Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

In response to my point about it being a managerial decision on how to handle it depending on what actually occured, you said it wasn't a managerial decision, it was a point of law.


We're talking about someone overhearing a conversation which two people are involved in, ie the person making the comment and the person it is directed at, understand?

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

I think I'm still confused. No, actually I am still confused. :)

---------- Post added at 00:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:22 ----------

Possibly I've misunderstood or not made myself clear. You described asking the person to whom the comments had been made whether they were offended. How they felt about it is not the only consideration. They may have found the whole thing hilariously funny whilst the third person found it highly offensive. The third person's perception may be significant, whether the manager likes it or not.

Yes thank you. I've been quite clear on that right the way through. :)

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

There's been a misunderstanding :)
I said not just ask the person the comment was made to, but also ask the person (the 3rd party who wasn't involved in the comment making or receiving) why they found it offensive and why they think something should be done, and what should be done, considering the two people involved in the comments have no issue with it.

So if Jeff over hears Tony calling his good mate Bob "Sooty", and Jeff finds it offensive as he, like Bob, is of African origin and reports it to his manager/HR.
The manager checks with Bob and finds out Bob's had that nickname since he was 6 and Tony certainly didn't say it to be offensive.
This should be explained to Jeff, who most likely will understand that no offense was meant and not have a problem with it.
At no point should Tony be suspended.

Now lets say Jeff over hears Adolf calling Isaac a stinking Jew, so reports it to his manager. Isaac says he's not phased by it, Adolf is just a bigot and he doesn't let it bother him. The intent however was to insult and cause offence, as such Adolf should be disciplined for it.

While Tony isn't going to call anyone else Sooty because it's not their nickname, Adolf may say such things to any members of staff (or even customers) who are Jewish.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

I was just wondering whether there'd been a misunderstanding and in fact we were both in complete agreement. It seems that is exactly the case.

I concur - that's exactly how it should have been handled. It would have made for a far happier end to the event for everyone concerned.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

No, it is not assumed the he/she took offence to it. As a manager it is their job to investigate and challenge such behaviour. It is the job of management to ensure fairness in all situations and if this comment went unchallenged, it would send a message that management have no interest in ensuring that inappropriate language can play no part in working life.

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

Again, another assumption that the manager in question took offence, rather than actually doing their job.

---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

Indeed. It is entirely possible that this is not the first time an incident of this nature had occurred within the company. With the tragic news of this man's fate, it is now unlikely we shall ever know. If the company release any statement referring to any such incidents, they will most likely be accused of a smear campaign.

---------- Post added at 12:18 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

This is a typical device used by the Daily Heil in order to cover themselves from being accused of making things up. I am not necessarily saying that is the case here, but their track record speaks volumes.

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------

I am afraid that is not quite true. If ANY of my employees, black or white, used such language they would be facing disciplinary procedures. I do not bias my colleague relations policies to distinguish between "street talk" or "banter" and what is considered to be professional and appropriate language.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

Whoever it was that took offence and reported this was wrong to do so without doing a little questioning beforehand and i speak as someone that has been in this situation before and the issue was resolved with some quiet discrete talks between the parties involved with no bad feeling at the end of it. What we ultimately have here is another example of a culture that is growing in the UK and it is not a pleasant or enjoyable culture it is highly destructive and damaging to both individuals and institutions.

Once upon a time the UK was renowned for it's ability to handle situations with humour and banter between friends but now we have to be careful of the growing and ever present "i am ready to be offended on someone else's behalf" brigade that are infesting so many places. As for this man having underlying issue's and this single incident was the last straw, no not really this was a man who had worked all his life had built relationships clearly with his co worker's.

Maybe work formed a massive part of his life the threat of having that taken from him because of something so petty may well be all that was needed to send this individual into suicide. That is putting aside the fact that at 61 this guy wasn't likely to get further employment i think that is enough to send anyone over the edge.

If this was a case of someone commiting suicide because of continued and sustained offence from one to another no that would not be correct but also i doubt that such prolonged offence would have gone unnoticed and more then one person would have complained and appropriate action taken also not what happened in this case. In this case one person got offended on behalf of one other person and without using any brain power or common sense made a complaint and potentially massively affected this man.

It is time in this country for us to tell those looking to be offended to get stuffed and lets get back to those old days where friends could have a laugh and banter without one eye over their shoulder and back to the days where a conversation between two people stayed that way unless there was very very good reason for it not too which wasn't the case here.

We really have become a nation of cry baby's always looking for someone else to handle things for us and that is funnily enough the general creeping culture that follows a socialist government who take more time to interfere in the lifestyles of people rather then working to make the country better.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

The problem with such a principle is the message it sends. If such language is allowed to be used in a work environment it sends a signal to those who wish to use it to bully and prejudice. They will continue to use such language, safe in the knowledge that action will only be taken if their victim complains. As we well know, many bullying victims remain so because they are afraid to complain. In fact, that is how things used to be "in the bad old days," when things like this went on unpunished. Nothing happened until someone sees what is happening and complains on their behalf.

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 ----------

The trouble is that legislation was necessary to do so. Up until recently, racism and bullying was rife in the workplace and went unchallenged. It was wholly necessary to enact laws to protect the victims of such behaviour.

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

So people can bully with impunity, so long as their victims don't complain?

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

This is correct and should have happened. In fact it is entirely possible that it did happened and Mr Amor took offense and refused to cooperate, which could have been the real reason for his suspension.

In general terms, this is wrong. It is not incumbent for the recipient of such remarks to prove they are offended or not. It is, however, incumbent upon management to carry out their duties according their policies. A school teacher does not ask a child if he is being bullied, if they are certain bullying is taking place. If the victim is too scared to admit it, the bullying will continue.

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 ----------

As pointed out before, it is not.

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

But how does one judge whether that person's level of offence is relevant and who is truly qualified to decide? Surely the fact that one person found it offensive should be enough?

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

A truly short-sighted perspective.

Why on Earth would ever be considered racist?

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

What was there for ANYBODY to be offended about?

Even if the comment had been made in a serious manner, it could only be seen as being helpful advice to hide. It's not as if he was calling the immigration officers over to investigate the guy.:rolleyes:

There is not a general way in people that are offended can take action. Only members of 'privileged' groups are allowed to have action taken, and most of that is because those groups are told that they should take offence, and not because they are truly offended.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

Hardly "wrecking his life." Yes, a workplace suspension is a bit disruptive, humiliating and yes, very disturbing, but hardly life wrecking. The reasons for this man's decision to take his life was unlikely to be based on his relationship with his employer.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the part of my post you quoted.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

This bit:

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

I'm sick of people being offended. The idea that if you "offend" someone, that some kind of appeasement is neccessary really winds me up.

It's one of our freedoms. If someone is offended that's fine they can be offended.

It's a point of view, what you find offensive I may not, and vice versa.

Unless it is prescribed in law that the "offensive" act is illegal in any way, (which of course is different), Otherwise if anybody says to you "I find that offensive" say "good" and then tell them to F****ff

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

I hope the person who made this complaint is happy with the outcome.

Perhaps next time they wont stick their nose into something that doesnt concern them.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

But, as a manager, it did concern him.

Re: Politically Correct person makes man kill himself.
 

Where does it say that a manager initiated the complaint?