changed from html to php. Links from the www.bt.com search box results which pointed to the old pages were broken and it became actually quite hard to locate BT Webwise from any starting point on the BT information and help pages.

There was stuff going on all weekend - and discussion about it on forums by customers expressing their concerns. I think talk of an automated system just rolling along its merry way doesn't quite fit with what we saw from the BT Customer end of things over that weekend. They were up to their usual tricks - telling us one thing and actively secretly doing another. They are well practiced at it and one day I hope they will pay for it publicly.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes it does seem that they were in preparation for the trials. But the webwise faqs, contact form etc are bog standard customer service stuff. You will probably find the same contact form embedded in loads of BT pages. the form is just a portal into the CS system which will probably verify that the customer details are known and then attempt to make an intelligent guess about where to send the query. It's very unlikely that anyone is going to tell you anything specific about their configuration in response to a CS query. Much more likely to get a standard 'very sorry should be better soon' or 'don't worry your pretty little head about it'. For UK Government sites this (the network topology) would be restricted information in any case, many big companies take the same approach.

There you go - they are a Siebel user http://www.oracle.com/customers/snap...g-snapshot.pdf

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Looking closely at the contact form on www.webwise.bt.com... the form action posts to a local resource;

<form name="contactform" action="contact_process.php" method="post">

That would mean the entire contents of the form submission are posted to the USA first. So the data *is* being processed initially in the USA (whatever the email fields, whatever the reference header, whatever the CRM system, whatever the explanation given by BT).

The form is initially processed in the USA.

Given that server is owned by Phorm, and the content of the replies received appear to be written by Phorm (see earlier posts), I think it is reasonable to conclude (in the absence of a convincing explanation by BT) the email is processed by Phorm. It is for BT to explain the rest, not us.

PS agree comment about ICO... sadly they are the only option.

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:29 ----------

Just installed the excellent (and recommended by me) anti tracking DNS host file from http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/

... and found I couldn't connect to www.webwise.com

In the hosts file I found...

# sites with known trojans or other malware
127.0.0.1 59-106-20-39.r-bl100.sakura.ne.jp
127.0.0.1 Iframecash.biz
127.0.0.1 a.oix.com
127.0.0.1 a.oix.net
127.0.0.1 a.webwise.com
127.0.0.1 a.webwise.net
127.0.0.1 a.webwise.org

Superb :)

---------- Post added at 00:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:44 ----------

More reasons to suppose Phorm are handling the queries from the www.webwise.bt.com site;

Compare

http://www.webwise.com/contact.html
If you have service or support questions for your ISP, please visit your ISP's website directly for fastest service.
<form name="contactform" action="contact_process.php" method="post">

with

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
If you have service or support questions for your ISP, please visit your ISP's website directly for fastest service
<form name="contactform" action="contact_process.php" method="post">

Snap!

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 00:50 ----------

Another 'BT' site, with same content, same processing method, IP block owned by Phorm (Phorm IPv4 Assignment). How many is that now? 3? 4? Perhaps more given the number of IP addresses in the DNS replies. www.webwise.bt.com/webwise.bt.com/bt.webwise.com. Some in the USA, some in a Phorm IP address block, some on a third party hosting, and none apparently inside BT.

http://bt.webwise.com/webwise/contact.php
If you have service or support questions for your ISP, please visit your ISP's website directly for fastest service.
<form name="contactform" action="contact_process.php" method="post">

Compare
http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_rep...ww.webwise.com
http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_rep...bt.webwise.com

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I really am no expert on this stuff but I can't see how this fits with what's in the privacy policy from www.bt.com:

My italics and underling, obviously...

So if anyone who has done a section 12(?) DPA notice makes a request to BT this way then BT phail?

I realise I've just pirated a significant amount of text from a (presumably) (c) BT page. Oh, whatever. Go ahead and sue BT... my first defence witnesses will be, er, BT and that Kent bloke since they've convinced me that anything "on that t'tinterweb thingy" = public domain :angel::D

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Indeed - "We have no idea" because the form calls a routine on the (Phorm owned) server to create the email. In my world of work we do this all the time on web pages, but I think we have no way of knowing what the routine on the Phorm owned server actually does. It could be storing copies of the "Sent" emails or it may be writing the field inputs to a database or it may not. Either way, their probably IS a copy in some form, somewhere, owned by Phorm or accessible to them.

Hank

---------- Post added at 06:58 ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 ----------

Yeah, but they might not send it it might just be collected because users are filling in the form and clicking the button. Effectively their customer/user is sending it using the "Phorm owned form". What appears to be so wrong (to me anyway) is that the form has BT all over it and not "Phorm" - deceptive little ***** - just what we have come to expect of them!

Hank

---------- Post added at 07:01 ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 ----------

Might be stretching the facts to say Phorm are intercepting it. The user is making the input and clicking the send button and it is not being intercepted per se. No, the simple fact seems to be that the page itself and routine behind it on the server "IS PHORM". So, you are right in the sentiments - it's wrong and BT won't like being caught on this further deception...

It just all stinks, like a great big pile of stinking stuff.

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And when asked, prior to me using the form and suspecting it was a Phorm phishing form, BT specifically claimed it as one of their own.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Had a reply back from the APWG.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Now would be the time to respond pointing out the phorm-owned pages masquerading as BT requiring that you fill in large quantities of personal details :P

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Haven't posted much recently, life is too hectic and this forum moves way too quickly. However, I would like to add something to the discussion of the contact page on www.webwise.bt.com.

I am not a lawyer, but I am a software engineer :).

Over the years, I have worked for many companies that have pages like this on their sites. I have even worked on jobs where I have had to provide these services from one company to another and rebrand them to make them appear as though they are part of another system. For example, company A wants to use company Bs contact us page but brand it as being from company A.

This is what I believe it happening here. BT is using their relationship with Phorm to have them host and rebrand a conatct us type page to gather questions from customers.

Back in the day, forms like this would simply email the data to the approriate address for the company to read and answer. However, this type of form proved open to abuse, allowing people to use it as an open email relay. So these days the data is usually captured and stored somewhere before being sent to the company.

Given that the data is capture on a site hosted on a US server I would assume that the captured data would be stored somewhere on that server. This would be bad.

I assume that the data is being sent via email unencrypted as well. If this is the case then it is also bad.

Maybe I just see the worst in everything, but my experience tells me that all that data you enter on that form is recorded in a database over in the US and then passed back to BT over email. If that is the case then it scares the doo doo out of me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well there are plenty of lies being told as part of the webwise faqs. ;) I think who / where / how the webwise pages are being hosted is a legitimate cause for concern. I just don't find the fact that BT and phorm are exchanging emails about your questions surprising, thats all.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"Phorm and Webwise - the EC says system that will watch you online may be illegal under European Law"


http://www.mobileshop.com/blog/editorial-opinions/phorm-and-webwise-the-ec-says-system-that-will-watch-you-online-may-be-illegal-under-european-law/





NOTE: Emma Sanderson did not appreciate having Wipe-O-Matic picture beating her own uglymug official photo on Google Images, so she had it removed. Well done BT! Just goes to show when you really don't want some filthy junk you can ring up and get it taken down... pity we can't say the same about getting BT spying and WebLies removed with a couple of complaints. ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree that this probably what is happening (we non-lawyers should stick together!) In fact BT privacy policy implies as much

It seems they have themselves covered legally if not morally in the fine print.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

oh dear , what a shame, share price is sliding again :P

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh don't get me wrong - I'm not "surprised" at all -why do you think I used the contact form in the first place? I wouldn't be surprised nowadays by virtually any revelation that came out of the sewer about BT's behaviour.

But that doesn't lessen my sense of moral outrage. (I'm good at moral outrage!)

BT and Phorm are in bed together. They got married about two years ago in secret, but only announced the engagement recently (when photographs of them in a secret clinch in both 2006 and 2007 were published). The prenuptial agreement seems to have been a tough one, otherwise they might have announced a separation when the faeces hit the ventilation system a few months ago.

So given that they have a common financial interest in the success of Webwise (one that runs directly counter to MY interests as a customer and citizen) I'm ready for any revelation about their joint activities.

But I'm trying not to let my moral sensibilities get coarsened by the low ethical standards of my ISP's senior management.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm not convinced - if I've served them with a DPA notice...
"I HEREBY GIVE NOTICE to BT that until further written notice from me you must not begin processing for the purposes of direct marketing personal data in respect of which I am the data subject. The Terms and Conditions to which I agreed make no mention of intercepting data by routeing it through BTWebwise or Phorm servers or any other means of capturing, profiling, mirroring, touching, forwarding or looking at such data for any such purpose or for inspection or analysis or interpretation by third party commercial enterprises.

I also draw your attention to the Common Law right to privacy where "a duty of confidence arises when confidential information comes to the knowledge of a person in circumstances where he has notice, or is held to have agreed, that the information is confidential, with the effect that it would be just in all the circumstances that he should be precluded from disclosing the information to others." I HEREBY GIVE FURTHER NOTICE that any of my personal data that may be captured, profiled, mirrored, touched, forwarded or looked at is confidential and that BT has a duty in law to respect that confidentiality and not allow any of that data to be stored, mirrored, profiled or analysed for the benefit of a third party, notwithstanding any confidential data that BT holds that relates specifically to the normal operation of my Broadband service.".....

does that not override anything in the Privacy Policy or the T & Cs?

g

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I presume that Mr Livingstone (ouch!) will be trying hard to make phorm a success:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4023310.ece

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

I expect they would just 'retire' you as a customer. It you've got a tenner to blow you can write and ask them what personal data they hold on you.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ha! I tried that - specifically over the secret trials in 06 and 07- they replied to say they didn't keep PII about those, so had nothing to impart, but they cashed the cheque!
(To be fair, someone in the legal team has just written to say he'll arrange a refund.)
g

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How does one go about writing a news article for C/F please? I found the News page but couldn't see how to compose an article.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just highlights the fact that BT must be watching us closely because how would Chubby Emma le-le-legal Sanderson have otherwise know about the Google Image search result?

Hi Emma :waving:


:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Over the last few days the trades have all been low volume.

What is quite interesting to note, is that although the share price is at what must be an all time low, there are no big investors buying in for the long term.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yeah, poor lil Emma, poor didums baby. She didn't like my thread over on BadPhorm either so she had them remove that thread too LOL

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?6184 "Dude where's my thread gone?"


Emma! Please find somewhere to hide because you'r not going to like what's coming next

Hi Scleparis, Hi Hackeron, Hi Phorm Hackers :waving:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Emma, I'm not a BT Broadband customer, NOR WILL I EVER BE AFTER THIS, NOR ANYONE WHO TAKES MY ADVICE. :PP::2up::2up:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Okay Dudes and Dudesses,



BadPhorm ULA across the top of your jacket

Motif Emblem in the middle

Your Chapter at the bottom... i.e. London, Essex, Kent etc

Anyone got any ideas for the Motif? (it's got to be some kind of wiretap thingy hasn't it?)




I'm not sure how many member will be in my chapter I might have to re-locate
"Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysili ogogogoch"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You trying to get me banned?:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ROFL

No we can't use Emma in some compromising positions for our club patch! We'll save 'them' for the YouTube video's ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

whats that, saying phorm is le-le-le-le-legal? honest g-g-g-g-guv,while holding their legal advice (print side facing the press, like a certain gov official):dunce: that says we think it should be so long as you don't let anyone know the detail of what it does:D:D:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Keep up the good work, poor Emma, she cannot handle being profiled on the internet, but its fine for everyone else, sorry hen, your talking schite.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK I am having a little fund raiser to pay my mortgage next month, the London trips had a bigger dent on my finances than I expected. So I am going to be selling my iPAQ, my projector and my car (Rover 600 1997 (P Plate) 88k Miles, taxed and MOT'd 6cd changer).

I am going to put the iPAQ and projector on eBay tonight, but if anyone is interested in making me an offer before I do, send me a PM.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Woooo .... Huge sells!!


http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp...re=phorm_reg_s

Nearly £800K (75,000 shares)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Awe man don't say that! Emma's skin condition is already bad enough after her first scare appearing on C4 News lying her head off.. If she thinks she's going to get a public profiling (get shredding Emma!) then her beautiful lil face is going to break out in warts, boils and pustules all over the place! Then how is she going to do television interviews looking like the wicked witch of the east?


Msg: Please can the Emma photo dude PM me with the URL of the photo from the BadPhorm thread that got deleted this morning! :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

over 1.5M USD dumped in 30 seconds.... running for the hills is a term that springs to mind.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alexander - can you set up some kind of online donation mechanism?

Or apply for funding from organisations like FIPR/Privacy International/ORG/Liberty/Amnesty?

Its not fair that you carry the can for this on your own. If regulators won't confront BT, and those organisations won't take Phorm on (esp PI who should hang their heads*), I'll chip in what I can.

You're doing a better job of representing my views than they are. You deserve some financial
support.

* Search on privacyinternational.org; "No matches were found for 'phorm'" :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well my paypal is paladine at naked dash geek dot net if people want to help but I would rather they bought something so they are getting something tangible for their money.

No-one forced me to go to London, it was a judgement I made myself. I have another trip to London next week for an interview with a company interested in sponsoring my masters so that hit the wallet for another 70 quid (damn trains), hopefully it will be worth it though.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How about a dripping tap mounted on a phone line between two phone poles.
The drips would be £ signs falling into a Phorm info/money converter box underneath.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What would you do if Kent donated to your paypal account? Knowing that b~stard he'd want to present you with one of them huge cardboard cheques and half a dozen photographers snapping away while you two shook hands.


On the back of the cheque would be a note from Kent... "0wn'd" ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He can't afford to given how much he has lost this week. I expect I may see him busking at Euston station on Tuesday ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

LMAO!

---------- Post added at 15:40 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------


/me with guilty look of shame on face :(

I'll send Emma some flowers to make up... a lovely bunch of nettles and a posy of deadly nightshade. :luv: try the chocolate too Emma I made them special ;)


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/05/11.jpg

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wonder if he will be lurking around at the BT AGM to be held at the Barbican 16 July 2008. He may even have a seat at the top table by then. Anyone for a spare proxy card? Would give you the chance to ask questions of the Board on my behalf.

Xpilot AKA Richard Hawkins.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You've just given me a good idea. If someone is ballsy enough to do it, they could make the point that everything on the web isn't quite public domain in the sense that BT mean by actually copying BTs website and all its logos onto a different domain - perhaps call it 'btsucks.com'.

Are they going to sue for copyright infringement? If so, wouldn't this undermine their assertion that if it's on the web it's free to use and exploit?

Anyone up for it?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"Le-le-legal" gag courtessy of Peter N over on BT support Forums:

http://beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread...essageID=23659 (¾ down page)

@Peter N - I would (if I had a BT account) have at least posted that I thought your rap was great before using the emma stutter in my post...

:D ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Seriously guys, lay off Emma Sanderson's appearance. It's sexist and it's *****.

By all means, criticise her values and her behaviour, but criticising her based on her skin tone is simply childish, rude, and demeaning to yourselves.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

iPAQ now listed on ebay if anyone is interested PM me and I will send you the link.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just for ***** and giggles...
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/05/10.jpg

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok,from recent evidence alone, she's a lying, useless, face-in-the-trough corporate whore that would sell her families organs for the right price.


Let not it be said that I cannot be politically correct.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Point taken but I didn't mention her skin tone?

Not that she'd look twice at me, unless as a "bit of rough", but she's not that bad looking...

My previous post was actually in response to a post I just saw on BT Support Forums where because I don't use BT as an ISP - I can't post!

Sorry if you thought I was trying to stir things up...


:)

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:56 ----------

Maybe something like this (just an idea - not the finished article):

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6228/ww3ax1.gif


:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Very good.

This is the music to background this picture.

S-Express-Theme from S-Express
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JP_2qjzj73Y

The fly black girl "Oh that's bad!"
Pimp Daddy "No, that's good"

1min55s into song

Enjoy BT pimp daddies new theme music ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Of course, you could like to BT using:

http://www.datapimpingservices.com

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And while were letting privacy slip through our fingers for good, let's all dance out the end of private communications in blissful ignorance to this little number.

Dee Lite - Groove Is In The Heart

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKTCW4oxS6I

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

somebody who lives in the real world then!

this thread seems to have lost its focus.