Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

Which planet are you referring to? The one you're on or the one we're on?

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

I'll speak to you about Sumer (capital 'S' by the way). I'm not too sure about Sumeria, what with the fact that it's never existed. 'Sumerian' would be the descriptive of someone who came from Sumer, so maybe you've got a little confused. What do you want to know?

Oh, and I have to admit that I'm impressed - your understanding of history appears to surpass the existance of homo sapiens by about 800 000 years. Quite a feat, although it does rather explain your inability to construct a coherent argument...

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

So you know all of History, impressive.

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

Ah, the Roman government - do you mean the Roman Republic or the Roman Empire (which was a dictatorship)?

You may have been made to do this, old son, but most of us on this forum (imho) haven't / don't.

Better than most...
History professors?
History teachers?
Babies in nappies?
I think you may find that reading the National Enquirer and Conspiracies Weekly does not count as being qualified as a "history expert".
btw, did you personally know Sargon the Great? (see my comment below)

Oooooooookayyyyyyy, then - if I read this correctly, you are an immortal being or a deity/xenomorph walking amongst humanity, spreading your message (well, spreading something, anyway ;) ) - or do you come from an race of beings with advanced technology, who have mastered suspended animation (but not spell-checking), and you just defrost for a couple of days every century to see how far mankind has advanced, in order to harvest us for our organs? (I wouldn't take Mr_love_monkey's if I were you, oh Great One - they have been mostly abused or unused).

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

Sounds familiar. Apart from the spell-checking bit. Which book is that from?

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

OK, the old ID cards thing again... Possibly time to re-iterate my views..

While what I do is legal, and mostly of no interest to anyone apart from me, my family and friends, I am uncomfortable with ID cards. For a couple of reasons:

1) I like the freedom to wander off somewhere and have no one be able to find out who I am without my permission.
2) This government hasn't been entirely successful at keeping the data they have secure. Bearing that in mind, I don't think it a good idea to give them more.

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

I'm not disagreeing with you (not yet anyway ;)) but your points raise two further points:

1. If you wander off in a city you will be filmed by many, many CCTV cameras. Without your permission being asked.

2. The government already holds a great deal of data about you. I don't think ID cards will add to that.

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

Rather overlooked in the whole grim farrago was a report, cunningly released yesterday when everyone was looking the other way, which completely undercuts the entire scheme. Basically it says there is a need for a voluntary ID scheme from a *consumer* viewpoint, to prove ID at banks etc., but this is incompatible with the massive compulsory centralised database idea which is what the Government are clinging on to and trying to force people into (e.g. you can't work in certain industries without one, which is as far from voluntary, consumer-led as you can get).

I think that counts as 'opening a can of whup-ass'.

http://p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog....sby_repor.html

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

True, however, unless there have been great advances in face recognition (which, last time I checked was about 50-60% accurate), they still won't know who I am..
True. Beyond some biometric data, the card itself won't add much, although if the data is stored on the card, I hope they aren't RFID cards. Don't really like the idea of someone being able to steal my data just by holding a reciever near me (as has been demonstrated with the US RFID passport system).

However, the main objection I have is that we appear to be moving toward being a police state, because of some percieved threat from terrorism.

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

The use of ID cards, by themselves, does not mean that Britain will become a "police state". Much more worrying is the eroding of rights of free speech and public assembly.

I'm all for it if means I only have to carry one card instead of passport, drivers licence, staff ID, security swipe card, Oyster card, etc, etc.

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

True, and I am concerned about the ID card as part of that.

I was going to say that you are in trouble if you lose it, but then if you carry all that stuff in your wallet, and lose your wallet, you are also in trouble.

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

This, although it's not actually true*, is actually an argument against - why should the country pay £19bn to collect and store data it already has?

* The ID scheme requires a lot more compulsory information than currently provided voluntarily. I can get by without a driving licence and if I'm not driving (like I didn't from about 1994 to 2003) I don't bother keeping DVLA informed of house moves. Ditto I've moved twice since getting my passport and haven't felt the need to inform them, and it's perfectly good ID, I took it the bank the other day, in fact, along with a water bill.

However, if I get a card and don't keep the ID card people IPS informed when I move I get whacked with a £2000 fine. What's in it for me, then, if on the rare occasions I need to prove who I am the other party is perfectly willing to accept my existing ID?

That's before getting onto the government repeatedly lying about the system anyway (biometrics are secure because they won't be online? How do you check the person in front of you has biometrics that match the database?). I don't trust them and don't think the scheme is necessary, although I'm prepared to accept that a free card for particularly low-paid people who find it difficult to prove who they are is actually positively beneficial.

---------- Post added at 12:34 ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 ----------

Since the scheme doesn't actually include any of that stuff (although the ID card would be a passport equivalent within the EU, but not outside), what's the point here? Your staff ID and security swipe card are part of a private contract between you and your employer, Oyster is a way of carrying cash around, open anonymously to anyone, particularly tourists, and solely intended to make using public transport simple. Do you really want all those run by the incompetents at the Home Office? They'd ruin them.

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

Sorry, I should have clarified...

I'm referring to the general idea of an ID card - one card that securely identifies the owner, and carries some personal information. A bit like a passport and drivers licence combined. Not compulsory, but extremely convenient.

I'm NOT supporting the specific, ill-conceived and very expensive plan the government had in mind for ID cards. It looks like they aren't supporting it either.

By the way, are you sure you want to admit that you didn't tell the DVLA about a change of address?

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

They'll never take me alive.

The key thing is that it didn't actually harm anyone - I wasn't using the licence at the time, since I didn't have a car. As soon as I did start driving, I dug it out and sent it off (IIRC I'd moved from Suffolk to Manchester to Hamburg to Manchester to Birmingham to London and three times within London too in the meantime). No harm done and paperwork avoided all round.

The Register has spotted this, I'm glad to say. Where I lead, others follow :P

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...atabase_gaffe/

Re: ID cards rethink to be unveiled
 

They might not care if they take you alive or not! I'm sure I've seen a poster about this, be suspicious of people who have several addresses. Or was that mobile phones?