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-   -   Brown on the ropes? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33636225)

saabmania2 30-07-2008 18:17
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTOINE (Post 34611225)
Brown wont walk,

There's two years to the next GE. He'll stay and hope things are better by then.

This is the guy who has waited 10years to be PM, shunned an election when he knew there was a chance he might lose (I think he would have won - then)

It's Labour tax and spend. We didn't notice because the economy was good for 10 years (bequeathed to Mr Brown from Mssers Major & Clark).

However. when the S**t met the fan he has no money saved to help out. We have war on two fronts, we've (as usual) ploughed billions into the NHS unchecked. and everything else they've miscalculated.

If they'd been prudent during the good times we'd have some money in the kitty to reduce the tax of fuel -but the cupboard is bare.

I predict two more years of spending & borrowing to try and win votes, a Tory victory, realisation the economy is in the sh***r, hard choices to me made by the Tories to get the economy back shape, everybody blaming the Tories for the current situation when it was Labour who royally screwed it up.

Sound familiar anyone over 38?????????????
Hold on it sounds familiar to me and i'm 35, but your right give it 3 years when the Tories have been in a year and everyone will blame them as most can't remember further back than yesterday.:D
Brown should step down now and Labour be forced to hold a general election why should they be allowed to put 2 non-voted, unwanted idiots in.
bear in mind though if brown does step down, we could either end up with Harriet (should be mussled) Harmon , Alister (the fake) Darling or even worse David (i'm not listening) Miliband
None of which have, could or would be able to prove themselves worthy or competant for the PM postion, yet if GB did stand down we would end up with one of them.:mad:

RizzyKing 30-07-2008 18:41
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Thats why it is going to take a lot more then a change of leader for labour to turn things round we don't like brownshirt and we don't like any of the alternatives.

Osem 30-07-2008 21:01
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANTOINE (Post 34611225)
Brown wont walk,

There's two years to the next GE. He'll stay and hope things are better by then.

This is the guy who has waited 10years to be PM, shunned an election when he knew there was a chance he might lose (I think he would have won - then)

It's Labour tax and spend. We didn't notice because the economy was good for 10 years (bequeathed to Mr Brown from Mssers Major & Clark).

However. when the S**t met the fan he has no money saved to help out. We have war on two fronts, we've (as usual) ploughed billions into the NHS unchecked. and everything else they've miscalculated.

If they'd been prudent during the good times we'd have some money in the kitty to reduce the tax of fuel -but the cupboard is bare.

I predict two more years of spending & borrowing to try and win votes, a Tory victory, realisation the economy is in the sh***r, hard choices to me made by the Tories to get the economy back shape, everybody blaming the Tories for the current situation when it was Labour who royally screwed it up.

Sound familiar anyone over 38?????????????
I'm certain Brown will want to stay but he may not have a choice. Let's face it Milliband's recent statements when asked to endorse Brown as leader were rather less than fulsome weren't they. New Labour MP's have a choice - dither like their 'leader' for another 2 years and lose the next election or get shot of Brown asap and pray that his successor changes their fortunes. I think the latter option is the more likely right now.

sir_drinks_alot 30-07-2008 21:44
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
David Miliband is playing a very clever he's puting doubt in peoples minds about Brown's leadershi pgetting journalists in a dissy about a leadership contest but without saying it in direct fashion so when the times that Brown has to go he will be the strongest candidate

TheDaddy 30-07-2008 22:21
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_drinks_alot (Post 34611463)
David Miliband is playing a very clever he's puting doubt in peoples minds about Brown's leadershi pgetting journalists in a dissy about a leadership contest but without saying it in direct fashion so when the times that Brown has to go he will be the strongest candidate
Like people need 'doubt' put in their minds, his performance as PM has done far more to achieve that doubt than any mind game ever could

RizzyKing 30-07-2008 23:04
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
If they change leader AGAIN then no if's or buts we should have an election and thata will be the overwhelming cry from the public. Ignore that and whoever takes over is on a loser people were soured by brownshirt just walking into the job they won't accept it a second time.

Maggy 31-07-2008 00:21
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Miliband is a fool if he goes for the leadership because Labour are going to lose the next General Election and he won't want to be the losing leader of the party I'm sure.It would kill his political career.I think they will keep Brown for that reason.

Xaccers 31-07-2008 00:27
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
So, replace brown with a lame duck stool pidgeon, call an election, lose, new leadership contest, hope to get back on track for the next election?
To be honest, I can't think of anything better they could try.
Course this presumes they won't be knocked into 3rd place by the libdems at the next GE, which for some reason (no not just because NuLab suck so much), I don't think would be a bad thing for parliment and politics.

Sirius 31-07-2008 06:56
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34611502)
Like people need 'doubt' put in their minds, his performance as PM has done far more to achieve that doubt than any mind game ever could
:clap:

Osem 31-07-2008 09:08
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
I don't think we should forget that New Labour are facing total meltdown under Brown at the next election. Under such circumstances getting shot of him sooner rather than later could appeal to a large number of his ministers and MPs if only as the least worst option. Cast your minds back to the days of Thatcher and Major - who really thought he'd win the 1992 election after the Tory party turned on her in 1990??

Xaccers 31-07-2008 11:48
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 34611712)
I don't think we should forget that New Labour are facing total meltdown under Brown at the next election. Under such circumstances getting shot of him sooner rather than later could appeal to a large number of his ministers and MPs if only as the least worst option. Cast your minds back to the days of Thatcher and Major - who really thought he'd win the 1992 election after the Tory party turned on her in 1990??
In 92 Major was at the head of a government which was involved in a justifiable war against Iraq (bad man with beard and oil), and had a lot of support from the public, and the Heliograph.
As a voting nation, we appear to be conservative at heart (at least in England anyway), with the ethos that if you work hard you should be rewarded, and if you want a reward, you should work for it.
There was also the fear of Neil Kinnock being PM, something which probably accounts for such a high turn out and the Tories getting the largest number of votes for a single party in any GE.
While there was a recession, it appears the majority trusted the Tories more to get us through it than Labour, and evidently they were right.
NuLabour don't have that support, people don't trust them financially or politically.
While the Tories may have been busy screwing their secretaries, NuLabour have been busy screwing us, and I know which I'd prefer politicians to do!

punky 31-07-2008 12:35
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 34611642)
Miliband is a fool if he goes for the leadership because Labour are going to lose the next General Election and he won't want to be the losing leader of the party I'm sure.It would kill his political career.I think they will keep Brown for that reason.
It depends when.

If Milliband does succeed Brown now, he will just inherit Brown's problems and legacy, which will tarnish Milliband by association. By the time the election rolls around, things would be even worse and Milliband wouldn't stand a chance. What I suspect will happen is that Labour will wait until the latest posssible moment before the next election (a few months, give or take), when the least can go wrong, install Milliband as PM and herald it as a new era, a fresh start and try to convince the public to give Milliband a clean slate to work from. If they can pull it off, then they do stand a chance as it will be an election between two young progressive guns on a fairly equal ground.

RizzyKing 31-07-2008 12:54
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
People want labour out there is a feeling they have had power for too long and not done a lot with it despite all the waffle they come out with. One of the many reasons i think people don't like and will not take to brownshirt is that his scheming to get the job became known and anyone that replaces him will do so by scheming as well which also won't go down well.

Having hoisted brownshirt on us against our wishes lets not forget the public voted for blair who did state he would server a full third term and ended up with brownshirt the public is not going to accept another leadership change and another unelected PM. If they want to get rid of brownshirt then give us the election and let any new leader have that clean slate.

Osem 31-07-2008 13:47
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34611800)
In 92 Major was at the head of a government which was involved in a justifiable war against Iraq (bad man with beard and oil), and had a lot of support from the public, and the Heliograph.
As a voting nation, we appear to be conservative at heart (at least in England anyway), with the ethos that if you work hard you should be rewarded, and if you want a reward, you should work for it.
There was also the fear of Neil Kinnock being PM, something which probably accounts for such a high turn out and the Tories getting the largest number of votes for a single party in any GE.
While there was a recession, it appears the majority trusted the Tories more to get us through it than Labour, and evidently they were right.
NuLabour don't have that support, people don't trust them financially or politically.
While the Tories may have been busy screwing their secretaries, NuLabour have been busy screwing us, and I know which I'd prefer politicians to do!
True, but things didn't look quite that good for the Tories in 1990 when Thatcher was dumped and Major took control. Many within New Labour will be hoping the same can apply to them if they ditch Brown now and can restore some semblance of credibility over the next 2 years with a new leader. Let's not forget that, even now, Cameron's Tories are hardly all the people's favourites.....

Chris 31-07-2008 18:07
Re: Brown on the ropes? [Update - Labour loses Glasgow East By Election]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 34611846)
True, but things didn't look quite that good for the Tories in 1990 when Thatcher was dumped and Major took control. Many within New Labour will be hoping the same can apply to them if they ditch Brown now and can restore some semblance of credibility over the next 2 years with a new leader. Let's not forget that, even now, Cameron's Tories are hardly all the people's favourites.....
The problem is, if they ditch Brown, they won't have another two years. To replace the PM twice without seeking a new mandate through the ballot box would be a step too far for a great many MPs, for the Press and a lot of the public. The country would become ungovernable because it would become impossible for the Government to get any messages out, or launch anything, without getting hectored over the date of the next election. If Brown goes (which is sadly unlikely), then there will have to be an election no later than next May.


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