Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I do not see any of THIS in the teams post when speaking to you as they are not moderating you.

As I said above people who do not want to work or have no intention of ever working in their lifetime should not be given cash but vouchers as they have no need of money, and nor do they need a passport as they would have no money to travel abroad.:D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I think its worthwile remembering some things or having other facts as well about what fraud actually costs the tax payer money , yes benefits need to be sorted but Tax evasion costs the tax payer around 15 times more than benefit fraud.

from the most recent data 2008 - 2009 as 2009 - 2010 has not yet been made availible publicly in pdf yet.

Tax evasion = £15 billion per year
Benefit fraud = £1 billion.

To put that in perspective...

Tax evasion = 3% total tax liabilities
Benefit fraud = 0.8% of total benefit payments

Financial services industry fraud = £3.8 billion
Mortgage fraud = £1 billion
Insurance fraud = £2 billion
Share sale fraud and public lottery / loan scams= £3.5 billion

All actual figures from 2008 - 2009 the most recent that the government use also here for FOI compliance and in pdf format direct from the Attorney General . gov .co.uk himself

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/nf..._indicator.pdf


but you will only hear 1 on the TV and in adverts with more spent on detection more than the others despite some that considering the bigger loss to the tax payer maybe should probably have more of the tax payers money spent getting those higher ones under control .

It doesnt matter which governments been in the proportion spent on detection has never been in proportion to the amount of loss to the tax payer.

Its also worthwhile remembering that the tax payer pays for all those losses / fraud and maybe that 8 billion of benefits go unclaimed by people that are genuinely entitled going by recent figures too , where do you think those go , are they ever made aware or made too embarrassed to claim what they paid into the system for many years by the stigma created by demonizing adverts .

I cant find a a breakdown of unclaimed here at the moment but from couple of years ago... its unlikely to be less


Unclaimed housing benefit / council tax / JSA / pension credit / other support = £8 bn
Unclaimed working tax credits = £5 bn

and they do back those figures up themselves , but you wont see all that or the bank bail outs as widely publiscised as the benefit fraud campaign by any government , never has been never will imo , stigmatize the benefits you pay for , keep those contributing the most fighting amongst themselves and pointing the finger to themselves and less claim the money that has been allocated

Only my opinion of course but its always piddled me off in a way that people in the UK never ever seem to get up in arms about the big big losses to their contributions to the country and always buy into the adverts that really account for so little especially when many many court cases of benefit fraud are also dropped after spending more than the loss .

There are also a massive amount of mistakes and over payments etc that cost more than the payment itself to get back if it ever is .

In my own opinion theres much much more to fraud and mistakes resulting in losses from the tax payer than the relatively small amount of benefit fraud the vast amount of it is also a percentage that will always exist in any sector and impossible to eradicate .

Id prefer it really that if more of my tax goes to help protect my tax from fraud then it gets spent on investigations proportionate to the fiddle rather than spent on adverts and investigations that always demonize the needy and scare others into not claiming

There may not be anything about the real fraud against the tax payer that the tax payer can actually ever do in the UK but although its a problem the girl that has just had a kid and been given a flat or the guy claiming really benefit and spending it on cheap tramp juice really really is not the biggest problem.

Beside which the days of moonlighting whilst signing have pretty much disappeared and those sort of people unless jobs reappear and the situation improve they can only shift from1 benefit to another with the end result back on benefits unless everyone wants loads of homeless roaming around committing crime .

Come on ffs start pointing the finger the right way and stop believing the ********e propaganda about the worse off.

The top few percent always manage to pull the wool over the tax payers eyes whilst they themselves evade as well as taking the highest wages before investing it all in theirs and their families futures elsewhere.

Will it change - probably not Cameron and Osbourne will just play exactly the same games and wont be in the UK after they have done their stint , the rest is pretty much the same as the Xfactor really , get the people to believe they can get as rich as the rich with talent / hard work and investing their own money in a voting system to select a winner who was never a nobody anyway and then fook off with the proceeds

smell the coffee!!

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Bless........:D

As I previously stated, high on amusement factor and vituperative diatribe, v. low on facts and common sense; your posts bring to mind Engels' Third Law of Dialectics.;)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Here we go, same old stuff, is this another of your many talents, picking out people who don't intend to work, as I've said before, where's the jobs? me and you won't be agreeing as I don't have the ability to pick out cradle-to-the-grave-scroungers, or those who do not want to work, I'm not militant red under the bed or any of the rest of the stuff you get out of the Sun or the News of the World, this isn't much of a site as it seems to be all virgin media staff posting threads,but i've never read so much right -wing drivel in years.

---------- Post added at 23:46 ---------- Previous post was at 23:36 ----------

Who is Engels? What is Dialectics? could Dialectics be, word of mouth? if so, is his third law about WRITTEN posts or have you just made this all up? you better forget the big words if you don't know what they mean.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

For the cognitively challenged members (that's the ones with one hemisphere less than most of us.):

Dialectic

Engels

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

don't have to go to your urls Dialects=A form of language SPOKEN in a particular Geographical area, anyway over and out, won't be on this site again,its full of b---------s, and they all seem to work for Virgin Media, (Mumbai branch).

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Bye bye! :wavey:

Oh, Hugh was talking about dialectics. Not dialects :)

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

You really do not have a clue do you as how the real world actually works at all, I as with many people know people that fit this criteria and have never worked nor have any intention of ever working, if you believe this not to be so then you are living in a dream world and must love the movie Vanilla Sky.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

What if it ends up costing more than the sum of the benefits paid out to find out? :erm:

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

Where to start where to start Tammac if you havn't met a cradle to the grave scrounger then you clearly don't get out much because even where i live in a small town i know at least five who no matter how good the job, how good the pay wouldn't touch it because it would mean actually getting up and doing something. Your quite good at throwing the closet tory insult around but here's the problem it wasn't the tories that put us in this mess it wasn't them who expanded the public sector to massive unsustainable size all for the sake of manipulating unemployment figures a practice which labour has a good track record of.

Bankers have some blame in all of this no doubt but again the labour party worshipped at the alter of bankers turned what little effective regulation there was into a total and utter joke and allowed the crisis to hit us harder then it ever should. No doubt i now fit your profile of right wing tory apologist and in some ways i am right wing in others left wing i choose what bests serves my personal beliefs. I am also a benefit claimant on incapacity benefit and unlikely to ever work again much to my personal shame and i am sick and tired of seeing the same old bunch of lead swingers constantly taking the system for a ride and turning what was once moderate public opinion into near hatred for claimants.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

If, is a big word.

There's a lot of things that could be put off by the word if.

Many of mans greatest achievements.

I don't care too much for ifs.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

come to work with me for one day and i will show hundreds i meet them every day and yes before you ask they all have bigger telly's than me
If you truly have never met a cradle to the grave scrounger then i would suggest that you either never leave the house or are one yourself

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

To have never met one he would have to be an agoraphobic.

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

I'm an aggrophobic..i hate any aggro

Quiet life for me :D

Re: Unemployed Families Face Cap On Benefits
 

yep, met a nice couple today who winged like a drain when they had to get out of bed before jeremy kyle had started ,winged even more because i unplugged the telly to plug my drills in