Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just for completeness, with Dephormation's cunning new logging feature you see the redirects

Request Name: http://www.bt.com/webwise
Request Name: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php
Location Change: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes - I've been pointing that out for weeks now!

And when you go to the Contact Us page there,
http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
they ask for your BT phone account number, as well as your email address and phone number - most of which they say is "required" - and remember this is going to a NON BT site.

You really couldn't make this up - no one would believe you.

The really good bit was when FASTHOSTS had a major server glitch a few weeks ago. And BT Webwise pages went down with it. Sort of gave the game away.

I've sent off an email to BT again to ask about this FASTHOSTS/THEPLANETCOM stuff, to try and find out which bits of the pretty Webwise diagram are where. I doubt they will want to tell me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I know... :)

But I thought they'd told you it was all going to be on a BT network. :scratch:

It looks like its still all over the shop, and even risks putting UID/IP data in the hands of the people who said they wouldn't have access to your IP because it was all within the BT network (and Phorm consider an IP is PII*). Doesn't look ready for an imminent trial. At least, not a technical trial.

And the Phorm.com domain seems to have been recently distanced from the webwise.bt.com domain (though strangely not OIX).

Yuk.


* paradoxically its not as personally identifiable as a unique User Identifier

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It's good to see they've used ThePlanet.com, over on BadPhorm ilago points out that ThePlanet Internet Services, Inc. is listed as one of the top 10 phishing site host networks. http://www.phishtank.com/stats/2008/04/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As I was trying to point out before my router blocked my message (it was being redirected through a Phorm Site outward bound!)
I am at the moment using a VPN Service to avoid BT redirects!


If the "Phorm" test is performed in this way; through an OIX web site, it may be possible to not use a cookie but, there will be NO way that the IP address of the Account Holder would not be known!

The fact that the redirect is/was a "direct" connection to an unknown & uncontrolled foreign website, would give rise to a very strong case of not compliance with D.P.A Rules!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hang on a mo, what about DPA, no data being processed outside the EU????

opt-in / out being done outside EU ????

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It may just be a case of feeding out the rope gradually until we think BT have enough to strangle themselves with and hopefully, Phorm with them. It really is getting quite interesting.

I'm afraid I haven't a clue about all this technical IP stuff. So I hope some other BT customers are better clued up than me.

I've got that Dephormation addon but haven't a clue what all the logs mean. But I will gladly do whatever Pete tells me to and make logs available.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It seems that BT is preparing to pimp, which begs a question. (Quite a few in fact:))

Are any BT users prepared to opt in and out in order to help the tech bods with a technical analysis?

I wouldn't mind betting that frequent anti-phorm posters using BT as an ISP do not get an invite into the BT trial. They are probably identified by BT.

Perhaps some lurkers might be prepared to do this?

Perhaps it would be useful for the tech/legal bods to suggest what might be useful to record e.g.
what site you wanted when the invitation pops up?
what was the URL of the invite etc?
screen shots etc.

Should we build a check list?

Also, people with information may prefer to PM a tech bod with it (just to worry BT!), rather than post here. Perhaps the tech bods might like to confirm who would like to receive such information?

Time to get prepared for the storm.

EDIT : I see portly giraffe is logged in. Perhaps you might be prepared to host a checklist for willing people who are offered the trial on inphormationdesk?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There you go - scaremongering again. It's people like you who are holding the internet back. ;) :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No. No. It can't be true.

It is a hoax. I'm not going to be taken in. Its a hoax. <fingers in ears>. LALALALALALA. ITS ALL A HOAX. I'm not fooled.

Because it simply can't be true.

No one trusted with operating a national network could possibly be this stupid. :doh:

Yet, apparently they are.

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Are those ip addresses that resolve to ThePlanet.com in the US and Fasthosts here in the UK the locations of the servers to store the profiled data?

If the above is correct, it looks like Richard Clayton may not have been given the full facts again.
If so then the detail at para 71 in the Phorm explanatory document is wrong?

71. The Channel Server exists within each ISP....
72. Reason for not centralising the Channel server is because they were concerned about EU regulations regarding moving of personal data outside Europe

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i know i am scaremongering, good here isn't it :angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Absolutely - if the experts here can pool their knowledge I'd be delighted to do just that.

Also, I'd quite like to put together a graphic of a world map with the various BT, Phorm and OIX servers shown and may come back for advice soon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

what we really need is a member of the old god squad who is good with miracles

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

see attached file, (think i did it right)

its a bt advert i have just seen, offering £50 cashback for signing up to bt broadband, must be having trouble with number of victims, sorry customers

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Brilliant - thanks Portly :tu:

On a general note, it seems to me that the trials are multi-faceted. It's not just about testing the technology or 'user experience' or even take up rates.

They seriously seem to be expecting to do all this and then turn around to the authorities and ask "was that legal?", "shall we have another go with something a bit different?"

I didn't think the law worked like that. If I went on the nick at Tesco's and pinched £100 worth, I don't think I would be allowed to walk away after telling them I will only try for £50 next time.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

look at http://www.oix.com/about/introducing/OIX.html

this explains what the channel servers are and it would seem they are not controlled by BT or Phorm but seperate companies who are good at setting up the targeting of the adverts, or is it the servers are run by phorm and the third parties pay phorrm to let them setup the queries then the third party makes money by selling access to the queries they have written. it's not terribly clear,

where alex when you need him

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That needs clarification... another set of lies?


Amazing...

webwise provides anti-phishing, yet when you visit www.bt.com/webwise you're being sent to the states to opt in/out. And this is hosted by ThePlanet Internet Services, Inc. listed as one of the top 10 phishing site host networks. http://www.phishtank.com/stats/2008/04/

classic.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think it is really important that preparations for the trial are made. Only
10,000 people are required. BT are likely to have identified as many anti-
phormites as they can and I'm sure they will not be invited to take part.

It will not take very long for them to recruit 10,000 people, even if only
offered on one exchange. We may only get a small chance to get a couple of
sympathisers into the trial. We need to agree a checklist for these people so
that if they are non-technical, they can still collect as much information as
possible.

Everything we have done to date has been based upon what they have done in the past. It's our first chance to catch them at it.

Checklist - please add and adapt. This is just a starting point.

I realise people might not be willing to answer all these questions, but please
make a note of them anyway, even if you do not wish to pass the information on.

1) What page were you expecting when the invitation popped up? Was it your
home-page, if so, could you give the URL of your home page? Did it pop up as
soon as you opened your browser?

2) Did the invitation page have a URL? If so, what was it? You may be able to
get a URL for a page by right clicking on it and selecting 'properties'. Make a
note of it.

3) Please take a screen dump of the invitation page (CTL-Print Screen).
Paste it into a word (or wordpad or ??? document)

4) Please follow any links to further information and paste screen dumps into
the word document. If there is a URL, please note it.

5) Please follow any other links and do the same.

6) Please note your IP number and host by following this link

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/mi...?do=connection

Add this screen dump to your word document.

7) In windows, go to start menu and select Run. Enter cmd in the box. Click OK.
You should have a black window pop up. Type in :-

tracert bbc.co.uk

and press enter. You will see rows of data appear.

Highlight the rows with you mouse and press enter. Copy the contents of the
clipboard into your word document.

8) Go back to the trial invitation and opt-in (if you are willing).

9) Repeat step (7).

10) Browse a few pages. Visit cable forum!

11) Repeat step (7). Save your word document.

12) Register on cable forum and PM one of the following users to let them know you are in the trial and have information about the sign-up process.



This will benefit from lots of suggestions and perhaps the mods could act as a
clearing house for the data? Tech bods willing to analyse and follow up should make themselves known.

Whatever happens, people should be informed that much of this data is personal and they need to think before they pass it on.

Suggestions ?

EDIT : As an afterthought, if a BT user can explain how to renew their IP using the BT supplied equipment, many of the privacy issues are reduced, although IP at a given time is still recorded. (We are not Phorm!)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good idea I have copied this to post it on ISPreview to help get it to more people might get a few on there who will be wiling to do thses.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

for good measure, did anyone get some wireshark captures, as a baseline ,before, during, and after this maintenance?
http://www.wireshark.org/

what shows up on those redirects there btw , im not good with WS diagnostics but it seems (web)wise to use/collect them for several sessions, non the less, for any that do fully understand the wire....later.

perhaps even put them up onthe http://wiki.wireshark.org/SampleCaptures
wiki for others to look at and point for comments here.

http://search.virginmedia.com/result...shark+howto&cr=

---------- Post added at 02:01 ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 ----------

more to the point, it's going outside the UK after giving the impression that its on and in the official internal UK BT network.

and remember they said it would stay there inside that internal BT network and never leave, more criminal lies......?

any data going/being exported outside the Uk, is NOT FULLY covered by the data protection act or the UK LAW, but mearly a contract, IF YOUR LUCKY, that BT have put in place to somewhat protect your personal data rights......

and suprise, suprise, it's not going to an EU country ,so the EU DP does not apply directly eather, but it is going to the US were the US Govt just love to peak and pop your data into their little database right alongside the Uk CCTV footage perhaps...

SERIOUSLY YOU BT customers CANT LET THAT GO BY almost UNNOTICED OR UNREPORTED......(other than here).

this BT exporting your data outside the UK in such a cavaler mannor (and perhaps criminal, given they give the impression they NEED this information and dont tell you its not and official BT run server or its going outside the internal BT network, never mind the Uk).

its a classic Phishing attack infact, report it NOW, but to who ? ,
BT that facilitate this attack, or Phorm that perpetrate the crime, not likely...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Looking at the IP addresses of the various domains, I would conclude that BT are using the long bank holiday weekend to rehost the Phorm service at Gyron Internet in London E14 on 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32 with backup for the most service-critical function (OIX) at Fasthosts on 88.208.250.85.

Any comments?

It certainly suggests that substantial parts of any Phorm system implemented by BT would not be hosted directly by BT though of course this may be consistent with the published design saved in a message a few thousand back from here.

Websites on one Gyron Internet server at 89.145.112.31:
blog.phorm.com
blog.webwise.com

Websites on two Gyron Internet servers at 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32:
www.121media.com
www.openinternetalliance.com
www.openinternetalliance.net
www.openinternetalliance.org
www.phorm.com
www.webwise.com
www.webwise.net
www.webwise.org
www.youcanoptout.com
www.youcanoptout.net
www.youcanoptout.org

Websites which now appear to be on two Gyron Internet servers at 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32 and one Fasthost server at 88.208.250.85:
www.oix.com
www.oix.net
(www.oix.org is already taken by a non-Phorm company)
www.openinternetexchange.com
www.openinternetexchange.net
www.openinternetexchange.org

Remaining at Fasthosts in Gloucester UK:
webwise.bt.com - maybe to be abandoned?
www.tecreports.co.uk - unrelated to Phorm

Remaining at ThePlanet.com in Houston TX:
www.webwise.bt.com
youcanoptin.com
youcanoptin.net
youcanoptin.org

Please correct this if I've misinterpreted anything.

It's strange that the youcanoptin domains have been left in the US while the youcanoptout domains have been moved to what appears to be the production site. Maybe the ICO should give a view?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i bet many in the house of lords has a view or two about running a Uk based business collecting 70+% of the Uk BB users and exporting it in such as way as to hide the fact you "apt-in" (however than may be) you have your personal data directly stored in the/a US database, its set up exactly that way OP OC.

nothing random or mistaken there ,thats for sure... a clear violation of trust, or something far more sinister to recoop some of the lost cash their loosing on the Uk markets.

perhaps selling it as a side line to the highest bidders world wide....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If someone is willing to put together the technical IP stuff I am quite willing to turn it into an ICO complaint as a BT customer- based largely on the current BT Webwise Contact Us page.

I can handle the actual ICO complaint, but I need someone to put together the "technical" side of the complaint using that IP data.

Something along the lines of "when I go to my ISP page BT Webwise, to find out more about their Webwise service I am asked to fill out a Contact Form, and provide the following data...... I have been investigating the location of these pages and it turns out that.... (technical IP data).

Obviously some of these locations are outside the BT network, and some appear to be outside the UK. Also they do not appear to be under the control of BT Retail, who are responsible for my ISP. I am unaware of having been asked to agree to any changed privacy policy by my ISP since these pages became live. The BT privacy policy currently reads as follows....

I believe that my personal data is not being handled according the requirements of the DPA......"
copy to ICO and copy to BT Retail legal department?

Any further action presumably has to wait until someone has actually got onto Webwise trial.

I am also willing to put a single post, carefully worded to try and catch a few BT phish over on Beta forums who might be willing to help with the Webwise trial - same post on each of the help/support forums. I've done something similar before and I think it is time to do it again - there are about a dozen or so forums I could put a post into. Again all I need is a contact point for any interested BT customers to go to - not me because of other commitments coming up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You think that BT might not also be looking at who the lurkers are? I bet they don't get an invite either!

On your point about a checklist... good idea. There ARE BT customers who are NOT lurking or posting here and are NOT posting on the BT forum who are waiting to receive the "Sacrifice Yourself To Our Webspy Cause" special page and they have my phone number :) They are not family, not in my home town and I never call them from a land line at my house so no hope of BT black-listing them from the trial and one can only hope they are presented with an interception of their browsing to see the "Special Page"....

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Remember the Phorm supplied DPI equipment inside the ISP is designed to mis-route IP addresses. So even if a DNS lookup for www.webwise.net gives an IP address that is hosted in some far away land, it doesn't help us as customer because of the DPI equipment we are never going to be sure whether our data is being re-routed to a fake www.webwise.net server inside the ISP or out to one far, far away.

For some reason, a little corner of my brain is screaming, Phorm is using sleight-of-hand, you are being conned by your ISP.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It would be very handy if Firefox 2 users installed the prerelease version of Dephormation to capture a log of redirects during the sign up process.

Download from here;
http://www.dephormation.org.uk/prere...phormation.xpi
(nb right click, save as, drag into Firefox to install)

I feel like I'm briefing Christians being thrown to the lions. Here's a checklist. Watch out for the one with sharper teeth. Don't carry a ham sandwich in your pocket. Don't be the slowest runner etc.

PS; you need to be sure you only enable the log file output feature during sign up (don't run with the 'disable Phorm'/'randomise Phorm UID' features on, for obvious reasons ;) ).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yeah, u r right there!

I'm like a little lamb going to slaughter :cry: :cry: :cry:

Hank :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It's anybody's guess whether BT will exclude anti-phormites or not. It's a sensible thing to do, but they don't always appear to do the sensible thing.

I believe BT have about 3 million users, so to sign up 10,000 is 1 in 300 of the customer base. If they do it on a single exchange and assuming the anti-phormites are randomly spread amongst the user base, the odds are the same.

In an ideal world, they would have to ask 300 people to get 1 to sign up, but that probably won't be the case:(. The chances are we won't be able to get anyone inside the trial unfortunately. I hope i'm wrong.

One obvious thing to do to increase the chances would be to get online early in the morning of the first day of the trial. Try requesting a new IP etc.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe it is time to contact them again and point out they are asking for details which are not given as optional that will idnetify you.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just noticed that the answer to the remaining unanswered question is now in...

On 24th April the Earl of Northesk asked Her Majesty's Government a question which was due for answer by 8th May and was answered on 22nd May:

"Which law enforcement agency, Department or other statutory body has responsibility for investigating and prosecuting possible criminal breaches of (a) the Data Protection Act 1998, (b) the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, and (c) the Computer Misuse Act 1990." [HO HL3267]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord West of Spithead) answers:

(a) Investigation of breaches of RIPA would be investigated by the police or other relevant law enforcement agency; any subsequent prosecution would be taken forward by the CPS or other relevant prosecuting agency.

(b) The Information Commissioner is an independent body created by statute with responsibilities for investigating complaints made to him under the Data Protection Act 1998. Proceedings for offences in England and Wales can be instituted by the commissioner or by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions. In Northern Ireland, offences would be instituted by the commissioner or by or with the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland. In Scotland, potential breaches investigated by the commissioner are prosecuted by the procurator fiscal.

(c) Under normal circumstances, the police would investigate any breaches of the Computer Misuse Act, and any subsequent prosecution would be handled by the Crown Prosecution Service. The CPS has a number of high tech crime prosecutors who are trained to prosecute offences contrary to the Computer Misuse Act.



I think a letter to my local Chief Constable might be necessary. I'm sure that Emma form BT said on TV they had intercepted the communication of a number of customers in 2006 and 2007... and that's should be illegal and therefore a crime has possibly taken place and someone should be investigating.

Can anyone remind us, where the evidence of the admissions can be found on the internet and the date that they took place? Might pop that titbit of info in the letter :)

Hank

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

Hang on a minute, whom are the he refers to? Still not nailing down the answer to the question really!

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.channel4.com/player/v2/pl...p?showId=11622 BT iplayer on the BT illegal act

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He's got his A's and B's mixed up too hasn't he. What hope is there.......

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

Thanks :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have read plenty of smoke, mirrors and spin from BT and Phorm how customers will welcome Webwise. I just came across this today and I have not seen it referenced on this board before,

http://www.computeractive.co.uk/comp...orm-acceptable


Its over a week old but clearly this survey did not concur with BT's spinning.

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

Anybody explain this? Significant?
Click on 'Special Conditions'
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...HRM#PriceChart

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It is interesting to see that nearly three quarters of respondents in the survey had heard of Phorm/Webwise and equated it with spyware.

Even better is that more than half of the respondents would leave their ISP if they introduced Phorm - should give the bean counters something to think about.

Keeping the issue in the public eye and spreading the word seems to be doing the trick.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The first was posted when the vote on ISPreview was first completed pages back but it is good to see it made it into the computer side of things more places saying the majoity say no helps..

As for share insider dealings ot take over not sure hadn't heard of that one before..

Maybe google bidding to shut them down now I would buy google shares to help them do that :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yay - I've finally got BT to release me from my contract! Unfortunately it wasn't specifically because of the Phorm T&C changes but this morning I received an email saying that they're discontinuing the BT OpenZone access that I got included with my account and 'replacing' it with BT FON instead. Aside from the fact that this requires you to share your home bandwith it also means that you can't roam on partner networks like 'The Cloud'. I complained to customer services, saying that this meant that I now couldn't use the wireless access from my usual haunts and (after a bit of wriggling) they finally agreed to give me a MAC.

Maybe some other trapped BT customers can get out the same way?

Does anyone have any good ADSL recommendations? If VM drop Phorm then I might even try them again.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

BeThere internet

didnt see any complains about it, ill go for it once the contract expires

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Explain what?

Under 'Special Conditions' on the main page it says 'NONE'
If you click on 'Special Conditions' it looks as if it provides a run down of possible entries for this.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

try Zen ineternet, got one of their lines very good

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I know a few of the lads posting over on the BT forum have many times questioned the claims by BT that their research told them we all wanted more relevant ads.

This research (link below) suggests this is a load of carp.

Web users 'getting more selfish'

May not be 100% relevant, but interesting, IMHO.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe it's time this research was provided. Questions and answers.

It is a load of carp... I never click on banner ads.
If I want to buy something online I will search for the product specifically or go directly to a relevant site rather than aimlessly wonder the net waiting for a 'suitable ad' to pop up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Don't go VM ADSL all my friends are complaing it grinds to almost dialup speeds in the evening and carries a 12 month contract go ADSL where yuo contract is no longer than 3 months.
I am with Aquiss and todate they have been great..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

zen is a 1 month contract but you do pay a setup fee (£40) , http://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/S_Business.aspx

service for setup was brilliant

peter

Re: Making a complaint to the Police
 

I have just sent in a complaint to my local Police re BT's illegal trials.

Anyone else who has or intends to complain to the police should contact the IPCC:

----------------------------

We undertake to investigate all complaints swiftly and fairly, and provide you the results of our investigation.

If your complaint relates to the conduct of a member of our staff and you are dissatisfied with the outcome of our investigation, you can contact the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

The IPCC, a statutory body, may manage an investigation relating to the conduct of our staff or, in some cases, conduct the enquiry themselves.

For more information, visit www.ipcc.gov.uk or write to:

The Independent Police Complaints Commission
90 High Holborn
London
WC1V 6BH.

Phone: 08453 002 002 (local rate)
Fax: 020 7404 0430
E-mail: enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you have a MAC key there is no setup fee the only ones who would pay an activation fee are those returning to IP stream from LLU ISP or Cable new home move. Migration from IPstream to IPstream is free with a MAC key..

Re: Making a complaint to the Police
 

Just be careful, there are two routes a complaint can take. The police will contact you and ask if you will allow them to deal with the complaint locally or send it directly to the IPCC. Be warned, if you allow them to deal with it locally there is no appeal process and it is likely they will do nothing of any worth.

They will use smooth words to try and persuade you that they will deal with the complaint objectively but if you really want a solution you must insist on it going directly to the IPCC.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hello,
As you can see I'm a new subscriber to this forum, but I have read all the posts and I joined to give my moral support in the fight against Phorm and its like.I'm not even a VM customer but I have found this thread has the most comprehensive coverage of Webwise/ Phorm issues.

I'm perhaps typical of an ordinary customer, not particularly au fait with the technical side of things but can do the basics to enable me to find the information which interests me on the internet. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to do this. I try to take all the reasonable steps to safeguard my privacy and security against all the malware out there but I never imagined that would include the service provider (BT) to whom I pay a not inconsiderable sum each month.

I've often thought I'm paying over the odds staying with BT but I've had good service up to recently with only the odd interruption to my service and help when needed, although understanding Indian accents can be challenging at times :)

However in the last year I've began to have doubts about that service since I've had a couple of instance where BT have been less than honest with me including increasing my direct debit without my permission and then lying to me by saying I had agreed to it.

One thing though, I do not want to pay them to sell my details to another company, one which had its beginnings in using spyware. I part with my money for them to supply me with internet access and that's it.

I'm just surprised that BT could ever imagine that their secret trials would be forever "secret" and it seems to me that the way they have behaved in recent weeks gives me the impression that they mean to continue using Phorm even though they are aware of possible legal problems ahead and that there is a sizeable minority of their customers are very disgruntled - to say the least.

Fortunately for me my contract with BT expires early in June and I have already applied for my MAC and received it. In one way I'll be sorry to leave because as stated above, I have had pretty good service - until recently. I do feel however they have let me down and in a way betrayed the trust between myself and the company I paid for a service.

I have a question too, before I leave BT what should I do if in the unlikely event I am invited to participate in the Webwise trial. I understand from previous posts that even if I opt out, far from my details staying within the BT network they might actually pass through some site in the US notorious for hosting phishing adware. How is this going to affect my internet use. It's almost like a Catch 22 situation, opt in and Phorm get all your personal details opt out and Phorm still get all your details. Or is this too simplistic?

Anyway keep up the good work, I know I'm just a customer and there are aspects of this for website owners that are probably just as, if not more, important but even as a lone individual I think BT are abusing their position.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: ImaJack if you are asked to take part you can then once it is over migrate to another ISP like Aquiss, Zen or Fast.co.uk who are all not going to take part in phorm phenomina.. They like to treat customers with respect...

I would urge you not to put any details on the other website and infact complain to BT about the rewuest for identifiable information.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi ImaJack, welcome to the forums.

I haven't been here long myself but I have been a VM customer for over 12 yrs.
Like yourself, I read all the posts and I joined to give my moral support in the fight against Phorm.

I just wish there were hundreds more that would post to show support whether they be BT, VM or CPW customers.
I feel there is still a lot of apathy towards Phorm amongst the majority of customers (either because they still haven't heard of webwise or they think of it simply as ads that can be turned off). I just hope I am proven wrong when the time is right.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've asked BT repeatedly for it. They don't seem to want to publish it but haven't ruled out doing so in the future. I doubt it will ever see the light of day.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In Phorm’s original description, their system did indeed mirror the web traffic of all users. We were later told that the system had been modified, so that only the web traffic of those users who had opted-in would be copied and processed. It seems this was done to reduce the chance of legal challenge. However, given the inability of the government, police and the Information Commissioner’s Office to take action against BT over their covert trials, it’s difficult to know whether Phorm feel they are constrained by much of the interception and data protection legislation.

Ideally, you’d like to decline to take part in the trial. Unfortunately, as you say, BT are making you an offer you can’t refuse. If a trial starts in your area, you’ll be testing at least some part of the system designed and built by Phorm. The three options are:

1. Choose to opt in at the invitation page. You’ll be testing most of the system. A Phorm-controlled computer, the Channel Server, will receive a stream of data consisting of your search terms and a good proportion of the web page addresses for the pages you look at. This could conceivably be used to reconstruct a large part of your web browsing. I would not recommend this option.
2. Choose to opt out at the invitation page. You’ll be testing the part that monitors, copies and fakes cookies. You’ll be testing the part that prevents your browsing details from being passed on.
3. Choose to block cookies from webwise.net. You’ll be testing the part designed to detect this and prevent never-ending loops. This is covered in the latest update by Richard Clayton to his technical description of the Phorm system, when Phorm suddenly remembered how this part of their system works. Again, you’ll be testing the part that prevents your browsing details from being passed on.

Given that we finally know how the blocking of webwise.net cookies will be detected, I would recommend option three as the least worst. There had been a risk that option three would have had a significant impact on your browsing experience, but now we know this shouldn’t be the case.

BT have promised a system that will allow a subscriber to completely remove their broadband connection from the Phorm system, but this will be available only after the trials. If a trial causes users significant problems, the subscriber will not be able to withdraw from it. Also, there’s a chance that this option will never be made available. For this reason, I recommend all BT customers do as you’re doing, by moving to a new ISP as soon as is practical.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This would sort of mean they are still not putting the servers inside BT so all who either sopt in or out are still doing this outside their ISPs network opening them up to more privacy invasion since BT will not have any control or access to these servers.

Might also be worth checking these again think Phorm are manipulating NS to hide locations.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

[quote]
Just to check, you weren't asked to leave the BadPhorm forums were you over the crunchgate affair, that was the best post I've ever seen. BadPhorm is a boreing place without your posts.

If it was up to me I'd say get the hell back on BadPhorm, we've got some dirty scoundrels that need rooting out.
[EoQ]

No I wasn't asked to leave.. If I was I'd probably still be there quietly defying :D

Re: the crunchgate affair, yes it was me and I kinda guess that everyone else knows it was me. I signed the message as 'BadPhorm' by mistake, I left off the 'ula', a slip up. I've got no problems with calling Kunt Ertugrul and Shatis Scleparis criminals, I don't give a ph~ck about slandering or libeling those c~nts. However they will never sue 'anyone' for libel for two reasons mainly.
1) They are criminals so by default it isn't libel.
2) They wouldn't pursue me in court because it would bring too much attention to their sneaking around in the murky sh~t they are floating in, that is Phorm/121Media sh~t.

Coming back to why I left Badphorm.co.uk (left as in not daily posting) I see this anti-phorm project as two distinct sub-projects, for me.

1) The ongoing public debate and organising a wider awareness of the threat Phorm (and their **** ISP partners) present to free British people through profiling and sifting over personal data.

2) My contribution effort as I see it, is to organise and spread information about how people can defend themselves through the use of encryption technology. I'm not talking about some grand plan to turn everyone into a techie with a complete understanding of cyberspace self-defense, but a basic level of awareness of the tools and techniques available.

I was planning on compiling a Linux Live-CD similar to Knoppix but aimed at the Phormoid privacy problem... And calling it something like "Phormonix"



The problem with sub-project no.1 with regard to posting on a place like BadPhorm is that I tend to rub people up the wrong way, they don't seem to get my sardonic brand of satire. Yes I am quite rude and over the top and this is likely to upset some of the other posters, my guess is that most people like to live in a cordial, friendly none abrasive environment all speaking polite parliamentary language. (and all this time Phormscum are laughing their b~llocks off at the quaint opposition). I say we should round the ph~ckers up with pitch forks then hang them upside down by their testicles (but hey I'm a progressive liberal). But seriously I feel I will not be able to tame my vociferous minority voice without continually falling foul of Jim's AUP.

I am obviously in the top league table for number of posts deleted or mod'd and I'm quite happy I was instrumental in getting the Phorm shill and lameduck troll 'Hamster Wheel' K/B dispatched from BadPhorm. Anyhow I think it might be best to setup my own phpBB and rant and rave over there. You've got my webaddress so keep checking! LOL

Btw I've posted this to CF forum and BadPhorm for fun but withheld your nim hope that hasn't set the cat amongst the pigeons for you.

regards
BadPhorm'ula

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Checked againt for www.webwise.bt.com, now on 207.44.186.90 with:

openinternetalliance.net
www.121media.com
www.phorm.com
www.webwise.bt.com
www.webwise.com
www.youcanoptin.com
youcanoptin.org
youcanoptout.net

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So they are now resolving to the US again:

(Asked whois.arin.net:43 about +207.44.186.90)

OrgName: ThePlanet.com Internet Services Inc.
OrgID: TPCM
Address: 315 Capitol
Address: Suite 205
City: Houston
StateProv: TX
PostalCode: 77002
Country: US
ReferralServer: rwhois: //rwhois.theplanet.com: 4321
NetRange: 207.44.128.0 - 207.44.255.255
CIDR: 207.44.128.0/17
OriginAS: AS13749 AS13884 AS21844 AS30315
OriginAS: AS36420
NetName: NETBLK-THEPLANET-BLK-EV1-9
NetHandle: NET-207-44-128-0-1
Parent: NET-207-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.EV1SERVERS.NET
NameServer: NS2.EV1SERVERS.NET

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just shows you that you cannot trust this man or company an inch.. if they do place servers insice the ISP the informatin willwing its way to america then to the highest bidder.. adverts bah that is the smoke screen that the daft ISPs hace fallen for hook line and sinker sad to say thye seem to have sat on their brains and killed them..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What are you using to get the IP addresses? My DNS lookup says (for example) that www.webwise.com is still on Gyron in London E14 at 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32.

I am using the tools at:
http://cgibin.erols.com/ziring/cgi-bin/nsgate/gate.pl

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is what I get:

And if I check all 3 IPs I get the following:

So it seems the www.webwise.bt.com is in fact in the US and all the rest are controlled by Phorm in the UK (registered to Phorm in the UK).

Of course this means the www.webwise.bt.com is subject to US Law and can have all the logs subpoenaed. It would be advisable not enter any information onto that website. It also seems it should be classed as illegal under Data Protection Act which disallows the exporting of personal data outside the EU.

Anyone brought this to the attention of ICO yet? I notice there is at least 1 form on there which requires you to enter sensitive personal data:

http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php

So this would indeed appear to be in direct breach of the DPA. In theory if ThePlanet have any DPI kit in their data centre (which I believe although I could be wrong, is required under US anti terrorist initiatives) they could in essence get all the details you enter on that form. I know there is a degree of logging in the US similar to data retention laws in the EU, but I don't know to what extent so I can't give any informed comments on it. I will however try to find out.

One thing I do know however, is there are no rights afforded under the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution for any personal data given to third parties (I covered this just the other day on a paper I wrote about the Patriot Act Sunset Clauses), so in essence if ThePlanet were to use any of the data going through their networks, I don't think BT would have any recourse (or the public).

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I am in the process of cotacting ICO with reference particularly to the BT Webwise Contact Us page, and the trace information above will be very helpful. I will copy the ICO complaint to the BT legal department.

Interesting that the page has the BT logo in the same place as it is on bt.com homepage, and the links at the bottom are just the same as on the genuine BT page, and the link to contact.php says "contact BT" but contains NO warnings that you just stepped out of the EU privacy protection zone. It's a complete utter con - and what's more - they know, and they know that we know - because I asked them about it AGES ago, and they even put up mirror BT Webwise pages on bt.com in response to my complaint about not wanting to visit FASTHOSTS or US hosted pages - but they didn't create any warnings.
Add to this the fact that BT Retail's own ISP pages currently offer NO customer route to information about BT Webwise, and it looks pretty pathetic - their BTYahoo! help returns zero hits for "webwise", and the bt.com search pages return one hit for "webwise" with a broken link (because they've just changed all the webwise pages to php but not told the bt.com search engine which still links to index.html rather than index.php so returning an error page). And they talk about informed consent!

I've also made reference to it in my original letter to BT Retail Legal department but not with all that trace info as the letter went in over a week ago.

I've also asked Emma Sanderson if she could just fill in the blanks with regard to which coloured boxes on the BT Webwise network diagram relate to which IP addresses, at which location, in which country, and under whose control, and in partiucular, which of the coloured boxes are FASTHOSTS and which are THEPLANET.COM and which are BT.

I'm expecting at least a reply from ICO.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good job, did you read the paragraph I added to the end of my previous post. I added it after you quoted it so I just want to make sure you have seen it.

Actually, saying that, even if personal data given to third parties was protected under the constitution, I can't see even that would help a non US citizen, since the constitution would not apply afaik.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

it appears 4 people so far have submitted that the
http://www.webwise.bt.com
is not a Phish , but it seems they may not know about the background as it related to Phorm and BT or the statement nothing personal goes outside the internal BT network etc.

perhaps it needs explaining to them and others so as to make it clear ,as it stands currently it is ....!
http://www.phishtank.com/phish_detai...hish_id=450504

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And don't forget Gyron, who now appear to be the main hosting provider for Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

just posted a link over on the BT forums back to this information and added some of the information about the webwise opt-in pages hosted in US

http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...D=23149&#23149

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Is it beneficial for multiple complaints to be sent to the ICO regarding the direct breach of the DPA with 'webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php' or is it better to just have one concise complaint?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.phishtank.com/phish_detai...hish_id=450834

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

iv marked that
http://www.phishtank.com/phish_detai...hish_id=450834
as a phish, you can do the same for the original one too,
http://www.phishtank.com/phish_detai...hish_id=450504
the more it gets the more it becomes confirmed ( it appears 4 are enough to get it listed as "is not a phish").

although there does not seem to be a way to add information to the page explaining why we know it to be the case.....!
or that it can be classed as the new form of Phishing, that being the intra-ISP assisted Phishing.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Verified.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I joined and verified it as phishing

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:47 ----------

I have sent an email to Emma Sanderson which I hope will answer a few questions if I get a reply it will depend on if I have permission to copy and paste the email or just summerize it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I became aware of Phorm/Webwise in the middle of March, and I've only spoken to friends and family. Apart from my son who said he would look into it (just to keep me quiet I think:)) no one knew anything about them and to be honest they just thought it was more adware and could be blocked/ignored. I suppose a court case or something similar might stir up the general public but I do think slowly and surely opposition is growing against Webwise.

Thank you Phormic Acid for your clear and concise explanation about BTs trial and opt in/out system. I hope and think I won't be affected, if all goes well I shall be gone from BT in about 2/3 weeks. I have printed your post for reference - just in case.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Voted this is a phishing site.

What would be interesting is if for example BT pulled out of the whole phorm thing what would phorm do with the information they have collected via that site :erm:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sell it to the highest bidder ofcourse

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Joined and Confirmed

;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All

I have added a lot of information on Webwise / Phorm on my forum, keep up the fight. ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How about reporting it in the IE7 Phishing filter.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've just reported www.webwise.bt.com to google via the help menu in firefox as well.


Edit: Rmoved link as seems its not valid.

To report site via firefox go to www.webwise.bt.com & then use> Help> Report website & job done.

Have also Reported via IE web filter tools> phishing filter>report this website (go to www.webwise.bt.com 1st)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Done

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep the link worked - done that too

:D

EDIT: Only if using Firefox Browser

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just about to report here as well :D

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/report_url

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

taken from the website
-------------
Well they say it isnt phishing Verified: Is NOT a phish Next unverified phish >
As verified by stuartgrant JustaPerson buaya phish*****er
-----------------------------------

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

it seems pritty clear that their objective is to collect as much of this personal data from all the UK USPs involved at some point into a company owned US based database.

so if they do manage this ISP Phishing trip, they will have pulled off the worlds largest and potentially lucrative Phishing database with 70% plus of the whole UK Broadband membership inside it, to sell to other partys for whatever purpose these people chose to make of the data.

lets be clear on this, even a database with just 50% of the Uk Broadband usebase personal information inside, is werth a hell of a lot of money to a single company looking to profit from it on the future.

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

the blog is interesting
http://www.phishtank.com/blog/
"
PhishTank April ‘08 stats. Learn to protect yourself, your company.

posted by Allison on May 5th, 2008 in PhishTank

We just posted PhishTank statistics for April 2008. No major surprises: The United States is, for the thirteenth straight month, hosting more phishes than any other country...
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

added this over on bt forums, will not hold my breath waiting for a reply, but expect my post to be moderated / deleted

I AM STILL WAITING FOR A REPLY MARK W,

mark w,

can you confirm if the webwise helpdesk are replying to non bt email address requests?

as i have sent several emails from my private account requesting information regarding webmasters rights etc and not had a single reply

strange this

as no way do i want phorm pimping my data but i want to allow google and others in

peter

can you also confirm if the webwise helpdesk at bt dot webwise dot help dot desk at bt dot com is run by BT staff or phorm staff ,seeing as the virtually all the main webwise websites seem to be outside of the BT core network and hosted on IP addresses where phorm websites are hosted

regards
peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi folks,

Updated my Peer Guardian 2 profiles earlier, and I was going to report www.webwise.bt.com through firefox. when I attempted to connect PG2 started going bonkers and the several attempts to connect to that BT page were all listed as Phorm at the destination 207.44.186.90

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oops my hand slipped on Ctrl-S whilst I was on the BT Forum & the article & page is now somewhere on my hard drive! http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/im...lies/dunce.gif
:dunce:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

the URL works fine in advanced browser (that uses IE as its engine)...

to help them understand i entered this as the reason for listing it as a Phish.

"this Phorm run and administered US based webpage is part of the new breed of so called Intra-ISP assisted Phishing sites.
see:
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...-page-478.html
for more information."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

would i be right in thinking,

as in the trials when phorm had no contract with BT, phorm still has no contract as BT etc have not commited to roll out this product and phorm are collecting PII on the www.webwise.bt.com/ website?

my understanding is that BT etc, have commited to a trial not full roll out unless the trials are deemed a sucess, so what is the legal position?

is this why the kit is not on the BT network?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Surely running any of the Trials through the BT Network & effectively performing the Trial(s) would automatically make them responsible for properly securing their Own Customers Data as the DPA currently stands!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think I'll steer clear of the US Constitution if you don't mind and just stick to good old Magna Carta ;-)

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:23 ----------

That page purports to be a BT page. It bears the BT logo. It uses the BT page design and layout. It has identical links in the footer. It is the site that BT are sending customers to when they want information about webwise.

And of course it is identical to the BT hosted mirror BT Webwise site they put up when I asked them to at
http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...=CON-WEBWISE-I

A good question from a non BT enquirer could be to innocently ask what is the difference between
www.webwise.bt.com
and
http://www.productsandservices.bt.co...=CON-WEBWISE-I

and why the Contact page on the BT mirror leads to a different destination to the Contact Page on the www.webwise.bt.com site even though they are otherwise identical

Contact Us link on webwise.bt.com - goes to webwise.bt.com/contactus.php which is a data collection form with only one option

Contact Us link on BT Webwise mirror site - goes to
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/contactus
which is a quite different page offering a variety of normal BT departments for contact.

The data collection page asks for personal BT account inormation as well as other personally identifiable information and likewise does not make it clear that it is not a BT page. The mysterious message suggesting that you contact your ISP "direct" cos it's quicker is unexplained and doesn't make any sense to the innocent and ininphormed.

Nowhere is it made clear that it is anything other than a bona fide BT page.

I wonder whether the anti-phishing feature of BT Webwise will identify webwise.bt.com as a phishing site? ;)


I think this one could be VERY interesting!!!
(Fondly imagines a few more BT execs hitting forehead and going Doh!)

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

Sent to Emma Sanderson

Greetings.
Just to let you know that there a number of reports now on the web of a new phishing site.

This site purports to be that of a major ISP, and includes a contactus.php page which collects personal data, including the account number for the customer's phone bill.

The site uses the ISP parent company logo and is identical to the layout of normal ISP pages.

The contact page for the phishing site does not produce the same result as the contact page for the genuine page hosted by the ISP itself.

Investigation using WHOIS sites, and reverse lookups, has revealed that the pages and the domain that they are on, are in fact registered not to that ISP, and not hosted by that ISP. These pages are some of them hosted by FASTHIOSTS in Gloucester, some by Gryon, and some over in the USA by THEPLANET.COM

This phishing site is therefore collecting personal data from a UK ISP customer base, including customers phone account reference numbers, and sending it outside the EU.

Please add this site to the list of sites that your new Webwise antiphishing facility will warn us about.

You may already be aware of this site, which is starting to turn up on phishing alert lists all over the internet. Many people are reporting it, via google, firefox, IE7 and other antiphishing lists.
It is of course http://webwise.bt.com as well as www.webwise.bt.com

I am sending in a full report to the ICO about this site and obviously hope they take action immediately and appoint a case officer.

Can you get this site shut down?

Unless I hear to the contrary any reply to this email may be published on the internet.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i added that direct contact us page too, as it seems several people are still marking the main page as not a phish, they obviously dont understand as yet.

http://www.phishtank.com/phish_detai...hish_id=450882

iv also clicked and submitted a "something wrong with this submission" to alert the admins as to why exactly it is a phish and pointed them here to learn more....

hopefully that and the obvious personal information shown on that contactus page will make it clear they are trying to collect personal data and it might not get all the "not a phish" confirmations of the other two so far.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think we need to be a bit careful over the phishing issue. Many sites link to e-payment sites that are 3rd party hosted but designed to look like the host site. These collect information that Phorm would love.

Perhaps where BT decide to point their domains is up to them? There may be an issue about the data going abroad, but i'm not so sure that the 'impersonation' is an issue.

Wish it was.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

the difference of OC that you know full well your being directed to these 3rd party site, wereas the Phorm owned Phishing site above is not owned by BT, run by BT, but may be allowed by BT without the consent of the users.

and its NOT made clear in any shape or form you are entering a non BT internal site were you are encouraged to enter personal and private BT data that will be collected inside a US based database for unknown purposes.

that is clear phishing in most peoples book is it not!

as for 'impersonation' ,well weather its BT aproved or not, doesnt take away the fact it is still 'impersonation'....
as in
Impersonator

http://www.reference.com/search?q=impersonation
"

An impersonator is someone who imitates or copies the behavior or actions of another. There are many reasons for someone to be an Impersonator, the most common could be:

• Legally: An entertainer impersonates a celebrity, generally for entertainment, and makes fun of their recent scandals or known behavior patterns. Entertainers who impersonate multiple celebrities as part of their act are typically called impressionists.
• 
  
• Illegally: As part of a criminal act such as identity theft. This is usually where the criminal is trying to assume the identity of another in order to commit fraud such as accessing confidential information or to gain property not belonging to them. Also known as social engineering.
• Political decoy, used as a form of protection for political and military figures. This involves an impersonator who is employed (or forced) to perform during public appearances, to mislead observers.

See also

• Wannabe
• Impostor
• "

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

interesting point in the BT privacy statement

*******
Are third party sites covered by this policy?

Third party Internet sites that you can link to from BT´s websites are not covered by our privacy policy, so we urge you to be careful when you enter any personal information online. BT accepts no responsibility or liability for these sites.
Other companies which advertise or offer their products or services on our website may also allocate cookies to your PC. The types of cookies they use and how they use the information generated by them will be governed by their own privacy policies and not ours.
********

wonder if that includes the webwise site not in the BT network?

that covers links but not when redirected by BT to a third party site (eg. phorm run sites)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

LOL, and its a full circle...

that Phorm BT impersonator site links to the same PS and in there
http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/contact.php
http://www2.bt.com/btPortal/applicat...a&type=privacy





"...We do not use this information to:

• identify individuals visiting our website; or
• analyse your visits to any other websites (except that we do track you if you go to websites carrying our banner, but we do not identify personal details while we do this); or
• track any Internet searches which you may make while on our website.

Return to top
What personal information do we collect about you from other companies and organisations?

• We may receive personal information about you from other companies and organisations (for example, for marketing purposes) and we rely on these third parties to obtain your consent for us to use this information.

...
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

yes but when you go to buy something online you will normally see a message about being transferred to the epayment site, they are not normally promoted as being part of the vendors site,

but i do concur we need to be a little careful and smart about the phishing aspect, we need to see what happens tomorrow when the trial goes live and what feedback we get as regards to the exact url the invitation sends you to to opt-in, as it would not suprise me to find phorm playing games with dns

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

its mad, there appear to be still people not understanding it is a phish
as the % keep going up and down....
http://www.phishtank.com/phish_detai...hish_id=450834

to try and make it even clearer to those people i also added
the contactus link off that main page that should (but who knows what these 'not a phish' people are thinking?) make it easyer.

http://www.phishtank.com/phish_detai...hish_id=450882

this too needs more confirmed clicks if you can find the time..

hopefully the screen grab and tech details to the US site when it gets updated by the system will make it cristal clear to them it IS a Phish.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

interesting approach / idea over on the consumer action group forums

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...887-phorm.html

see post by david m
*********
If you are a customer of BT Retail (or of any other BT divisions e.g. BT Business) , Virgin Media or Carphone Warehouse Talk Talk, or any other company that thinks to profile your data for advertising , then you might like to write to them quoting the very clear The Data Protection Act 1998 section 11:

11 Right to prevent processing for purposes of direct marketing
(1) An individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing for the purposes of direct marketing personal data in respect of which he is the data subject.
(2) If the court is satisfied, on the application of any person who has given a notice under subsection (1), that the data controller has failed to comply with the notice, the court may order him to take such steps for complying with the notice as the court thinks fit.
(3) In this section "direct marketing" means the communication (by whatever means) of any advertising or marketing material which is directed to particular individuals.
************

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

assuming it does OC

did the techy Bt users run a baseline wireshark capture so as to compare later during the tial offer etc

#7122

remember we are using this for the good, not the bad (never use it for the bad), with that in mind there are several tubes you can use to learn the basics.

http://search.virginmedia.com/result...shark+howto&cr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ezGT...eature=related

im not good with the wireshark diagnostics
but its clear that Phorm or BT will not be able to pass or hide anything by/from the tech users that know how to use and extract the Phorm information we are after getting from the captures.

i cant think of a good way to have wireshark auto triger a capture if they suddenly offer you the Phorm invite page, so we might need to work out how best to capture that section, any wireshark admins here have any idea's how best to do the above?.

---------- Post added at 01:07 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

OT ,
BTW Phoenix has landed
http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplayli...segment=149773

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/main/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Could this new Consumer Law be used to report Webwise to Trading Standards?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7416809.stm

The caption to the photo should read "The internet has been used by scam artists to con people out of their data"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have confirmed that they ar a phish.