Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34128188)

if you know the SMTP server of the sender, and check the IP address of that server against the links below, you may get a vlue.

Spamcop here
Spamhaus here

Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by Tiko (Post 34129213)

Thanks Toto. That does help a little and having found this forum I was beginning to pick up that much.

So ntl could say the emails will be discarded if they come from a server with an IP address on X or Y blocklists.

What I was getting at is why couldn't ntl make it easy to find out that they use block lists and tell us which ones so that we can check for ourselves if mail is likely to be missing. Up to now I only have the info on this forum to say this is what happens.
Can I accept your answer as the definitive and up to date list of blocklists used by ntl? and which of the various lists at Spamhaus, say, is it ntl uses ? Are you privy to ntl policy and practice on this issue ? With what authority ?

The last time I checked Spamhaus and spamcop did not show any block but uceprotect.net showed a level 3 block on 81.103.221.10. I am once again receiving emails from wanadoo so this seems to have been cleared although I have not checked whether the block has cleared. It would seem that uceprotect is the latest used by NTL.
Spamhause own site says:
"We ask, but do not require, that all ISPs using the SBL and/or XBL inform customers of the fact you run spam filters (simply because it is the correct thing to do). Use of known-to-be-effective spam blocklists is normally seen as a service advantage and strong sales point. All SBL and XBL Users are welcome to use the email protected by SBL and XBL web badges on sites"

By giving the option of having some SPAM marked and directed to a particular mail folder and saying nothing of emails being rejected ntl gives the impression that no emails are being discarded even before that stage.

If emails coming from IPs on the spamhaus/spamcop lists are discarded outright before the end user gets the chance to see it, then which SPAM is marked and put under the end user control if that option is chosen ?


I must admit that although I can see arguments both ways the risk of losing good emails (and not even knowing about it) seems to outway the benefits of this method of fighting unwanted email and I want to know what the risk is before signing up for a package which includes email.

Any comment on the crass response from ntl to my enquiry ?
You, presumably not employed by ntl and paid to help their potential customers, have done more than their staff to give me info about their system. Quite honestly that response is enough to put me off them without even getting the info about their email handling.

I need to check out this Brightmail thing as well.

---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------



I understand that you were trying to be helpful - but ...

How would I know the SMTP server of the sender of an email I don't even know I haven't received because it has been completely silently discarded with no info to the sender or intended recipient?

Originally Posted by jackclare (Post 34129300)

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

Seem to have made a mess of this reply. However , the last time I looked spamhaus and spamcop showed no block but uceprotect.net showed a level3 block on 81.103.221.10. Messages are now coming through but it looks as though this is another agent being used by NTL

Originally Posted by Tiko (Post 34129213)

Thanks Toto. That does help a little and having found this forum I was beginning to pick up that much.

So ntl could say the emails will be discarded if they come from a server with an IP address on X or Y blocklists.

What I was getting at is why couldn't ntl make it easy to find out that they use block lists and tell us which ones so that we can check for ourselves if mail is likely to be missing. Up to now I only have the info on this forum to say this is what happens.
Can I accept your answer as the definitive and up to date list of blocklists used by ntl? and which of the various lists at Spamhaus, say, is it ntl uses ? Are you privy to ntl policy and practice on this issue ? With what authority ?

Spamhause own site says:
"We ask, but do not require, that all ISPs using the SBL and/or XBL inform customers of the fact you run spam filters (simply because it is the correct thing to do). Use of known-to-be-effective spam blocklists is normally seen as a service advantage and strong sales point. All SBL and XBL Users are welcome to use the email protected by SBL and XBL web badges on sites"

By giving the option of having some SPAM marked and directed to a particular mail folder and saying nothing of emails being rejected ntl gives the impression that no emails are being discarded even before that stage.

If emails coming from IPs on the spamhaus/spamcop lists are discarded outright before the end user gets the chance to see it, then which SPAM is marked and put under the end user control if that option is chosen ?


I must admit that although I can see arguments both ways the risk of losing good emails (and not even knowing about it) seems to outway the benefits of this method of fighting unwanted email and I want to know what the risk is before signing up for a package which includes email.

Any comment on the crass response from ntl to my enquiry ?
You, presumably not employed by ntl and paid to help their potential customers, have done more than their staff to give me info about their system. Quite honestly that response is enough to put me off them without even getting the info about their email handling.

I need to check out this Brightmail thing as well.

---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------



I understand that you were trying to be helpful - but ...

How would I know the SMTP server of the sender of an email I don't even know I haven't received because it has been completely silently discarded with no info to the sender or intended recipient?

Originally Posted by Tiko (Post 34129650)

Toto
====
That is something - even if ordinary email users do not know how many emails are going undelivered our technical guardians do - but do they do anything about it?

I have yet to see any evidence that ntl technical support have any knowledge of the process (based on response or lack of to my enquiry)

I don't know about these lists being dynamic especially reading this bit on SORBS website
=================================

Please note that entries in the SORBS DUHL never expire, not even the entries we inherited from Easynet NL Dynablock. We always require contact from the network owner for modifications.
=================================

This relates to (for example)
Netblock: 82.1.32.0/19 (82.1.32.0-82.1.63.255)
Record Created: Thu Sep 16 13:37:21 2004 GMT
Record Updated: Thu Sep 16 13:37:21 2004 GMT
Additional Information: Dynamic/Generic IP/rDNS address, use your ISPs mail server or get rDNS set to indicate static assignment.
Currently active and flagged to be published in DNS

These are IPs allocated by ntl to their users on the SORBS list since 2004 if I am reading this correctly. (I know this is the other side of the coin - potential blocking of mail going out from ntl users but it makes the point.)

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Tiko (Post 34129650)

Toto
====
---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

jackclare
=======

You certainly did mess up that last message. In fact you "put words in my mouth" by inserting text in the middle of my quoted message - any chance that you could do the decent thing and edit it please?

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34129388)

So whilst the intended recipient of the email will not know that a mail sent to them has failed due to blocking, the sender of that email, or their network operator should.

.