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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

Florence 06-07-2008 14:14
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34593069)
Following on from your revelation I noticed that Bruce Schneier, who was mentioned a few pages earlier in this thread, did a mention of a joint paper by the said mentioned.

http://www.wired.com/politics/securi...tymatters_1213

I found the comment "The moral is that it takes only a small named database for someone to pry the anonymity off a much larger anonymous database." quite an interesting point. In a nutshell, if I have not misunderstood, the gist it seems is that if you can extract some identifying data from say from a blog or from in fact anywhere, you can apply this to a larger anonymous database and quite possibly identify the individual and their habits from this. The algorithms apparently used are fairly robust.
This is one of the main reasons I have been writing to the ICO saying they should be supporting the public not allowing Phorm in any form on the ISPs.
Sadly the present ICO staff are either totallly lacking in vision of what can happen, lacking in any ability to understand or totally incompetant on technical issues.

BT management on the other hand shjould be able to understand hence the last remark for the ICO is inline or people in high places have accepted some phorm of gratification to see this through.

kagemusha 06-07-2008 15:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter N (Post 34592868)
Be careful if filming or photographing as any recording of shareholders, bystanders or passers-by could be deemed a breach of privacy and you don't want to give BT or Phorm any easy points to pick you up on where that's concerned.

Be especially careful with the shareholders as you don't want to rile them and check up on the current state of the law regarding any filming where children's images could be captured.

The last thing you want is someone accusing you of double standards or, worse still, being arrested or having your recordings confiscated for breach of privacy.
Your rights are quite clear, as long as you are in a public place you can photograph anything you like. If a policeman or security guard attempts to confiscate your recordings they can be prosecuted for criminal damage.

http://www.urban75.org/photos/photog...d-the-law.html

Lots of cameras means lots of protection, if anyone starts harassing a photographer, have someone else film it with a video camera. I'd also say photograph anything that moves, make them squirm, give them a taste of what it is like to lose their privacy - even if it is just for a few seconds.

tarka 06-07-2008 15:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagemusha (Post 34593155)
Your rights are quite clear, as long as you are in a public place you can photograph anything you like. If a policeman or security guard attempts to confiscate your recordings they can be prosecuted for criminal damage.

http://www.urban75.org/photos/photog...d-the-law.html

Lots of cameras means lots of protection, if anyone starts harassing a photographer, have someone else film it with a video camera. I'd also say photograph anything that moves, make them squirm, give them a taste of what it is like to lose their privacy - even if it is just for a few seconds.
tell them that everything will be fine because you'll blur out their faces later... 'honest guv'... but at least you'll still know their taste in clothing.

Wildie 06-07-2008 16:01
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
just tell everyone it`s for happy slapping you tube ;)

Kursk 06-07-2008 17:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hang on a minute. We shouldn't set ourselves up in opposition to people, it is the concept of privacy invasion we object to, not the shareholders of anything. And despite the legality of being free to photograph what one pleases, it is something that many would not welcome and that should be respected. Look, months of hard work have gone into this campaign and we don't want the demo to degenerate into a 'them versus us' confrontation. The demo is our public face. There are even BT shareholders amongst us.

The demo has to be orderly with the aim of attracting more support not making ordinary people feel uncomfortable. Being irresistibly reasonable (and right!) are much better tactics than a war of attrition which is why the debate here has attracted interest at the highest level.

warescouse 06-07-2008 17:38
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 34593273)
Hang on a minute. We shouldn't set ourselves up in opposition to people, it is the concept of privacy invasion we object to, not the shareholders of anything. And despite the legality of being free to photograph what one pleases, it is something that many would not welcome and that should be respected. Look, months of hard work have gone into this campaign and we don't want the demo to degenerate into a 'them versus us' confrontation. The demo is our public face. There are even BT shareholders amongst us.

The demo has to be orderly with the aim of attracting more support not making ordinary people feel uncomfortable. Being irresistibly reasonable (and right!) are much better tactics than a war of attrition which is why the debate here has attracted interest at the highest level.
Totally correct and if I could add, most shareholders are probably unaware of Phorm/WebWise and as such we should be trying to get them onside and we should definitely not be alienating them.

isf 06-07-2008 17:41
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madslug (Post 34592846)
This just pollutes your traffic with spam and uses up your bandwidth and the bandwidth of sites you are visiting. It does nothing to protect the security of your internet connection and provides zero data protection. It is just a red herring, even it a well intentioned.
I can't speak for that implementation but (in the event they ever manage to go live) widespread fuzzing of Phorms data would reduce it's potential value to advertisers. Generally I'd see that as a good thing.

tarka 06-07-2008 17:43
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Apologies, my comment was meant in jest to highlight the obvious parallels to webwise/phorm, not to suggest that we should take that course of action. I do agree that we should not be opposing shareholders and you sum it up perfectly with the following line...

"And despite the legality of being free to photograph what one pleases, it is something that many would not welcome and that should be respected."

Kursk 06-07-2008 17:52
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarka (Post 34593295)
Apologies, my comment was meant in jest to highlight the obvious parallels to webwise/phorm, not to suggest that we should take that course of action. I do agree that we should not be opposing shareholders and you sum it up perfectly with the following line...

"And despite the legality of being free to photograph what one pleases, it is something that many would not welcome and that should be respected."
No apology necessary, but thank you ;). I know that all (well, most) who contribute to this high quality thread share a common interest. We have a real chance of achieving something if we keep our heads and stay determined but rational. The demo could make a huge difference to our support.

alt3rn1ty 06-07-2008 18:21
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarka (Post 34593295)
Apologies, my comment was meant in jest to highlight the obvious parallels to webwise/phorm, not to suggest that we should take that course of action. I do agree that we should not be opposing shareholders and you sum it up perfectly with the following line...

"And despite the legality of being free to photograph what one pleases, it is something that many would not welcome and that should be respected."
:) Good to hear Tarka, and if anyone posing as a supporter tries stirring trouble/being confrontational I suggest everyone immediately distance yourself from that person

Kymmy 06-07-2008 18:25
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alt3rn1ty (Post 34593317)
:) Good to hear Tarka, and if anyone posing as a supporter tries stirring trouble/being confrontational I suggest everyone immediately distance yourself from that person
Even better to use the REPORT POST button and alert the moderators ;)

Kymmy

popper 06-07-2008 18:32
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 34593273)
Hang on a minute. We shouldn't set ourselves up in opposition to people, it is the concept of privacy invasion we object to, not the shareholders of anything. And despite the legality of being free to photograph what one pleases, it is something that many would not welcome and that should be respected. Look, months of hard work have gone into this campaign and we don't want the demo to degenerate into a 'them versus us' confrontation. The demo is our public face. There are even BT shareholders amongst us.

The demo has to be orderly with the aim of attracting more support not making ordinary people feel uncomfortable. Being irresistibly reasonable (and right!) are much better tactics than a war of attrition which is why the debate here has attracted interest at the highest level.
TBO, im not sure were this is coming from, the whole point of any video and audio interviewing is to help inform and educate people to the real dangers that customer DPI for profit bring.

theres no intention to make anyone uncomfortable, if they dont want to participate , they are free to go about their business uneffected, it not a problem, Pete mentioned some valid and good points, and its now clear there are no real problems in public space and thats fine.

any action thats unreasonable will OC be discuraged as not a good thing, the whole idea is to inform and collect our own user generated realtime content to be used in helping the wider populas that cant be there on the day, and those that do not know about any of this as yet.

video and audio sound bites if you will, as not everyone takes to reading messageboard text, but will watch short information video and audio clips when placed in front of them, the TV generation is long, as is their average habits, so thats why i beleave it's in our longer term interest to make it, if your able.

there are still masses of people that once they see these potentially many user created interview clips, will also fall on this side, that is the only side im refering to, Pro or Anti DPI for profit, at ordinary users cost in every part of the UK (in this case), and beyond.

alt3rn1ty 06-07-2008 18:35
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 34593321)
Even better to use the REPORT POST button and alert the moderators ;)

Kymmy
LOL I thought we were talking about the actual demo "quick hit the report butto..... oh godz wheres my laptop". Silly me

jelv 06-07-2008 18:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
This really has turned in to a jumbo topic! (sorry - someone had to say it)

I suspect that Phorm had hoped that the protests would be drying up by now, not still gathering pace after this number of pages.

The one thing that concerns me is what Phorm/BT are planning the counter the protest.

warescouse 06-07-2008 19:05
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
To be honest Phorm/BT can do what they like. It does not concern me at all. If they (BT/Phorm) want to bring a bit more publicity to the occasion it would be very nice although I doubt that they will. In my opinion, it's more an educational/publicity demo, not a protest against the AGM. I imagine the location was picked to maximise publicity seeing the strong involvement of BT management in the current Phorm/Webwise issue.


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