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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

mark777 26-05-2008 03:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Spotted by Peter N on BT forum.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_569290.html

"The problem for newspapers is that a story headlined 'Two Dead in Baghdad' isn't very product-friendly," said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive of Phorm, a behavioral targeting company working with British newspapers. "But if you know who is looking at the page, that's where the opportunity is."

I think what the slime-ball is trying to say is that he knows a good way to make money out of this sort of headline. You might read such an article to keep yourself informed about important events, but if Phorm knows you are interested in a holiday in Spain, you can also see all the ads for Spanish package holidays at the same time.

I know several members of our armed forces who have recently seen active service in that neck of the woods, including someone who has been awarded a Military Cross. They will be less than impressed by this statement and I intend to ask what the MOD think of it.

Kent, you are an idiot.

popper 26-05-2008 04:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560034)
Spotted by Peter N on BT forum.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_569290.html

"The problem for newspapers is that a story headlined 'Two Dead in Baghdad' isn't very product-friendly," said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive of Phorm, a behavioral targeting company working with British newspapers. "But if you know who is looking at the page, that's where the opportunity is."

I think what the slime-ball is trying to say is that he knows a good way to make money out of this sort of headline. You might read such an article to keep yourself informed about important events, but if Phorm knows you are interested in a holiday in Spain, you can also see all the ads for Spanish package holidays at the same time.

I know several members of our armed forces who have recently seen active service in that neck of the woods, including someone who has been awarded a Military Cross. They will be less than impressed by this statement and I intend to ask what the MOD think of it.

Kent, you are an idiot.
"
"The problem for newspapers is that a story headlined 'Two Dead in Baghdad' isn't very product-friendly," said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive of Phorm
"

that is just sick, vile, and repulsive........:nono:
:upyours:
:sick:
:bsmack:

AlexanderHanff 26-05-2008 05:39
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Added to Wikipedia under "Company History" (last paragraph of Company History)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm

I have to say this one even surprised me, and I have met the man.

Forwarded it to Chris Williams at El Reg too and asked him to include it in the next article he does so people can see this man in his true colours.

Digg It - http://digg.com/tech_news/CEO_of_Pho..._death_and_war

Alexander Hanff

dav 26-05-2008 09:27
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34560048)
Added to Wikipedia under "Company History" (last paragraph of Company History)


Digg It - http://digg.com/tech_news/CEO_of_Pho..._death_and_war

Alexander Hanff
Dugg and commented.

bluecar1 26-05-2008 10:31
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
i can think of another headline that he would not view as product friendly

"the truth about phorm / webwise " in big red letters on the front of the sun, what a bshame it has not appeared yet

Hank 26-05-2008 10:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius365 (Post 34559732)
Have also Reported via IE web filter tools> phishing filter>report this website (go to www.webwise.bt.com 1st)
I have gone on to this page in my browser: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php

Clicked Tools in IE7 and reported the site as a Phishing site.

Thanks Sirius

Hank

Wild Oscar 26-05-2008 11:15
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560034)
"The problem for newspapers is that a story headlined 'Two Dead in Baghdad' isn't very product-friendly," said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive of Phorm, a behavioral targeting company working with British newspapers. "But if you know who is looking at the page, that's where the opportunity is."
What an appalling thing to say!!

Just goes to show what kind of 'businessman' he really is ... :mad:

wecpc 26-05-2008 11:24
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank (Post 34560089)
I have gone on to this page in my browser: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php

Clicked Tools in IE7 and reported the site as a Phishing site.

Thanks Sirius

Hank
I have just done likewise and reported it in IE7.

Colin

Hank 26-05-2008 11:32
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Wonder why they could not quite do the job right at http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php

They've got a broken image at the top because they missed out a slash in the path:
http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/imageslogo_75x36.gif
(http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/images/logo_75x36.gif)

Silly plonkers.

Hopefully they've missed out something equally small and vital in Ts & Cs or contracts that will leave Phorm hanging from a cliff. And nowadays I don't care if BT joins them there too.

Hank

Rchivist 26-05-2008 11:45
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560034)
Spotted by Peter N on BT forum.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_569290.html

"The problem for newspapers is that a story headlined 'Two Dead in Baghdad' isn't very product-friendly," said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive of Phorm, a behavioral targeting company working with British newspapers. "But if you know who is looking at the page, that's where the opportunity is."

I think what the slime-ball is trying to say is that he knows a good way to make money out of this sort of headline. You might read such an article to keep yourself informed about important events, but if Phorm knows you are interested in a holiday in Spain, you can also see all the ads for Spanish package holidays at the same time.

I know several members of our armed forces who have recently seen active service in that neck of the woods, including someone who has been awarded a Military Cross. They will be less than impressed by this statement and I intend to ask what the MOD think of it.

Kent, you are an idiot.
I'm not sure where on the toilet - down pipe - sewer - sewage farm continuum this puts Mr Ertugrul and his nasty little company, but whereever it is, BT are right there alongside him. Personally I think I'd locate it somewhere just below the outfall/discharge pipe.

I've sent this one up to BT management just so they know where they are PR-wise.

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank (Post 34560089)
I have gone on to this page in my browser: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php

Clicked Tools in IE7 and reported the site as a Phishing site.

Thanks Sirius

Hank
I've just noticed - the BT logo has disappeared off the page - I think we may be rattling them. Keep reporting it, everyone - maybe they will even move it back to BT servers.

---------- Post added at 10:45 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank (Post 34560109)
Wonder why they could not quite do the job right at http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php

They've got a broken image at the top because they missed out a slash in the path:
http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/imageslogo_75x36.gif
(http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/images/logo_75x36.gif)

Silly plonkers.

Hopefully they've missed out something equally small and vital in Ts & Cs or contracts that will leave Phorm hanging from a cliff. And nowadays I don't care if BT joins them there too.

Hank
Not silly plonkers- worried plonkers. That logo was there yesterday. It's the phishing reports that have got them worried?

Just keep them on the run, keep harassing them.

Why not write to BT Retail legal again with the phishing allegation?

Wildie 26-05-2008 11:50
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Reported the site as a phish

gnilddif 26-05-2008 12:08
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Re the BT Contact link on the BT Webwise page:

Back in early March I asked a question of BT Webwise using this link - it must have been the http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
page. It took someone a while to reply, but here it is, received on March 13 2008:

<quote, with personal details edited out>
Dear Mr. (My surname)

Thank your for your email and apology in delay in responding.

I can confirm that on the 14 Feb BT, Talk Talk and Virgin Media all
confirmed that we had entered in to agreements with Phorm, enabling us
to offer to our customers a new free internet feature called Webwise.
Webwise provides an additional level of protection against malicious
websites and ensures fewer irrelevant adverts. In essence a safer and
more relevant browsing experience. Prior to the announcement BT
thoroughly researched Webwise and was encouraged by the very positive
consumer response to the service.

Clearly our customer's privacy is extremely important to us. Information
on users browsing is completely anonymous, it doesn't gather personally
identifiable information, doesn't store URL's, IP addresses or retain
browsing histories and the raw data used is deleted in real time - by
the time the page loads. Webwise does not scan webmail pages so your
emails on Gmail, Yahoo mail or Hotmail are not scanned. Secure pages
like your banking websites and web forms like any online registration or
sign-up forms are not scanned. No personal information often contained
in form fields is therefore ever captured by the system. No data is
passed outside of BT's network. Webwise privacy standards have been
verified by external auditor Ernst & Young, Of course BT, TalkTalk and
Virgin Media have all completed appropriate due diligence on Phorm, we
also understand that other ISP's both in and outside of the UK are
currently talking to them.

BT expects to begin technical trials of the BT Webwise service shortly.
We will be inviting around 10,000 BT broadband Consumer customers to
take part in the trial. The trial invitation will be presented through a
special web page that will appear when those customers start a web
browsing session. At this point, those customers invited can choose to
opt in, opt out or to find out more information. Customers choosing not
to take part will not be profiled. The www.bt.com/webwise site also
contains detailed information on the service and a one-click option to
switch the service off, which can be activated at any point during the
trial. The BT Privacy Policy and BT Total Broadband Service Terms will
be amended accordingly.

Opting out means that no browsing data whatsoever is processed. Opting
in and out of BT Webwise is extremely easy and completely transparent.
Standard opt out method does depend on a cookie remaining on your
machine indicating that you have opted out. If you delete your cookies
regularly, you will have to opt-out again each time you start a browsing
session. But for those who delete cookies regularly and want to remain
opted out, you can block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net on each
browser you use. When you block this domain, the service will opt you
out permanently.

I hope that this response allays the concerns that you have expressed.
Please note that BT Webwise service will not be available for BT Retail
Business customers.

-----Original Message-----
From: marketing@phorm.com [mailto:marketing@phorm.com]
Sent: 05 March 2008 19:24
To: marketing@phorm.com
Subject: BT.webwise.com Contact Request

*** This email came from a bt.webwise.com contact submission on Wed 5
Mar 14:23:34 EST 2008. ***

Title: Mr
First name: (My real first name)
Last name: (My real surname)
ISP: BT
Email: (my primary bt emailATbtopenworld.com)
Phone:
User type: Unknown User

Questions or comments:
I wish to ensure that no browsing history whatsoever is available to
your insidious snooping. Is www.oix.net the only URL that I must set
cookie-controls to reject?

</quote>

After you've had a good laugh at the atrocious grammar, punctuation and wonky syntax, have a think about the following:
1. No personal named signatory, as is normal, in my experience, from BT.
2. No BT department contained in the signature information, as is normal from BT.
2. A post to a BT department/organisation receives a reply mentioning other ISPs that are irrelevant to the subject matter.
3. The significance of the lines after and including marketingATphorm.com.
4. The date stamp - EST.

The evidence tells me that BT have passed my personal details to a third party that is outside the UK - phorm - specifically, my real name, my ISP and my primary BT email address. If I had inserted my phone number in the appropriate field, then they'd have that too.

But I may be wrong, so I'd be interested in any comments. I know the phorm issue can get get blood boiling, so carefully considered and unemotive please :) Is this a clear case of an offence under RIPA?

gnilddif

Florence 26-05-2008 12:39
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
This was taken from the bottom of the about webwise on BT website
For further information please go to www.BT.com/webwise
You would think you were going t a folder inside BT's BT.com domain but if you click or right click and select copy link you end up

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php

So BT are redirecting you to the phishing site knowing that you might accidently fill in details to contact them from that site thinking you are still on a BT website.

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

Just fired another email off to Emma she read the last one but not replied.

Quote:
Hello Emma

While looking over the webwise information I noticed the link to get further information link below
For further information please go to www.BT.com/webwise

While to the normal BT visitor/customer this will say they are staying inside BT's network or control when infact you are redirecting them to
http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php

This has a contact us page that isn't the same as BT's the domain name has been registered and hosted in America on a hosting company that is in the top ten for hosting phishing websites.
At lunch time yesterday this domain resolved to
So they are now resolving to the US again:

(Asked whois.arin.net:43 about +207.44.186.90)

OrgName: ThePlanet.com Internet Services Inc.
OrgID: TPCM
Address: 315 Capitol
Address: Suite 205
City: Houston
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 77002
Country: US
ReferralServer: rwhois: //rwhois.theplanet.com: 4321
NetRange: 207.44.128.0 - 207.44.255.255
CIDR: 207.44.128.0/17
OriginAS: AS13749 AS13884 AS21844 AS30315
OriginAS: AS36420
NetName: NETBLK-THEPLANET-BLK-EV1-9
NetHandle: NET-207-44-128-0-1
Parent: NET-207-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.EV1SERVERS.NET
NameServer: NS2.EV1SERVERS.NET

It has also been resolving to
Fasthosts in Gloucester UK:

There is nowhere in your pages where you warn your customers not to put information into this website as it isn't hosted by you or owned by you.
They decide to contact you while on that website they are giving their personal details to the phorm company outside the EU.

What will BT be doing to protect these customers from falling into this phish trap?

Regards
Kits

Copy of email to be posted on forums with information on any replies this is due to the nature of the information being stored on none BT servers outside of the EU and BT control.
To anyone who has filled in the contact us on that site you have just given Phorm your personal details outside of the EU and on an american hosted website I should complain to BT for them not informing you that they redirected you to a domain that looked like it was theirs but wasn't and outside their domains and control.

Wildie 26-05-2008 12:41
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
could it a way of them getting the victims sorry customers for the test they planning.:(

Rchivist 26-05-2008 15:03
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildie (Post 34560141)
could it a way of them getting the victims sorry customers for the test they planning.:(
I tried filling in the http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php form on the BT Webwise Phorm phishing site, with some made-up details, and got this when I clicked the button to submit:

(didn't work for contact-confirm.php either)

Not Found

The requested URL http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact-confirm.html was not found on this server.
Apache/2.2.3 (FH) Server at webwise.bt.com Port 80

I wonder?

BT logo has reappeared though.

mark777 26-05-2008 15:17
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
The 'Two Dead in Baghdad' quote can be found in The Washington Post, dated 22nd May.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102989_pf.html

GeordieF 26-05-2008 15:22
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Emailed it and the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review article to the Adjutant of my sons` Battalion as well as my local MLA, also emailed BT as IMO BT PLC is by association with Phorm also guilty.

Florence 26-05-2008 15:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34560213)
I tried filling in the http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php form on the BT Webwise Phorm phishing site, with some made-up details, and got this when I clicked the button to submit:

(didn't work for contact-confirm.php either)

Not Found

The requested URL http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact-confirm.html was not found on this server.
Apache/2.2.3 (FH) Server at webwise.bt.com Port 80

I wonder?

BT logo has reappeared though.
Maybe it isnt now but how many people have followed the link used it and given details thinking they are still inside BT domain and hosting like this post http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post7212.html where you see he sent a message giving his details and had a reply from Phorm. This is a breach in data protection since BT's own website directed them onto a domain they have no control or hosting without warning them thye are leaving BT's domain.. Infact they make it look like it is in their domain but redirect you..

gnilddif 26-05-2008 15:44
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Correction - I meant possible offence under DPA not RIPA. I feel I should report this or at least complain, but would be grateful for others' opinions first.
And report to whom? abuseATbt.com? ICO? The boys in blue?
g

Rchivist 26-05-2008 16:07
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34560238)
Maybe it isnt now but how many people have followed the link used it and given details thinking they are still inside BT domain and hosting like this post http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post7212.html where you see he sent a message giving his details and had a reply from Phorm. This is a breach in data protection since BT's own website directed them onto a domain they have no control or hosting without warning them thye are leaving BT's domain.. Infact they make it look like it is in their domain but redirect you..
Oh don't worry I'm not making excuses for them. Complaint to ICO will be going off in next day or so! I'm just seeing things "change" on that site and wondering if they are getting worried! Hope so.


Load time for BT Webwise site is now at least a couple of minutes.
Title of page on browser tab, is "BT Webwise|Contact BT"

Florence 26-05-2008 16:40
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I have already emailed Emma Sanderson at BT for replies to questions on this website she read the first one but not the second one mind sent second with a CC to BT's CEO as it was a posible DPA breach as they didn't wanr customer/visitors they were moving away from BT's domain name.

---------- Post added at 15:40 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnilddif (Post 34560250)
Correction - I meant possible offence under DPA not RIPA. I feel I should report this or at least complain, but would be grateful for others' opinions first.
And report to whom? abuseATbt.com? ICO? The boys in blue?
g
What you have to consider is when you moved to the domain about webwise was you ever warned this was not a BT website?
Did you follow the link from within BT's website like I did today where the link looked like you were staying inside BT's yet redirected you to outside?
Did BT op a window up saying you are now moving outside our domain and be carful with personal data.

Paul Delaney 26-05-2008 17:12
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34560111)
I've just noticed - the BT logo has disappeared off the page - I think we may be rattling them. Keep reporting it, everyone - maybe they will even move it back to BT servers.
I'd like to think we've got them running around like headless chickens!

Not knowing enough about the technology and very much aware of the fact that we know more, they're desperately trying to work out what part of the webwise contact site constitutes Phishing!

Maybe it's the BT Logo - get rid of it!!

Maybe it's the Contact Form - kill all the links!!

What the hell have they seen on this site??!!


It gives you a warm feeling just to imagine that you're a member of what has become in BT's eyes a respected body of opinion!

:D

gnilddif 26-05-2008 17:26
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34560284)
I have already emailed Emma Sanderson at BT for replies to questions on this website she read the first one but not the second one mind sent second with a CC to BT's CEO as it was a posible DPA breach as they didn't wanr customer/visitors they were moving away from BT's domain name.

---------- Post added at 15:40 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------



What you have to consider is when you moved to the domain about webwise was you ever warned this was not a BT website?
Did you follow the link from within BT's website like I did today where the link looked like you were staying inside BT's yet redirected you to outside?
Did BT op a window up saying you are now moving outside our domain and be carful with personal data.
Never any doubt at all: from first opening the BT Webwise page, through clicking the 'Contact BT' link to clicking Submit, I always believed I was, and would be communicating within the BT network.

g

SelfProtection 26-05-2008 18:46
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnilddif (Post 34560326)
Never any doubt at all: from first opening the BT Webwise page, through clicking the 'Contact BT' link to clicking Submit, I always believed I was, and would be communicating within the BT network.

g

I'm sure the Admins on the BT Forums would "love" this link being present on the Webwise thread at the moment.

It's the one that BT Links to to help customers protect themselves from "Phishing Scams"
http://uk.security.yahoo.com/protect...ing-scams.html

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelfProtection (Post 34560374)
I'm sure the Admins on the BT Forums would "love" this link being present on the Webwise thread at the moment.

It's the one that BT Links to to help customers protect themselves from "Phishing Scams"
http://uk.security.yahoo.com/protect...ing-scams.html
Not only is the form below, which asks for Personal Details not HTTPS, but did anyone also notice the ticked box at the bottom of the page!
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/sec.../phishing.html

Wildie 26-05-2008 18:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
anyone notice when you use bt yahoo search for webwise it pops up as 3rd on the list.

Rchivist 26-05-2008 19:22
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildie (Post 34560399)
anyone notice when you use bt yahoo search for webwise it pops up as 3rd on the list.
But if you try the BT Yahoo help pages and use the internal searchbox for Webwise, it returns zero hits.
And if you use the bt.com search box you get one hit with a broken link going nowhere.


Still - if lots of us report the webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php page as a phishing site via Firefox and IE7, then maybe it will get a bit more attention!

warescouse 26-05-2008 19:25
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34560407)
But if you try the BT Yahoo help pages and use the internal searchbox for Webwise, it returns zero hits.
And if you use the bt.com search box you get one hit with a broken link going nowhere.


Still - if lots of us report the webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php page as a phishing site via Firefox and IE7, then maybe it will get a bit more attention!
Reported to Google via Firefox.

icsys 26-05-2008 19:36
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Reported through IE7 ;)
...and on phishtank. However phishtank phails with this because to be verified as a valid 'phish' you have to be persuaded to get to the site via an e-mail. Phatal phlaw.

Phew!

I posted on Digital Spy about the phishing page, however, it would seem that there is apathy amongst users of DS. Either that or there are no BT customers that frequent the DS forums. 24 hours - 146 views but 0 replies or queries.

Phormic Acid 26-05-2008 19:55
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560227)
The 'Two Dead in Baghdad' quote can be found in The Washington Post, dated 22nd May.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102989_pf.html
When I put that link on BadPhorm, I was more concerned about Revenue Science. Kent’s quote about monetising the war in Iraq wasn’t the stand-out line for me. He’s been using the Iraq example for a while now.

He used a more generalised version of that example, in his presentation at the Phorm Town Hall Meeting.
Phorm Open Meeting Video Footage

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/23.png [the user is] browsing the web. And, this is where it gets interesting. They arrive in front of a blog, ok. How much money do you think that blog today is making from on-line advertising? The answer is almost certainly zero. If it’s making money, it’s pennies. And, why is that? Because they’re not big. Because they might not be about a subject category that is relevant to advertisers, so it might not be about cars. It might be about social policy. It might be about, I don’t know, the war in Iraq. Ok. Not really advertiser-conducive subject categories…

…Let’s say that this random number is now going to another page. It’s a newspaper site. People are reading fewer and fewer newspapers, and yet, when you move on-line as a newspaper, the numbers don’t stack up. So, what happens? The press disappears? This is a system that allows you to show adverts based at who’s looking at the page. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/24.png
This was picked up in an IDG News Service article by Jeremy Kirk.
Controversial Ad System Keeps Its Eye on the Money

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/23.png Ertugrul claims the technology especially appeals to newspapers, since it's hard to find an ad – even for reasons of taste – that would match a news story about a bombing in Baghdad. Instead, the ad is disassociated from the content on the page and aimed directly at a user. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/24.png
While Kent’s latest quote may have been particularly clumsy, it doesn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know about the world. Bad news sells. Therefore, advertisers often want their adverts snuggled up along side that bad news.

warescouse 26-05-2008 19:55
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Captured a few packets via wireshark for webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php about 30 minutes ago. Resolved to 207.44.186.90
Tried it again just now and it now resolves to Fasthosts???

Florence 26-05-2008 20:05
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34560425)
Captured a few packets via wireshark for webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php about 30 minutes ago. Resolved to 207.44.186.90
Tried it again just now and it now resolves to Fasthosts???
this is the major problem the domain is in phorm control so they can point it to any servers anywhere in the world and the people putting in BT information thinking they are on BT's domain name...

gnilddif 26-05-2008 20:17
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnilddif (Post 34560127)
Re the BT Contact link on the BT Webwise page:

(edited)
But I may be wrong, so I'd be interested in any comments. I know the phorm issue can get get blood boiling, so carefully considered and unemotive please :) Is this a clear case of an offence under RIPA?

gnilddif
Re my post #7212, I just quoted the whole email and sent it to abuseATbt.com, pointing out that it was ostensibly a BT site and asking if they agree it is a DPA offence and an example of phishing.

g

bluecar1 26-05-2008 20:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34560430)
this is the major problem the domain is in phorm control so they can point it to any servers anywhere in the world and the people putting in BT information thinking they are on BT's domain name...
anyway we can find out if the webwise subdomain has been delegated to phorm? or a name server outside the normal bt.com name servers?

Florence 26-05-2008 20:25
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34560439)
anyway we can find out if the webwise subdomain has been delegated to phorm? or a name server outside the normal bt.com name servers?
Looking at the emails http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post7212.html the member filled in the BT contact us on the webwise.BT.com and the reply with his real name etc is from Phorm to me then this member has given Phorm his real name BT telephone number possibly his BT bill thinking he was contacting BT to get a reply from Phorm...

mark777 26-05-2008 21:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnilddif (Post 34560127)
Re the BT Contact link on the BT Webwise page:

Back in early March I asked a question of BT Webwise using this link - it must have been the http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
page. It took someone a while to reply, but here it is, received on March 13 2008:

{snip}
I see the BT Forum Mods have been active again.

If Mark W would appreciate people not reporting the page to moderators and abuse teams, perhaps BT customers might appreciate an explanation as to why the page is apparently run by Phorm marketing, as gnilddif's e-mail seems to suggest?

EDIT : Oooh, I see that's just been asked. I bet there is no answer.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

The gadget show, now on Channel 5. After the break, news on how your browsing habits are to be sold off. On now. :hyper: :hyper:

Don't know if it will be about phorm, but it's likely.

icsys 26-05-2008 21:13
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Phorm is to be discussed on The Gadget Show channel 5. Airing NOW

U beat me to it

On right now... usual K*nt shpiel.......


Nice to hear that the Gadget Show disapprove of Phorm... but no mention of the E-petition.

mark777 26-05-2008 21:26
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34560467)
Phorm is to be discussed on The Gadget Show channel 5. Airing NOW

U beat me to it

On right now... usual K*nt shpiel.......
The best piece i've yet seen on the TV. They think it's wrong and will keep us posted. Good for C5.

BT Emma never looks very comfortable about this does she? :)

The Prince of Darkness just looks dodgy.

icsys 26-05-2008 21:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I think the Gadget Show webpage could do with a few more links to websites that warn about Phorm...

It already has a link to the BT phishing pages...

...and a BT ad banner down the right. :shocked:

mark777 26-05-2008 21:42
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34560481)
I think the Gadget Show webpage could do with a few more links to websites about Phorm...

It already has a link to the BT phishing pages...

...and a BT ad banner down the right. :shocked:
Done. Sent a link to the petition and inphormationdesk.

Contact details here :-

http://gadgetshow.five.tv/jsp/5gsmain.jsp?lnk=004

They need our encouragement, because I thought the piece was very good.

bluecar1 26-05-2008 22:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560489)
Done. Sent a link to the petition and inphormationdesk.

Contact details here :-

http://gadgetshow.five.tv/jsp/5gsmain.jsp?lnk=004

They need our encouragement, because I thought the piece was very good.
missed it, and there is no transcript or video on the website yet

mark777 26-05-2008 22:36
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34560523)
missed it, and there is no transcript or video on the website yet
Freeview EPG shows a repeat(?) at 2000 on Five Life tomorrow. I don't know if it will be the same episode though.

Rchivist 26-05-2008 22:44
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560448)
I see the BT Forum Mods have been active again.

If Mark W would appreciate people not reporting the page to moderators and abuse teams, perhaps BT customers might appreciate an explanation as to why the page is apparently run by Phorm marketing, as gnilddif's e-mail seems to suggest?

EDIT : Oooh, I see that's just been asked. I bet there is no answer.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

The gadget show, now on Channel 5. After the break, news on how your browsing habits are to be sold off. On now. :hyper: :hyper:

Don't know if it will be about phorm, but it's likely.
Not sure about this, but if you missed it - there is a Gadget Show at 8pm tomorrow on "Fiver" channel. (Freeview) - it may be a repeat?

Florence 26-05-2008 22:48
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
they have videos not sure how long before tonights episode will join them.

http://gadgetshow.five.tv/jsp/5gsmai...20the%20scenes

popper 26-05-2008 23:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560448)
I see the BT Forum Mods have been active again.

If Mark W would appreciate people not reporting the page to moderators and abuse teams, perhaps BT customers might appreciate an explanation as to why the page is apparently run by Phorm marketing, as gnilddif's e-mail seems to suggest?

EDIT : Oooh, I see that's just been asked. I bet there is no answer.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

The gadget show, now on Channel 5. After the break, news on how your browsing habits are to be sold off. On now. :hyper: :hyper:

Don't know if it will be about phorm, but it's likely.
missed it and there isnt any video online about it....

what did it cover, its clear that they covered Phorm, how long was the segment?.

its clear the researchers or the web page designers didnt cover much, as the one and only gadgetshow page is this, and there is nothing relating to the Anti-Phorm and the Phormettes side of the story.

they couldnt even enter the url right for that "privacy laws and business" link.

they do link to the US based Phishing "web wise" url though from there....

http://gadgetshow.five.tv/jsp/5gsmai...ction=Features


there doesnt seem to be anything on the youtube as regards todays section eather!

davethejag 26-05-2008 23:44
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34560523)
missed it, and there is no transcript or video on the website yet
I think that you will find that the repeat of tonights program is next Sunday morning at 10am. -
http://www.radiotimes.com/ListingsSe...s_fullpage.jsp

Keep up the good work you lot!!

davethejag

Rchivist 27-05-2008 00:31
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnilddif (Post 34560127)
Re the BT Contact link on the BT Webwise page:

Back in early March I asked a question of BT Webwise using this link - it must have been the http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
page. It took someone a while to reply, but here it is, received on March 13 2008:

<quote, with personal details edited out>
Dear Mr. (My surname)

Thank your for your email and apology in delay in responding.

I can confirm that on the 14 Feb BT, Talk Talk and Virgin Media all
confirmed that we had entered in to agreements with Phorm, enabling us
to offer to our customers a new free internet feature called Webwise.
Webwise provides an additional level of protection against malicious
websites and ensures fewer irrelevant adverts. In essence a safer and
more relevant browsing experience. Prior to the announcement BT
thoroughly researched Webwise and was encouraged by the very positive
consumer response to the service.

Clearly our customer's privacy is extremely important to us. Information
on users browsing is completely anonymous, it doesn't gather personally
identifiable information, doesn't store URL's, IP addresses or retain
browsing histories and the raw data used is deleted in real time - by
the time the page loads. Webwise does not scan webmail pages so your
emails on Gmail, Yahoo mail or Hotmail are not scanned. Secure pages
like your banking websites and web forms like any online registration or
sign-up forms are not scanned. No personal information often contained
in form fields is therefore ever captured by the system. No data is
passed outside of BT's network. Webwise privacy standards have been
verified by external auditor Ernst & Young, Of course BT, TalkTalk and
Virgin Media have all completed appropriate due diligence on Phorm, we
also understand that other ISP's both in and outside of the UK are
currently talking to them.

BT expects to begin technical trials of the BT Webwise service shortly.
We will be inviting around 10,000 BT broadband Consumer customers to
take part in the trial. The trial invitation will be presented through a
special web page that will appear when those customers start a web
browsing session. At this point, those customers invited can choose to
opt in, opt out or to find out more information. Customers choosing not
to take part will not be profiled. The www.bt.com/webwise site also
contains detailed information on the service and a one-click option to
switch the service off, which can be activated at any point during the
trial. The BT Privacy Policy and BT Total Broadband Service Terms will
be amended accordingly.

Opting out means that no browsing data whatsoever is processed. Opting
in and out of BT Webwise is extremely easy and completely transparent.
Standard opt out method does depend on a cookie remaining on your
machine indicating that you have opted out. If you delete your cookies
regularly, you will have to opt-out again each time you start a browsing
session. But for those who delete cookies regularly and want to remain
opted out, you can block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net on each
browser you use. When you block this domain, the service will opt you
out permanently.

I hope that this response allays the concerns that you have expressed.
Please note that BT Webwise service will not be available for BT Retail
Business customers.

-----Original Message-----
From: marketing@phorm.com [mailto:marketing@phorm.com]
Sent: 05 March 2008 19:24
To: marketing@phorm.com
Subject: BT.webwise.com Contact Request

*** This email came from a bt.webwise.com contact submission on Wed 5
Mar 14:23:34 EST 2008. ***

Title: Mr
First name: (My real first name)
Last name: (My real surname)
ISP: BT
Email: (my primary bt emailATbtopenworld.com)
Phone:
User type: Unknown User

Questions or comments:
I wish to ensure that no browsing history whatsoever is available to
your insidious snooping. Is www.oix.net the only URL that I must set
cookie-controls to reject?

</quote>

After you've had a good laugh at the atrocious grammar, punctuation and wonky syntax, have a think about the following:
1. No personal named signatory, as is normal, in my experience, from BT.
2. No BT department contained in the signature information, as is normal from BT.
2. A post to a BT department/organisation receives a reply mentioning other ISPs that are irrelevant to the subject matter.
3. The significance of the lines after and including marketingATphorm.com.
4. The date stamp - EST.

The evidence tells me that BT have passed my personal details to a third party that is outside the UK - phorm - specifically, my real name, my ISP and my primary BT email address. If I had inserted my phone number in the appropriate field, then they'd have that too.

But I may be wrong, so I'd be interested in any comments. I know the phorm issue can get get blood boiling, so carefully considered and unemotive please :) Is this a clear case of an offence under RIPA?

gnilddif
Are you sending that correspondence as it stands, to the ICO? If it was an email I had received I would certainly do that wth a copy sent to the BT Data Controller, and the BT Retail legal people.
Unfortunately the contact.php page on webwise.bt.com is no longer working - submissions do not actually get made - as I was going to try and make an enquiry myself and see what happened.

icsys 27-05-2008 00:38
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper (Post 34560562)
missed it and there isnt any video online about it....

what did it cover, its clear that they covered Phorm, how long was the segment?.

its clear the researchers or the web page designers didnt cover much, as the one and only gadgetshow page is this, and there is nothing relating to the Anti-Phorm and the Phormettes side of the story.

they couldnt even enter the url right for that "privacy laws and business" link.

they do link to the US based Phishing "web wise" url though from there....

http://gadgetshow.five.tv/jsp/5gsmai...ction=Features


there doesnt seem to be anything on the youtube as regards todays section eather!
The segment lasted about 6 minutes or so and briefly consisted of:
Jason and a laptop being stalked by people looking over his shoulder, talking about privacy and targeted ads online and how ISP's should be protecting customers privacy and not selling their browsing habits.
Phorm's relationship with BT, Virgin and CPW was briefly explained.
Then it cut to a short clip of K*nt giving his usual blah.. blah.. its all good!
Then Jason spoke of the rising tide against webwise whilst flashing up images of the various anti-Phorm websites.
A clip of an interview with Emma Sanderson, explained it could be switched on and off, mentioned "Due diligence" and "legal advice". Then stated that "BT has signed an agreement with Phorm".
A short video clip of another guy from a legal journal (cant for the life of me remember his or the journal name) gave a brief description of how it is believed to breach RIPA guidelines.

Finally Jason said how he believed that ISPs should have an obligation to defend their customers' privacy and ended with - "We are keeping an eye on this, and will keep you posted".

Those of you who saw it... I'm typing from memory... is this roughly right?

popper 27-05-2008 01:05
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
thanks, that sounds cool then.

we could do with a high quality AVC encode of the Phorm segment somtime being put up on your usual youtube GS section if you gadgetshow guys/girls/techs turn up here please. ;)

i just asked them all to come here and introduce themselves, and so catch up on the latest and greatest interception for profit intraISP assisted Phorm and the Phormettes information etc, in an email ;)

mark777 27-05-2008 01:08
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Some details of the gadget show item. I'll pick out some choice quotes.

The piece is presented by Jason Bradbury. He starts on the sofa.

"I want to tell you about the murkier side of ISP's"
"You pay, you their customers, pay for access to the internet".

Cuts to street scene. Privacy is something we all value and take for granted. If I walk down the street I don't expect someone to come up and look what colour pants I have on. (Girl runs up and looks at his pants).

If I work on my computer,I don't expect anyone to assume it's their right to know what i'm reading (girl sits behind looking over his shoulder).

What about the internet, are you sure it's private? He thinks it should be
private, it's your business and it should stay that way. (It's clear what he
thinks about it).

If you have an account with the top 3 ISP's your surfing habits will not remain
private for long because they intend to sell your browsing habits to advertisers. (Names the 3 and phorm/webwise).

Cut to Kent guff. Normal stuff. (Looks like he needs to eat more prunes.)

JB then explains that BT due to start soon, others later.

Cut to BT Emma. Trials start soon etc. Interestingly, same stutter when talking about legal advice as on C4 and BBC interviews. (She does not look convincing, more like a naughty school girl caught out on something).

JB then explains a lot depends upon how the options are presented. What happens by default etc.

"We believe this is very, very wrong. In fact we think your ISP has a moral
obligation not to just sell on your surfing habits, but to keep them completely
secure. After all, you are paying them."

"There is even some debate if Phorms services are even legal"

Cut to James Michael, Editor, Privacy Laws and Business. Talks about FIPR RIPA etc.

Asked Phorm about this. "There is no legal issue, we comply with all UK laws and have been in consultation with ICO and HO"

Suzy Perry - "If you want your browsing kept private in the future, it's worth
knowing about the plans of the leading 3 ISP' so we will keep you posted"

------------------------------------

It's not word for word, but a good gist of it. From our point of view I think it was excellent. BT and Phorm would not have liked it. I don't know what the viewing figures are for the gadget show, but whoever watched it will have had a bit of an eye opener.

EDIT : I see icsys beat me to it.

gnilddif 27-05-2008 01:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34560589)
Are you sending that correspondence as it stands, to the ICO? If it was an email I had received I would certainly do that wth a copy sent to the BT Data Controller, and the BT Retail legal people.
Unfortunately the contact.php page on webwise.bt.com is no longer working - submissions do not actually get made - as I was going to try and make an enquiry myself and see what happened.
Ah, you shouldn't have forewarned them ;) I get the feeling that quite a few BT staff haven't had a very relaxing Bank Holiday. Anyway, I had just started to prepare a report to the ICO, and will follow your suggestion of copying to the other two. Thanks R.

g

icsys 27-05-2008 01:14
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777
EDIT : I see icsys beat me to it.
But your transcript is much better ;)

I wish I had known in advance of the program, I would have recorded it!

mark777 27-05-2008 01:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34560608)
But your transcript is much better ;)

I wish I had known in advance of the program, I would have recorded it!
I've got the advantage of having a recording! If it's not repeated on 5 life tomorrow, i'll do a detailed transcript, but I think the main points are covered.

icsys 27-05-2008 01:21
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Last weeks viewing figures for THE GADGET SHOW (MON 1959) 0.92 Million

If just half that number google phorm it would help the cause tremendously.

Phormic Acid 27-05-2008 03:23
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x2 (Post 34551657)
The whole report was filled with wild optimism from start to finish but you really had to wonder about the international 'assumptions'. "France in Q1/10" anyone told the French yet?? 'Non' is a phrase that comes to mind.
I think you’re right about France. We know that, because of the nature of the system, Phorm are sometimes going to accidentally profile people without their consent. The defence of ‘automatically and without intent’ may stand up perfectly well in this country, however it doesn’t seem to hold much water when it comes to privacy legislation in France.
French websites liable for story in RSS reader
(Yes, that’s the same OUT-LAW.COM who said the Phorm system is ok in the UK because it’s only slightly illegal.)

gnilddif 27-05-2008 03:42
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnilddif (Post 34560607)
Ah, you shouldn't have forewarned them ;) I get the feeling that quite a few BT staff haven't had a very relaxing Bank Holiday. Anyway, I had just started to prepare a report to the ICO, and will follow your suggestion of copying to the other two. Thanks R.

g
Online complaint to ICO is on its way, and I've informed BT legal and Data Controller.
g

NTLVictim 27-05-2008 10:28
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560606)
snip...

Cut to BT Emma. Trials start soon etc. Interestingly, same stutter when talking about legal advice as on C4 and BBC interviews.
If it's the same stutter in the same place, it's deception...I smell a large rodent.

Was it exactly in the same place and with the same choice of words?

Florence 27-05-2008 10:54
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34560613)
Last weeks viewing figures for THE GADGET SHOW (MON 1959) 0.92 Million

If just half that number google phorm it would help the cause tremendously.

It is a step in the right direction, sad that to protect privacy you have to try to find help from non UK government sources since the government are like the large ISPs can't see anything past $$$$$$$$$

Time to vote them out which is easier since Brown wasn't voted in in the first place and is Scottish, explain why we have a scottish MP for Primeminister when UK MPs are not allowed to vote on Scottish law. The Scottish MPs shouldn't be allowed to vote on UK laws or rule as Head of the government. MPO


Enough off topic back to Phorm...

We will need to keep an eye on any domain names that can gather information to pass to supposedly BT when the domina name isn't infact in BT's control. As these domains can be pointed to any hosting company without BT even knowing they had changed but would result in Phorm harvesting BT personal details from customers..

---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 ----------

Just doing a check on webwise and noticed that they seem to have conflicting information.

Search for www.webwise.com gives
www.webwise.bt.com internet address 207.44.186.90
DNS Lookup Log:
Command line:
./nslookup '-timeout=5' '-query=A' -nodef 'www.webwise.bt.com'

Command output:
Server: int-ns1.dns.rcn.net
Address: 207.172.3.16

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.webwise.bt.com
Address: 207.44.186.90
---------------------------------

webwise.bt.com gives
Name Type Value
webwise.bt.com internet address 88.208.250.66
webwise.bt.com internet address 88.208.250.85
webwise.bt.com internet address 88.208.248.102
DNS Lookup Log:
Command line:
./nslookup '-timeout=5' '-query=A' -nodef 'webwise.bt.com'

Command output:
Server: int-ns1.dns.rcn.net
Address: 207.172.3.16

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: webwise.bt.com
Addresses: 88.208.250.85, 88.208.248.102, 88.208.250.66

------------------------------------------------------

That to me makes me worry since the main IP is the American hosting and the 88 ip range is in UK so to me this is set to phishing...

davethejag 27-05-2008 11:01
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hi All, Just seen this, apologies if it has been posted already. -
http://www.localtechwire.com/busines...story/2940963/

Don't forget the repeat of the Gadget Show next Sunday morning at 10am.

Regards to all. davethejag

mark777 27-05-2008 11:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34560694)
If it's the same stutter in the same place, it's deception...I smell a large rodent.

Was it exactly in the same place and with the same choice of words?
BT Emma's bit in full.

"We have signed an agreement with Phorm and we will be shortly trialling this new webwise feature with about 10,000 of our broadband customers. Any future plans are really dependent upon that trial. It will be completely optional so ultimately our customers will decide whether they want this new free feature or not and that BT has, as i'm sure have the other ISP's involved, done appropriate due diligence and sought extensive legal advice on this iss .. on this particular area."

There were lots of errs and umms. It looks like she was going to say advice on this issue, but changed it to particular area. To my mind, 'issue' would apply to the whole phorm issue. 'Particular area' leaves wriggle room. What particular area?

It would be nit picking, but the words appear to be well chosen, here and in other interviews. I don't think we can read too much into it, but it might be an indicator what BT execs are worried about.

This one looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights. :)

NTLVictim 27-05-2008 11:42
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34560740)
BT Emma's bit in full.

"We have signed an agreement with Phorm and we will be shortly trialling this new webwise feature with about 10,000 of our broadband customers. Any future plans are really dependent upon that trial. It will be completely optional so ultimately our customers will decide whether they want this new free feature or not and that BT has, as i'm sure have the other ISP's involved, done appropriate due diligence and sought extensive legal advice on this iss .. on this particular area."

There were lots of errs and umms. It looks like she was going to say advice on this issue, but changed it to particular area. To my mind, 'issue' would apply to the whole phorm issue. 'Particular area' leaves wriggle room. What particular area?

It would be nit picking, but the words appear to be well chosen, here and in other interviews. I don't think we can read too much into it, but it might be an indicator what BT execs are worried about.

This one looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights. :)
Yep, same stumble, same area..she's being economical with the truth, it's too much of a coincidence.

With people like that, it's good to listen to what they aren't saying..

adam91234 27-05-2008 11:49
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I think this is a huge invasion of privacy.

I have just read the post and will be contacting Virgin today to voice my concerns.

N.B. Still trying to build my 20 posts;)

3x2 27-05-2008 12:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34560728)
Hi All, Just seen this, apologies if it has been posted already. -
http://www.localtechwire.com/busines...story/2940963/
Same old same old ...

Quote:
But an alternative interpretation of the nature of the cyberspace is that any advertiser may legitimately assemble information that has been transmitted on what is clearly a very public network.
Oh well if it's a public network then by all means wire tap it.
While you are there don't forget all that free content out there ready to enhance your own product - steal away we don't mind.

Quote:
All the server farms and fiber optic cables that power today’s Internet are not cheap, and somebody has to pay.
I'll just tell VM that advertising will be paying my bills in future. Could I have your bank details.


Quote:
The New York legislation would be a death sentence for the online business models of the future because the bill makes it illegal to record any user behaviour unless that user has granted permission to be tracked.
God forbid that you should actually have to get permission before wire tapping my private communications.

What makes me really laugh about the advertising lobby is that they still don't seem to have identified the threat to their own world from allowing a tape worm into the system.

I could be the worlds most successful share trader - it's easy. Step one - wire-tap traders / companies / competitors private communications. Step two - clean up. There's a good reason that it's illegal.

warescouse 27-05-2008 12:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Unlike home, at work our ADSL connection is BT Business. Last week and today Google maps seems very odd. I cannot get complete diagrams and I seem to get lots of TCP CHECKSUM INCORRECT messages from 66.249.93.91 that does not seem to resolve to anything? Bit too busy at the moment to investigate thoroughly but seems a little odd? Any thoughts

Addendum
And 15 minutes after reporting it on the Forum everything is now working OK - Coincidence? Was consistently faulty for days prior to today!

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 12:41
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
You know I don't understand why people use the iii web site. Over the past week or so I have been comparing it with other sites such as LSE, Google Finance and ADVFN and the amount of trades that iii misses is unreal.

Even today they have missed 2 trades already. So just be aware if you are checking Phorm's performance on the markets, don't use iii as it is generally incorrect. For the record the last trade so far today was 500@ 1310.00 not 1000@ 1395.00

It is almost as if Phorm are paying iii to keep the low trades off the site.

Alexander Hanff

See there we go again, they have missed the low trades and only reported the high ones... definitely something fishy going on.

Rchivist 27-05-2008 12:45
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34560769)
Unlike home, at work our ADSL connection is BT Business. Last week and today Google maps seems very odd. I cannot get complete diagrams and I seem to get lots of TCP CHECKSUM INCORRECT messages from 66.249.93.91 that does not seem to resolve to anything? Bit too busy at the moment to investigate thoroughly but seems a little odd? Any thoughts
There was BT Business platform "maintenance" last week according to the announce newsgroup.

Tharrick 27-05-2008 12:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I just got an email from 'INFSO-b1@ec.europa.eu' that is apparantly my reply from Viviane Reding.

It contains a .tif file which appears to be a scanned letter - virus scanning now (paranoid, yes :P), I'll post it once I've had a chance to peruse/censor :P




Edit:

Ok. So, due to it being multiple pages long I don't appear to be able to get them all into photoshop, so I'll have to type it all out.
It's not from Comissioner Reding, but it is apparantly from someone instructed to reply on her behalf


Quote:
Originally Posted by Viviane Reding
The Comission is aware of the activities of the company Phorm in the UK, concerning the analysis of internet traffic for advertising purposes, the agreement between Phorm and major internet service providers in the UK and the concerns that have been raised about the effects on privacy of these activities. Privacy and the protection of personal data are fundamental rights of the citizens of the EU. They are enshrined in articles 7 and 8 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, and also protected by the European Convention on Human Rights and the related instruments of the Council fo Europe, to which all EU Member States are signatories.

The general principles of personal data are defined in Directive 95/46/EC and complemented and particularised for electronic communications by Directive 2002/58/EC on privacy and electronic communications (ePrivacy Directive). The ePrivacy Directive obliges Member States to ensure the confidentiality of communications and related traffic data through national legislation. In particular, they shall prhobit listening, tapping, storage or other kinds of interception or surveillance of communication and the related traffic data by persons other than the users without their consent, which must be freely given, specific and informed indication of the user's wishes[1]. The data concerned in this particular matter i.e. the content of search queries, constitute communication within the meaning of this Directive and the URLs used in the packets constitute traffic data. This data should therefore be protected appropriately.

The responsibility for the enforcement of national legislation transposing EU Directives is with the competent national authorities[2]. The ICO, the UK data protection authority, has issued several statements concerning Phorm. According to press information, the ICO is also investigating in at least one case, where a formal complaint has been made concerning alleged trials of Phorm technology by BT in 2007[3].
The Comission services will continue to follow this case and possible similar developments and take appropriate action, should the need arise. The Comission confirms its commitment to the protection of privacy and security of electronic communications as one of its top priorities

1) So, as we already knew, Phorm is illegal, and very much so.
2) Apparantly our national authorities are competent - this is news to me :P
3) This, also, is news to me.

NTLVictim 27-05-2008 13:03
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34560774)
You know I don't understand why people use the iii web site. Over the past week or so I have been comparing it with other sites such as LSE, Google Finance and ADVFN and the amount of trades that iii misses is unreal.

Even today they have missed 2 trades already. So just be aware if you are checking Phorm's performance on the markets, don't use iii as it is generally incorrect. For the record the last trade so far today was 500@ 1310.00 not 1000@ 1395.00

It is almost as if Phorm are paying iii to keep the low trades off the site.

Alexander Hanff

See there we go again, they have missed the low trades and only reported the high ones... definitely something fishy going on.
LSE search Phorm or phorm l or phrm not recognised.

Ravenheart 27-05-2008 13:13
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34560783)
I just got an email from 'INFSO-b1@ec.europa.eu' that is apparantly my reply from Viviane Reding.

It contains a .tif file which appears to be a scanned letter - virus scanning now, I'll post it once I've had a chance to peruse/censor :P
I've just had the same arrive in my inbox, I'm having a look now

EDIT: My reply is the same as the one Tharrick received

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34560788)
LSE search Phorm or phorm l or phrm not recognised.
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...%20B1WTNC4PHRM

warescouse 27-05-2008 13:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34560776)
There was BT Business platform "maintenance" last week according to the announce newsgroup.
At the time Google maps were non-performing, everything else seemed to be OK although I could prove that GoogleMaps itself was OK via VMedia connection at the same time. Where did the strange IP address come from?

Tharrick 27-05-2008 13:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
EDIT: My reply is the same as the one Tharrick received
Saves you a stack of typing then :P

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 13:54
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34560783)
I just got an email from 'INFSO-b1@ec.europa.eu' that is apparantly my reply from Viviane Reding.

It contains a .tif file which appears to be a scanned letter - virus scanning now (paranoid, yes :P), I'll post it once I've had a chance to peruse/censor :P




Edit:

Ok. So, due to it being multiple pages long I don't appear to be able to get them all into photoshop, so I'll have to type it all out.
It's not from Comissioner Reding, but it is apparantly from someone instructed to reply on her behalf





1) So, as we already knew, Phorm is illegal, and very much so.
2) Apparantly our national authorities are competent - this is news to me :P
3) This, also, is news to me.
Just quoted parts of that letter on the ADVFN thread and I have forwarded the info on to Chris Williams too (will do the same with Charles Arthur now).

Alexander Hanff

Rchivist 27-05-2008 14:03
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34560788)
LSE search Phorm or phorm l or phrm not recognised.
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp...re=phorm_reg_s

Ravenheart 27-05-2008 14:05
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34560815)
Saves you a stack of typing then :P
I'm a lazy cow, was going to print it then use my OCR software :)


This will be a handy letter to send as a follow up to my previous letters to Virgin, my MP and Barclays and the other organisations I've been in touch with.

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 14:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenheart (Post 34560821)
I'm a lazy cow, was going to print it then use my OCR software :)

I'm sure it's more than one page, but I can't seem to open the rest of it.

This will be a handy letter to send as a follow up to my previous letters to Virgin, my MP and Barclays and the other organisations I've been in touch with.
The TIF images need to be posted on inphormationdesk I think.

Alexander Hanff

Tharrick 27-05-2008 14:17
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I'd upload it here, but I have no idea how to convert a multi-page .tif into several individual-page .jpg files. Photoshop is no help here, as it only shows the first page.

NTLVictim 27-05-2008 14:24
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34560826)
I'd upload it here, but I have no idea how to convert a multi-page .tif into several individual-page .jpg files. Photoshop is no help here, as it only shows the first page.
OpenOffice?

Dunno how good THIS is, just found it..

Ravenheart 27-05-2008 14:34
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I've just converted it to a pdf file (and now single page jpeg's with my details removed) if that helps :)

Tharrick 27-05-2008 15:35
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Sounds like a good idea, you do the uploading then :P I'm too lazy/busy/<excuse of choice> right now :P

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 16:21
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Phorm shares could hit a 52 week low this week. Currently down at £12.50 (Down 8.26%)

Alexander Hanff

[EDIT] Correction 12.25 (down 10.09%) and equalling the 52 week low from last month.

mark777 27-05-2008 16:36
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Legs eleven!

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:PHRM

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 16:41
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
ITS OFFICIAL!

As of 15:19 this afternoon Phorm stock has hit a new low of £11.75 per share. Congratulations everyone, the only reason for the dramatic loss in confidence in their stock is the negative publicity generated by all of us and people elsewhere on the anti-Phorm wagon.

Lets hope it continues to drop below £10.00

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Looks like someone just made an emergency purchase to try and bring it back up again.

Paul Delaney 27-05-2008 16:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34560895)
ITS OFFICIAL!

As of 15:19 this afternoon Phorm stock has hit a new low of £11.75 per share. Congratulations everyone, the only reason for the dramatic loss in confidence in their stock is the negative publicity generated by all of us and people elsewhere on the anti-Phorm wagon.

Lets hope it continues to drop below £10.00

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Looks like someone just made an emergency purchase to try and bring it back up again.
:rofl:

fidbod 27-05-2008 17:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Good news on the shareprice.

Has there been any further news on the PIA release?

Ravenheart 27-05-2008 17:12
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here's a couple of Jpeg images of the email from the EC

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 17:12
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/16046

Wet your whistles on that one ;) I contacted Jon earlier today with the EU Commission replies and he has kindly done a new article based around them.

Alexander Hanff

Ravenheart 27-05-2008 17:22
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34560728)
Hi All, Just seen this, apologies if it has been posted already. -
http://www.localtechwire.com/busines...story/2940963/

Regards to all. davethejag
Interesting bit in that article Dave posted

Quote:
All this data is tied not to our names but to anonymous identifiers like cookies or IP address, which typically cannot be traced back to a particular individual except by court order.
Again proving that even with the marvellous mechanical Phorm anonymiser they still know who you are.

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 17:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
New Digg

http://digg.com/tech_news/EU_Commiss...ts_about_Phorm

Alexander Hanff

NTLVictim 27-05-2008 18:46
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
1,212.500 at the close.

AlexanderHanff 27-05-2008 19:07
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34560968)
1,212.500 at the close.
That is still a 52 week low I think, 12.25 was the low before today if I remember correctly.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

Dunno if anyone has seen this? I haven't before now so posting for reference:

http://privacylaw.proskauer.com/tags/phorm/

Alexander Hanff

warescouse 27-05-2008 19:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenheart (Post 34560921)
Here's a couple of Jpeg images of the email from the EC
The EC can tell the mighty Microsoft the rights and wrongs of their marketing practices and software engineering 'errors' they have built into their operating systems. They have also imposed large fines for the corrective 'inactions' on directives Microsoft's have been instructed to follow. I cannot see Phorm and BT being anything but a pushover should the EC decide to act on any illegalities past and present.

tdadyslexia 27-05-2008 20:15
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34560929)
Dug it!

mark777 27-05-2008 21:03
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
The gadget show just starting on Five Life (freeview C36) is the episode with the phorm item.

Portly_Giraffe 27-05-2008 21:23
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34560922)
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/16046

Wet your whistles on that one ;) I contacted Jon earlier today with the EU Commission replies and he has kindly done a new article based around them.

Alexander Hanff
Thanks Alexander - I've added the story to :
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/attributions.htm

under "European Commission position on Phorm"

davethejag 27-05-2008 21:27
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34561054)
The gadget show just starting on Five Life (freeview C36) is the episode with the phorm item.
Just watched it! Thanks mark777. How about somebody that recorded it putting it on YouTube?

Best to all. davethejag

NTLVictim 27-05-2008 21:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
So I take it the EU department can squeeze ICO's/BT's/Phorm's balls .. timeframe if ICO goes for inaction?

And where's the reg on this??

mark777 27-05-2008 21:38
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34561068)
Just watched it! Thanks mark777. How about somebody that recorded it putting it on YouTube?

Best to all. davethejag
I think we need to be wary about putting things on YouTube. We don't want to upset C5 as they do seem to be on the right side and have promised to come back to the issue.

This has the contact address :-

http://gadgetshow.five.tv/jsp/5gsmain.jsp?lnk=004

Perhaps people could e-mail the editorial address, congratualte them on the piece and suggest a few links for the web page. Also ask them to put it on their YouTube? Tell them it will bring a lot of hits.

I've suggested links to the petition and Inphormationdesk. Their web page needs a tidy anyway.

SelfProtection 27-05-2008 22:08
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34561054)
The gadget show just starting on Five Life (freeview C36) is the episode with the phorm item.

Be careful when viewing on line at the moment there is a current vulnerability in Adobe Flash Player!
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/29386/info

Dephormation 27-05-2008 22:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Slightly OT German snoopers 'tracked thousands of phone calls'

Rene Obermann, Deutsche Telekom's director, who was not in charge at the time, said yesterday he had sent details of the case to state prosecutors, adding that he found the allegations "shattering". "If they are confirmed, the accusations run contrary to our understanding of data protection," he said. "The consequences will be tough if misconduct is established."

Perhaps if BT get a new director, he will do the same wrt to secret trials of Phorm? Oh wait, no. They just appointed a new director didn't they? Ian Livingston.

According to The Reg
"As boss of BT Retail, Ian Livingston presided over the secret and allegedly illegal advertising profiling of tens of thousands of BT broadband customers in 2006 and 2007, in partnership with Phorm. The action has been branded "disgraceful" by MP Don Foster."

mark777 27-05-2008 22:56
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34561114)
Perhaps if BT get a new director, he will do the same wrt to secret trials of Phorm? Oh wait, no. They just appointed a new director didn't they? Ian Livingston.
I think they have got BT Emma lined up if plod comes knocking.

Hank 27-05-2008 23:20
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Congratulations one and all - the EU Commissioner email and associated stories are great.

On a much smaller issue (which is quite a bit less significant!) - re the BT Webwise site hosted in the US where they are capturing UK customer data (illegally according to the data protection act?) - oddly the site now still has got the contact page but it does not work when the submit form button is used. Wonder why...

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php

And also, over on the BT Webwise Beta Forum there was a reply from a BT representative saying that customer data collected on the US server was covered by some US guarantee like the DPA over here... then another forum member has pointed out that Phorm and all associated companies etc are not registered (i.e. not in the same way as firms register for DPA here) - which they should be apparently.

It just gets worse eh?!

(Raises a glass and looks forward to the stock quotes tomorrow)

Well done all.

Hank

PS - I posted a letter to our local Chief Constable today. Based on the answer to the Lord Northesk's question about whom is responsible for RIPA investigations. I've quoted Hansard and the Home Office source. I've reported a crime may have been carried out and the fact that I witnessed Emma from BT, on the news on TV, saying they intercepted communications of their customers without permission or warrant. I will keep you posted on any response received.


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