Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Unfortunately, putting it on a poster doesn't make it true.

You know as well as everyone else that companies are setting such targets, I believe the BBC's are mentioned earlier in this very topic.

The majority of Black people are indeed reasonable, they dont take offence at everything with the word black in it, they dont want special treatment, they dont feel the need to pull down statues. Unfortunately, the minority do, and they are the ones shouting loudest atm, if it continues I dont think it will end well.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I don't think that it is any different, I think it's exactly the same scenario.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Doesn't make him wrong though. ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Doesnt make him right either. :sleep:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I think you're right - in the UK the conversation is less extreme. People aren't taking offence at words with black in, etc. There isn't widespread removal of statues.
In terms of targets I do see monitoring as useful. If 15% of the working population in an organisation's area is BAME and it only employs 5% BAME there is a potential issue, surely?
It's not about special treatment but it could be about having apprenticeships for entry as oppose to 100% graduates. It could be about advertising in places that everyone will see and not relying on the existing employees to recommend a friend.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Statues are being removed or are under attack, Names are being erased from history.

Doesn't mean all of that 15% is available, qualified, or even suitable. Eg sections where women don't go to work, or they don't speak English will straight away reduce that 15%. Should any business/organisation that employs more BAME than in the area be forced to reduce that number? If not, you end up with a situation where they over-represented overall. Same argument goes for women. I should imagine if you looked at small non-white owned businesses, the diversity wouldn't be that great.

There is a huge gulf between entry-level apprenticeship and post-graduate. How is that not asking for special treatment? How many firms never advertise in any form? Fictitious argument, as usual.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ----------

How is it "strawmen".
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No FACTUAL basis for feeling anything like that. They just have to claim it is, and it magically that is proof. In non-white countries, how many people go rambling, camping etc, just for the enjoyment of it? The culture of doing those things, just isn't there in the first place. THEIR problem, not ours.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I think many who have a nice safe & clean job in an office environment (no offence intended to those who do) have a slightly skewed view of some things.

The majority of BAME people looking for work will be nothing like the 'graduates' you're probably used to seeing in and around that sector.

Many probably come from the 'poorer' sectors and, like anyone from a 'working class' background, will be struggling to find anything above minimum wage employment in areas such as factories, hotel work, shops, etc . . in which they, and eastern Europeans, are usually well represented.

If the Gov't and other parties want a higher representation of BAME in roles requiring higher education, they need to make that education available at no cost to the families who can barely afford to live . . . but that then introduces a surge of non BAME into the system too - catch 22 yet again ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

How many are achieving A level standard? Student loans cover the further education costs for them, and everybody else.
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Education to A level is free. Afro-Caribbean is even lower at 3.4%(only Roma/Traveller is lower). So Chinese have a 7.5 to 1 advantage, and White kids have a 3.2 to 1 advantage. Black Africans can manage 6.1%, so it can't be racism in any way.
That's before you get into numbers. 131,947 White is always going to outnumber 10,475 Black.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

1. A Level 7 apprenticeship is equivalent to a Masters. You can get great qualifications on the job that don't cripple you financially but may reduce your ability to go out on mid-week pub crawls!
2. "Do White people have to stop walking etc in the countryside, because BAME bullies claim they are somehow excluded?"
- Why is someone a bully just because they say they feel uncomfortable in the countryside? Am I missing something? And the report doesn't say that anyone shouldn't go into the countryside.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Level 7 apprenticeship

Entry requirements can include at least five GCSEs grades A* – C (9 – 4 on the new grading system), including English and maths subjects, and Level 3 qualifications, including A levels, NVQs, or a BTEC. Some employers will expect or require applicants to have studied subjects relevant to the apprenticeship.


I refer you to this snippet
and then, of course, you have to get the job (apprenticeship) to start with ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

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So where are level 7s excluded? Meaningless example. They are not the typical Apprenticeship level.
Only levels 6 and 7 are degree level and they've only been around 5 years. Not enough time to make that much of an impact.
If you can't (or can't be bothered to) reach A level standard, how likely are you to reach degree level?


So what else is meant to make BAME feel more comfortable, other than ethnic cleansing of the countryside? If the problem is meant to be the presence of White people, then the implied solution is removal of that presence. What else could it imply? It's actually just an excuse to make yet more BOGUS claims of racism.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Apprenticeships are an example of one of the ways I explained that entry to organisations could be made fairer as oppose to your perception of special treatment. If a large organisation has the disparity I mentioned, it's likely due to far lower levels than Masters. I'm sure you can think of many other ways in which recruitment can be made fairer without giving special treatment to any particular groups.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

But there hasn't been enough time to judge anything(it will take 2 or 3 extra years to reach that level), they're not achieving A level standard in the first place, and where is the evidence that employers are treating level 6 and 7 apprenticeships, adversely?:rolleyes: If anything the complaint from employers is that graduates don't have much actual real world, hands-on experience. In that sense Apprenticeships are superior in value, but there will currently only be a couple of years worth of degree level Apprentices.
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Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Not really, numbers (as usual) mean nothing on their own.

If 1% of of the working population in an area is blind, does that mean there is a potential issue because no blind people are employed as drivers ?