Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

So easy on paper, for your fictional, hypothetical deep pocket streamer.

However in the real world they’d need 5 million subscribers to switch on day one. Is the EPL that popular on it’s own? Probably not. Not 12 months of the year anyway.

Suddenly they are either putting their hands back in their pockets for more rights or having to recover the costs over 10 months. Six million subscribers at a higher price point than Sky Sports.

As the forum resident economist I have to say I side with all the bean counters at actual streamers and decide that’s not the best use of funds.

Every day losing money from Day 1 is a day less than 3 years to recover within the rights window.

I’ve said before if the EPL are genuine about trying to drum up interest a five or ten year rights window gives a new entrant more time to build their business model. If it were truly that easy to move Sky’s customer base someone would have done it. Years ago.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

The channel upgrade app is now allowing upgrades to Premier Sports, LaLiga TV & Box Nation for £12.99 a month

Box Nation was previously standalone on Virgin

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Makes sense.

BoxNation is now just a brand used by Premier Sports. The previous company running the channel, Boxing Channel Media Ltd, established by Frank Warren, was placed into liquidation in December 2019.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Are you seriously trying to tell us that those who subscribe to Sky Sports for the football won’t change their subscription on day one if the EPL was pulled from Sky to be shown on the streamers?

You underestimate the enthusiasm of football fans.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Some will. However what isn’t clear is how many and their willingness to pay given Sky is sold as a bundle.

You’re making the false assumption everyone has unlimited disposable income.

As I’ve said before if it was that easy why hasn’t it happened before? ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN UK (the first time) are all in the graveyard of potential Sky competitors. None lacked access to investment. What makes streamers exempt from the economics that failed these business models?

If it was that easy why would there not be a queue of streamers auction after auction causing the value of the rights to spiral out of control? At some point one of them has to fail because their predecessor had the perfect business model to bid the most yet still extract value for their shareholders. What makes you think that company isn’t Sky? After all - they are a streamer via Now TV. So there’s no new market to target.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Absolutely, until now it has been a part of the Premier bundle on other platforms finally it is the same on Virgin

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Don’t be daft, jfman - pretty well all football fans will transfer. Football is what excites them and they go where the football is.

You keep saying if it was that easy, why have they not done it before, but as I said above, that is a ridiculous statement to make, which assumes that nothing changes. Streamed football is not without its problems, including latency, broadband rollout and broadband connectivity and speed, and this would explain why the streamers have not gone in big time yet.

However, as Disney looks to the sports offering that will appeal to UK viewers for its sports stream, as Discovery+ looks for something to attract more subscribers with an interest in sport to bolster Eurosport and as Amazon pore over the results of its experiment with the EPL, there is a significant shift in circumstances that might yet lead to a bid by one of the streamers.

You seem to think that Sky has some magical quality that enables the company to make a profit when others cannot. You have not explained why you think that, and it doesn’t make sense. Citing a few failures by other companies doesn’t cut it. There is a profit to be made here, and the big hitting global streamers ain’t done yet. Watch this space.

Of course Sky can make a bid and screen the football on its streamer (although Now is not the most sophisticated of streamers around). But it will face competition from the other streamers, and if it bids too low because it has concluded the same as you, it might have a shock coming.

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------

If your bundle has Sky Sports in it, you are having to pay a shedload more every month than if you were not bothered about sport.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Another telecoms company retrenches from broadcasting to focus on its core business.
https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2021...ark-this-year/

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------

I buy into the argument about sport being more valuable to Sky than as a stand-alone product from another company as it generates a range of other services - broadband, entertainment package, mobile and possibly movies too. However, companies like ESPN and Setanta were previously just selling sports packages and Sky had a monopoly on a lot of film and entertainment content, even if it allowed VM to wholesale it.

However, two things are changing in the landscape.

1. Sport now has the option of being sold as an add-on to Disney +. In the future, the same may be the case for HBO+ and Eurosport. So an investment in Premier League rights flows through to more than just a tenner a month for a stand-alone sports channel, it flows through to an investment in a whole package.

2. There hasn't been a content provider that you can substitute for Sky. If you're serious about TV as VM is, you need to have Sky's channels. However, this is being chipped away with Disney taking back its content and Warner Discovery likely to follow suit. This therefore erodes Sky's unique position and Disney+ or HBO+ with a Premier League sports offering such a breadth and depth of content be a viable substitute for Sky.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

A projection not grounded in any economic theory whatsoever.

If football fans will migrate to any package, at any price, surely Sky would just continue to price gouge them?

There comes a breaking point due to the basic principles of supply and demand.

Aha! Once again you see streaming as a distinct market from television as a whole. The same basic principles you discussed above - fans follow the football wherever it will go - would apply to a standalone football channel on satellite, cable, digital terrestrial and dare I say it even streaming.

The cost of operating a channel on this basis is truly buttons compared to the £5bn cost of the rights.



This time next year we will be millionaires, Rodney

If by "a few failures" you mean literally everyone else to have entered the market to date.

I'd contest that it is you that seems to think that streamers have some magical quality whereby the basics of economics do not apply to them.

Sky judged the market perfectly in 2019, and the EPL are running scared they would do the same in 2022.

Why would a rational customer in the marketplace subscribe to a bundle with Sky Sports if they don't want Sky Sports?

If someone doesn't want all the other tosh, but it wants Sky Sports they can buy Now TV. A streaming product from Sky.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I didn’t say ‘at any price’. I’m not sure where your figures are coming from - they are highly suspect IMHO.

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:56 ----------

Yes, we are talking about the likelihood or otherwise of streamers entering the market for EPL. Of course the audience will follow the footie no matter how it is delivered. I never said otherwise.

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:59 ----------

Typical of you to scoff instead of actually addressing the point. A similar point to the one made by Andrew, incidentally.

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Yes. But the fact that they failed doesn’t mean that any operator would fail.

Sky can make it work, proving that it is possible if you know what you’re doing.

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No, I don’t. What, you’re a mind reader as well as an alleged economist now, are you?

Despite your repeated claim that the delayed auction was nothing to do with the uncertainties arising from COVID, that is precisely the reason given in the application to the government, which was accepted. You may think you know better, but you really don’t.

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That’s not an argument I made.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Go on then have a stab at dividing £5 billion quid by any monthly fee and any set number of subscribers. I'll even forget VAT for now.

Both I, and seemingly whoever handles the calculators at every streaming service going, think it doesn't work.

However not at any cost.
Yet nobody else bids, despite sitting on piles and piles of cash. Proving they dont think it's a valuable use of £5bn.

Well yes, you do. It's the common thread around almost every single post you make.

Economics 101 tells you everyone is out there to make a profit. And at some point the market reaches an equilibrium. People are no longer willing to pay any more.

Either after 19 years Sky haven't found the equilibrium or streamers can package their services to additional customers that Sky cannot - which is impossible as anyone outside the Sky footprint - DTH, cable or via Now TV would be unable to access a rival streaming service

Uncertainties over the value of the rights, Old Boy. Try to read it with an open mind. I've already posted the hundreds of billions that streamers and social media companies are sitting on. Yet something puts them (and the accountants at the EPL) off and it's not access to capital.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I guess I am not the only one that avoids any package that offers 1. Sport 2. Movies . Have premier for one reason only pro 14/16 rugby. When that goes so do I :D

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

What's to stop the Premier League going alone globally longer term ?

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

If it’s as easy as OB makes out, nothing. Money for old rope. Why involve a middle man?

Could even be technology agnostic and broadcast in Ultra HD to Sky/Virgin customers until broadband networks are up to scratch.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

By your reckoning, Sky couldn’t be making a profit, which is demonstrably untrue. The delay in the streamers jumping on board has nothing to do with the money, anyway.

Even when presented with the facts that render your arguments incorrect (ie what the Premier League actually stated) you still carry on. You are cynical about absolutely everything and this leads to you coming to preposterous conclusions.

I’ll leave you to it.