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Aguero9320 10-12-2019 20:29
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Media Boy is reporting that Comcast is planning to launch the Peacock streaming service on Virgin Media’s V6 Box, as well as BT YouView and Sky Q by 2021. CNBC have also reported that 🦚 will be a free, ad-supported service with an premium, ad-free tier.

OLD BOY 11-12-2019 07:13
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36019848)
BT have been taking on streaming of 8 games on their app for some considerable time in the Champions League so this isn’t the huge technological feat you claim it to be.

“If anyone can take on Sky, they can”

The same applies to BT. Hell even Setanta had venture capitalists with billions at their disposal back in the day. You are confusing having a business model for this task in its own right with the size of a company,
I am not confusing anything. I'm afraid you are in denial and your little bubble will burst before long.

---------- Post added at 07:13 ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguero9320 (Post 36019862)
Media Boy is reporting that Comcast is planning to launch the Peacock streaming service on Virgin Media’s V6 Box, as well as BT YouView and Sky Q by 2021. CNBC have also reported that 🦚 will be a free, ad-supported service with an premium, ad-free tier.
It will be interesting to see the content on offer. I might subscribe to this service if there are originals on it and other good dramas that I haven't seen.

Aguero9320 11-12-2019 08:12
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36019874)
I am not confusing anything. I'm afraid you are in denial and your little bubble will burst before long.

---------- Post added at 07:13 ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 ----------



It will be interesting to see the content on offer. I might subscribe to this service if there are originals on it and other good dramas that I haven't seen.
Here's what I can get for you so far, OB.

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/...price-features

OLD BOY 11-12-2019 09:57
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguero9320 (Post 36019877)
Here's what I can get for you so far, OB.

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/...price-features
Interesting. Thanks, Aguero. Not very much on that list that grabs me, but I will see all the stuff in the library when it launches. It's the originals that are of particular interest to me!

pip08456 11-12-2019 11:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36019881)
Interesting. Thanks, Aguero. Not very much on that list that grabs me, but I will see all the stuff in the library when it launches. It's the originals that are of particular interest to me!
I think it won't be much different to what is available now library wise.

https://www.nbc.com/

jfman 11-12-2019 18:08
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36019874)
I am not confusing anything. I'm afraid you are in denial and your little bubble will burst before long.

It will be interesting to see the content on offer. I might subscribe to this service if there are originals on it and other good dramas that I haven't seen.
I’m unsure how you can describe observable reality as “denial” and my “little bubble”.

You are the one having your vision skewed by confirmation bias. The world you want to see is streaming as thousands of posts demonstrate on this forum.

I’ve tried multiple times to ask why the basic rules of economics don’t apply to streamers. The only way costs come down, after spending £5bn on TV rights, is if Amazon (anyone else) can sell it to substantially more customers. Where are they? This is a basic principle of any service being sold, not just television. Your presumption here is that Sky are bad at understanding price elasticity after 26 years of selling Premiership football as a core part of it’s product, retention offers and through Now TV.

They could attempt to cross subsidise, but this would put them at competitive disadvantage against other retailers in their core market who don’t have to additionally squeeze hundreds of millions of profits out of their sales.

OLD BOY 11-12-2019 19:27
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36019916)

I’m unsure how you can describe observable reality as “denial” and my “little bubble”.

You are the one having your vision skewed by confirmation bias. The world you want to see is streaming as thousands of posts demonstrate on this forum.

I’ve tried multiple times to ask why the basic rules of economics don’t apply to streamers. The only way costs come down, after spending £5bn on TV rights, is if Amazon (anyone else) can sell it to substantially more customers. Where are they? This is a basic principle of any service being sold, not just television. Your presumption here is that Sky are bad at understanding price elasticity after 26 years of selling Premiership football as a core part of it’s product, retention offers and through Now TV.

They could attempt to cross subsidise, but this would put them at competitive disadvantage against other retailers in their core market who don’t have to additionally squeeze hundreds of millions of profits out of their sales.
The reason I said that is the world seems to pass you by and you don't notice. It's like you are frozen in aspic and powerless to move on.

What you have failed to do is justify your assertion that Sky can stump up for the bigger Premiership rights, but Amazon cannot. And the fact that you always seem to take the view that nothing will happen because it hasn't happened yet. These are hardly well thought out arguments, are they?

By the way, I do think that streaming and on demand viewing are the future, but not just because that appeals to me. I am merely observing the way we are going, and it is strange that you cannot seem to grasp that. Do you really think that when everything goes IPTV that our programmes will still be presented the way they are now, through scheduled channels crammed with advertisements?

I don't think so!

jfman 11-12-2019 19:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36019935)
The reason I said that is the world seems to pass you by and you don't notice. It's like you are frozen in aspic and powerless to move on.

What you have failed to do is justify your assertion that Sky can stump up for the bigger Premiership rights, but Amazon cannot. And the fact that you always seem to take the view that nothing will happen because it hasn't happened yet. These are hardly well thought out arguments, are they?
You haven’t demonstrated what will change to enable another supplier to enter the market and succeed. Indeed, as I’ve pointed out before, the strategists at Sky correctly predicted a fall in the value of the rights despite the “looming shadow” of Amazon being peddled by the Premier League snake oil salesmen.

The thing is economics, and principles of retailing anything, are largely frozen in time. Streaming is just another mechanism of delivering television - it’s not the revolution you claim it to be and a streamer has to have a viable model just as ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN and others have tried. Where are the customers?

I have pointed out numerous times that Sky have the customers to be profitable on day 1 of a rights window. Everyone else has to catch up.

Quote:
By the way, I do think that streaming and on demand viewing are the future, but not just because that appeals to me. I am merely observing the way we are going, and it is strange that you cannot seem to grasp that. Do you really think that when everything goes IPTV that our programmes will still be presented the way they are now, through scheduled channels crammed with advertisements?

I don't think so!
And that’s just it - it’s solely your thoughts. No-one has ever had to sit down and watch adverts since PVRs came out. Yet, the observable reality is they do. You see people as simple, straightforward and inclined to do what you prefer. However consumers aren’t a single homogenous group going to wake up tomorrow and decide to stop watching scheduled television.

Raider999 11-12-2019 21:16
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36019938)
You haven’t demonstrated what will change to enable another supplier to enter the market and succeed. Indeed, as I’ve pointed out before, the strategists at Sky correctly predicted a fall in the value of the rights despite the “looming shadow” of Amazon being peddled by the Premier League snake oil salesmen.

The thing is economics, and principles of retailing anything, are largely frozen in time. Streaming is just another mechanism of delivering television - it’s not the revolution you claim it to be and a streamer has to have a viable model just as ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN and others have tried. Where are the customers?

I have pointed out numerous times that Sky have the customers to be profitable on day 1 of a rights window. Everyone else has to catch up.



And that’s just it - it’s solely your thoughts. No-one has ever had to sit down and watch adverts since PVRs came out. Yet, the observable reality is they do. You see people as simple, straightforward and inclined to do what you prefer. However consumers aren’t a single homogenous group going to wake up tomorrow and decide to stop watching scheduled television.

Haven't watched adverts for 20 years, don't see any reason to start now.

Watched the Leeds v Hull game yesterday, just like watching at the ground (with exception I watch what I am shown rather than what I want to see) - no action replays at all, no recording so had to wait 15 minutes for the 2nd half.

Progress - I think not!

OLD BOY 11-12-2019 22:33
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36019938)
You haven’t demonstrated what will change to enable another supplier to enter the market and succeed. Indeed, as I’ve pointed out before, the strategists at Sky correctly predicted a fall in the value of the rights despite the “looming shadow” of Amazon being peddled by the Premier League snake oil salesmen.

The thing is economics, and principles of retailing anything, are largely frozen in time. Streaming is just another mechanism of delivering television - it’s not the revolution you claim it to be and a streamer has to have a viable model just as ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN and others have tried. Where are the customers?

I have pointed out numerous times that Sky have the customers to be profitable on day 1 of a rights window. Everyone else has to catch up.
What will change is Amazon making a bid. The December trial may just make their minds up.

You have pointed out countless times that we are 'only' talking about a different method of delivery. Nobody is arguing with you on this point. But it will be a completely different experience for those viewers who have never experienced the delights of on demand viewing and streaming. That very change will see off the existing scheduled channels.

---------- Post added at 22:33 ---------- Previous post was at 22:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36019938)
And that’s just it - it’s solely your thoughts. No-one has ever had to sit down and watch adverts since PVRs came out. Yet, the observable reality is they do. You see people as simple, straightforward and inclined to do what you prefer. However consumers aren’t a single homogenous group going to wake up tomorrow and decide to stop watching scheduled television.
Of course it's my thoughts, based on observation. That is no revelation, surely? Just as you have been expressing your thoughts.

Your take on how I think is completely inaccurate, but then I have told you that before as well.

It would be a much better use of our time if we were able to simply observe what is happening and try to work out where all this is going, rather than trying to trip up or psychoanalyse each other. Instead of simply pointing out that we disagree, adding a bit of substance as to why would be more illuminating.

Chris 11-12-2019 22:34
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36019957)
What will change is Amazon making a bid. The December trial may just make their minds up.

You have pointed out countless times that we are 'only' talking about a different method of delivery. Nobody is arguing with you on this point. But it will be a completely different experience for those viewers who have never experienced the delights of on demand viewing and streaming. That very change will see off the existing scheduled channels.
Live sport over IP is still scheduled TV. It really isn't a completely different experience, it's exactly the same, right down to the commercials that run at half time (yes, Amazon played adverts at half time). Streaming live sport is not a delight, at its best (i.e. when you have sufficient bandwidth) it is exactly the same as watching Sky Sports, you sit down in front of your TV before the match starts, select the appropriate channel from the electronic programme guide (or item from the menu) and open a beer.

buckeye 12-12-2019 09:47
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
BT Sport are now offering a stand alone monthly subscription for £25 a month.
Its available on PC, Samsung smart TV's, Apple TV, Xbox One and PS4.
Its quite costly but not so if you factor in you don't need a TV package of BT broadband to get it now.

https://www.bt.com/sport/monthly-pass

OLD BOY 13-12-2019 01:11
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36019961)
Live sport over IP is still scheduled TV. It really isn't a completely different experience, it's exactly the same, right down to the commercials that run at half time (yes, Amazon played adverts at half time). Streaming live sport is not a delight, at its best (i.e. when you have sufficient bandwidth) it is exactly the same as watching Sky Sports, you sit down in front of your TV before the match starts, select the appropriate channel from the electronic programme guide (or item from the menu) and open a beer.
I agree with you to an extent, Chris. Indeed, live sport over IP is scheduled tv. But it is a different experience fot the viewer. We will no longer be accessing live tv via conventional scheduled tv channels. The closest example is if you look at the BBC channels. You can watch live tv either via a scheduled tv channel such as BBC 1 or you can watch it via BBC i-Player, and what is more, you can elect to watch that live programme from the beginning if you want to.

I completely understand that your poor broadband reception will colour your experience. I am lucky enough to have lovely broadband speeds via Virgin Media, but once these speeds are rolled out nationwide, things will look a lot different.

Raider999 13-12-2019 20:20
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36019961)
Live sport over IP is still scheduled TV. It really isn't a completely different experience, it's exactly the same, right down to the commercials that run at half time (yes, Amazon played adverts at half time). Streaming live sport is not a delight, at its best (i.e. when you have sufficient bandwidth) it is exactly the same as watching Sky Sports, you sit down in front of your TV before the match starts, select the appropriate channel from the electronic programme guide (or item from the menu) and open a beer.
No it's not, it is nothing like watching Sky Sports - where you can record and start when you want, pause when you want a new beer, get action replays of jokey moments etc etc.

Streaming is a backward step for me, NOT an improvement or even as good.

Legendkiller2k 13-12-2019 22:36
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36020241)
No it's not, it is nothing like watching Sky Sports - where you can record and start when you want, pause when you want a new beer, get action replays of jokey moments etc etc.

Streaming is a backward step for me, NOT an improvement or even as good.
You can record to a cloud dvr with HULU, FUBO, SLING too.

muppetman11 13-12-2019 22:54
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k (Post 36020244)
You can record to a cloud dvr with HULU, FUBO, SLING too.
Not much use for us in the UK.:D

Legendkiller2k 13-12-2019 23:18
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36020245)
Not much use for us in the UK.:D
Lol true but there are ways :D

I wouldn't be surprised to see dvr recording show up on Nowtv as some content is only available via live channels such as the simpsons.

OLD BOY 14-12-2019 07:47
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36020241)
No it's not, it is nothing like watching Sky Sports - where you can record and start when you want, pause when you want a new beer, get action replays of jokey moments etc etc.

Streaming is a backward step for me, NOT an improvement or even as good.
You can start where you want and pause for a beer, and after the live stream, you can still see it on demand if you want to for a limited period. At least that's how BBC i-Player works - I assume that Amazon is the same.

Raider999 15-12-2019 13:06
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36020247)
You can start where you want and pause for a beer, and after the live stream, you can still see it on demand if you want to for a limited period. At least that's how BBC i-Player works - I assume that Amazon is the same.
Well that doesn't work for watching Red Button streams on Sky Sports (using V6 box)

OLD BOY 15-12-2019 13:34
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36020351)
Well that doesn't work for watching Red Button streams on Sky Sports (using V6 box)
That may be so, Raider, but you can do it on BBC iPlayer streams, so it is perfectly possible. You can test it for yourself right now. Each BBC channel has its own live stream.

Legendkiller2k 15-12-2019 13:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36020353)
That may be so, Raider, but you can do it on BBC iPlayer streams, so it is perfectly possible. You can test it for yourself right now. Each BBC channel has its own live stream.
Can also do it on itv hub live stream and 4od live streams.

OLD BOY 16-12-2019 08:48
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Britbox has suffered a blow. Sky don't want it on their platform.

BT will be providing the service, but no word yet from Virgin Media.

https://www.cityam.com/sky-scuppers-...aming-service/

denphone 16-12-2019 09:16
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36020412)
Britbox has suffered a blow. Sky don't want it on their platform.

BT will be providing the service, but no word yet from Virgin Media.

https://www.cityam.com/sky-scuppers-...aming-service/
Don't say you were not told by the likes of Muppetman and other forum members.

It was doomed before it started..

OLD BOY 16-12-2019 09:19
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36020414)
Don't say you were not told by the likes of Muppetman and other forum members.

It was doomed before it started..
Amazon Prime isn't on Sky either. Do you think Amazon is doomed also? :scratch::D

denphone 16-12-2019 09:23
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36020415)
Amazon Prime isn't on Sky either. Do you think Amazon is doomed also? :scratch::D
There is a great lot of difference between a 160lb gorilla which is Amazon and one called Britbox that weighs about 14 ounces.:D

1andrew1 16-12-2019 11:52
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36020412)
Britbox has suffered a blow. Sky don't want it on their platform.

BT will be providing the service, but no word yet from Virgin Media.

https://www.cityam.com/sky-scuppers-...aming-service/
It makes sense for Sky not to have it as they have bought a lot of the content directly or via UKTV. VM may be in a similar situation, I don't know.

muppetman11 16-12-2019 12:43
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
As you know I've been trialling Britbox and I'm not impressed if I'm honest it's certainly not something I'd subscribe to long term and won't bother beyond the trial.

OLD BOY 16-12-2019 14:34
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36020459)
It makes sense for Sky not to have it as they have bought a lot of the content directly or via UKTV. VM may be in a similar situation, I don't know.
Agreed. That is more likely to be the reason.

---------- Post added at 14:32 ---------- Previous post was at 14:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36020416)
There is a great lot of difference between a 160lb gorilla which is Amazon and one called Britbox that weighs about 14 ounces.:D
Yes, I get that, but my point was that just because Britbox will not appear on Sky doesn't mean it is doomed to failure.

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36020470)
As you know I've been trialling Britbox and I'm not impressed if I'm honest it's certainly not something I'd subscribe to long term and won't bother beyond the trial.
I certainly wouldn't bother with it until they have the originals appearing. At the moment it would appeal more to UKTV and non-subscription audiences.

I don't watch repeats so I'm certainly not going to pay for them!

denphone 16-12-2019 16:22
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
So much positivity but reality often wins out OB.:D

Mr K 16-12-2019 16:28
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Getting my annual trial free month of Amazon Prime again, before i cancel in the New year (again) - handy at Xmas time ;) Had it a week and think i've seen everything worth watching as far as tv/movies go.. Unless i'm missing something - please direct me to something worthwhile and British made if i am ! (watched Good Omens)

Don't know why people subscribe for a year. Outside of Xmas time i find Amazon deliver with a day or 2 anyway even if you don't have Prime.

vincerooney 16-12-2019 16:31
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36020488)
Getting my annual trial free month of Amazon Prime again, before i cancel in the New year (again) - handy at Xmas time ;) Had it a week and think i've seen everything worth watching as far as tv/movies go.. Unless i'm missing something - please direct me to something worthwhile and British made if i am ! (watched Good Omens)

Don't know why people subscribe for a year. Outside of Xmas time i find Amazon deliver with a day or 2 anyway even if you don't have Prime.
I know what you mean. i think the problem is the interface. there is a lot more available to watch but the fact they shove in things not included in prime makes the whole interface bloated and difficult to find anything

Chris 16-12-2019 18:23
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36020488)
Getting my annual trial free month of Amazon Prime again, before i cancel in the New year (again) - handy at Xmas time ;) Had it a week and think i've seen everything worth watching as far as tv/movies go.. Unless i'm missing something - please direct me to something worthwhile and British made if i am ! (watched Good Omens)

Don't know why people subscribe for a year. Outside of Xmas time i find Amazon deliver with a day or 2 anyway even if you don't have Prime.
For us, because where we live, they don’t deliver within a day or two if you choose the free 3-5 day delivery. They take 3-5 days.

Also the order deadline for next day delivery is quite late in the evening for many products, if we want something sent to family in Glasgow same day delivery is often available, and when we’re off the mainland they will still deliver free of charge, even though it takes a little longer.

Plus there’s a ton of box sets there I never saw on tv due to not having sky, or having young kids, so I’m doing years of catch up.

And The Boys is really good. :D

muppetman11 16-12-2019 22:03
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Disney+ Locks Exclusive Distribution Deal With French Pay-TV Giant Canal Plus

https://deadline.com/2019/12/disney-...us-1202809795/

It seems Disney are still open to striking deals for its content outside the US.

1andrew1 17-12-2019 00:02
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36020516)
Disney+ Locks Exclusive Distribution Deal With French Pay-TV Giant Canal Plus

https://deadline.com/2019/12/disney-...us-1202809795/

It seems Disney are still open to striking deals for its content outside the US.
Yes. I think like HBO they'll take a market-by-market approach but you think they will annoy quite a few people in France who don't subscribe to Canal Plus.
The UK looks set to be a non-exclusive deal so we won't have this problem. I assume we'll still have live channels from Fox and National Geographic but will it be goodbye to Sky Movies Disney?

pip08456 17-12-2019 00:56
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36020518)
Yes. I think like HBO they'll take a market-by-market approach but you think they will annoy quite a few people in France who don't subscribe to Canal Plus.
The UK looks set to be a non-exclusive deal so we won't have this problem. I assume we'll still have live channels from Fox and National Geographic but will it be goodbye to Sky Movies Disney?
Yes it will be goodbye Sky movies Disney. The whole reason for the delay to UK release and elsewhere in Europe was waiting for the licenses to expire.

muppetman11 17-12-2019 10:40
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36020518)
Yes. I think like HBO they'll take a market-by-market approach but you think they will annoy quite a few people in France who don't subscribe to Canal Plus.
The UK looks set to be a non-exclusive deal so we won't have this problem. I assume we'll still have live channels from Fox and National Geographic but will it be goodbye to Sky Movies Disney?
Who says Sky won't strike a deal with Disney ? The French Disney + is the same start date as ours isn't it ?

heero_yuy 17-12-2019 11:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Quote from The Sun:The Pirate Bay's new Netflix rival is called BayStream, and will let unscrupulous users flout copyright laws anywhere in the world.

Web pirates have been accessing bootleg telly on The Pirate Bay since 2003.

But these files were always offered on a download-only basis, requiring special software to obtain the file from other users.

Now BayStream, which is currently in testing, makes it possible to stream a pirated item completely free of charge – like Netflix for crooks.

It's worth noting that BayStream isn't technically illegal itself – but viewing or sharing pirated content through it is illegal.
Full story on red link above.

This'll put the cat amongst the pigeons.

denphone 17-12-2019 12:55
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Netflix has released a breakdown of its subscriber numbers outside of North America. It’s the first time the streamer has made the information available.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019...eid=3598503789

Aguero9320 19-12-2019 21:29
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36020518)
Yes. I think like HBO they'll take a market-by-market approach but you think they will annoy quite a few people in France who don't subscribe to Canal Plus.
The UK looks set to be a non-exclusive deal so we won't have this problem. I assume we'll still have live channels from Fox and National Geographic but will it be goodbye to Sky Movies Disney?
Does anyone know when Sky’s deal with Disney expires? If Disney play hardball with Sky regarding movies and the fact Hulu is not yet available, I could see ABC and Fox series disappearing from Sky and moving to Fox as well.

1andrew1 19-12-2019 21:40
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36020534)
Who says Sky won't strike a deal with Disney ? The French Disney + is the same start date as ours isn't it ?
Disney UK & Ireland have "...clarified that the existing DisneyLife service will be "rebranded" as Disney Plus, with users able to transition their subscription to the new service."

This doesn't suggest they will make the service platform exclusive.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/di...date-announced

Regarding Sky "...it has a deal in place for a dedicated Sky Disney channel on the firm’s movies platform, and that contract is apparently not due to expire until some point in 2020.
https://www.filmstories.co.uk/featur...ney-in-the-uk/

pip08456 19-12-2019 23:02
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguero9320 (Post 36020694)
Does anyone know when Sky’s deal with Disney expires? If Disney play hardball with Sky regarding movies and the fact Hulu is not yet available, I could see ABC and Fox series disappearing from Sky and moving to Fox as well.
March 31st 2020. That is why the UK has had to wait until then for Disney+.

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36020541)
Full story on red link above.

This'll put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Obviously you've never heard of Kodi.

muppetman11 20-12-2019 10:07
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36020695)
Disney UK & Ireland have "...clarified that the existing DisneyLife service will be "rebranded" as Disney Plus, with users able to transition their subscription to the new service."

This doesn't suggest they will make the service platform exclusive.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/di...date-announced

Regarding Sky "...it has a deal in place for a dedicated Sky Disney channel on the firm’s movies platform, and that contract is apparently not due to expire until some point in 2020.
https://www.filmstories.co.uk/featur...ney-in-the-uk/
I meant they could easily strike a deal with Disney to include it's + service for Sky Cinema subscribers and give non subscribers the chance to purchase.

OLD BOY 20-12-2019 10:19
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36020703)
I meant they could easily strike a deal with Disney to include it's + service for Sky Cinema subscribers and give non subscribers the chance to purchase.
That would make sense on a short-term basis while Disney waited for existing contracts to expire. Disney could even extend existing contracts on condition that from March/April 2020 they would no longer be exclusive on Sky.

However, my gut feeling is that when existing contracts come to an end, everything will go exclusively to Disney+.

I am sure it will be one of those three scenarios.

muppetman11 20-12-2019 10:29
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Disney has already proven it's willing to work with platforms if the terms of the deal are right.

It's a game of numbers for both neither outcome would surprise me.

tweetiepooh 20-12-2019 11:31
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
If all these producers go their own way with own subscriptions and it all getting more expensive I just go back to buying DVD's for the titles I want when they are on offer at the supermarket.

OLD BOY 20-12-2019 13:10
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36020709)
If all these producers go their own way with own subscriptions and it all getting more expensive I just go back to buying DVD's for the titles I want when they are on offer at the supermarket.
That might prove an expensive option, but I guess it depends on how many DVDs you would buy.

denphone 20-12-2019 13:16
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36020720)
That might prove an expensive option, but I guess it depends on how many DVDs you would buy.
New releases in the supermarkets are generally the same price as the digital versions bought online.

OLD BOY 20-12-2019 13:20
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36020722)
New releases in the supermarkets are generally the same price as the digital versions bought online.
Yes, but what I meant was that a subscription is cheaper than that if you watch a lot of premium programmes.

I am hopeful that there will be plenty of AVOD streamers on the scene before long, with an ad-free subscription available, although it's possible that even these will have a lower level subscription to pay, as Peacock is planning to do.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...th-nent-group/

denphone 20-12-2019 13:33
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36020724)
Yes, but what I meant was that a subscription is cheaper than that if you watch a lot of premium programmes.

I am hopeful that there will be plenty of AVOD streamers on the scene before long, with an ad-free subscription available, although it's possible that even these will have a lower level subscription to pay, as Peacock is planning to do.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...th-nent-group/
Some don't want subscriptions though or they might want to have maybe one or two subscriptions where they can dip in and out of when there is some good content on there.

How many subscribed to NOW TV when Game of Thrones was on there and how many unsubscribed once the series ended.

l would have loved to have seen the figures.

Media Boy UK 26-12-2019 19:57
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Disney pulls shows from Sky as it prepares for UK streaming debut

Disney + will launch in UK and Ireland on March 31st 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...treaming-debut

OLD BOY 26-12-2019 20:12
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36021200)
Disney pulls shows from Sky as it prepares for UK streaming debut

Disney + will launch in UK and Ireland on March 31st 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...treaming-debut
As was expected!

pip08456 26-12-2019 20:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021203)
As was expected!
Quite. In fact Disney hasn't pulled anything, it just hasn't renewed licenses.

Chad 26-12-2019 22:23
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Sky will find a way. Similar to Canal+ deal I expect Disney + to launch on SKYQ as part of the Ultimate on Demand package. No way SKY will be able to agree a deal that thwarts Disney+ from launching in the UK like their deal with HBO.

OLD BOY 27-12-2019 08:45
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad (Post 36021216)
Sky will find a way. Similar to Canal+ deal I expect Disney + to launch on SKYQ as part of the Ultimate on Demand package. No way SKY will be able to agree a deal that thwarts Disney+ from launching in the UK like their deal with HBO.
I have no doubt that Disney + will appear on TV packages offered by various platforms, such as Sky, Virgin Media and BT. However, this will be at the expense of some Sky channels. This is a trend that will be very worrying for Sky, so their new studios are going to have to work flat out to replace what they will lose.

muppetman11 27-12-2019 10:57
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021230)
This is a trend that will be very worrying for Sky, so their new studios are going to have to work flat out to replace what they will lose.
Why so worrying for Sky ? I'd say more worrying for the likes of those platforms who own little to none of their own content.

Both Disney and Comcast are predicted to be the biggest global spenders of content.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/am...y-says-1167862

Legendkiller2k 27-12-2019 11:56
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36021200)
Disney pulls shows from Sky as it prepares for UK streaming debut

Disney + will launch in UK and Ireland on March 31st 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...treaming-debut
I'd imagine shows such as Greys, Revenge etc would be on hulu uk which i suspect we'll see next year.

OLD BOY 27-12-2019 13:14
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021245)
Why so worrying for Sky ? I'd say more worrying for the likes of those platforms who own little to none of their own content.

Both Disney and Comcast are predicted to be the biggest global spenders of content.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/am...y-says-1167862
Because so much of their channel content comes from other studios. If Disney end up pulling all of their material from Sky, bang goes Sky Disney, the Disney Channel and Disney XD for a start. If other studios do the same, that's more channels down the shute.

Do you really think Sky can make up for all this with the programmes they will be making from their new studios?

I take the point that not all studios will necessarily go for the direct to consumer approach, but Sky will be eyeing this up very carefully, with some trepidation, I would have thought.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Sky will not survive this; I do believe it will. But things will look very different in the future, and people won't be prepared to spend a fortune on TV subscriptions as they do now with a lot fewer channels on offer.

muppetman11 27-12-2019 13:34
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021266)
Because so much of their channel content comes from other studios. If Disney end up pulling all of their material from Sky, bang goes Sky Disney, the Disney Channel and Disney XD for a start. If other studios do the same, that's more channels down the shute.

Do you really think Sky can make up for all this with the programmes they will be making from their new studios?

I take the point that not all studios will necessarily go for the direct to consumer approach, but Sky will be eyeing this up very carefully, with some trepidation, I would have thought.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Sky will not survive this; I do believe it will. But things will look very different in the future, and people won't be prepared to spend a fortune on TV subscriptions as they do now with a lot fewer channels on offer.
And yet you tell us daily that Netflix has more than enough content to survive , Comcast and Sky combined has far more content under its belt and actually makes money from it unlike Netflix.

1andrew1 27-12-2019 13:40
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021272)
And yet you tell us daily that Netflix has more than enough content to survive , Comcast and Sky combined has far more content under its belt and actually makes money from it unlike Netflix.
Sky will also save money on not buying so much content from Disney and Comcast can give more prominenece to its content than it would have been able to do before.

muppetman11 27-12-2019 13:57
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36021273)
Sky will also save money on not buying so much content from Disney and Comcast can give more prominenece to its content than it would have been able to do before.
Completely agree , don't get me wrong I'm not playing down the potential loss of Disney content for many people it's must have content.

Sky will know it's figures and do everything in its power to reach some kind of deal even if it ends up a wholesale deal for Disney +.

Look how many Comcast shows end up on Netflix and Amazon currently , in the future I'd expect that to change with Comcast bolstering Sky's offering.

jfman 27-12-2019 13:58
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021272)
And yet you tell us daily that Netflix has more than enough content to survive , Comcast and Sky combined has far more content under its belt and actually makes money from it unlike Netflix.
Exactly, the notion that one of the largest media companies in the world - that extracts its revenues and profits from retailing television - is going to be unable to adapt is completely ridiculous. Yet, these plucky upstarts that don't exist yet will absolutely thrive. :confused:

The market for half a dozen streamers (or more) is completely untested and unproven. Eleven Sports have proven that people won't subscribe to a streamer simply because it exists.

OLD BOY 27-12-2019 14:57
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021272)
And yet you tell us daily that Netflix has more than enough content to survive , Comcast and Sky combined has far more content under its belt and actually makes money from it unlike Netflix.
And how much of that has already been screened in the UK? I'm sorry, but whilst Netflix will lose some content, they have so many originals on there, I'm sure they will survive!

---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021277)

Exactly, the notion that one of the largest media companies in the world - that extracts its revenues and profits from retailing television - is going to be unable to adapt is completely ridiculous. Yet, these plucky upstarts that don't exist yet will absolutely thrive. :confused:

The market for half a dozen streamers (or more) is completely untested and unproven. Eleven Sports have proven that people won't subscribe to a streamer simply because it exists.
Nobody said that Sky will be unable to adapt. However, they will have to change.

jfman 27-12-2019 15:01
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
You have consistently portrayed Sky as under threat but not Netflix or Amazon - the incumbents in the £8.99 a month pay tv market.

muppetman11 27-12-2019 17:42
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021280)
And how much of that has already been screened in the UK? I'm sorry, but whilst Netflix will lose some content, they have so many originals on there, I'm sure they will survive!

---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------



Nobody said that Sky will be unable to adapt. However, they will have to change.
As usual you are completely missing the point , shows such as The Sinner , Mr Robot , The Purge have been sold to the likes of Amazon and Netflix being that Comcast own the rights to these it's possible on future projects it will miss Amazon and Netflix and show the content on its own service and through Sky.

Its amazing how you somehow think Netflix are immune from competition and having shows pulled off its service by competing media cos.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatsp...in-on-netflix/

denphone 27-12-2019 17:53
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021305)
As usual you are completely missing the point , shows such as The Sinner , Mr Robot , The Purge have been sold to the likes of Amazon and Netflix being that Comcast own the rights to these it's possible on future projects it will miss Amazon and Netflix and show the content on its own service and through Sky.

Its amazing how you somehow think Netflix are immune from competition and having shows pulled off its service by competing services.
He only sees what he wants to see springs to mind...;)

OLD BOY 27-12-2019 19:13
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021283)
You have consistently portrayed Sky as under threat but not Netflix or Amazon - the incumbents in the £8.99 a month pay tv market.
Sky is certainly under pressure. It is feeling the pinch with imported content as well as the cost of sports rights. That doesn't mean Sky is under threat (that's your interpretation) but it is certainly under pressure.

The takeover by Comcast is a blessing for Sky because that has enabled a considerable amount of extra content to be secured. However, if much of that has been shown already in the UK, it will still have to invest in a lot more original content to keep the punters opening their wallets.

Netflix will also suffer a loss of content, but by golly, they are certainly churning out the originals. And that is why Netflix is in a better place than Sky, content wise.

Amazon also has quite a lot of original content, albeit not as much as Netflix. However its attraction lies in the fact that they also carry a lot of new stuff on a pay per view basis. Additionally, of course, they have their retail business, which sets them apart from Sky and Netflix.

denphone 27-12-2019 19:24
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021315)
Sky is certainly under pressure. It is feeling the pinch with imported content as well as the cost of sports rights. That doesn't mean Sky is under threat (that's your interpretation) but it is certainly under pressure.

The takeover by Comcast is a blessing for Sky because that has enabled a considerable amount of extra content to be secured. However, if much of that has been shown already in the UK, it will still have to invest in a lot more original content to keep the punters opening their wallets.

Netflix will also suffer a loss of content, but by golly, they are certainly churning out the originals. And that is why Netflix is in a better place than Sky, content wise.



Amazon also has quite a lot of original content, albeit not as much as Netflix. However its attraction lies in the fact that they also carry a lot of new stuff on a pay per view basis. Additionally, of course, they have their retail business, which sets them apart from Sky and Netflix.
Well that view is in the eye of the beholder as Sky have some brilliant content on Sky Atlantic especially.

Horizon 27-12-2019 19:37
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Just a reminder folks that the only Disney content being pulled from Sky at the moment is on their on demand service. No channels are affected, as yet.

The only other "pulling" off content that I'm aware of is the gradual reduction of BBC stuff on Netflix due to the BBC expanding the iplayer, Britbox and their deal with Discovery.

jfman 27-12-2019 19:39
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021315)
Sky is certainly under pressure. It is feeling the pinch with imported content as well as the cost of sports rights. That doesn't mean Sky is under threat (that's your interpretation) but it is certainly under pressure.
Is it you consistently portraying these issues for Sky that somehow Netflix/Amazon are apparently immune to, or at least you fail to consider the impacts.

The Premiership rights have fell in value - Sky's main competitor in the market (BT) have indicated they are not going to enter into never ending bidding wars.

Quote:
The takeover by Comcast is a blessing for Sky because that has enabled a considerable amount of extra content to be secured. However, if much of that has been shown already in the UK, it will still have to invest in a lot more original content to keep the punters opening their wallets.
Your word choice 'blessing' is quite curious. Mergers and acquisitions of companies don't happen by chance. The whole point is to extract greater value from existing assets under the one umbrella.

Quote:
Netflix will also suffer a loss of content, but by golly, they are certainly churning out the originals. And that is why Netflix is in a better place than Sky, content wise.
By golly indeed. Eye watering amounts being spent on top of an already eye watering level of debt.

Quote:
Amazon also has quite a lot of original content, albeit not as much as Netflix. However its attraction lies in the fact that they also carry a lot of new stuff on a pay per view basis. Additionally, of course, they have their retail business, which sets them apart from Sky and Netflix.
Amazon's retail operation doesn't guarantee them success, or otherwise, in the pay-tv market.

Hugh 27-12-2019 23:46
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Amazon's retail operation doesn't guarantee them success, or otherwise, in the pay-tv market.
However, that, along with AWS, gives them additional revenue streams to support what they are doing...

AWS is one of Amazon's strongest revenue segments, generating 25.66 billion U.S. dollars in 2018 net sales, and in 2019 Q3, AWS delivered 71% of Amazon’s total operating income and 13% of its total revenue - Amazon’s strength is that it’s not a one-trick pony.

1andrew1 28-12-2019 13:07
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Looking at the Now TV website suggests that some Disney-owned films are not leaving Sky until well after Disney + launches. For example,
Captain Marvel (Streaming until 31 January 2021)
Die Hard (31 May 2021)
Dumbo (21 February 2021)
Jingle all the Way (30 April 2022)
Rise of the Planet of the Apes (11 October 2021)
X-Men: First Class (2 September 2021)

However, I can see Sky being squeezed on the content front from 2022 onwards when it might have little Disney content and its new studios have not come on stream. I guess that might be filled with content from NBC Universal and Warner Media that's currently on other platforms.

muppetman11 28-12-2019 14:34
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36021388)
Looking at the Now TV website suggests that some Disney-owned films are not leaving Sky until well after Disney + launches. For example,
Captain Marvel (Streaming until 31 January 2021)
Die Hard (31 May 2021)
Dumbo (21 February 2021)
Jingle all the Way (30 April 2022)
Rise of the Planet of the Apes (11 October 2021)
X-Men: First Class (2 September 2021)

However, I can see Sky being squeezed on the content front from 2022 onwards when it might have little Disney content and its new studios have not come on stream. I guess that might be filled with content from NBC Universal and Warner Media that's currently on other platforms.
Without Disney content Sky Cinema will struggle to continue in its current form that said it could easily restructure it's packages to have the basic Entertainment pack and an Entertainment + which includes movies I'm sure many would take it if the pricing was around £22 for Entertainment and £30 for Entertainment +.

pip08456 28-12-2019 14:54
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 36021320)
Just a reminder folks that the only Disney content being pulled from Sky at the moment is on their on demand service. No channels are affected, as yet.

The only other "pulling" off content that I'm aware of is the gradual reduction of BBC stuff on Netflix due to the BBC expanding the iplayer, Britbox and their deal with Discovery.
Just a reminder. The Simpsons is on their on demand service.

1andrew1 28-12-2019 16:20
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021396)
Without Disney content Sky Cinema will struggle to continue in its current form that said it could easily restructure it's packages to have the basic Entertainment pack and an Entertainment + which includes movies I'm sure many would take it if the pricing was around £22 for Entertainment and £30 for Entertainment +.
It's about that now - £22 for Entertainment and £32 for Entertainment and Movies.

muppetman11 28-12-2019 16:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36021403)
It's about that now - £22 for Entertainment and £32 for Entertainment and Movies.
Include Disney+ through an Ultimate On Demand sub is another option if a wholesale deal can be reached.

Horizon 28-12-2019 20:22
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36021397)
Just a reminder. The Simpsons is on their on demand service.
Old episodes, not new, yet.

OLD BOY 29-12-2019 19:23
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021321)
Is it you consistently portraying these issues for Sky that somehow Netflix/Amazon are apparently immune to, or at least you fail to consider the impacts.

The Premiership rights have fell in value - Sky's main competitor in the market (BT) have indicated they are not going to enter into never ending bidding wars.

Your word choice 'blessing' is quite curious. Mergers and acquisitions of companies don't happen by chance. The whole point is to extract greater value from existing assets under the one umbrella.

By golly indeed. Eye watering amounts being spent on top of an already eye watering level of debt.

Amazon's retail operation doesn't guarantee them success, or otherwise, in the pay-tv market.
I certainly haven't said that Netflix and Amazon are immune to the moves towards the direct to customer approach. That's just you saying that. The point has been made repeatedly that Netflix is already having to give up its Disney content.

As far as the Premiership rights are concerned, Sky have already made it clear that they are not going to keep paying more in real terms for them. This, together with increasing interest being taken by the streamers, I wouldn't bank on Sky holding onto these rights forever.

Of course, the Comcast takeover of Sky was not by chance - again, who said it was? Murdoch got out while he still could on his terms.

The Amazon retail operation is an additional string to their bow that the other streamers and broadcasters do not have. Obviously, nothing is guaranteed - good decisions and good financial management are essential.

jfman 29-12-2019 20:04
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021488)
I certainly haven't said that Netflix and Amazon are immune to the moves towards the direct to customer approach. That's just you saying that. The point has been made repeatedly that Netflix is already having to give up its Disney content.

As far as the Premiership rights are concerned, Sky have already made it clear that they are not going to keep paying more in real terms for them. This, together with increasing interest being taken by the streamers, I wouldn't bank on Sky holding onto these rights forever.

Of course, the Comcast takeover of Sky was not by chance - again, who said it was? Murdoch got out while he still could on his terms.

The Amazon retail operation is an additional string to their bow that the other streamers and broadcasters do not have. Obviously, nothing is guaranteed - good decisions and good financial management are essential.
Is there a source for this? I’ve not seen anything, ever, that suggests Sky aren’t intending to keep making competitive bids for what is ultimately the jewel in the crown of UK sports rights.

muppetman11 29-12-2019 20:52
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Interestingly for all the money Netflix lumps into its own original movies there's only 3 out of the Top 10 Films section in the UK Today.

Clearly many prefer its third party content which will be interesting when this starts to disappear.

denphone 29-12-2019 21:00
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021497)
Interestingly for all the money Netflix lumps into its own original movies there's only 3 out of the Top 10 Films section in the UK Today.

Clearly many prefer its third party content which will be interesting when this starts to disappear.
Spending money willy nilly is basically covering over something with a sticking plaster but one can only do that in the short term as long term has Netflix got a answer when much of its third party content it currently shows disappears behind their rivals paywalls.

Chris 30-12-2019 00:32
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021497)
Interestingly for all the money Netflix lumps into its own original movies there's only 3 out of the Top 10 Films section in the UK Today.

Clearly many prefer its third party content which will be interesting when this starts to disappear.
As of right now, 7 out of the all-categories top 10 are carrying the N logo, which denotes that Netflix is at the very least the exclusive distributor in the UK, though it may also be the commissioner. Five of the top 10 are serials, all of which are either distributed or outright commissioned by Netflix. Of these, two run to multiple seasons.

It’s a common misconception that streaming services are all about the movies - actually they are more interested in successful drama franchises because subsequent seasons of successful shows are a banker. They do go looking for low budget films produced by big Hollywood names who tend to be better known for acting but want to get in to directing or producing because they get a big name at relatively low cost but these really are schedule fillers (in broadcast parlance).

pip08456 30-12-2019 01:31
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
That's it though, the "N" logo realy only means Netflix is the UK distributer and nothing else.

It doesn't really matter though, the rise of streamers over the next couple of years will be a bit of a turmoil as each find their niche.

In truth I think it will take 10 yrs until things settle down and expect to see different companies ie Disney+ and WB merging their content.

OLD BOY 30-12-2019 09:49
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36021498)
Spending money willy nilly is basically covering over something with a sticking plaster but one can only do that in the short term as long term has Netflix got a answer when much of its third party content it currently shows disappears behind their rivals paywalls.
Hardly a sticking plaster, Den! The key to success for any streamer is original content. Sure, there is a lot of interest in archive material, but as you yourself have acknowledged, undue reliance on that by Britbox will not do anything for its popularity with potential subscribers.

Netflix is aware that the 'direct to consumer' approach increasingly being taken by owners of content will deplete its library of older material, which is why it is investing so heavily in original films and TV series. It must continue to do this in the short to medium term to stay ahead of the competition. As the market leader, it can afford to do this, but of course these eye-watering levels of investment will have to be scaled back at some stage in the future to ensure the financial stability of the company.

Chris 30-12-2019 10:31
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36021509)
That's it though, the "N" logo realy only means Netflix is the UK distributer and nothing else.

It doesn't really matter though, the rise of streamers over the next couple of years will be a bit of a turmoil as each find their niche.

In truth I think it will take 10 yrs until things settle down and expect to see different companies ie Disney+ and WB merging their content.
It can mean distributor only, but they use the same logo on the stuff they’ve actually commissioned themselves. The Crown, Witcher and Lost In Space are all Netflix commissions (even though LIS was in independent development before Netflix picked it up).

I agree we’re in for a few years of turmoil and I don’t think the emerging model of individual studios selling their content direct to consumers is sustainable. What’s emerging is a whole pile of premium services that will be too expensive for most people to take all of them.

1andrew1 30-12-2019 11:09
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
I think in the UK, things are better for Netflix as it's only really Universal and Disney of the big studios here who are pulling their content from the streamers and even then, we don't know if that's 100% of it. Hence Friends will be on Netflix for some time!
That's not to undermine the potential removal of any BBC or ITV content from Netflix but I suspect that's less attractive in the UK as many will have viewed it through other platforms first.

muppetman11 30-12-2019 11:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
To be fair many of the BBC shows are in Neflix's most watched lists.

jfman 30-12-2019 11:45
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021525)
Hardly a sticking plaster, Den! The key to success for any streamer is original content. Sure, there is a lot of interest in archive material, but as you yourself have acknowledged, undue reliance on that by Britbox will not do anything for its popularity with potential subscribers.

Netflix is aware that the 'direct to consumer' approach increasingly being taken by owners of content will deplete its library of older material, which is why it is investing so heavily in original films and TV series. It must continue to do this in the short to medium term to stay ahead of the competition. As the market leader, it can afford to do this, but of course these eye-watering levels of investment will have to be scaled back at some stage in the future to ensure the financial stability of the company.
Old Boy showing his true colours here. These aren’t football teams you develop undying loyalty to. Regardless of circumstance Netflix are always right.

Developing it’s own back catalogue at “eye watering” levels is actually quite reckless. Everyone in the supply chain knows how desperate they are and they have the chequebook out - this drives up supply side costs.

What is also ignored is that existing back catalogues of content have been put through the wringer multiple times on various distribution platforms and have developed over time. There’s plenty of garbage that’s come and gone over the decades - Netflix has absolutely no way of telling what will stand the test of time and what will sink without trace.

OLD BOY 30-12-2019 13:58
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021539)
Old Boy showing his true colours here. These aren’t football teams you develop undying loyalty to. Regardless of circumstance Netflix are always right.

Developing it’s own back catalogue at “eye watering” levels is actually quite reckless. Everyone in the supply chain knows how desperate they are and they have the chequebook out - this drives up supply side costs.

What is also ignored is that existing back catalogues of content have been put through the wringer multiple times on various distribution platforms and have developed over time. There’s plenty of garbage that’s come and gone over the decades - Netflix has absolutely no way of telling what will stand the test of time and what will sink without trace.
Yes, well I guess we will always be able to rely on you for your doom and gloom attitude. Netflix will still be going quite nicely by 2035, which is more than we can say for our conventional scheduled channels.

I mean, reckless ? Really? Reckless is sitting on your laurels and watching your content being steadily taken away. The Netflix Originals are designed to replace that content. Yes, it's costly, but once they judge that their library is sufficiently attractive to ensure its position as market leader is secured, it will be able to reduce its spending on originals and start reducing its level of debt from subscriptions. This is a long-term project.

No doubt, had you been giving advice in Sky's early days, you would have been speculating heavily on their demise as well. You severely underestimate the determination and imagination of business to succeed. Netflix is going nowhere (but up) in my lifetime and is almost without doubt here for the long term.

jfman 30-12-2019 14:58
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021557)
Yes, well I guess we will always be able to rely on you for your doom and gloom attitude. Netflix will still be going quite nicely by 2035, which is more than we can say for our conventional scheduled channels.
That’s entirely speculative given their debt. You are at the front of the queue to tell us how there will be a plethora of streamers, or for ease I’ll call them “Netflix alternatives” ready to join the market.

Quote:
I mean, reckless ? Really? Reckless is sitting on your laurels and watching your content being steadily taken away. The Netflix Originals are designed to replace that content. Yes, it's costly, but once they judge that their library is sufficiently attractive to ensure its position as market leader is secured, it will be able to reduce its spending on originals and start reducing its level of debt from subscriptions. This is a long-term project.
Only if the consumer judges the content to be sufficiently attractive will they be the market leader. Can they do that and service their debt against all this competition? A massive question mark that many hold.

Quote:
No doubt, had you been giving advice in Sky's early days, you would have been speculating heavily on their demise as well.
I’m going to straight bat your straw man here and not play the ball.

Quote:
You severely underestimate the determination and imagination of business to succeed. Netflix is going nowhere (but up) in my lifetime and is almost without doubt here for the long term.
Here we go folks. Business can succeed on imagination alone. Forget everything you know about competition, costs, revenues, profits, just imagine success and it’ll happen!

I’ll categorically say Netflix as it stands now won’t exist in 2035 without being acquired by a major content provider or merging with one. Everyone expects the market to consolidate and Netflix has nothing unique except for its debt.

OLD BOY 30-12-2019 16:05
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021563)
That’s entirely speculative given their debt. You are at the front of the queue to tell us how there will be a plethora of streamers, or for ease I’ll call them “Netflix alternatives” ready to join the market.


Only if the consumer judges the content to be sufficiently attractive will they be the market leader. Can they do that and service their debt against all this competition? A massive question mark that many hold.
Er, they are the market leader. And even Disney, popular as they are, will have some considerable way to catch up before they pose the slightest threat to the dominance of Netflix.

Netflix is the streamer of choice for most, and it is you who is speculating because without adequate justification, you are predicting their demise.

---------- Post added at 15:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021563)

I’m going to straight bat your straw man here and not play the ball.
Ergo, you don't want to answer the question!

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021563)


Here we go folks. Business can succeed on imagination alone. Forget everything you know about competition, costs, revenues, profits, just imagine success and it’ll happen!

I’ll categorically say Netflix as it stands now won’t exist in 2035 without being acquired by a major content provider or merging with one. Everyone expects the market to consolidate and Netflix has nothing unique except for its debt.
Rupert Murdoch had the vision to ensure that his Sky project worked. A common feature of a successful entrepreneur is that they have vision.

Wishful thinking does not come into it, and once again, jfman, you are deliberately trying to twist my comments to mean something else.

There are different strategies Netflix could employ if it needed more income streams. Examples include carriage deals for selected shows to other content providers, additional pay-per view options, and even of course an advertisement funded option (although up until now, the CEO has ruled that out). The problem with your forecasts is that they are based on straight line projections and no interventions to change course or innovate.

We will see whose prediction comes true in 2035, but I suspect you will have scarpered from these forums long before then! :D

jfman 30-12-2019 16:20
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
They may well be the market leader due to first mover advantage, however there's a huge graveyard of visionary companies who couldn't adapt to a competitive marketplace.

I'm quite sure I'll be here in 2035, if only to keep track of how often you move the goalposts between now and then.

OLD BOY 30-12-2019 16:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021570)
They may well be the market leader due to first mover advantage, however there's a huge graveyard of visionary companies who couldn't adapt to a competitive marketplace.

I'm quite sure I'll be here in 2035, if only to keep track of how often you move the goalposts between now and then.
My goalposts are fixed. I'm afraid that your approach is always to take the contrary view.

denphone 30-12-2019 16:37
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021570)
They may well be the market leader due to first mover advantage, however there's a huge graveyard of visionary companies who couldn't adapt to a competitive marketplace.

I'm quite sure I'll be here in 2035, if only to keep track of how often you move the goalposts between now and then.
Blockbuster were a visionary company when they had most of the market share in their day until other competitors came along and overtook them and whittled down their market share to diddly squat.

Look what happened to them......

OB would be wise not to underestimate market forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_LLC

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021571)
My goalposts are fixed. I'm afraid that your approach is always to take the contrary view.
Fixed goalposts are no good if you can't put the ball in the net..;)

jfman 30-12-2019 16:56
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36021575)
Blockbuster were a visionary company when they had most of the market share in their day until other competitors came along and overtook them and whittled down their market share to diddly squat.

Look what happened to them......

OB would be wise not to underestimate market forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_LLC

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------



Fixed goalposts are no good if you can't put the ball in the net..;)
Indeed. And if we look at media ownership 20 years ago compared to today, it’s massively different. AOL for instance once valued at $222bn ended up purchased by Verizon in 2015 for a mere $4.4bn. If you can’t continue to offer a cutting edge going forward it’s your business model under the gun. Not the “vision” you had fifteen years earlier.

If you want some more fun, albeit in a different sector, BlackBerry Ltd (formerly Research in Motion) are worth a look at their demise from a once mighty position in the market.

It is therefore with some irony that Old Boy accuses me of being the one lacking vision and assuming nothing will change.

The question for Netflix will be what does it offer that everyone else doesn’t?

muppetman11 30-12-2019 17:18
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36021575)
Blockbuster were a visionary company when they had most of the market share in their day until other competitors came along and overtook them and whittled down their market share to diddly squat.

Look what happened to them......

OB would be wise not to underestimate market forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_LLC

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------



Fixed goalposts are no good if you can't put the ball in the net..;)
I agree with a lot of the points made here.

OLD BOY 30-12-2019 19:09
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36021575)
Fixed goalposts are no good if you can't put the ball in the net..;)
A poor footballer always blamesthemoving goalposts....

---------- Post added at 19:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021578)
Indeed. And if we look at media ownership 20 years ago compared to today, it’s massively different. AOL for instance once valued at $222bn ended up purchased by Verizon in 2015 for a mere $4.4bn. If you can’t continue to offer a cutting edge going forward it’s your business model under the gun. Not the “vision” you had fifteen years earlier.

If you want some more fun, albeit in a different sector, BlackBerry Ltd (formerly Research in Motion) are worth a look at their demise from a once mighty position in the market.

It is therefore with some irony that Old Boy accuses me of being the one lacking vision and assuming nothing will change.

The question for Netflix will be what does it offer that everyone else doesn’t?
Of course things change, and successful companies adapt, just as Netflix adapted from its DVD rental beginnings.

The problem I see with your arguments is you only ever see things going one way - down the proverbial shute. You appear to have little regard to the power of innovation to meet what you deduce are immovable obstacles to progress.

It is fair enough to point to the huge debt that Netflix has, and continues to accrue. But to be so cock sure that they will never come out of the other side shows a lack of flexibility of thought on your part.

Whilst I cannot rule out that Netflix could fail in the end, nor can you rule out that they may well succeed.

jfman 30-12-2019 19:18
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021592)
A poor footballer always blamesthemoving goalposts....

---------- Post added at 19:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------



Of course things change, and successful companies adapt, just as Netflix adapted from its DVD rental beginnings.

The problem I see with your arguments is you only ever see things going one way - down the proverbial shute. You appear to have little regard to the power of innovation to meet what you deduce are immovable obstacles to progress.

It is fair enough to point to the huge debt that Netflix has, and continues to accrue. But to be so cock sure that they will never come out of the other side shows a lack of flexibility of thought on your part.

Whilst I cannot rule out that Netflix could fail in the end, nor can you rule out that they may well succeed.
You don't sound as confident as you did a mere half a dozen posts ago.

On the contrary Old Boy it is you who consistently only sees things one way. Streaming is the future. Death to linear television. The date slides, as with every generation of Nostradamus books but the core message is the same.

I on the other hand see a rich and diverse future, with more ways than ever before for people to enjoy television. Linear. PVR. On Demand. Streaming. These are truly the halcyon days of television - you should sit back and enjoy it more rather than offer us doom and gloom about how our TV packages will become worthless and we will need to subscribe to half a dozen streamers at greater cost just to enjoy the content we get now!

denphone 30-12-2019 19:28
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36021581)
I agree with a lot of the points made here.
A good read and l too agree with many of his points.

OLD BOY 30-12-2019 19:37
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36021598)
You don't sound as confident as you did a mere half a dozen posts ago.

On the contrary Old Boy it is you who consistently only sees things one way. Streaming is the future. Death to linear television. The date slides, as with every generation of Nostradamus books but the core message is the same.

I on the other hand see a rich and diverse future, with more ways than ever before for people to enjoy television. Linear. PVR. On Demand. Streaming. These are truly the halcyon days of television - you should sit back and enjoy it more rather than offer us doom and gloom about how our TV packages will become worthless and we will need to subscribe to half a dozen streamers at greater cost just to enjoy the content we get now!
I am confident that Netflix will succeed. I am just acknowledging that failure is a remote possibility.

If the range of TV choices is what you and others want, then I hope for your sakes that it comes about. I don't have anything against that. I am simply pointing out that rationalisation is far more likely as demand for traditional TV continues to decline.

You're the economics guy. You tell me why content providers should continue to provide all these channels in the longer term. It's all very well you saying they can be run on a shoestring, but you can't do that with decent content. Whilst it's true that content providers need to pay anyway for their VOD content, they have to pay separately to screen that content on live TV. I just cannot see how that would be worthwhile. In the end, only the most efficient providers with quality content will survive. Why would they want to saddle themselves with unnecessary cost and effort?

Raider999 30-12-2019 20:12
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36021605)
I am confident that Netflix will succeed. I am just acknowledging that failure is a remote possibility.

If the range of TV choices is what you and others want, then I hope for your sakes that it comes about. I don't have anything against that. I am simply pointing out that rationalisation is far more likely as demand for traditional TV continues to decline.

You're the economics guy. You tell me why content providers should continue to provide all these channels in the longer term. It's all very well you saying they can be run on a shoestring, but you can't do that with decent content. Whilst it's true that content providers need to pay anyway for their VOD content, they have to pay separately to screen that content on live TV. I just cannot see how that would be worthwhile. In the end, only the most efficient providers with quality content will survive. Why would they want to saddle themselves with unnecessary cost and effort?
According to viewing figures shown some hundreds of posts ago, there are many channels that exist on very low numbers so what makes you think they will all suddenly disappear?


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