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-   -   Russia has invaded Ukraine (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710768)

1andrew1 02-03-2022 09:11
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36115213)
Why did they single France out?
To try and influence the election, a Putin speciality?

jonbxx 02-03-2022 09:16
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 36115214)
Seems like they are taking pot shots at any country trying to push a few buttons and see who cracks first.

Basically looking for justification for war
Yeah, it's a good old 'divide and conquer' here. Russia has already had a go at Liz Truss and I wouldn't be surprised if Germany will come along very soon as they are the 'old enemy' of Russia.

France is of course a historically uneasy partner of NATO with different parts being in and out from the 50's until 2009 when they fully rejoined. France could be considered one of the more likely countries to not participate in NATO actions along with the UK which has a little recent history on withdrawing from international communities of nations.

Both being nuclear weapon states that have at least some ability to go it alone also helps.

Pierre 02-03-2022 09:37
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Russia will be an economic wasteland in a short time. The best way to stop the Russian war machine is to make it unaffordable.

Many (most of the big ones) shipping lines are now refusing to take or receive containers to Russian ports, which is effectively a "Blockade" by any standard. Pretty much all Western businesses with interests in Russia are either suspending, divesting or shutting them down. Their banks have been frozen out of the SWIFT system.

People can't get cash out of ATMs, the banks are running out of dollars as people try to offload the ruble.

This could go one of many ways, but it either pushes the country to the verge of revolution, or deposing Putin in another way or it backs him further into a corner, further pressure on an unhinged mind that dreams of empire but sees defeat and that could be very dangerous, for everyone.

1andrew1 02-03-2022 09:46
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36115223)
Russia will be an economic wasteland in a short time. The best way to stop the Russian war machine is to make it unaffordable.

Many (most of the big ones) shipping lines are now refusing to take or receive containers to Russian ports, which is effectively a "Blockade" by any standard. Pretty much all Western businesses with interests in Russia are either suspending, divesting or shutting them down. Their banks have been frozen out of the SWIFT system.

People can't get cash out of ATMs, the banks are running out of dollars as people try to offload the ruble.

This could go one of many ways, but it either pushes the country to the verge of revolution, or deposing Putin in another way or it backs him further into a corner, further pressure on an unhinged mind that dreams of empire but sees defeat and that could be very dangerous, for everyone.
I hope it goes this way but Russia's key exports of oil and gas continue. Globally, the wealthy UAE, plus China and India, amongst others, will continue to trade with and supply Russia.

Carth 02-03-2022 10:23
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
If someone said to me "you have no idea what's coming." I'd view that as a threat.

Won't be the first 'soundbite' to bite someone in the arse.

Maybe Biden is pushing the buttons that Putin has placed in front of him.
I've always thought the US were better at bravado and chest thumping than common sense :dozey:

Mick 02-03-2022 11:26
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
Latest UK Intel:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646220329

mrmistoffelees 02-03-2022 12:39
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36115228)
If someone said to me "you have no idea what's coming." I'd view that as a threat.

Won't be the first 'soundbite' to bite someone in the arse.

Maybe Biden is pushing the buttons that Putin has placed in front of him.
I've always thought the US were better at bravado and chest thumping than common sense :dozey:
Would you rather tell them what's coming? seems a rather silly thing to do ?

Or, perhaps he should have said nothing at all?

Or, perhaps, you're having a go at Biden/US for the sake of having a go?

Hugh 02-03-2022 12:45
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36115228)
If someone said to me "you have no idea what's coming." I'd view that as a threat.

Won't be the first 'soundbite' to bite someone in the arse.

Maybe Biden is pushing the buttons that Putin has placed in front of him.
I've always thought the US were better at bravado and chest thumping than common sense :dozey:
Pretty sure it was meant as a threat.

mrmistoffelees 02-03-2022 12:50
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115236)
Pretty sure it was meant as a threat.
Be interested to see how much further they can ratchet up.

At some point NATO/The west are going to face an agonising decision, namely do we get involved in a military conflict with Russia? Or, do we abandon Ukraine to the Russians..

Whilst something is clearly off with the Russian approach, ultimately, with enough resources/time they will take Ukraine. We can give the Ukranians weapons & humanitarian aid all we want but if there is not a reasonably trained force to be able to deploy them.....

1andrew1 02-03-2022 12:52
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
No surprise - Chelsea is put up for sale.
https://twitter.com/i/events/1498971925753868288

mrmistoffelees 02-03-2022 12:56
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115239)
No surprise - Chelsea is put up for sale.
https://twitter.com/i/events/1498971925753868288
He's apparently terrified of being sanctioned, not half as terrified as the Ukranian citizens are I'd wager.

Hugh 02-03-2022 12:57
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36115238)
Be interested to see how much further they can ratchet up.

At some point NATO/The west are going to face an agonising decision, namely do we get involved in a military conflict with Russia? Or, do we abandon Ukraine to the Russians..

Whilst something is clearly off with the Russian approach, ultimately, with enough resources/time they will take Ukraine. We can give the Ukranians weapons & humanitarian aid all we want but if there is not a reasonably trained force to be able to deploy them.....
I think (not based on evidence) that the neighbouring Slavic Countries may take a more "active" role if it gets worse for Ukraine - they all remember what it was like being part of the Soviet Hegemony as satellite/subjugated States.

The challenge will be if those Slavic States which are NATO members are attacked in turn by the Russians, they can then invoke the NATO Treaty which states it will help defend any member of NATO which is attacked.

Flip-side is that if they don’t do anything, they are probably pretty sure they’ll be next, so just Putin the problem off won’t solve anything medium to long term.

mrmistoffelees 02-03-2022 13:01
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115242)
I think (not based on evidence) that the neighbouring Slavic Countries May take a more "active" role if it gets worse for Ukraine - they all remember what it was like being part of the Soviet Hegemony as satellite/subjugated States.

The challenge will be if those Slavic States which are NATO members are attacked in turn by the Russians, they can then invoke the NATO Treaty which states it will help defend any member of NATO which is attacked.

Flip-side is that if they don’t do anything, they are probably pretty sure they’ll be next, so just Putin the problem off won’t solve anything medium to long term.
Not sure if pun intended but have a like :D

For sure, it's a race between the non military action from UK/EU/US/ROW to see if they can force a withdrawal or force a regime change before Putin takes Ukraine & focuses attentions elsewhere.

Hugh 02-03-2022 13:31
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36115244)
Not sure if pun intended but have a like :D

For sure, it's a race between the non military action from UK/EU/US/ROW to see if they can force a withdrawal or force a regime change before Putin takes Ukraine & focuses attentions elsewhere.
Intended…

Here’s a good (imho) thread on perhaps why it’s not going so well for the Russian ground forces (most of whom are inexperienced conscripts) in Ukraine (written by a Ukrainian living in Australia).

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...512765953.html

Quote:
Some thoughts on the scenes we're seeing on social media of armed Russians, confronted by unarmed, protesting Ukrainians, being pushed back.

Again, these are just insights from someone watching from afar, who just happens to know Ukrainians and Russians and Soviet mythology.

In the lead-up to this invasion of Ukraine, Russian state media was wall-to-wall all about how the Russian forces were going to be welcomed by ordinary Ukrainians. Like when the Soviets liberated European nations from the Nazis, freed concentration camps.

Genuinely, I think, many of these young, unhardened Russian soldiers expected a heroes' welcome from ordinary Ukrainians who were being oppressed by an evil government. Instead, they are finding ordinary Ukrainians who are responding to them like they are the bad guys. Now, if you think Americans glorify their military - folks, you ain't seen nothing yet. The Soviet troops who fought the Nazis in WW2 are absolutely deified in Russia. These kids in uniforms thought they were going to be welcomed by similar scenes.

This is super confusing for the soldiers. They believed they were the good guys, coming to liberate oppressed Ukrainians from their Nazi overlords. They believed the Kremlin, which said they'd be welcomed, thanked. Instead, they are being berated as "оккупанты" - occupiers. And all of this is very confusing. To shoot someone, to kill them - it can't be that easy. In war, the other side is usually demonised as the enemy, as different, as other, as evil. That makes it easier to kill them. But Ukrainians aren't others for Russians.

Particularly in the areas we're seeing these images coming out of, these Ukrainians speak Russian. They look Russian. The streets look like home. The shops look like home. Probably, some of these Russian forces have family in Ukraine. They've holidayed in Odessa, they’ve swum in the Black Sea. How do you shoot someone point-blank, who is unarmed, who is looking you in the eyes and telling you "Go home" and "What are you doing here?" That's suddenly a very difficult question for the Russian troops to answer.

I wrote in my previous long thread that Putin miscalculated. As a result of that, the propaganda arm of the Russian state has been feeding Russians the wrong messaging. They have been telling Russians they are the defenders of Ukrainians. Now, these troops' eyes and ears are showing them that's a lie. So how do you get infantry - key to wars that are waged in heavily populated and built up areas like these modern metropolises of Kyiv and Kharkiv - to shoot people they've been told they're there to defend?

The Kremlin's other propaganda message was that Ukraine posed an existential threat to Russia. That they needed to create a buffer between NATO (a proxy for the US) and the EU. But there's a problem with this line of messaging: Russian exceptionalism. Russian exceptionalism was at its height after WW2. It took a big hit when the USSR collapsed. Putin's whole schtick, his selling point to Russians is that he has Made Russia Great Again. So how do you sell to MRGA Russians that their tiny neighbor is a real threat to them? It's like trying to convince Americans that Canada is going to attack. Or Australians that New Zealand is about to take over.

Hence the need to make Ukraine a proxy for the US and NATO. That argument is more powerful, it rings a little truer. And it no doubt helps fighter pilots drop cluster bombs on Kharkiv.

But so far, this war hasn't been fought so much from a distance. It's being fought face to face. And it's hard to remember that the Ukrainian granny, who looks just like your Russian granny, with a kerchief around her head and tears in her eyes, is some Western proxy.

It's hard to shoot babushka in cold blood.

Blackshep 02-03-2022 13:45
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Ukraine has planned for what comes after possible defeat I'm not going to go into any detail but if Russia thinks the fighting ends if they achieve their goals they are in for an even bigger shock then they have had already. What's becoming very evident is that the Russian military is not this unstoppable efficient steamroller they have many issue's from equipment, training, organisation and logistics all are currently being demonstrated and compounded.

This has done huge damage to Putin it's continuing to do damage and sanctions haven't fully hit yet so his problem's are mounting and while he couldn't care less what ordinary Russian's say or do (that illusion he spent time and effort creating) he does care what his rich cronies say. To say the situation in both Ukraine and Russia is fluid is understating it but there's a lot going on that isn't making it to media or public briefings that will have a great impact on events. Even if Russia succeeds today and declares victory the damage is done confidence in Putin has been very seriously dented in the Russian people, the wealthy cronies and more importantly the Russian military.

1andrew1 02-03-2022 13:52
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshep (Post 36115254)
Ukraine has planned for what comes after possible defeat I'm not going to go into any detail but if Russia thinks the fighting ends if they achieve their goals they are in for an even bigger shock then they have had already. What's becoming very evident is that the Russian military is not this unstoppable efficient steamroller they have many issue's from equipment, training, organisation and logistics all are currently being demonstrated and compounded.

This has done huge damage to Putin it's continuing to do damage and sanctions haven't fully hit yet so his problem's are mounting and while he couldn't care less what ordinary Russian's say or do (that illusion he spent time and effort creating) he does care what his rich cronies say. To say the situation in both Ukraine and Russia is fluid is understating it but there's a lot going on that isn't making it to media or public briefings that will have a great impact on events. Even if Russia succeeds today and declares victory the damage is done confidence in Putin has been very seriously dented in the Russian people, the wealthy cronies and more importantly the Russian military.
No evidence whatsover that he listens the oligarchs.

Carth 02-03-2022 15:40
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36115232)
Would you rather tell them what's coming? seems a rather silly thing to do ?

Or, perhaps he should have said nothing at all?

Or, perhaps, you're having a go at Biden/US for the sake of having a go?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115236)
Pretty sure it was meant as a threat.
IMO it was rather a silly thing to say, especially to a person now regarded to be a little unhinged and under duress because it all seems to be going pear shaped.

Will Putin take it to mean even more economic sanctions . . . or a wave of incoming nukes? ;)

RichardCoulter 02-03-2022 16:42
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Reports that RT has just been removed from all UK TV platforms :D

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36115238)
Be interested to see how much further they can ratchet up.

At some point NATO/The west are going to face an agonising decision, namely do we get involved in a military conflict with Russia? Or, do we abandon Ukraine to the Russians.

Whilst something is clearly off with the Russian approach, ultimately, with enough resources/time they will take Ukraine. We can give the Ukranians weapons & humanitarian aid all we want but if there is not a reasonably trained force to be able to deploy them.....
Totally agree. If we decide that abandoning the Ukraine to the Russians is the best course of action, I doubt that Putin will leave it there having got away with it once. Then we will have to make the same decision again.

I'm hoping that his own people will bring him down as, if not, we are looking at WWIII now or in the future, nuclear or otherwise.

Chris 02-03-2022 16:50
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36115269)
Reports that RT has just been removed from all UK TV platforms :D

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:03 ----------



Totally agree. If we decide that abandoning the Ukraine to the Russians is the best course of action, I doubt that Putin will leave it there having got away with it once. Then we will have to make the same decision again.

I'm hoping that his own people will bring him down as, if not, we are looking at WWIII now or in the future, nuclear or otherwise.
Further to your queries about internet access last night, a truckload of Starlink sat broadband dishes have arrived in Ukraine, courtesy of their owner, Elon Musk.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-60561162

Starlink is based on the latest low-earth-orbit technology, and uses hundreds of fast moving satellites that would be extremely difficult for a hostile actor to jam. The connection is fast and reliable (I have friends using it very happily in Wales, where there’s scant ADSL or 4G). It does, however, require a specially designed, motorised dish. You can’t use a TV dish, or even the sort of fixed sat broadband dish that has previously been used to bring broadband to hard-to-reach places.

RichardCoulter 02-03-2022 16:56
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
That's good news as, even if the internet is taken out or Rusdia succeed in taking control of Ukrainia, they will still be able to let the West know what is happening.

It's a shame that most DTH users won't have access to this system though.

Pierre 02-03-2022 17:16
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36115238)
At some point NATO/The west are going to face an agonising decision, namely do we get involved in a military conflict with Russia? Or, do we abandon Ukraine to the Russians..
Russia may have the might to push into Ukraine, take a few major cities and potentially depose the government.

But do they have numbers to hold the country. Does he want to become embroiled in a partisan guerrilla conflict that would continue for years. Any resistance would be well armed, financed and trained by the a West. Mercenaries of all nationalities I’m sure would join too.

This would not end with the fall of Kiev.

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115250)
Intended…

Here’s a good (imho) thread on perhaps why it’s not going so well for the Russian ground forces (most of whom are inexperienced conscripts) in Ukraine (written by a Ukrainian living in Australia).

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...512765953.html
That’s a good analysis.

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshep (Post 36115254)
Ukraine has planned for what comes after possible defeat I'm not going to go into any detail but if Russia thinks the fighting ends if they achieve their goals they are in for an even bigger shock then they have had already. What's becoming very evident is that the Russian military is not this unstoppable efficient steamroller they have many issue's from equipment, training, organisation and logistics all are currently being demonstrated and compounded.

This has done huge damage to Putin it's continuing to do damage and sanctions haven't fully hit yet so his problem's are mounting and while he couldn't care less what ordinary Russian's say or do (that illusion he spent time and effort creating) he does care what his rich cronies say. To say the situation in both Ukraine and Russia is fluid is understating it but there's a lot going on that isn't making it to media or public briefings that will have a great impact on events. Even if Russia succeeds today and declares victory the damage is done confidence in Putin has been very seriously dented in the Russian people, the wealthy cronies and more importantly the Russian military.
Indeed, Putin has only driven his country into a Cul-de-sac.

mrmistoffelees 02-03-2022 18:26
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36115277)
Russia may have the might to push into Ukraine, take a few major cities and potentially depose the government.

But do they have numbers to hold the country. Does he want to become embroiled in a partisan guerrilla conflict that would continue for years. Any resistance would be well armed, financed and trained by the a West. Mercenaries of all nationalities I’m sure would join too.

This would not end with the fall of Kiev.

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------



That’s a good analysis.

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------


Indeed, Putin has only driven his country into a Cul-de-sac.

You're applying rational to a man who has quite clearly lost the plot......

TimeLord2018 02-03-2022 18:29
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Roman Abramovich confirms he will sell Chelsea - with all 'net proceeds' to benefit victims of Ukraine war
https://news.sky.com/story/roman-abr...e-war-12555801

Blackshep 02-03-2022 18:32
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Putin has a close circle of oligarch's and military officer's that are the bedrock of his support and are essential for him to remain in power even though he's put much effort into the illusion of "a man alone". Right now it's anyone's guess to what extent he's taking advise but if he isolates himself and attempt's to further escalate it will create an unstable and unpredictable situation that nobody other then Putin is prepared to risk.

Mr K 02-03-2022 18:34
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLord2018 (Post 36115292)
Roman Abramovich confirms he will sell Chelsea - with all 'net proceeds' to benefit victims of Ukraine war
https://news.sky.com/story/roman-abr...e-war-12555801
He's selling a lot of his UK property too, before he gets collared. Basically he's taking the money and running. As for 'net proceeds' if he sells at a loss they'll he none.
Suspect he has a nice semi-detached in Leningrad to escape to...

Blackshep 02-03-2022 20:48
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
This would be the perfect time to introduce crisis visa's giving entry while this continues with an obligation for them to return to Ukraine when normality is resumed, that normality being a free and fairly elected government in Ukraine.

Mick 03-03-2022 08:19
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
Latest UK Intel:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646295511

Hugh 03-03-2022 12:39
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
Another interesting thread I came across, which goes done way to explaining perhaps why the 40 mile convoy hadn’t moved much…

https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/sta...ubcJGaaQWk10-w

Quote:
This is a thread that will explain the implied poor Russian Army truck maintenance practices based on this photo of a Pantsir-S1 wheeled gun-missile system's right rear pair of tires below & the operational implications during the Ukrainian mud season.

For the sin of being the new guy, I was the DCMA quality auditor in charge of the US Army's FMTV "vehicle exercise program" at the contractor manufacturing them from the Mid-1990's to the mid-2000's Then we got more new guys.

Short form: Military trucks need to be turned over and moved once a month for preventative maintenance reasons.

In particular you want to exercise the central tire air inflation system (CTIS) to see if lines have leaks or had insect/vermin nests blocking the system. One of the biggest reasons for the repositioning, per TACOM logistic Representatives, was that direct sunlight ages truck tires. The repositioning of Trucks in close parking prevents a lot of this sun rotting and cycling the CTIS keeps the tire sidewalls supple.

When you leave military truck tires in one place for months on end. The side walls get rotted/brittle such that using low tire pressure setting for any appreciable distance will cause the tires to fail catastrophically via rips.

Now look at the same Pantsir-S1 tire sidewalls after the Ukrainians tried to tow or drive it out of the mud. The right rear tire fell apart because the rips in it were too big for the CTIS to keep aired up. No one exercised that vehicle for 1 year.

There is a huge operational level implication in this. If the Russian Army was too corrupt to exercise a Pantsir-S1. They were too corrupt to exercise the trucks & wheeled AFV's now in Ukraine.

The Russians simply cannot risk them off road during the Rasputitsa/Mud season. And there is photographic evidence of this. There are 60(+) Russian army trucks crowded & parked on this raised road bed to avoid the fate of the mud-bogged Pantsir-S1.

Given the demonstrated levels of corruption in truck maintenance. There is no way in h--l that there are enough tires in the Russian army logistical system.

So their wheeled AFV/truck park is as road bound as Russian Army columns were in the 1st Russo-Finnish War. What that means is that as long as and where ever the Spring Rasputitsa is happening, the Russian Army attack front is three wheeled AFV's wide.

When the Ukrainians can block the road with ATGM destroyed vehicles. They can move down either side of the road like Finns in 1939 destroying Russian truck columns.

The Crimea is a desert and the South Ukrainian coastal areas are dryer. So we are not seeing this there. But elsewhere the Russians have a huge problem for the next 4-to-6 weeks.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646310985

ps - those Pantsir-S1’s cost $15 million each…

papa smurf 03-03-2022 12:43
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
'Dead or alive!' Russian businessman places $1m bounty on Vladimir Putin’s head

The businessman posted: “I promise to pay $1,000,000 to the officer(s) who, complying with their constitutional duty, arrest(s) Putin as a war criminal under Russian and international laws.

“Putin is not the Russian president as he came to power as the result of a special operation of blowing up apartment buildings in Russia, then violated the Constitution by eliminating free elections and murdering his opponents.”

He then attached a photo of Vladimir Putin to the post, pinned with the caption: “Wanted: Dead or alive. Vladimir Putin for mass murder.”


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...kedin-facebook

Hugh 03-03-2022 13:22
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
I think this wins the "Worst Twitter Post About The Ukraine War" competition.

(Melville is a political commentator and publicist).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1646313690

Chris 03-03-2022 13:24
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Every generation has its Lord Haw Haw ...

Hugh 03-03-2022 13:40
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
Georgia officially applies for EU Membership.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1646314543

https://twitter.com/makab__/status/1...576871942?s=21

The poster is the Chairman of the Georgian Parliament (sort of like our Prime Minister).

Mick 03-03-2022 13:59
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
BREAKING: Russia's intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service, has drafted plans for public executions in Ukraine after cities are captured, per a European intelligence official - Kitty Donaldson, Bloomberg.

jonbxx 03-03-2022 15:21
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
I have been enjoying this site over the last few days. It's a flight tracking site and if you click on the square with 'U' on it at the top of the map, you filter for military flights.

There has been an almost constant presence of airborne early warning, ground radar, electronic intelligence and tanker aircraft pootling near the Poland-Ukraine border. You sometimes seen surveillance drones appear and disappear and special forces helicopters out on trips. You can only see aircraft that have their beacons on and of course any enemy can see the same. There's a clear message to Russia that NATO is watching...

Paul 03-03-2022 15:45
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115389)
I think this wins the "Worst Twitter Post About The Ukraine War" competition.

(Melville is a political commentator and publicist).
Is it actually true, did he provide any real evidence ?

TheDaddy 03-03-2022 15:47
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36115403)
Is it actually true, did he provide any real evidence ?
Does it even matter if it is true?

1andrew1 03-03-2022 15:55
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36115404)
Does it even matter if it is true?
It doesn't - straw-clutching even if true. It's like making someone a cup of tea after breaking into their house, mugging them and killing the kids.

Paul 03-03-2022 16:00
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36115404)
Does it even matter if it is true?
Of course it matters.
Or does the truth only matter when it suits ?

If its true, hes simply reporting facts, however much people may dislike them.
If its false, then its propaganda & misinformation, and he needs to get pulled up for it.

Hugh 03-03-2022 16:25
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36115407)
Of course it matters.
Or does the truth only matter when it suits ?

If its true, hes simply reporting facts, however much people may dislike them.
If its false, then its propaganda & misinformation, and he needs to get pulled up for it.
But it’s like an arsonist burning down your house then expecting thanks for providing you with a tent.

There wouldn’t be any need for Russian humanitarian aid if the Russians weren’t blowing the shit out of the country…

He was retweeting a TASS news story, which hadn’t been validated - also, 30 tons is one articulated lorry’s worth.

Mick 03-03-2022 16:28
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
LATEST: French President Emmanuel Macron has spoke to Russian President, Vladimir Putin via phone and urged him to stop his miscalculated war in Ukraine, Putin had stated to him that Russia wants all of Ukraine and the worst is yet to come. - Adam Parsons, Sky News European corespondent.

TheDaddy 03-03-2022 16:30
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36115407)
Of course it matters.
Or does the truth only matter when it suits ?

If its true, hes simply reporting facts, however much people may dislike them.
If its false, then its propaganda & misinformation, and he needs to get pulled up for it.
The truth matters when it's relevant, they delivered 30 tons of aid, so what, if they hadn't invaded and caused devastation they wouldn't need to have bothered, James no-mark can stick his facts imo

1andrew1 03-03-2022 17:02
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36115411)
The truth matters when it's relevant, they delivered 30 tons of aid, so what, if they hadn't invaded and caused devastation they wouldn't need to have bothered, James no-mark can stick his facts imo
:clap::clap::clap:

Hugh 03-03-2022 17:25
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ip-2022-03-03/

Quote:
With war on its doorstep, Moldova applies for EU membership

CHISINAU, March 3 (Reuters) - Moldovan President Maia Sandu signed a formal application for her country to join the European Union on Thursday, charting a pro-Western course hastened by Russia's invasion of neighbouring Ukraine.

Sandu's move comes days after Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy signed a request for immediate EU membership as it battles invading Russian forces. read more

Moscow is fiercely opposed to the eastern expansion of both the EU and especially of NATO, which it sees as a direct threat to its own national security.

Sandu, the prime minister and the parliamentary speaker all signed the document during a briefing in the capital Chisinau, where pro-Russian and pro-EU politicians have vied for control since Moldova won independence from the Soviet Union in 1991.

"It took 30 years for Moldova to reach maturity, but today the country is ready to take responsibility for its own future," said Sandu, before holding up the signed document to the television cameras.


---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ian_hands.html

Quote:
German anti-tank Panzerfaust 3 and Stinger missiles now in Ukrainian hands

According to a tweet from Felix Woessner, the weapon delivery from Germany via The Netherlands has arrived in Ukraine. 1000 anti-tank 'Panzerfaust 3' and 500 FIM-92 Stinger air defense missiles are now in Ukrainian hands.

Itshim 03-03-2022 17:45
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Why would the guy in my loca! Computer shop ask me to us Russia as my VPN choice ?

Mick 03-03-2022 17:50
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
BREAKING: President Putin has vowed to ‘destroy this anti-Russia’ created by the West.

Also has claimed his military advance in Ukraine is going to plan.- AFP News Agency.

Mr Putin, your 40KM convoy in Ukraine has stalled, because they have reportedly ran out of fuel, your ‘yes man’ generals are lying to you.

Hugh 03-03-2022 17:51
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
It’s going to plan - just not to his plan…

Mick 03-03-2022 18:04
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
From Official Defence Intelligence of Ukraine:

Quote:
Special Forces of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine destroyed 10 more enemy BMDs in Gostomel

The battle for control of the city of Gostomel continues. As of 6.30 pm, 10 enemy combat vehicles have already been destroyed in the area of the local glass factory

The battle is being waged by a combined group of special forces led by the GUR of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine and local resistance groups prepared by them.

💪 In total, during the day, special forces destroyed 20 enemy combat vehicles in Gostomel.

Glory to Ukraine! 🇺🇦
Death to the occupiers!
2/2

Blackshep 03-03-2022 18:08
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
The Russian high command is in a difficult position and I don't expect them to do anything in regards to Ukraine but if Putin escalates elsewhere after Ukraine they might not have the option of doing nothing. The Russian military is not united behind Putin and as much as he'd like to be rid of some senior officer's their competence and loyalty from the rank's doesn't allow him to. Win, lose or draw in Ukraine the damage is done and that nalvany got a message out of prison tell's you control is slipping away albeit slowly for now.

Hom3r 03-03-2022 18:10
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
BBC or Sky the other day reported that one woman was giving Russian soldiers flower seeds, telling them that when they die, something beautiful will grow from where they fall.

Mick 03-03-2022 18:17
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Canada has decided to help Ukraine:

- 4500 M72 missile systems
- 7500 hand grenade launchers
- Funding for modern satellite imagery to help the Ukrainian military track the movement of Russian troops. - Ukraine Army Information.

Blackshep 03-03-2022 18:38
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
The problem isn't a shortage of equipment anymore it's getting it into Ukraine and training the Ukrainians to use it effectively which is becoming more difficult and why Vlad the prat is increasing his rhetoric attempting to dissuade us from getting the kit in there.

Paul 03-03-2022 18:41
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115409)
But it’s like an arsonist burning down your house then expecting thanks for providing you with a tent.
Completely irrelevant to the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115409)
also, 30 tons is one articulated lorry’s worth.
Again, irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115409)
He was retweeting a TASS news story, which hadn’t been validated
Well we finally got there. So most likely not true then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36115411)
The truth matters when it's relevant
Like I said, only when it suits you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36115411)
James no-mark can stick his facts imo
But is it a fact ?
You may not care if what you are told is real, some people do.
It was a simple enough question that you, and others, were unwilling to answer.
You seem more interested in anti Russian ranting than actually figuring out if something is true or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115416)
:clap::clap::clap:
You really have no clue do you. :rolleyes:

Blackshep 03-03-2022 18:44
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
I wonder what 30 tons of aid is as a percentage of munitions tonnage fired.

Jaymoss 03-03-2022 18:52
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36115423)
Why would the guy in my loca! Computer shop ask me to us Russia as my VPN choice ?
well there can be good reason to use Russia as a VON if buying certain digital media in rubles but if you are not doing that I dunno why he would tell you to

TheDaddy 03-03-2022 18:54
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36115438)
Completely irrelevant to the point.

Again, irrelevant.


Well we finally got there. So most likely not true then.


Like I said, only when it suits you.


But is it a fact ?
You may not care if what you are told is real, some people do.
It was a simple enough question that you, and others, were unwilling to answer.
You seem more interested in anti Russian ranting than actually figuring out if something is true or not.


You really have no clue do you. :rolleyes:
I'm not unwilling to answer, I just don't find it relevant and can't see why any one else would tbh, it's not like it evens the score or anything, like I said they've sent a truck load of stuff, big deal and truth doesn't only matter when it suits, imo it matters in context and in proportion to the circumstances that surround it in matters as serious as this

Paul 03-03-2022 18:57
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
You dont find the truth relevant in a war .... ok.

Itshim 03-03-2022 18:58
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36115449)
well there can be good reason to use Russia as a VON if buying certain digital media in rubles but if you are not doing that I dunno why he would tell you to
Have no idea but while in there he asked three people to do it. Said he had been asked by a "friend" . Just wants "everyone" to use a Russian address for VPN . So is there any harm to me ( selfish I know) if I did ?

Hugh 03-03-2022 19:11
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36115455)
Have no idea but while in there he asked three people to do it. Said he had been asked by a "friend" . Just wants "everyone" to use a Russian address for VPN . So is there any harm to me ( selfish I know) if I did ?
Why not ask him? There may be a valid reason (I can’t think of one, and I could think of a reason why I wouldn’t, but not conclusively…).

TheDaddy 03-03-2022 19:15
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36115454)
You dont find the truth relevant in a war .... ok.
That's not what I said and if all you're going to bring to the discussion is word games and pedantry then I've no interest in discussing it further with you

Mick 03-03-2022 19:18
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Zelensky: “Close the sky or give us aircraft.”

While speaking with media, President Zelensky called on NATO to close the sky over Ukraine. He asked how many more Ukrainians have to be injured for this decision to be made. If it can't be made, "give us planes,” he said. - Kyiv Independent.

mrmistoffelees 03-03-2022 19:20
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36115466)
Zelensky: “Close the sky or give us aircraft.”

While speaking with media, President Zelensky called on NATO to close the sky over Ukraine. He asked how many more Ukrainians have to be injured for this decision to be made. If it can't be made, "give us planes,” he said. - Kyiv Independent.
He knows NATO won’t implement it.

Mick 03-03-2022 19:25
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
BREAKING: Russian oil giant Lukoil calls for halt to Ukraine war in potential big blow for Putin. - AFP News Agency.

Paul 03-03-2022 19:35
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36115462)
That's not what I said and if all you're going to bring to the discussion is word games and pedantry then I've no interest in discussing it further with you
Its exactly what you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Is it actually true, did he provide any real evidence ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
Does it even matter if it is true?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
If its true, hes simply reporting facts, however much people may dislike them.
If its false, then its propaganda & misinformation, and he needs to get pulled up for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
James no-mark can stick his facts imo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
But is it a fact ?
You may not care if what you are told is real, some people do.
It was a simple enough question that you, and others, were unwilling to answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
I'm not unwilling to answer, I just don't find it relevant and can't see why any one else would tbh
There were no word games, as detailed above.
I asked a simple question, requiring a simple answer.

You however went on a wild "I dont care, its not relevant" rant - no idea why.
Hugh eventually provided the source, which pretty much made it unlikely to be true anyway, so yeah, feel free to bail out.

---------- Post added at 19:35 ---------- Previous post was at 19:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36115467)
He knows NATO won’t implement it.
NATO have already made it clear to him, the other day.
Theres a big difference between giving them weapons to fight, and doing the shooting ourselves.
A difference that leads to full European war.

TheDaddy 03-03-2022 20:03
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36115473)
Its exactly what you said.


There were no word games, as detailed above.
I asked a simple question, requiring a simple answer.

You however went on a wild "I dont care, its not relevant" rant - no idea why.
Hugh eventually provided the source, which pretty much made it unlikely to be true anyway, so yeah, feel free to bail
I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and clarify, I think they did send the aid, it's such a trivial gesture it's hardly worth lying about and said so twice

Quote:
they delivered 30 tons of aid, so what
Quote:
like I said they've sent a truck load of stuff, big deal
Like others said as well I don't consider them doing do so as being in any way relevant, in context of the damage they've caused it isn't apportionate or appropriate to be giving them credit for doing so, it's meaningless as in it doesn't matter, wonder if that could be the reason why

Quote:
we won't be hearing about it in the news
In terms up updates I'd rather get them from Mick than this no-mark political commentator

Mick 03-03-2022 20:31
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Centre for Defence Strategies: Russia will likely impose martial law on March 4.

The Ukrainian think tank also expects no progress in negotiations between Ukraine and Russia. Imposing martial law will let Russian authorities prevent possible mass anti-war protests.- Kyiv Independent.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

Economist says Russian invasion could lead to largest wheat shortage in history.

The invasion will cause a massive supply shock and nothing can be done in the short term to prevent it, according to @ScottIrwinUI, as quoted by Bloomberg.

Russia and Ukraine account for a quarter of wheat and one-fifth of corn production worldwide. - Kyiv Independent.

Damien 03-03-2022 21:25
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
What's the logic in not giving Ukraine more aircraft? Is it just cost or are we worried that if our actual plans, albeit piloted by Ukrainian pilots, shoot down Russians it's too close to us being involved?

Chris 03-03-2022 21:41
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36115491)
What's the logic in not giving Ukraine more aircraft? Is it just cost or are we worried that if our actual plans, albeit piloted by Ukrainian pilots, shoot down Russians it's too close to us being involved?
There has to be a risk of the Russians making plausible claims that there are actually nato pilots in the planes. Frankly, there might have to be - these are extremely complex machines. It’s not like parking a Golf and getting behind the wheel of a Focus. If they did turn them over to Ukrainian pilots, there’s still the problem that an F16 is a very visible symbol of American military technology. It’s not a commodity item like a rocket launcher. And with pilots unused to the hardware, there might be significant losses of extremely expensive equipment for relatively little gain. It probably makes more sense to spend that sort of money on 1,000s of SAMs and deal with the Russian Air Force from the ground.

Hugh 03-03-2022 21:52
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/...ng-2022-03-03/

Quote:
China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank freezes Russia lending

LONDON, March 3 (Reuters) - Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) said on Thursday it has put all activities relating to Russia and Belarus on hold and under review in the wake of the current conflict in Ukraine.

The Beijing headquarted AIIB said in a statement that its management would do its utmost to safeguard the financial integrity of AIIB, against the backdrop of the evolving economic and financial situation.

"Under these circumstances, and in the best interests of the Bank, Management has decided that all activities relating to Russia and Belarus are on hold and under review."

China is the largest shareholder in the development bank holding 26.5% of its voting power.

Damien 03-03-2022 21:53
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Makes sense.

I suspect we're also keeping an eye on what happens if Ukraine falls which is likely. Those planes require an airfield, maintenance, re-fueling none of which is suited to an insurgent campaign. Probably better to arm them with weapons they can use on the streets.

Blackshep 03-03-2022 22:01
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
No western country is going to provide front line aircraft of any sort if for no other reason we don't want the Russian's getting their hands on them. Which aircraft should we send?, apart from old stock's of soviet era aircraft in former communist eastern Europe that would be completely useless we can't send anything else it isn't just training the pilot's we'd have to supply advanced munition's and experienced ground crew for the maintenance and training and honestly there isn't the time to do it.

People are be crying what is happening in Ukraine while calling for NATO to implement a no fly zone that would cause a much wider and destructive war where's the sense.

Chris 03-03-2022 22:01
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36115494)
Makes sense.

I suspect we're also keeping an eye on what happens if Ukraine falls which is likely. Those planes require an airfield, maintenance, re-fueling none of which is suited to an insurgent campaign. Probably better to arm them with weapons they can use on the streets.
Exactly. Huge quantities of material likely to be of use to insurgents is going to be more effective than planes that are difficult to operate and probably impossible to repair.

The question of whether Ukraine falls is an interesting one - how would we judge when that has happened? Kyiv may well fall and a puppet government may be installed there, but will its writ truly run across the whole country? I suspect a Russian-controlled Ukraine will be a somewhat worse experience for them than Soviet Afghanistan was.

Paul 03-03-2022 22:06
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36115498)
... planes that are difficult to operate and probably impossible to repair.
They are also likely to be shot down pretty quicky when flown by inexperienced pilots, plus Russia would quickly target any airfields they use.

Mick 03-03-2022 22:38
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646347028

Damien 03-03-2022 22:43
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36115498)
The question of whether Ukraine falls is an interesting one - how would we judge when that has happened? Kyiv may well fall and a puppet government may be installed there, but will its writ truly run across the whole country? I suspect a Russian-controlled Ukraine will be a somewhat worse experience for them than Soviet Afghanistan was.
I think we're talking about a point where the Russians nominally establish the first signs of whatever they view as the long-term plan for Ukraine to be (or if they somehow decide to simply leave). If we assume they install either a puppet government for the whole country or divide it up into two that'll be when it moves to the next phase, likely one of the Russians trying to brutally suppress insurgents.

The lack of any obvious solution does suggest this was a spectacular misjudgement. They probably expected this to be easy and a puppet Government to be installed and established before the West could agree on a single sanction.

They can't hold the country without troops which will cause, as you say, a modern equivalent of Soviet Afghanistan further depleting their armies, wealth and political stability at home.

I wonder what our endgame is? Do we lift sanctions anytime soon? Even if Russia withdraws I can't see us allowing them back whilst Putin is in charge because he'll do this again. Are we stuck in this position until Putin is kicked out and how long can this unity survive before some Government gets tempted by cheap oil? Especially when this huge public support dims and the domestic political costs of dealing with Russia reduce?

Chris 03-03-2022 22:49
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36115505)
I think we're talking about a point where the Russians nominally establish the first signs of whatever they view as the long-term plan for Ukraine to be (or if they somehow decide to simply leave). If we assume they install either a puppet government for the whole country or divide it up into two that'll be when it moves to the next phase, likely one of the Russians trying to brutally suppress insurgents.

The lack of any obvious solution does suggest this was a spectacular misjudgement. They probably expected this to be easy and a puppet Government to be installed and established before the West could agree on a single sanction.

They can't hold the country without troops which will cause, as you say, a modern equivalent of Soviet Afghanistan further depleting their armies, wealth and political stability at home.

I wonder what our endgame is? Do we lift sanctions anytime soon? Even if Russia withdraws I can't see us allowing them back whilst Putin is in charge because he'll do this again. Are we stuck in this position until Putin is kicked out and how long can this unity survive before some Government gets tempted by cheap oil? Especially when this huge public support dims and the domestic political costs of dealing with Russia reduce?
If it comes to it we may have to wait him out. He’s 69 and clearly well past his sharpest. Eventually he will go, and whoever replaces him will inevitably wonder how he can improve the lot of his people and ask how sanctions might be rolled back. After all, the mess in Ukraine won’t be that person’s legacy and they won’t have the same motivation to maintain it.

TheDaddy 03-03-2022 23:22
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshep (Post 36115497)
No western country is going to provide front line aircraft of any sort if for no other reason we don't want the Russian's getting their hands on them. Which aircraft should we send?, apart from old stock's of soviet era aircraft in former communist eastern Europe that would be completely useless we can't send anything else it isn't just training the pilot's we'd have to supply advanced munition's and experienced ground crew for the maintenance and training and honestly there isn't the time to do it.

People are be crying what is happening in Ukraine while calling for NATO to implement a no fly zone that would cause a much wider and destructive war where's the sense.
I have heard it speculated that Poland could supply them their planes and the EU replace their old outdated planes with shiney new up to date ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36115505)
I think we're talking about a point where the Russians nominally establish the first signs of whatever they view as the long-term plan for Ukraine to be (or if they somehow decide to simply leave). If we assume they install either a puppet government for the whole country or divide it up into two that'll be when it moves to the next phase, likely one of the Russians trying to brutally suppress insurgents.

The lack of any obvious solution does suggest this was a spectacular misjudgement. They probably expected this to be easy and a puppet Government to be installed and established before the West could agree on a single sanction.

They can't hold the country without troops which will cause, as you say, a modern equivalent of Soviet Afghanistan further depleting their armies, wealth and political stability at home.

I wonder what our endgame is? Do we lift sanctions anytime soon? Even if Russia withdraws I can't see us allowing them back whilst Putin is in charge because he'll do this again. Are we stuck in this position until Putin is kicked out and how long can this unity survive before some Government gets tempted by cheap oil? Especially when this huge public support dims and the domestic political costs of dealing with Russia reduce?
Was listening to this being discussed earlier, apparently it takes 2 police or security personnel per 1000 people in a settled society to maintain order and it takes 20 per 1000 in disordered/ civil war type society, that's an awful lot of troops, over 2 million of the top of my head but they seemed to think 800 000 minimum would be needed. They didn't think the Russians would be up to the task as although there is a lot of them their training is poor and their moral low, when asked what they thought would happen once Ukraine falls they said kill lists had already been prepared, people would disappear, torture would become widespread as the insurgency grew and if it got out of hand mass deportation would be employed to subdue troublesome regions.

1andrew1 04-03-2022 00:14
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36115438)
You really have no clue do you. :rolleyes:
Some may not agree with Hugh's angle on everything. And unlike Russia, we can have such open debates. But it's hard not to disagree with the bleedin' obvious.

Blackshep 04-03-2022 00:28
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Poland has already sent some mig 29's and they have updated their aircraft more then many other eastern European nations. Ukraine hasn't gone to plan at all I don't accept even Putin believes that and after Ukraine the chances of further Russian military action against other states is reduced. Russia is using a very large amount of munitions more then it thought would be needed as base's far removed and who were not involved in the invasion are having to reduce their stock's to replenish the invasion.

As in Syria we have seen that Russia has very few precision guided munition's which is a serious deficiency in term's of military action against the west which despite some rhetoric isn't on the practical table anymore.

Mick 04-03-2022 01:19
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
BREAKING: Russian military is "firing from all sides" and fire has broken out at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, Europe's largest, Ukraine's top diplomat said.

Meltdown at Zaporizhzhia would be "10 times larger" than 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster, Dmytro Kuleba tweeted.

---------- Post added at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------

UPDATE: Nuclear Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz tells Ukrainian TV that the reactor on fire is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside.

TheDaddy 04-03-2022 01:57
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36115514)
BREAKING: Russian military is "firing from all sides" and fire has broken out at Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, Europe's largest, Ukraine's top diplomat said.

Meltdown at Zaporizhzhia would be "10 times larger" than 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster, Dmytro Kuleba tweeted.

---------- Post added at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------

UPDATE: Nuclear Plant spokesman Andriy Tuz tells Ukrainian TV that the reactor on fire is under renovation and not operating, but there is nuclear fuel inside.
My first thought when I saw this was they were trying to cut the power rather than blow it up and that's been confirmed on the radio, so it's better than them trying to cause a meltdown at least, still criminally reckless and grossly irresponsible though and unlike chernobyl the reactors are contained so they should not blow up like in 1986. The Russians took control of the hydro electric dam up the road earlier today to incidentally

Mick 04-03-2022 02:14
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
U.S President Joe Biden, speaks with Ukraine President Zelenskyy, just now following nuclear plant fire according to senior U.S official. - AFP News Agency

Mick 04-03-2022 02:35
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
BREAKING: U.S President Joe Biden urged Russia to cease its hostilities and allow Ukrainian Firefighters to extinguish nuclear plant fire.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646361245

Mick 04-03-2022 02:55
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
NEW: Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant fire has not impacted “essential” equipment: Ukrainian authorities tell IAEA

Employees at Europe’s largest nuclear power plant taking “mitigatory actions.” - Jack Detsch @ Foreign Policy.

---------- Post added at 02:55 ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 ----------

Republican U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham just called for President Putin's assassination, live on FoxNews, following attack at Europe’s largest nuclear plant facility.

Mick 04-03-2022 03:01
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
Ukraine President Zelenskyy spoken with Prime Minister, Boris Johnson on events at the nuclear plant:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646362813

jonbxx 04-03-2022 09:12
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
With that attack on the power station, Russia are playing fast and loose with the Geneva Convention (Protocol I, 1977, article 56) Not that they will necessarily be too worried about that but useful to note at any trials down the line...

Hugh 04-03-2022 10:39
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Dominic Raab: We’ll house Ukrainian refugees in oligarch mansions

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4...2718ba34b74b57

Quote:
The government could seize oligarchs’ mansions in London and use them to house Ukrainian refugees, the deputy prime minister has said.

Dominic Raab said he supported the idea of seizing Russian property and repurposing it to house those fleeing conflict.

He also said the government would introduce legislation to stop “lawfare”, where kleptocrats use the courts to try to stop journalists reporting on how they obtained their wealth. Raab said that the government would bring forward proposals “very shortly” to stop oligarchs hiring expensive law firms to protect their fortunes.

“We have seen oligarchs and kleptocrats and those with links to Putin coming into this country and suing under our libel laws those who are shining a light, whether it is authors or NGOs, on corruption and abuse,” he told BBC Breakfast.

“That is an abuse of our system and I’m going to be putting forward proposals to deal with that and to prevent that. It cannot be right that kleptocrats and those with links to Putin can silence those shining a light on those excesses and use our courts to do so.”

Carth 04-03-2022 11:16
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36115519)
Republican U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham just called for President Putin's assassination, live on FoxNews, following attack at Europe’s largest nuclear plant facility.
Another example of tact and diplomacy from the USA.

I mean surely Putin (the enraged bear being backed into a corner) isn't going to react by taking that as an aggressive act by a foreign power is he. . is he?

Mick 04-03-2022 12:13
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
1 Attachment(s)
Latest UK Intel:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646395955

Mick 04-03-2022 12:21
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Lithuanian PM: 'Calls for NATO no-fly zone in Ukraine are irresponsible.'

"I believe that all encouragements for NATO to get involved into the military conflict now are irresponsible," Ingrida Simonyte told a news conference in Vilnius, according to Reuters. - Kyiv Independent.

1andrew1 04-03-2022 13:08
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36115542)
Another example of tact and diplomacy from the USA.

I mean surely Putin (the enraged bear being backed into a corner) isn't going to react by taking that as an aggressive act by a foreign power is he. . is he?
I'm not sure Putin is being backed into a corner. He's currently expanding his Empire into Ukraine.

Carth 04-03-2022 13:10
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115566)
I'm not sure Putin is being backed into a corner. He's currently expanding his Empire into Ukraine.
For a supposedly politically astute chap you're doing well . . . keep it up

pip08456 04-03-2022 13:51
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36115516)
My first thought when I saw this was they were trying to cut the power rather than blow it up and that's been confirmed on the radio, so it's better than them trying to cause a meltdown at least, still criminally reckless and grossly irresponsible though and unlike chernobyl the reactors are contained so they should not blow up like in 1986. The Russians took control of the hydro electric dam up the road earlier today to incidentally
I don't think you've thought this through. If the power's cut the cooling circulation pumps stop working so there is the possibility of a core meltdown. Different to Chernobyl, yes as it is a different reacor design.

TheDaddy 04-03-2022 14:06
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36115576)
I don't think you've thought this through. If the power's cut the cooling circulation pumps stop working so there is the possibility of a core meltdown. Different to Chernobyl, yes as it is a different reacor design.
Cut the power to the country rather than the site, it provides 25% of Ukraines power

Mick 04-03-2022 14:07
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Ukraine's military is waging an effective and “mobile” defense by using knowledge of the terrain to halt Russian advances: top U.S. military officer Gen. Mark Milley to traveling press.

Gen. Mark Milley told reporters that Ukraine had frustrated Russian invaders by using mobile weapons systems to fend off attacks. - Jack Detsch, Foreign Policy.

Pierre 04-03-2022 14:29
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36115549)
Lithuanian PM: 'Calls for NATO no-fly zone in Ukraine are irresponsible.'

"I believe that all encouragements for NATO to get involved into the military conflict now are irresponsible," Ingrida Simonyte told a news conference in Vilnius, according to Reuters. - Kyiv Independent.
she'd be correct.

RichardCoulter 04-03-2022 15:13
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
BBC 1pm News says that Russia is to restrict access to the BBC website, presumably to prevent ordinary Russian people accessing the truth. I'm surprised it's taken them this long tbh.

It's been said that older Russians tend to get their news from state controlled TV, but that younger citizens obtain their news from the internet.

Won't they simply use a VPN? Perhaps all VPN sites are to be blocked too (if possibl)? Is it possible for a Government to mass identify people using a VPN? If so, they will be putting themselves in danger.

I once read a newspaper tech advice article where someone was going on holiday to a country where facebook was banned They asked if using a VPN whilst there would allow them to access facebook and the sensible answer was that this wasn't worth the risk for a fortnight, so there must be a way for them to find out if any Russian people go down this route to access BBC news.

Jaymoss 04-03-2022 15:17
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36115592)
BBC 1pm News says that Russia is to restrict access to the BBC website, presumably to prevent ordinary Russian people accessing the truth.

It's been said that older Russians tend to get their news from state controlled TV, but that younger citizens obtain their news from the internet.

Won't they simply use a VPN? Perhaps all VPN sites are to be blocked too?? Is it possible for a Government to mass identify people using a VPN? If so, they will be putting themselves in danger.

I once read a newspaper tech advice article where someone was going on holiday to a country where facebook was banned They asked if using a VPN whilst there would allow them to access facebook and the sensible answer was that this wasn't worth the risk for a fortnight, so there must be a way for them to find out if any Russian people go down this route to access BBC news.
Truth and the BBC is a bit of a stretch at the best of times though

ianch99 04-03-2022 16:40
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Interesting article on why the UK is dragging its heals on Russia sanctions when compared to the EU & US:

Why does UK seem so slow at acting against Putin’s oligarchs?

RichardCoulter 04-03-2022 17:05
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36115593)
Truth and the BBC is a bit of a stretch at the best of times though
I know that some people feel this way, but I know who i'd trust more out of the two.

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36115609)
Interesting article on why the UK is dragging its heals on Russia sanctions when compared to the EU & US:

Why does UK seem so slow at acting against Putin’s oligarchs?
I've been reading up about such allegations that accuse the current Government of being bought by the Russians.

As Partygate has (understandably) been pushed to the back burner in the current circumstances, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Surely they must have known that they'd want something in return at some point?

ianch99 04-03-2022 17:12
Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36115613)
I know that some people feel this way, but I know who i'd trust more out of the two.

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------



I've been reading up about such allegations that accuse the current Government of being bought by the Russians.

As Partygate has (understandably) been pushed to the back burner in the current circumstances, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Surely they must have known that they'd want something in return at some point?
I think, quite rightly, a discussion on the degree of influence of the Russian money given to the Conservative Party, the fast tracking of oligarchs into our government and the dark money behind the past election campaigns needs to wait until a later date.

I will say, however, that the Conservative Party will have a lot of explaining to do to the country when this does become a primary subject of discussion, which it will.


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