Re: Brexit discussion
 

Agreed, i didn't say you did mention hoovers, anyway I think we've covered most models now. :)

Good to see you and MrK agree on the merits of dust pans.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You're a sucker for a new thread. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But he needs to promise there won't be any dust ups :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Let's not brush any controversy under the carpet though. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

yes that would be dyson with death for the thread.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well we had a Vax and one or two other brands and they certainly don't measure up to a Dyson but each to their own likes and dislikes.:)

---------- Post added at 04:25 ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 ----------

Well Mick we are going out whether it is for better or for worse as no one knows exactly how the game will play out as they say.:)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sorry, just catching up here. If you go WTO, it's not just the costs of the tariffs which will be borne by the customer, it's the non-tariff barriers to trade we really need to look out for.

Here's an article for example on the concerns for Dover - https://www.ft.com/content/f308e8bc-...c-9588e51488a0

The HMRC does not think it will be ready for the sheer volume of customs checks needed for cross channel trade. On top of this is the potential divergence of standards between the EU and UK. If we start to separate ourselves from EU standards, then the EU will require inspections to ensure conformity to their standards to make sure we don't sneak a bendy banana or 2kW vacuum cleaner over the water.

This will suddenly affect 44% of our exports and 53% of our imports where before, it was frictionless.

Of course, we do this for the current 56% and 47% but this is an effective doubling of the load on customs and regulatory agencies.

In addition, to customs and conformity, it will seriously affect manufacturer supply chains. Manufacturers warehouse materials with hours worth of stock and rely on a smooth supply chain for efficient running. Delays of a few hours of delivery of materials can shut down production. This worries car manufacturers for example.

Finally, we can't ignore the 'Rotterdam Effect' and non-EU imports through ports not in the UK but in the EU. Joining the WTO tariff plan will remove EU ports from the equation..

Think tanks like Economists For Brexit have proposed zero import tariffs as a libertarian response but this still doesn't answer the question of conformity and traceability (plus zero import tariffs will destroy what's lefts of our manufacturing and agriculture)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Thanks.

Think I made the point earlier that it's very confusing that on one hand HMG are claiming to be ready for any result while on the other they are making no substantial preparations. When talking about doubling load you have to also remember that the load is unevenly spread - ports like Dover where the vast majority, 80-90%+, of imports are from within the customs union need quadrupling of customs capacity and so far nothing has been done.

In other news a little reminder that, for all the rhetoric, neither Juncker or the Commission get to decide what happens within the EU, the member states via their MEPs and heads of government do - paywalled:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ears-3v6v3vnqf



---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------

On the flip side of that, however, are hardline leavers who won't consider the possibility that we may be worse out. It's impossible to say unequivocally that the UK would benefit either way, however the weight of forecasts from those who should, in theory, be unbiased leans heavily towards the UK being economically worse off until at least 2030.

As I've said a couple of times it's noteworthy that neither of the two major leave campaigns attempted to campaign on economic grounds.

Whether the benefits of leaving the EU will balance this is probably subjective.

Extreme opinions from people willing to completely disregard any evidence that doesn't agree with their point of view abound on both sides of the argument with zero possibility of being dissuaded so it's a busted flush as far as discussion goes.

I'm not going to disagree with Dyson. He is not an unbiased observer in this - his issues with EU regulations governing his products are well known - but he is putting his money where his mouth is which should be respected.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You're not right. No where did I state I was a particular fan of the EU or the ECJ in fact truth be known I dislike them almost as much as our own politicians who we've decided to give up scrutinizing on the understanding that they've given their word they won't abuse the privilege

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Bonkers Boris has repeated the £350m for the NHS lie. More to do to with leadership ambitions than any desire to help the NHS, when did he last use it ? If there was any money it would of course go on tax cuts for high earners, who most need it. Great timing too, just after a terrorist attack. I think Kermit would make a better PM...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The man is a fool and even more he is a liar....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

For the benefit of Remoaners, this is a big picture not the big picture :monkey:.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Where would you spend the membership fee once we leave because that's what is happening, Mr K, we are leaving, so where should the money go?

Boris suggests most of it should go on the NHS, the membership fee needs to be spent on something. I am not sure what is wrong in him writing an article that was probably written before yesterday's events, hardly fair to blame that event on him.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It falls down with the figure for a start. We don't give £350m net to the EU. It's been explained many times but the cloth head has repeated it. He's either very stupid (most likely) or he thinks the British public is.