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OLD BOY 22-07-2025 08:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36199666)
No, Farage plans to send the most hardened criminals to El Salvador, not just the "illegals".
Correct. The latter was my suggestion!

Russ 22-07-2025 08:17
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
If the Tories couldn’t do Rwanda, Farage won’t be able to do El Salvador.

OLD BOY 22-07-2025 08:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199661)
I don't think any party can completely change our system of taxation nor do I think Reform UK have suggested they can do this.
Can or won't?

Reform have indicated they are going to make changes to our system of taxation. They have come up with alternative plans for non doms as well.Here's one of them. We'll know the exact details of more changes when we see his manifesto.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/ta...les-will-work/

[EXTRACT]

The Reform UK leader promised sweeping tax breaks for married couples in a bid to boost birth rates and make family “a more important element in British life”. Estimates suggest it would save the average couple almost £2,500 a year in tax.

Currently, workers pay 20pc income tax on earnings between £12,570 and £50,270. Under Reform’s plans, one spouse would be spared from paying tax on the first £25,000 of income. It means a worker earning £50,000 would save about £2,500 in income tax.

The party has already vowed to raise the tax-free allowance from £12,571 to £20,000, which estimates suggest could cost as much as £80bn. On top of this, it has promised to raise the higher rate threshold from £50,270 to £70,000, to release the millions more workers being dragged by stealth into the top rate band, shown in the chart below.

If Reform delivered on all three promises, a worker earning £70,000 would be better off by almost £6,500.



---------- Post added at 08:47 ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36199684)
If the Tories couldn’t do Rwanda, Farage won’t be able to do El Salvador.
That’s a stretch, Russ. Why do you say that? The Conservatives were ready to fly the first illegals to Rwanda but the election put paid to that.

The main issue they had was the legal machinery that the human rights lawyers were able to exploit. Pull out of the ECHR and substitute the Refugee Convention 1951 and it’s 1967 Protocol for a UK Bill of Rights and put us back to where we thought we were when the Agreement was first passed, updated to be relevant for the 21st Century.

The problem is that successive governments and court over-reach have painted us into a corner which has resulted in us not being able to do anything anymore. This must change. If legislation or belonging to some sort of treaty gets in the way of what we want to do, we re-negotiate or abolish it. That’s the way to get things done.

We don’t need any more ‘can’t do’ governments - we need a ‘can do’ government which can achieve what so many people are demanding from our politicians.

1andrew1 22-07-2025 09:25
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36199685)
Can or won't?

Reform have indicated they are going to make changes to our system of taxation. They have come up with alternative plans for non doms as well.Here's one of them. We'll know the exact details of more changes when we see his manifesto.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/ta...les-will-work/

[EXTRACT]

[I]The Reform UK leader promised sweeping tax breaks for married couples in a bid to boost birth rates and make family “a more important element in British life”. Estimates suggest it would save the average couple almost £2,500 a year in tax.

Currently, workers pay 20pc income tax on earnings between £12,570 and £50,270. Under Reform’s plans, one spouse would be spared from paying tax on the first £25,000 of income. It means a worker earning £50,000 would save about £2,500 in income tax.

The party has already vowed to raise the tax-free allowance from £12,571 to £20,000, which estimates suggest could cost as much as £80bn. On top of this, it has promised to raise the higher rate threshold from £50,270 to £70,000, to release the millions more workers being dragged by stealth into the top rate band, shown in the chart below.

If Reform delivered on all three promises, a worker earning £70,000 would be better off by almost £6,500.
I don't see increasing a few allowances and increasing a tax band or two up as completely changing our system of taxation. The system has always accommodated these types of changes. As Reform UK have found when in power in councils, their wriggle room is somewhat limited.

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36199685)
That’s a stretch, Russ. Why do you say that? The Conservatives were ready to fly the first illegals to Rwanda but the election put paid to that.

The main issue they had was the legal machinery that the human rights lawyers were able to exploit. Pull out of the ECHR and substitute the Refugee Convention 1951 and it’s 1967 Protocol for a UK Bill of Rights and put us back to where we thought we were when the Agreement was first passed, updated to be relevant for the 21st Century.

The problem is that successive governments and court over-reach have painted us into a corner which has resulted in us not being able to do anything anymore. This must change. If legislation or belonging to some sort of treaty gets in the way of what we want to do, we re-negotiate or abolish it. That’s the way to get things done.

We don’t need any more ‘can’t do’ governments - we need a ‘can do’ government which can achieve what so many people are demanding from our politicians.
You can't leave the ECHR as we would wave goodbye to our trade deal with Europe and beyond. It's opposition party nonsense which makes the LibDems manifesto pledge of no university fees look like a realistic proposition! You've seen the economy struggle and unlawful immigration rise because of Brexit. How many more fairy tales do you need to read before you face up to reality that there are no lazy quick fixes?

Hugh 22-07-2025 09:46
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36199685)
Can or won't?

Reform have indicated they are going to make changes to our system of taxation. They have come up with alternative plans for non doms as well.Here's one of them. We'll know the exact details of more changes when we see his manifesto.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/ta...les-will-work/

[EXTRACT]

The Reform UK leader promised sweeping tax breaks for married couples in a bid to boost birth rates and make family “a more important element in British life”. Estimates suggest it would save the average couple almost £2,500 a year in tax.

Currently, workers pay 20pc income tax on earnings between £12,570 and £50,270. Under Reform’s plans, one spouse would be spared from paying tax on the first £25,000 of income. It means a worker earning £50,000 would save about £2,500 in income tax.

The party has already vowed to raise the tax-free allowance from £12,571 to £20,000, which estimates suggest could cost as much as £80bn. On top of this, it has promised to raise the higher rate threshold from £50,270 to £70,000, to release the millions more workers being dragged by stealth into the top rate band, shown in the chart below.

If Reform delivered on all three promises, a worker earning £70,000 would be better off by almost £6,500.



---------- Post added at 08:47 ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 ----------



That’s a stretch, Russ. Why do you say that? The Conservatives were ready to fly the first illegals to Rwanda but the election put paid to that.

The main issue they had was the legal machinery that the human rights lawyers were able to exploit. Pull out of the ECHR and substitute the Refugee Convention 1951 and it’s 1967 Protocol for a UK Bill of Rights and put us back to where we thought we were when the Agreement was first passed, updated to be relevant for the 21st Century.

The problem is that successive governments and court over-reach have painted us into a corner which has resulted in us not being able to do anything anymore. This must change. If legislation or belonging to some sort of treaty gets in the way of what we want to do, we re-negotiate or abolish it. That’s the way to get things done.

We don’t need any more ‘can’t do’ governments - we need a ‘can do’ government which can achieve what so many people are demanding from our politicians.
Two independent reviews of Reform UK’s tax proposals

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/17/...anifesto_2024/

Quote:
Reform UK has published its manifesto. They plan personal tax cuts which they say will cost £70bn; however our analysis shows that they’ve miscalculated, and the actual cost will be at least £88bn.

Reform UK says it will fund these tax costs with £70bn of savings and additional revenue, but it provides few details. Their proposal to change Bank of England reserve rules is over-stated by at least £15bn, and the cost would likely fall on businesses and consumers, not banks.

These two factors mean that Reform UK’s plans have a total unfunded cost of at least £33bn – about twice the unfunded cost of Liz Truss’ ill-fated 2022 “mini-Budget“.1

We hope other estimates become available soon, but for the moment this is the only currently available estimate of the impact of Reform UK’s proposals. We asked Reform UK for the calculations they had used; they did not respond.

We have published our methodology in full, together with the supporting spreadsheet and modelling. We welcome suggestions and corrections.

Our analysis is for tax year 2025/26 only; the cost will be higher towards the end of the Parliament. And, as the Institute for Fiscal Studies points out, the long-run annual cost will be higher still.
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-u...festo-reaction

Quote:
An assessment of the tax and spending changes proposed in the 2024 Reform UK general election manifesto.

Carl Emmerson, deputy director at the Institute for Fiscal Studies, said: “Reform UK proposes tax cuts that it estimates would cost nearly £90 billion per year, and spending increases of £50 billion per year. It claims that it would pay for these through £150 billion per year of reductions in other spending, covering public services, debt interest and working-age benefits.

This would represent a big cut to the size of the state. Regardless of the pros and cons of shrinking the state, or of any of their specific measures, the package as a whole is problematic. Spending reductions would save less than stated, and the tax cuts would cost more than stated, by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year. Meanwhile the spending increases would cost more than stated if they are to achieve their objectives.

A reduction in tax of £90 billion a year, while sizeable, would still see tax revenues higher as a share of the economy than in 2019–20. But in reality the package of tax cuts proposed would, if and when fully implemented, cost tens of billions of pounds a year more than that. For example, Reform UK plans to cut the rate of corporation tax from 25% to 20% immediately, and then to 15% in year 3 of the parliament. The manifesto costing of £18 billion a year over the course of the next parliament for all its business tax cuts is less than half of what official estimates suggest the long-run cost of just this cut in the corporation tax rate to 15% would be.

Of the proposed spending increases, the largest is for the NHS (£17 billion per year). However, this would not be nearly enough to meet Reform’s incredibly ambitious commitment to eliminate waiting lists within two years. Eliminating the waiting list entirely is a feat that has not been achieved in the history of the NHS and seems near impossible within two years.

The cost-saving measures would save less than set out. There is a respectable argument for changing the extent to which the Bank of England pays interest to commercial banks, and indeed some other central banks don’t pay interest on all the reserves they hold. But whether a good idea or not, it would raise a lot less than £35 billion per year. Reform also propose to reduce “wasteful” spending by £50 billion per year across all government departments, quangos and commissions. But saving this sum would require much more than a crackdown on waste; it would almost certainly require substantial cuts to the quantity or quality of public services.

Even with the extremely optimistic assumptions about how much economic growth would increase, the sums in this manifesto do not add up. Whilst Reform’s manifesto gives a clear sense of priority, a government could only implement parts of this package, or would need to find other ways to help pay for it, which would mean losers not specified.”

Sephiroth 22-07-2025 10:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
First, recognition to Hugh for taking the trouble to post the two analyses of Reform UK’s loose fiscal plans. Reform’s plans, at first sight, put Reform UK into the same wishful thinking pot as the other main parties.

Reform UK can come right if they soberly and soundly explain the downward spiral we are in and how they will realistically deal with that. Being a downward spiral, realism will require some serious analysis - what’s going downhill, ranked by importance to people and the economy. Then one by one, a choice of cures for each challenge that eventually inter-lock to provide the best mix of measures.

Such a plan would also require investment plans. We can’t borrow any more for growth - we’ve proved that we can’t manage large projects. So that would fall to private industry and they’ll want to make their buck. The countries with the tin to invest need to (a) like us, (b) see a buck or five as the result of their investment, (c) see a government plan to make that possible.

All this boils down to a fragile set of geo-political variables where chances of success are low. So this implies the need for “foundations” and/or “building blocks”; the stuff that Labour mumbles on about whilst monumentally failing. When you add Starmer to the Tories’ mess, you’ve got compound mess.

I doubt that Reform UK nor anyone can fix this without a huge, painful reset. For example, it is urgent that the retirement age be raised significantly to take pressure off the upcoming Treasury’s bankruptcy; at the same time, a pension investment fund must be established to grow for future pensions. The incoming shortfall will have to be paid for by taxation - must happen. This needs selling to the public. Stupid projects and most foreign aid should be stopped.

The green shit must be stopped. Just think = heat pumps have to run on electricity. Plus they cost the earth to buy and install. We’ve got natural gas resources; use them. Common sense stuff.

Reform really must have sound plans, explained to the public. No good trying to woo the public; the public need to be aware of the sit creek we’re up and be convinced that the Reform ship has the paddle.

papa smurf 22-07-2025 12:10
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Laura Anne Jones, a senior Conservative member of the Welsh Senned, has defected to Reform. She was the Conservative group's local government spokesperson.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...live-reform-uk

1andrew1 22-07-2025 13:52
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36199693)
First, recognition to Hugh for taking the trouble to post the two analyses of Reform UK’s loose fiscal plans. Reform’s plans, at first sight, put Reform UK into the same wishful thinking pot as the other main parties.

Reform UK can come right if they soberly and soundly explain the downward spiral we are in and how they will realistically deal with that. Being a downward spiral, realism will require some serious analysis - what’s going downhill, ranked by importance to people and the economy. Then one by one, a choice of cures for each challenge that eventually inter-lock to provide the best mix of measures.

Such a plan would also require investment plans. We can’t borrow any more for growth - we’ve proved that we can’t manage large projects. So that would fall to private industry and they’ll want to make their buck. The countries with the tin to invest need to (a) like us, (b) see a buck or five as the result of their investment, (c) see a government plan to make that possible.

All this boils down to a fragile set of geo-political variables where chances of success are low. So this implies the need for “foundations” and/or “building blocks”; the stuff that Labour mumbles on about whilst monumentally failing. When you add Starmer to the Tories’ mess, you’ve got compound mess.

I doubt that Reform UK nor anyone can fix this without a huge, painful reset. For example, it is urgent that the retirement age be raised significantly to take pressure off the upcoming Treasury’s bankruptcy; at the same time, a pension investment fund must be established to grow for future pensions. The incoming shortfall will have to be paid for by taxation - must happen. This needs selling to the public. Stupid projects and most foreign aid should be stopped.

The green shit must be stopped. Just think = heat pumps have to run on electricity. Plus they cost the earth to buy and install. We’ve got natural gas resources; use them. Common sense stuff.

Reform really must have sound plans, explained to the public. No good trying to woo the public; the public need to be aware of the sit creek we’re up and be convinced that the Reform ship has the paddle.
Sadly these are not sound plans from Reform UK. The miscalculations are shocking and Reform needs to go back to the drawing board and some. Putin will like them as they plan to do a Chamberlain and stop supporting Ukraine. Or end stupid foreign aid as Reform prefers to call it.

I'm not sure anyone surgically explaining the problems we're in is going to win an election in the UK right now. This kind of analysis and trade-offs won't ever come from populists like Farage and Trump. It is exactly what the Conservatives should be doing now behind closed doors in readiness for the 2029 election but primarily the 2036 one.

The gas arguments don't work as gas is sold on a global market not a UK one and is more expensive than renewables. We need energy sovereignty and to future-proof our energy supplies whilst minimising the growth of global warming as this is costly in terms of new flood defences, poor crop yields, etc. Common sense stuff. ;)

Sephiroth 22-07-2025 14:04
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199698)
Sadly these are not sound plans from Reform UK. The miscalculations are shocking and Reform needs to go back to the drawing board and some. Putin will like them as they plan to do a Chamberlain and stop supporting Ukraine. Or end stupid foreign aid as Reform prefers to call it.

I'm not sure anyone surgically explaining the problems we're in is going to win an election in the UK right now. This kind of analysis and trade-offs won't ever come from populists like Farage and Trump. It is exactly what the Conservatives should be doing now behind closed doors in readiness for the 2029 election but primarily the 2036 one.

The gas arguments don't work as gas is sold on a global market not a UK one and is more expensive than renewables. We need energy sovereignty and to future-proof our energy supplies whilst minimising the growth of global warming as this is costly in terms of new flood defences, poor crop yields, etc. Common sense stuff. ;)
The gas argument does work to an extent that it provides British jobs and supply chains. It can also work if the government makes this a sovereign project, the profits from which go into a sovereign wealth fund.

1andrew1 22-07-2025 14:25
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36199699)
The gas argument does work to an extent that it provides British jobs and supply chains. It can also work if the government makes this a sovereign project, the profits from which go into a sovereign wealth fund.
It's an expensive fuel. And it increases global warming which is adding to the tax burden.

Paul 22-07-2025 15:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Much as I would love to pay far less tax, their proposals do not seem to have any sound financial basis.

Sephiroth 22-07-2025 15:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199701)
It's an expensive fuel. And it increases global warming which is adding to the tax burden.
But heatpumps are expensive and electricity is very expensive. Surely we should use what we have first.

1andrew1 22-07-2025 17:13
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36199704)
But heatpumps are expensive and electricity is very expensive. Surely we should use what we have first.
Electricity is expensive because it's linked to the price of gas. Once renewables reach tipping point that link will cease to exist and we can enjoy far cheaper bills

We also need to do more things like this .
Quote:
Renters may be able to use plug-in solar panels after safety review

Ed Miliband’s energy department looks to follow the example of Germany where panels cost less than £200 each

Renters will be able to use solar power to cut their energy bills for the first time under government plans to allow plug-in panels for balconies and rooftops.

Balcony solar power panels have boomed in Germany, Spain and other European countries, and Germans can now buy individual panels for less than £200.

However, under UK regulations plug-in panels are not allowed. That may now change with the start of a safety review on Monday by Ed Miliband’s energy department.

The safety concern is due to differences in how UK and German homes are wired and how sockets are connected to fuse boxes. Testing will be needed to ensure that the devices are safe under all possible fault conditions when plugged into a UK socket.

The authorities have allowed the panels in several other European countries without widespread issues. Almost half a million were installed in Germany last year alone, official figures show. They are increasingly popular in the Netherlands, France, Italy and Spain.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/environm...omes-xxhwf5chr

Hugh 22-07-2025 17:19
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36199704)
But heatpumps are expensive and electricity is very expensive. Surely we should use what we have first.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/environm...=1753200951729

Quote:
What sets the price?

Every half hour, every day of the year, there is an automatic auction. From the electrons that heat your morning kettle to the ones that flow through your bedside reading light, generators place bids for the privilege of supplying you.

Some, such as wind farms, place a low bid — say, 5p per KWh. Once you’ve built a wind turbine, it costs very little to run it.

Some, such as ageing gas turbines, might ask for more. They cost a lot more to run, especially if their job is as a buffer for less windy days.

“If you’re only called up to run a couple of hours a week, you are going to need to charge higher prices to stay functional,” says Iain Staffell, a lecturer in sustainable energy at Imperial College London. So maybe they will bid 20p/kwh.

Then, the energy retailers buy what they need — starting with the cheapest, and going in price order until it has enough. So far this makes sense.

What might make less sense, unless you are an economist, is that the price they pay — called the wholesale electricity price — is set by whichever source is the most expensive. If 99 per cent of the electricity used that half-hour is wind, and 1 per cent is gas, we still pay the gas price for all of it.

This creates a paradox. The proportion of renewables in our energy mix has gone up from 15 per cent a decade ago to 40 per cent today. But even as our grid has decarbonised, the price mechanism has gone the other way. More than 95 per cent of the time, the price is determined by gas.

1andrew1 22-07-2025 17:25
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36199706)
We definitely need to cut the link to expensive gas. I guess by better storage.

Itshim 22-07-2025 17:31
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Which room will you give up take a heatpump . And don't forget the water cylinder? Just asking

Sephiroth 22-07-2025 17:37
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199707)
We definitely need to cut the link to expensive gas. I guess by better storage.
... Or by making UK Gas exploitation a sovereign enterprise, where we control the price of gas sold to the UK power industry.

Needs something different to be done to use the assets we have.

Hugh 22-07-2025 17:53
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36199709)
... Or by making UK Gas exploitation a sovereign enterprise, where we control the price of gas sold to the UK power industry.

Needs something different to be done to use the assets we have.
Unfortunately, unlike Norway, it’s a bit late - why would the Oil/Gas companies invest in a declining market (as in the amount of oil/gas left in the North Sea) for reduced profits?

Interesting article about what Norway did right in the 60s and 70s…

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2...norway-uk-oil/

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36199708)
Which room will you give up take a heatpump . And don't forget the water cylinder? Just asking
Quote:
The typical size of an air source heat pump is between 1 and 1.5m high and between 0.5 and 1m wide.
And usually goes outside the house, and re the buffer tank

Quote:
The buffer tank may be similar in size to a hot water cylinder and to save space may be situated above or below the cylinder or integrated into one tall vessel. To save space a buffer tank could also be put in a loft or basement.
https://nef.org.uk/what-are-the-spac...rce-heat-pump/

Paul 22-07-2025 21:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
...or it can just replace your existing hot water tank.

Chris 23-07-2025 09:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
… or we’ll eventually accept there’s no way of eliminating the domestic gas supply network any time soon and start pumping hydrogen into it. Domestic consumption accounts for a third of total use in the UK so homes aren’t even the major contributor and it’s not as if you can make a sudden large dent in that figure by transitioning one user.

My brother has an air source heat pump; at my last house my neighbour had one. All I can say is that I would never want to live in a street where every house has one. They’re quiet, but not that quiet. If we go down that route, I guarantee you a generation from now the recurring newspaper story will be streets blighted by noise pollution.

Carth 23-07-2025 16:12
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
My house is East/West facing, apparently not really the best to take advantage of Solar.

I looked at possibly getting a few panels with the idea it would help (slowly) long term . . . panels are cheap enough, converters and batteries aren't.

And in regards to an Air Source heat pump, it would be cheaper to knock the house down and rebuild it to suit :rolleyes:

Itshim 23-07-2025 17:15
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36199711)
Unfortunately, unlike Norway, it’s a bit late - why would the Oil/Gas companies invest in a declining market (as in the amount of oil/gas left in the North Sea) for reduced profits?

Interesting article about what Norway did right in the 60s and 70s…

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2...norway-uk-oil/

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------





And usually goes outside the house, and re the buffer tank



https://nef.org.uk/what-are-the-spac...rce-heat-pump/
Have you seen the water tank :confused: , guess you don't remember warm air heating systems. They were the future.

Hugh 23-07-2025 17:28
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36199748)
Have you seen the water tank :confused: , guess you don't remember warm air heating systems. They were the future.
Not in the UK, they weren't - they were just a cheap method used by builders to cut costs, but to sell the house with "central heating" (my first bought house (in Thatcham in ‘84)) had that system; all it was was a column in the centre of the house distributing warm air thru vents at floor level in each connected.

Terrible system.

Chris 23-07-2025 17:59
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36199753)
Not in the UK, they weren't - they were just a cheap method used by builders to cut costs, but to sell the house with "central heating" (my first bought house (in Thatcham in ‘84) had that system; all it was was a column in the centre of the house distributing warm air thru vents at floor level in each connected.

Terrible system.
And dangerous, when old and rickety, as my dad found out a year or two after buying a house in the late 80s that had one of these. The air pump started to overheat and smoke thanks to a build up of debris, and it blew the smoke round the entire house in double quick time. Thankfully the smoke alarm (for back then it was common only to have one, if you had one at all) was powered up and working.

Itshim 25-07-2025 18:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36199753)
Not in the UK, they weren't - they were just a cheap method used by builders to cut costs, but to sell the house with "central heating" (my first bought house (in Thatcham in ‘84)) had that system; all it was was a column in the centre of the house distributing warm air thru vents at floor level in each connected.

Terrible system.
Not arguing, I note someone said they are not that noisy. The one I was shown as a demo was far to noisy for me,but l have hearing aids cranked up . :D

OLD BOY 28-07-2025 09:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199687)

You can't leave the ECHR as we would wave goodbye to our trade deal with Europe and beyond. It's opposition party nonsense which makes the LibDems manifesto pledge of no university fees look like a realistic proposition! You've seen the economy struggle and unlawful immigration rise because of Brexit. How many more fairy tales do you need to read before you face up to reality that there are no lazy quick fixes?
We could, actually. You are being negative again.The UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement does not explicitly require ECHR membership, although technically the parts of it relating to law enforcement and security 'may be suspended' (Article 524). However, trade would not be impacted as you have strongly implied here.

Other trade agreements would not be affected at all by our withdrawing from the ECHR.

The economic impact of our leaving the EU has not been the disaster that remainers had predicted, and the EU is desperate to try to prove otherwise, given that some countries are considering leaving the EU. Poland, for example, is facing daily fines for continuing to prevent uncontrolled immigration into the country. If the EU can persuade those countries that the disadvatages of doing so outweigh the advantages, it will make them think twice.

Hugh 28-07-2025 11:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36199979)
We could, actually. You are being negative again.The UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement does not explicitly require ECHR membership, although technically the parts of it relating to law enforcement and security 'may be suspended' (Article 524). However, trade would not be impacted as you have strongly implied here.

Other trade agreements would not be affected at all by our withdrawing from the ECHR.

The economic impact of our leaving the EU has not been the disaster that remainers had predicted, and the EU is desperate to try to prove otherwise, given that some countries are considering leaving the EU. Poland, for example, is facing daily fines for continuing to prevent uncontrolled immigration into the country. If the EU can persuade those countries that the disadvatages of doing so outweigh the advantages, it will make them think twice.
Since you specifically focus on the economic impact, you may find information from February this year informative…

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/th...s/#assumptions

Quote:
The post-Brexit trading relationship between the UK and EU, as set out in the ‘Trade and Cooperation Agreement’ (TCA) that came into effect on 1 January 2021, will reduce long-run productivity by 4 per cent relative to remaining in the EU
Quote:
Both exports and imports will be around 15 per cent lower in the long run than if the UK had remained in the EU
Quote:
New trade deals with non-EU countries will not have a material impact, and any effect will be gradual (see our 2018 Discussion paper for more detail). This is because the deals concluded to date either replicate (or ‘roll over’) deals that the UK already benefited from as an EU member state, or do not have a material impact on our forecast.
Or in a summary chart

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/...rrer=deep-link

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1753698622

1andrew1 28-07-2025 12:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36199979)
We could, actually. You are being negative again.The UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement does not explicitly require ECHR membership, although technically the parts of it relating to law enforcement and security 'may be suspended' (Article 524). However, trade would not be impacted as you have strongly implied here.

Other trade agreements would not be affected at all by our withdrawing from the ECHR.

The economic impact of our leaving the EU has not been the disaster that remainers had predicted, and the EU is desperate to try to prove otherwise, given that some countries are considering leaving the EU. Poland, for example, is facing daily fines for continuing to prevent uncontrolled immigration into the country. If the EU can persuade those countries that the disadvatages of doing so outweigh the advantages, it will make them think twice.
Leaving the EHCR is a breach of the Good Friday agreement so expect trade deals to become invalid if this happens.
Think what we could do with that extra 4% of GDP? Tax cut? Increased spending on the NHS? Cheaper fuel prices?
Think how many fewer hotels would be needed without the Brexit-led unlawful immigration.
And Brexiters have been predicting the Netherlands, Poland and.Ireland leaving for years. Ain't gonna happen.

Itshim 28-07-2025 17:33
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199982)
Leaving the EHCR is a breach of the Good Friday agreement so expect trade deals to become invalid if this happens.
Think what we could do with that extra 4% of GDP? Tax cut? Increased spending on the NHS? Cheaper fuel prices?
Think how many fewer hotels would be needed without the Brexit-led unlawful immigration.
And Brexiters have been predicting the Netherlands, Poland and.Ireland leaving for years. Ain't gonna happen.
What a stupid thing to have agreed to in the first place. Stand up for this country instead of crawling to everyone. Even better cut NI lose .

1andrew1 28-07-2025 18:06
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36199991)
What a stupid thing to have agreed to in the first place. Stand up for this country instead of crawling to everyone. Even better cut NI lose .
We were a member of the Council of Europe, keenly backed by Winston Churchill, which enacted the EHCR. Not so much as our agreeing to it but advocating it.

You can't cut NI loose, you'll never get a mandate in the UK to do that.

pip08456 28-07-2025 18:48
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199993)
We were a member of the Council of Europe, keenly backed by Winston Churchill, which enacted the EHCR. Not so much as our agreeing to it but advocating it.

You can't cut NI loose, you'll never get a mandate in the UK to do that.
When did Winston see us as being aq member of it?

Itshim 28-07-2025 18:52
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199993)
We were a member of the Council of Europe, keenly backed by Winston Churchill, which enacted the EHCR. Not so much as our agreeing to it but advocating it.

You can't cut NI loose, you'll never get a mandate in the UK to do that.
There we differ if put to a vote , as things stand I think NI would vote to leave ( join Ireland). Why on earth would the rest of the UK hang on to it:confused:

1701-e 28-07-2025 18:59
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Way off topic.

Reform deffo want to keep NI regardless of any vote.

Mr K 28-07-2025 19:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1701-e (Post 36199999)
Way off topic.

Reform deffo want to keep NI regardless of any vote.
So they aren't fans of democracy anylonger, slippery slope....

papa smurf 28-07-2025 19:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200000)
So they aren't fans of democracy anylonger, slippery slope....
Don't remember you being a fan of it either re the Brexit referendum

Sephiroth 28-07-2025 20:21
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I'm not sure that Reform UK fully agrees with what my policy would be.

1/
We should not leave the ECHR. It sends the wrong message to the world. But we should play the long game of brining it up to date with modern situations.

2/
In any case, we should remove any funding from the leeching/leftie lawyers who greedily sponge off the state to plead the case for the undocumented boat people.

3/
If France does not stop the boats from leaving France, we should give notice that we are prepared to create an international incident, if necessary, by pushing boats back to French waters.

4/
The undocumented boat people now in the UK must be moved into secure barrack accommodation and processed by a dedicated team. No freedom to roam in public, betting shops, etc. No cash cards; no mobile phones unless they have their own.

5/
Build jails for failed asylum seekers if we cannot return them whence they came.

6/
I would keep the GFA intact for the sake of NI. Not because I believe there would be violence, but we are post-Brexit and should make the most of it.



---------- Post added at 20:21 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36199997)
There we differ if put to a vote , as things stand I think NI would vote to leave ( join Ireland). Why on earth would the rest of the UK hang on to it:confused:
Are you right? Topic searches on Google are as broad as they are long. Plus the Republic is under the Trump cosh.

OLD BOY 28-07-2025 20:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36199993)
We were a member of the Council of Europe, keenly backed by Winston Churchill, which enacted the EHCR. Not so much as our agreeing to it but advocating it.
A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. Winston would be turning in his grave if he could see what this would lead to. He left us a free country, not a country unable to move in any direction due to the suffocating walls we built ourselves to ensure our almost total incapacity to do anything.

The ECHR has become completely onerous to governments due to the over-reach of judges, made worse by the fact that the UK seems to be the only country to take these judgments seriously. Other European nations only implement those decisions that suit them.

---------- Post added at 20:29 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36200005)


Are you right? Topic searches on Google are as broad as they are long. Plus the Republic is under the Trump cosh.
Well, the Catholics tend to breed like rabbits, so it’s only a matter of time before they become the majority of the electorate.

Mr K 28-07-2025 21:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Catholics now outnumber Protestants in NI. Hence a Sinn Fein first minister. Doesn't necessarily mean a United Ireland, but its just a matter of time. Brexit will have accelerated the process, if the population see a better life within the EU. Everyone has the right to vote to leave, Reform can surely agree with that?

Russ 28-07-2025 22:53
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36200005)
In any case, we should remove any funding from the leeching/leftie lawyers who greedily sponge off the state to plead the case for the undocumented boat people.
Solicitors advise their clients on their rights in the laws created by Parliament. The ones you describe as “lefty” are upholding the law, ie doing the job they’re qualified for. It sounds as if you’re advocating for changing the law to suit your own views.

When Bullshitting Boris described them as “lefty lawyers” the Bar Council, who represents ALL Law firms said his words were “shocking and troubling” but hardly surprising coming from the man who rarely agrees that the law applies to himself.

The term “lefty lawyers” has been around for 5 years or so. Why didn’t the then government amend laws that these solicitors were using to “exploit”?

Because lawyers are not the problem but it’s easy to dump blame on them.

Hugh 28-07-2025 23:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200008)
A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. Winston would be turning in his grave if he could see what this would lead to. He left us a free country, not a country unable to move in any direction due to the suffocating walls we built ourselves to ensure our almost total incapacity to do anything.

The ECHR has become completely onerous to governments due to the over-reach of judges, made worse by the fact that the UK seems to be the only country to take these judgments seriously. Other European nations only implement those decisions that suit them.

---------- Post added at 20:29 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------



Well, the Catholics tend to breed like rabbits, so it’s only a matter of time before they become the majority of the electorate.
How to be casually offensive whilst not having a firm grasp of actual facts…

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nd-historical/

Quote:
however the gradual liberalization of Irish society and the decline of the church's influence, saw Ireland's fertility rate drop below two births per woman by the 1990s. (below replacement level). While fertility has remained below replacement level in the past three decades, the country still remains above the European average, with a total fertility rate of more than 1.8 children per woman in 2020, compared to the continental average of 1.6 children.
Pretty sure 1.8 children per woman isn’t "breeding like rabbits" - like so many of your viewpoints, it’s firmly stuck in the 50s and 60s…

papa smurf 29-07-2025 08:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36200015)
How to be casually offensive whilst not having a firm grasp of actual facts…

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nd-historical/



Pretty sure 1.8 children per woman isn’t "breeding like rabbits" - like so many of your viewpoints, it’s firmly stuck in the 50s and 60s…
That's an average, maybe the good looking ones are "breeding like rabbits" and the ugly ones aint getting any :erm:

Hugh 29-07-2025 10:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36200020)
That's an average, maybe the good looking ones are "breeding like rabbits" and the ugly ones aint getting any :erm:
The end result is the same - averaging less than 2 children per woman...

Itshim 29-07-2025 17:55
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36200013)
Solicitors advise their clients on their rights in the laws created by Parliament. The ones you describe as “lefty” are upholding the law, ie doing the job they’re qualified for. It sounds as if you’re advocating for changing the law to suit your own views.

When Bullshitting Boris described them as “lefty lawyers” the Bar Council, who represents ALL Law firms said his words were “shocking and troubling” but hardly surprising coming from the man who rarely agrees that the law applies to himself.

The term “lefty lawyers” has been around for 5 years or so. Why didn’t the then government amend laws that these solicitors were using to “exploit”?

Because lawyers are not the problem but it’s easy to dump blame on them.
Lawyer's in parliament, creating laws that put money in their and their friends pockets. Shock horror

Russ 29-07-2025 18:02
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36200041)
Lawyer's in parliament, creating laws that put money in their and their friends pockets. Shock horror
Tell us you have no idea or experience of how Laws work without telling us you have no idea or experience of how Laws work.

Hugh 29-07-2025 18:13
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36200041)
Lawyer's in parliament, creating laws that put money in their and their friends pockets. Shock horror
Historically (and currently) there have been substantially more business people in the House of Commons than lawyers - did they "create laws that put money in their and their friends pockets"?

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...3/CBP-7483.pdf

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1753809024

OLD BOY 30-07-2025 16:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36200015)

Pretty sure 1.8 children per woman isn’t "breeding like rabbits" - like so many of your viewpoints, it’s firmly stuck in the 50s and 60s…
It’s still above the rate at which Protestants reproduce, and therefore the potential of Catholics to determine a reunification vote is increasing all the time. That was the point.

Chris 30-07-2025 18:26
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200110)
It’s still above the rate at which Protestants reproduce, and therefore the potential of Catholics to determine a reunification vote is increasing all the time. That was the point.
… and your point is still nonsense. Have you no concept of how statistically insignificant a difference of 0.2 children per generation is?

Leaving aside of course the fact that ‘breeding like rabbits’ in nobody’s language means ‘has a bigger family than the people over the street’. Not when almost no family in the street has more than 2 kids and some only have one.

Face it. Surprising as it may seem, you got caught out mindlessly rehearsing tropes.

Carth 03-08-2025 11:36
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Statistics again

I remember all the fun and hilarity when 2.4 children was the butt of jokes :D

OLD BOY 03-08-2025 12:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36200123)
… and your point is still nonsense. Have you no concept of how statistically insignificant a difference of 0.2 children per generation is?

Leaving aside of course the fact that ‘breeding like rabbits’ in nobody’s language means ‘has a bigger family than the people over the street’. Not when almost no family in the street has more than 2 kids and some only have one.

Face it. Surprising as it may seem, you got caught out mindlessly rehearsing tropes.
Well, it’s a common misconception, obviously based on the past if the above posts are correct.

You don’t have to be so rude in so many of your responses. It discourages some from posting anything.

Sephiroth 03-08-2025 13:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I like straightforward talk. It allows me to be at least equally forthright.

That’s one of the things I like about GB News.


Carth 03-08-2025 14:02
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36200346)
I like straightforward talk. It allows me to be at least equally forthright.
You'd never make it in a political career ;) :rofl:

Sephiroth 03-08-2025 15:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36200348)
You'd never make it in a political career ;) :rofl:
And that's what's wrong with politics. Actually, I'd be a breath of fresh but the various pressure groups (= tails wagging dogs) would try to spoil everything.

The one thing Reform UK needs to do, is work out their policies and have the implementation plans reputably double checked and then explained.

Paul 03-08-2025 20:57
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200344)
You don’t have to be so rude in so many of your responses. It discourages some from posting anything.
He wasnt.

Only you appear to think that, I dont see anyone else complaining.

I dont see any evidence provided to backup your claim of "It discourages some from posting anything" either.

1andrew1 03-08-2025 23:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200344)
You don’t have to be so rude in so many of your responses. It discourages some from posting anything.
I genuinely don't think people on this Forum are snowflakes who won't post anything for fear of being hurt by a moderator's words. Open to being corrected.

Chris 04-08-2025 00:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36200388)
I genuinely don't think people on this Forum are snowflakes who won't post anything for fear of being hurt by a moderator's words. Open to being corrected.
That’s where you’re WRONG

Fear me you utter TWONK

:Peace:

1andrew1 04-08-2025 07:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36200389)
That’s where you’re WRONG

Fear me you utter TWONK

:Peace:
That' so rude, I'm not going to post! :D
Oops!

OLD BOY 04-08-2025 12:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36200373)
He wasnt.

Only you appear to think that, I dont see anyone else complaining.

I dont see any evidence provided to backup your claim of "It discourages some from posting anything" either.
I know it for a fact - I get private messages, remember?

Sirius 04-08-2025 13:15
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Good news our rubbish labour council just lost an election for a new councillor to Reform :D:D

Paul 04-08-2025 14:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200429)
I know it for a fact - I get private messages, remember?
Yes, I'm sure your inbox is full of people who moan only to you, they know where the exit is. Its also irrelevant to the topic, so again, back to the subject.

Itshim 04-08-2025 17:02
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
:hyper:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36200431)
Good news our rubbish labour council just lost an election for a new councillor to Reform :D:D

Mr K 04-08-2025 17:48
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36200431)
Good news our rubbish labour council just lost an election for a new councillor to Reform :D:D
Reform councilors don't have a good track record of staying in the job when they find out they have to do something and are accountable.
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/06/1...-in-six-weeks/
Who do you protest/moan about if you're the one in charge? :shrug:

Sirius 04-08-2025 18:52
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200470)
Reform councilors don't have a good track record of staying in the job when they find out they have to do something and are accountable.
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/06/1...-in-six-weeks/
Who do you protest/moan about if you're the one in charge? :shrug:
Anyone is better than who left. He was the finance officer who oversaw the accumulation of £1.8 billion of debt due to crazy get rich schemes. He then decides he will retire from his role and is inline for a fat pension and golden handshake.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceq7z71w8xno

https://www.ft.com/content/e5024825-...f-74af3faaaa64


The biggest problem at Warrington council was that there was not enough non labour councillors to oppose the stupid investments they made that nearly all failed dramatically.

Basically they believed they had the famous labour magic money tree

Paul 04-08-2025 18:57
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Wait ...
Quote:
The council is to pay £1,200 a day for the lead envoy and £1,100 for the other envoys.
(There are 3 others).

So £4500 a day, £1.64 Million per year, for 5 years ?
Seems as if they were better off just £1.8 million in the red.

Sirius 04-08-2025 19:18
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36200474)
Wait ...
(There are 3 others).

So £4500 a day, £1.64 Million per year, for 5 years ?
Seems as if they were better off just £1.8 million in the red.
Paul it’s billion not million. Jobs for the boys springs to mind.It is rumoured the debt has increased to £1.9 billion. Somebody did a calculation and it means £15000 per man women and child in Warrington is in debt because let’s face it the council will not be paying it. The debt will be funded from increased council tax.

Mr K 04-08-2025 19:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I see the turn out was 18%, and less than 10% of the electorate voted for Reform . If the electorate give up on voting that's the time to worry.

Sirius 04-08-2025 19:33
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200477)
I see the turn out was 18%, and less than 10% of the electorate voted for Reform . If the electorate give up on voting that's the time to worry.
I don’t care what the turn out is as long as the idiots that created the debt are kicked out. I don’t even care which party they are as long as they are not labour.

OLD BOY 04-08-2025 20:15
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36200431)
Good news our rubbish labour council just lost an election for a new councillor to Reform :D:D
That’s the way it’s going!

---------- Post added at 20:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200477)
I see the turn out was 18%, and less than 10% of the electorate voted for Reform . If the electorate give up on voting that's the time to worry.
So what percentage did the other parties get?…..:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 20:15 ---------- Previous post was at 20:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200470)
Reform councilors don't have a good track record of staying in the job when they find out they have to do something and are accountable.
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/06/1...-in-six-weeks/
Who do you protest/moan about if you're the one in charge? :shrug:
Is that the best you’ve got? It’s a new party breaking new ground. It will find itself.

Concentrate on the policies and ask yourself why both Conservative and Labour voters are turning to Reform in their droves. That’s the real debate.

Mr K 04-08-2025 20:18
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200483)

So what percentage did the other parties get?…..:rolleyes:
Not sure OB, do the maths. But if less than 1 in 5 of the electorate voted, and less than half of those voted for the winner, then democracy has lost.

Paul 04-08-2025 22:49
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36200476)
Paul it’s billion not million. .
Whoops, I totally misread that. :erm:

Even so, 1.6 Million per year seems an insane amount to be paying for a bit of help.

OLD BOY 06-08-2025 13:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200487)
Not sure OB, do the maths.
I did. Reform got more votes that all the other parties put together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200487)

But if less than 1 in 5 of the electorate voted, and less than half of those voted for the winner, then democracy has lost.
I agree, that’s not good, but such is the disillusionment with our main political parties, it is not surprising.

Mr K 06-08-2025 17:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200542)
I did. Reform got more votes that all the other parties put together.
Take it, maths isn't your strong point then OB? ;)
Quote:
Bewsey and Whitecross by-election

Liberal Democrat, David Crowther – 223 votes
Labour, Maitane Akpan – 631 votes
Reform UK, John Anthony Roddy – 752 votes (elected)
Conservative, Stephen Howard Taylor – 116 votes
Rejected ballot papers total - 9

Turnout

18%
https://www.warrington.gov.uk/electionresults

Itshim 06-08-2025 17:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200487)
Not sure OB, do the maths. But if less than 1 in 5 of the electorate voted, and less than half of those voted for the winner, then democracy has lost.
Perhaps you need to check out most UK governments, nearly every one most of country didn't vote for them . That never stops them saying it's what the country wants:shocked:

Sirius 06-08-2025 20:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200558)
Take it, maths isn't your strong point then OB? ;)

https://www.warrington.gov.uk/electionresults
You do understand this was a vote for a councillor in a small ward within the Warrington region. This was not a major vote for the whole of Warrington.


Bewsey and Whitecross by-election
Liberal Democrat, David Crowther: 223 votes
Labour, Maitane Akpan: 631 votes
Reform UK, John Anthony Roddy: 752 votes (elected)
Conservative, Stephen Howard Taylor: 116 votes
Rejected ballot papers total: 9

Voting for more candidates than voter was entitled to: 1
Writing or mark by which voter could be identified: 1
Being unmarked or wholly void for uncertainty: 7
Electorate size: 9773

Ballot papers issued: 1731

Turnout: 17.7%

Hugh 06-08-2025 20:40
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I believe Mr K was specifically responding (in his later post) to this point, which was not congruent with actuality

Quote:
Reform got more votes that all the other parties put together.
Reform got 752 votes, all the other parties put together got 970 votes.

papa smurf 06-08-2025 21:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I'm glad we've worked out Reform won, i was on the edge of my seat, it was a real nail biter

Sirius 06-08-2025 21:26
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36200568)
I'm glad we've worked out Reform won, i was on the edge of my seat, it was a real nail biter

:LOL:

Hugh 06-08-2025 23:40
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36200568)
I'm glad we've worked out Reform won, i was on the edge of my seat, it was a real nail biter
Glad you managed to work that one out, eventually…

1andrew1 07-08-2025 00:10
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36200558)
Take it, maths isn't your strong point then OB?
I've heard Liz Truss is missing her calculator.

Carth 07-08-2025 00:51
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36200573)
I've heard Liz Truss is missing her calculator.
It's not missing Andrew, it's slightly broken. The = key sometimes acted as a - (minus) or ÷ (divide) which is obviously awkward, and it has now been loaned out to Diane Abbott.

papa smurf 07-08-2025 07:44
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36200573)
I've heard Liz Truss is missing her calculator.
Rachael Reeves found it :tu:

Sephiroth 07-08-2025 09:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36200578)
Rachael Reeves found it :tu:
It had two + buttons.

Carth 07-08-2025 10:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Calculators, brilliant things that took the hard work out of learning how to do math at school. No longer 3 pages of calculations required, log books thrown in the bin (sine cosine), Trigonometry turned into childs play, Algebra no longer gave you migraine.

Come on admit it, you just used to input a few numbers then turn it upside down to see what word they spelt :D

Sephiroth 07-08-2025 11:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
There were no calculators in my day (other than the semi-mechanical ones that they had in banks and shops). In my day, it was the slide rule and log books. Using these, I could calculate (e.g.) Reform's chances of winning the next GE divided by the square root of a right angle triangle (which is also the square root of its boiling point).

thenry 07-08-2025 12:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36200582)
Come on admit it, you just used to input a few numbers then turn it upside down to see what word they spelt :D
58008 :D

5318008 even :naughty:

tweetiepooh 07-08-2025 12:57
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36200582)
Calculators, brilliant things that took the hard work out of learning how to do math at school. No longer 3 pages of calculations required, log books thrown in the bin (sine cosine), Trigonometry turned into childs play, Algebra no longer gave you migraine.

Come on admit it, you just used to input a few numbers then turn it upside down to see what word they spelt :D
My we get diverted here. Trouble is calculators could also remove the need to think about what you were doing and why. Looking at a slide rule you could see a log scale and remember that adding logs is equivalent to multiplication.

Carth 07-08-2025 15:19
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36200592)
My we get diverted here. Trouble is calculators could also remove the need to think about what you were doing and why. Looking at a slide rule you could see a log scale and remember that adding logs is equivalent to multiplication.
Yeah, sort of my point in a way.

Kids leaving school/university whatever with qualifications gained by the use of fingers and not the brain. Heck you don't even need to learn English because whatever you now write with has a program to check and correct errors.

Already many people are asking A1 questions to save looking for an answer themselves, and, more worryingly, believing what AI tells them . . and then those people get to vote - probably for whoever the AI suggested :D

pip08456 07-08-2025 19:49
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
1 Attachment(s)
Saw this on X, thought it was appropriate.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1754592504

1andrew1 07-08-2025 23:16
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Reform civil war erupts as Nigel Farage suffers 'Nicola Sturgeon moment'

Reform UK is on the brink of a civil war over the issue of transgender women in female prisons and in a particularly unflattering twist, Nigel Farage has been compared to Nicola Sturgeon. Reform has been engulfed in a trans row ever since the insurgent party's new justice adviser spoke out against a blanket ban on trans women being imprisoned in women's jails.

Vanessa Frake, a former prison governor, said on Monday that some transgender criminals should be imprisoned in women's jails. Farage's backing is understood to have dismayed some party figures leading him to face a party revolt in Scotland. Reform was then blasted by author JK Rowling over its support of housing men in women's prisons, which also goes against the recent Supreme Court ruling.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other...8f700ef8c&ei=8

Paul 07-08-2025 23:26
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36200628)
Saw this on X, thought it was appropriate.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1754592504
LOL, and I can name them as well (they cartoon ones I mean). :D

OLD BOY 08-08-2025 08:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36200637)
Storm in a teacup.

"Clarifying his stance on the matter Farage then took to X on Tuesday to say: "I have never supported men in women's prisons."

Chris 08-08-2025 11:20
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200647)
Storm in a teacup.

"Clarifying his stance on the matter Farage then took to X on Tuesday to say: "I have never supported men in women's prisons."
Ah, that old political chestnut, the ‘clarification’ :rofl:

Sephiroth 08-08-2025 14:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36200655)
Ah, that old political chestnut, the ‘clarification’ :rofl:
Just like the Forum stunt: "Proof? Source?

Hugh 08-08-2025 15:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200647)
Storm in a teacup.

"Clarifying his stance on the matter Farage then took to X on Tuesday to say: "I have never supported men in women's prisons."
What was actually said…

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics...ails-bqplscgkc

Quote:
It came after Frake, a prison governor with 27 years’ experience, told The Times that a blanket ban on trans women being held in female prisons was wrong.

She said that the decision should be taken “on an individual basis” after a risk assessment but that trans prisoners she had overseen were on the whole “accepted” by the rest of the prison population.

She added that those who advocated for a blanket ban “clearly have never stepped foot in a prison and seen how prison runs”.

Asked for his view on the issue, Farage said: “When it comes to trans women in prisons, isn’t it interesting that we run our country with people who become ministers who generally have absolutely no idea of the subject matter that they’re talking about.

“I personally never worked in a prison, so I can’t answer it. But I think you’ll find that the answer you’ll get from somebody who has worked in prisons at the highest possible level is: it’s basically about risk assessment, isn’t it?”

Farage said: “In terms of the problems in prisons, it’s a relatively small one”, to which Frake answered: “Yes.
Farage appears to be supporting Frake’s stance on the issue.

OLD BOY 09-08-2025 13:23
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
The only circumstances in which trans people (male to female) should be allowed to be sent to women’s prisons is if they have completed the surgery.

Chris 09-08-2025 21:55
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36200727)
The only circumstances in which trans people (male to female) should be allowed to be sent to women’s prisons is if they have completed the surgery.
At which point they retain male physical strength, male body mass, and, frequently, the misogynistic hatred of women that (perversely) prompted their so-called ‘transition’.

It would be a disaster waiting to happen.

The only safe place for a transed male is in the special wing of a regular male prison, along with coppers, informants and nonces.

Nice try parroting the latest official Reform plc ‘line to take’ though.

OLD BOY 10-08-2025 20:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36200751)
At which point they retain male physical strength, male body mass, and, frequently, the misogynistic hatred of women that (perversely) prompted their so-called ‘transition’.

It would be a disaster waiting to happen.

The only safe place for a transed male is in the special wing of a regular male prison, along with coppers, informants and nonces.

Nice try parroting the latest official Reform plc ‘line to take’ though.
Not at all, Chris, another conclusion you have jumped to. Surprisingly, I agree with the comments in bold.:Peace:

thenry 26-08-2025 12:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
So Farage and his side kick Zia rubber lips Yusuf have been speaking today. Farage says mass deportation of illegal immigrants. What is his plans for those that have obtained citizenship, a passport already? Farage should go full Trump what's he got to lose the damage is already done! These coward leaders are a danger to society. "Thanks Trump we agree now you said it" :upyours:

papa smurf 26-08-2025 15:18
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36201676)
So Farage and his side kick Zia rubber lips Yusuf have been speaking today. Farage says mass deportation of illegal immigrants. What is his plans for those that have obtained citizenship, a passport already? Farage should go full Trump what's he got to lose the damage is already done! These coward leaders are a danger to society. "Thanks Trump we agree now you said it" :upyours:

the lucky ones will go to ascension island and the unlucky ones the artic or Afghanistan

Itshim 26-08-2025 16:29
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36201684)
the lucky ones will go to ascension island and the unlucky ones the artic or Afghanistan
And what's the issue with that:D

Jaymoss 26-08-2025 17:49
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
If only Labour and the Tories actually made it less attractive for them to keep trying to get here then Farage would not be getting any headspace but both have proven useless and with the hotels emptying and HMOs destroying the rental market for normal people the working class brit has had enough and that is why Reform really have a chance. Like it or not if things do not change we really could see a big Reform protest vote.

The government are approaching landlords trying to get them to evict tenants and change their properties into HMOs for immigrants offering guarantees their property is turned to them in the same condition it is in now and a 5 year contract with £200 per week per room . A friend of mine already lhas HMOs but he solely rents them to people using Doorway the homeless charity as referrals and he was offered all the above literally double the existing rent and her refused it


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